21:51:34 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:51:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-html-a11y-irc
21:51:36 RRSAgent, make logs world
21:51:36 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:51:38 Zakim, this will be 2119
21:51:38 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
21:51:39 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:51:39 Date: 19 May 2010
21:52:02 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0137.html
21:52:44 chair: John_Foliot
21:52:58 meeting: Media sub-group - HTML A11Y TF
21:54:03 scribeOptions: -final
21:54:55 MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
21:55:24 JF has joined #html-a11y
21:57:51 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM has now started
21:57:58 +John_Foliot
21:58:15 == Agenda ==
21:58:16
21:58:18 1. Action Review
21:58:19 www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/products/2
21:58:21
21:58:23
21:58:25 2. Requirements Gathering (Review); determine critical must haves for short term / identify longer term requirements
21:58:27
21:58:28 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media
21:58:30
21:58:31
21:58:33 3. Mapping requirements against existing proposals
21:58:34
21:58:36
21:58:38 4. Other business?
21:58:46 +allanj
21:59:12 +Michael_Cooper
21:59:13 AllanJ has joined #html-a11y
21:59:26 janina has joined #html-a11y
21:59:41 +Judy
21:59:52 zakim, call janina
21:59:52 ok, janina; the call is being made
21:59:54 +Janina
22:00:09 zakim, drop janina
22:00:09 Janina is being disconnected
22:00:10 -Janina
22:00:39 +Janina_Sajka
22:00:40 scribe: allanj
22:00:59 plh has joined #html-a11y
22:01:10 zakim, who is on the phone?
22:01:10 On the phone I see John_Foliot, allanj, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka
22:01:18 +??P5
22:01:23 +Plh
22:01:48 zakim, drop plh
22:01:48 Plh is being disconnected
22:01:49 -Plh
22:01:57 +Plh
22:02:00 zakim, ??P5 is Sean_Hayes
22:02:00 +Sean_Hayes; got it
22:02:06 Zakim, call Mike
22:02:06 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
22:02:07 +Mike
22:02:16 Sean has joined #html-a11y
22:02:19 +Eric_Carlson
22:04:29 zakim, angenda?
22:04:29 I don't understand your question, AllanJ.
22:04:37 zakim, agenda?
22:04:37 I see nothing on the agenda
22:04:55 Topic: Action Items
22:04:56 close action-30
22:04:56 ACTION-30 Look into structural navigation requirements closed
22:05:04 wiki update
22:05:49 +Silvia
22:06:03 zakim, mute me
22:06:03 Silvia should now be muted
22:06:33 All Judy's action items in progress, waiting on replies
22:06:48 action-32 due 26 May
22:06:48 ACTION-32 Follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness of secondary signed channel requirements due date now 26 May
22:06:53 action-42 due 26 May
22:06:53 ACTION-42 Organize a cross-check on requirements with JTC-1 user needs repository due date now 26 May
22:06:56 mkobayas has joined #html-a11y
22:06:57 action-43 due 26 May
22:06:57 ACTION-43 Seek deaf-blind representation in requirements gathering process due date now 26 May
22:08:00 JF and JB also checking on other deaf users for input
22:08:32 action-34?
22:08:32 ACTION-34 -- Sean Hayes to write transcript requirements -- due 2010-05-19 -- OPEN
22:08:32 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/34
22:09:16 + +61.3.986.4.aaaa - is perhaps Kenny_Johar
22:09:23 close action-34
22:09:23 ACTION-34 Write transcript requirements closed
22:09:29 zakim, Kenny is Kenny_Johar
22:09:29 +Kenny_Johar; got it
22:12:36 JF: GFreed will be a bit late, review his action when he arrives
22:13:00 ... otherwise defer to next week.
22:13:18 Topic: Requirements Review
22:14:21 JB: are we close to a survey, or still to rough
22:14:54 JF: thinks need a first walk through.
