IRC log of dap on 2010-05-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:39:57 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dap

12:39:57 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-dap-irc

12:39:59 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

12:39:59 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #dap

12:40:01 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be DAP

12:40:02 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

12:40:02 [trackbot]

Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference

12:40:02 [trackbot]

Date: 12 May 2010

12:40:08 [fjh]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0044.html

12:40:41 [fjh]

Regrets+ Claes_Nilsson, Jun_Liao, Marco_Marengo

12:40:45 [fjh]

Chair: Frederick_Hirsch

12:40:55 [fjh]

Present+ Frederick_Hirsch

13:34:51 [fjh]

Regrets+ Robin_Berjon, Dom

13:42:16 [fjh]

Topic: Administrative

13:57:16 [alissa]

alissa has joined #dap

13:58:18 [LauraA]

LauraA has joined #dap

13:58:31 [LauraA]

present+ LauraA

13:59:01 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

13:59:01 [Zakim]

sorry, fjh, I don't know what conference this is

13:59:02 [Zakim]

On IRC I see LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot

13:59:09 [fjh]

zakim, this will be DAP

13:59:09 [Zakim]

ok, fjh, I see UW_DAP()10:00AM already started

13:59:15 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

13:59:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P0

13:59:16 [Zakim]

On IRC I see LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot

13:59:21 [fjh]

zakim, ??P0 is me

13:59:21 [Zakim]

+fjh; got it

13:59:23 [tlr]

zakim, call thomas-781

13:59:23 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; the call is being made

13:59:24 [Zakim]

+Thomas

13:59:26 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

13:59:26 [Zakim]

On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted)

13:59:27 [jmorris]

jmorris has joined #dap

13:59:32 [Zakim]

On IRC I see jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot

13:59:34 [tlr]

Present+ Thomas_Roessler

13:59:37 [ericanewland]

ericanewland has joined #dap

13:59:41 [Zakim]

+ +1.202.436.aaaa

13:59:44 [tlr]

zakim, I am thomas

13:59:44 [Zakim]

ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas

13:59:46 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

13:59:46 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

13:59:49 [Zakim]

+ +0777541aabb

13:59:52 [alissa]

Present+ Alissa_Cooper

14:00:06 [ilkka]

Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen

14:00:09 [Zakim]

+ +358.504.86aacc

14:00:14 [Zakim]

+ +1.301.581.aadd

14:00:18 [ericanewland]

present+ enewland

14:00:24 [jmorris]

Present+ John_Morris

14:00:28 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

14:00:28 [Zakim]

On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), +1.202.436.aaaa, +0777541aabb, +358.504.86aacc, +1.301.581.aadd

14:00:29 [AnssiK]

AnssiK has joined #dap

14:00:30 [Zakim]

On IRC I see ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot

14:00:30 [LauraA]

zakim, +0777541aabb is LauraA

14:00:30 [Zakim]

+LauraA; got it

14:00:35 [Zakim]

+ +1.202.637.aaee

14:00:38 [jmorris]

zakim, aadd is jmorris

14:00:38 [Zakim]

+jmorris; got it

14:00:43 [ilkka]

Zakim, aacc is ilkka

14:00:43 [Zakim]

+ilkka; got it

14:00:45 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

14:00:45 [Zakim]

On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), +1.202.436.aaaa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, +1.202.637.aaee

14:00:48 [Zakim]

On IRC I see AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot

14:00:55 [ericanewland]

zakim, .aaee is enewland

14:00:55 [Zakim]

sorry, ericanewland, I do not recognize a party named '.aaee'

14:01:15 [Zakim]

+ +035850486aaff

14:01:16 [AnssiK]

Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen

14:01:18 [jmorris]

zakim, aaee is enewland

14:01:18 [Zakim]

+enewland; got it

14:01:19 [alissa]

zakim, +1.202.436.aaa is alissa

14:01:19 [Zakim]

+alissa; got it

14:01:23 [AnssiK]

zakim, aaff is AnssiK

14:01:23 [Zakim]

+AnssiK; got it

14:01:27 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

14:01:27 [Zakim]

On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK

14:01:29 [Zakim]

On IRC I see AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot

14:01:36 [Dzung_Tran]

Dzung_Tran has joined #dap

14:01:41 [Dzung_Tran]

Present+ Dzung_Tran

14:02:06 [paddy]

paddy has joined #dap

14:02:08 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

14:02:08 [Zakim]

On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK

14:02:11 [Zakim]

On IRC I see paddy, Dzung_Tran, AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot

14:02:40 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

14:02:40 [Zakim]

On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK

14:02:42 [Zakim]

On IRC I see paddy, Dzung_Tran, AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot

14:03:00 [jmorris]

scribenick jmorris

14:03:03 [fjh]