22:15:19 ... email has been sent to full task force, but little response
22:15:58 JS: most who care are already engaged
22:17:04 JB: perhaps take 15 min on a full task force call to gauge reaction
22:17:13 JS: +1
22:18:09 frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
22:18:19 +[Microsoft]
22:18:21 JF: discoverablity is critical. is there that much question about this. do we need to bring it to the whole task force
22:18:56 zakim, Microsoft is Frank_Olivier
22:18:56 +Frank_Olivier; got it
22:19:19 scribe: janina
22:19:39 ja: the ability to find out what's there, and make selections.
22:19:47 Eric: need explanation for implementation
22:20:05 judy: some of these may need more explanation in terms of impact on users
22:20:15 eric: exactly!
22:20:28 eric: that would be majorly helpful in the wider html-wg
22:20:44 scribe: allanj
22:22:03 +q
22:22:11 -Eric_Carlson
22:22:23 zakim, unmute me
22:22:23 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:22:29 JF: need examples. there needs to be a button in the UI to notify the user that captions are available
22:22:30 +Eric_Carlson
22:22:37 gfreed has joined #html-a11y
22:23:11 sylvia: from user point of view, the requirements are obvious for accessibility folks.
22:23:18 +Geoff_Freed
22:23:52 ... for engineers, need a different set of language, so they know what we want. need example for how they can be realized.
22:24:21 ... discoverability: a button to expose a list of caption language files available to the user
22:24:29 q?
22:24:33 ack sy
22:24:38 ack sy
22:24:41 -Eric_Carlson
22:24:44 ack si
22:24:58 zakim, mute me
22:24:58 Silvia should now be muted
22:25:08 +Eric_Carlson
22:25:31 JB: the narrative description is getting longer. the bullets don't seem to be as comprehensive.
22:26:06 ... section heading seem confusing. references 'requirements' heading and narrative that follows
22:26:33 JB: there may be a continuum for what the user needs vs what engineers need
22:27:29 ... keep requirements to user needs and basic technical functions. and leave the examples to later
22:28:10 js: confusion results from ad hoc creation from multiple authors
22:28:36 ... take note that engineers need more explanation because they are not accessibility folks.
22:28:57 need to do it now
22:29:21 -Plh
22:29:23 JF: good point from sylvia and eric, need more explanation
22:29:23 -Kenny_Johar.a
22:29:41 +q
22:29:52 JF: how much detail to engineers want, images, text etc.
22:30:34 eric: depends on reqirement. discoverability - a sentance or two, similar to what sylvia said is sufficient.
22:30:50 ... need something to help then understand
22:31:32 zakim, unmute me
22:31:32 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:31:42 jb: graphics would be tough and time consuming
22:32:07 sylvia: structure of wiki doc is inaccessible cognitively
22:32:26 ... want numbered statements with examples
22:33:20 ... it is really free form. needs more structure. going to walk trhough and extra requirements and view it from engineers perspective
22:33:47 ... this would show the need for examples
22:34:00 Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:34:00 ... needs to be more concrete.
22:35:30 jb: regard to sylvia. review of requirements documents - there are a few that have terse useful formats
22:35:59 ... rather than starting another page, perhaps restructure the current document
22:36:34 ... convert one section, or add a restructure section
22:36:54 ... current doc seems upside down. narrative on top followed by list
22:37:25 sylvia: didn't want to overload the document. need numbers and a bit more meat.
22:37:49 ... will write email to restructure current doc and send to list
22:38:02 jf: trying to do 2 things
22:38:16 ... educational document, to understand the need in narrative
22:38:34 ... engineering doc pick list of requirements
22:38:53 ... tension/conflict between the purposes.
22:38:54 zakim, mute me
22:38:54 Silvia should now be muted
22:39:14 jf: perhaps reverse the document list then narrative
22:39:45 jb: have had this discussion before. more concerned about the heading labels.
22:40:23 ... other requirements documents have narrative and lists. not a problem. need both. need a structure to help it 'sing'
22:40:25 q+ to say the intention was originally to do exactly what Silivia is proposing
22:40:51 ack silvia
22:41:01 zakim, mute me
22:41:01 Silvia should now be muted
22:41:20 jf: discussion of word smithing options.
22:41:27 Zakim, mute me
22:41:27 sorry, MikeSmith, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
22:41:33 Zakim, mute Mike
22:41:33 Mike should now be muted
22:41:39 Zakim, Mike is me
22:41:39 +MikeSmith; got it
22:42:14 jb: first section should be called 'use cases' and requirement should be above the list at the bottom
22:43:00 gf: added the narrative. opening could be edited down. leave prose at beginning with list at the end. need the context
22:43:50 jf: change headings, then add bullets.
22:44:23 sh: make prose one document and numbered requirements in a separate doc
22:44:31 jb: want one document
22:44:47 js: that is cross referenced.
22:45:16 sh: wants a nice list, not interspersed with prose
22:45:19 q+ just wants to say that I like the narrative at the top to set the context and general understanding
22:45:27 ack me
22:45:27 Sean, you wanted to say the intention was originally to do exactly what Silivia is proposing
22:45:58 zakim, unmute me
22:45:58 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:46:15 jb: sylvia said she would restructure the requirements
22:46:30 js: are we done with gathering
22:47:08 jb: not yet, we are awaiting LD and deafblind and dyslexic feed back
22:47:31 sh: need to add in some cognitive stuff
22:47:38 ... there is more to come.
22:47:53 ... should move on the numbered list creation
22:48:33 sylvia: its a wiki, so can be a live document. need numbered requirements
22:49:01 zakim, mute me
22:49:01 Silvia should now be muted
22:49:06 action: sylvia to structure requirements into a numbered system
22:49:06 Sorry, couldn't find user - sylvia
22:49:16 q+
22:49:29 action: silvia to structure requirements into a numbered system
22:49:29 Created ACTION-45 - Structure requirements into a numbered system [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2010-05-26].
22:49:49 zakim, unmute me
22:49:49 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:50:28 s/sylvia/silvia
22:50:58 silvia: will post sample to the list
22:51:07 zakim, mute me
22:51:07 Silvia should now be muted
22:51:36 jf: should we go through all requirements, or wait for restructure
22:51:41 jb: wait
22:52:23 jf: need to map requirements to prose
22:52:54 js: pleased with document. BUT, it is living in the wrong place.
22:53:14 ... it should live in the task force wiki, not the html wiki
22:53:25 zakim, unmute me
22:53:25 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:54:07 -Eric_Carlson
22:54:10 jf: tend to agree. finding content is hard. having it all in 1 wiki makes logical sense. moving it would be easy
22:54:30 silvia: could do this as part of action
22:54:51 jf: great, put a link in old page to new home.
22:55:09 TF wiki: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Main_Page
22:55:18 +Eric_Carlson
22:55:44 jb: task force has a wiki. concerned that the WBS survey may have difficulty linking to dynamic doc
22:55:47 zakim, mute me
22:55:47 Silvia should now be muted
22:56:03 mc: will create a staic snap shot for each survey
22:56:13 s/staic/static
22:57:19 ... will make it work (admin details)
22:57:35 Topic: other business
22:58:40 jf: question - google announcement of WEBM media wrapper. must be vp8 video, theora for audio. is it possible to add captions
22:59:04 eric: should be possible. would be a good question for html working list
22:59:11 zakim, unmute me
22:59:11 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:59:14 jf: will post question
23:00:08 gf: +1 to jf. project page explicitly states video and audio tracks, what about other tracks or multiple tracks
23:00:26 -MikeSmith
23:00:45 silvia: SRT works in ?vetroska?, other tracks should be possible
23:00:58 matroska
23:01:09 eric: they are specifically using a subset.
23:01:12 zakim, mute me
23:01:12 Silvia should now be muted
23:01:28 s/?vetroska?/matroska
23:01:57 js: gf close action item?
23:02:37 js: eric please give a list of what needs expansion - engineering examples
23:02:51 eric: will be done by next weeks call
23:03:15 jf: action-41 on gf
23:04:02 close action-41
23:04:02 ACTION-41 Review use cases section of media requirements document closed
23:04:53 zakim, who is on the phone?
23:04:53 On the phone I see John_Foliot, allanj, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Sean_Hayes, Silvia (muted), Frank_Olivier, Geoff_Freed, Eric_Carlson
23:06:08 -Eric_Carlson
23:06:10 -Geoff_Freed
23:06:12