ScribeNick: jmorris

14:03:11 [ericanewland]

zakim, ericanewland is enewland

14:03:11 [Zakim]

sorry, ericanewland, I do not recognize a party named 'ericanewland'

14:03:11 [fjh]

s/scribenick jmorris//

14:03:17 [Zakim]

+Ingmar_Kliche

14:03:31 [Zakim]

+??P16

14:03:34 [Zakim]

-??P16

14:03:36 [ingmar]

Present+ Ingmar_Kliche

14:04:08 [jmorris]

fjh: agenda review

14:04:09 [Zakim]

+??P16

14:04:28 [paddy]

present+ Paddy_Byers

14:04:41 [fjh]

zakim, ??P16 is paddy

14:04:41 [Zakim]

+paddy; got it

14:05:27 [shlee]

shlee has joined #dap

14:05:35 [fjh]

Topic: Minutes Approval

14:05:39 [fjh]

5 May 2010

14:05:44 [shlee]

Present+ Soonho_Lee

14:05:50 [fjh]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/att-0014/minutes-2010-05-05.html

14:06:21 [jmorris]

RESOLUTION: 5 May 2010 Minutes approved

14:06:31 [jmorris]

TOPIC: Policy framework

14:06:39 [fjh]

http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/

14:06:46 [bryan_sullivan]

bryan_sullivan has joined #dap

14:07:03 [jmorris]

fjh: we have general agreement on trust domains being done explicitly

14:07:33 [jmorris]

... asking paddy on agreement with this

14:07:55 [jmorris]

paddy: yes

14:08:01 [bryan_sullivan]

Present+ Bryan_Sullivan

14:08:15 [jmorris]

... target in nokia model is the trust domain

14:08:28 [jmorris]

... we separate out trust domain from rest of document

14:08:52 [jmorris]

... some cases we have to work through

14:09:07 [Zakim]

+Bryan_Sullivan

14:09:20 [LauraA]

q+

14:09:30 [jmorris]

fjh: lots of benefit about being explicit about trust domains

14:09:55 [jmorris]

... being explicit will enable simplification

14:10:08 [jmorris]

... like to suggest formal resolution

14:10:16 [tlr]

q?

14:10:30 [fjh]

ack laura

14:10:35 [fjh]

ack LauraA

14:10:40 [bryan_sullivan]

q+

14:11:04 [richt]

richt has joined #dap

14:11:32 [Zakim]

+ +0797352aagg

14:11:34 [jmorris]

fjh: proposing resolution: We will use explicit trust domains in the policy framework

14:12:06 [jmorris]

paddy: responding to question from Laura

14:12:43 [richt]

Present+ Richard_Tibbett

14:12:44 [jmorris]

... for useful cases, one can mechanically convert one expression from another

14:12:50 [fjh]

s/responding to question from Laura/notes that XACML policy epxressions can be refactored

14:12:58 [fjh]

s/epxressions/expressions/

14:13:10 [jmorris]

LauraA: we would name a policy set for a trust domain and within domain

14:13:20 [jmorris]

... we can have individual policies?

14:13:42 [jmorris]

paddy: to be able to express the same things ...

14:13:55 [jmorris]

... in BONDI you can have multiple targets

14:14:13 [jmorris]

... you must be able to define the same thing in different trust domains

14:14:31 [jmorris]

... all of the things you can do with a BONDI policy, you must also be able to do for a trust domain

14:14:51 [jmorris]

... principle of separating def. of target and def. of rules is possible

14:15:15 [jmorris]

... when you write trust domains, you have to have the same functionality as with BONDI

14:15:30 [jmorris]

fjh: this may be an 80/20 situation, where you do not meet this

14:15:40 [jmorris]

... good to identify the 20 percent

14:15:55 [jmorris]

paddy: Agree we should look at use cases

14:16:10 [fjh]

ack bryan

14:16:23 [jmorris]

bryan: clarification on wording

14:16:39 [jmorris]

... don't you mean the ability to define explicit trust domains

14:16:53 [jmorris]

fjh: there must be a trust domain

14:17:21 [jmorris]

bryan: might the absence of an explicit domain imply an implicit trust default domain

14:17:28 [jmorris]

fjh: we might be able to accommodate this

14:17:41 [jmorris]

... we might be able to pre-define some trust domains

14:17:57 [jmorris]

... if you don't know what trust domain, then "untrusted"

14:18:33 [jmorris]

bryan: we are not defining trust domains themselves

14:18:45 [jmorris]

... we are defining ability to define t.d.s

14:19:06 [jmorris]

... not talking about "home" "work"

14:19:17 [jmorris]

... we are not just trying to define a set

14:19:23 [bryan_sullivan]

q-

14:20:05 [jmorris]

paddy: goal is to separate target from rules

14:20:17 [fjh]

proposed RESOLUTION: make trust domain model an explicit and separate part of policy framework

14:20:25 [jmorris]

... we also may identify some well known trust domains

14:21:08 [jmorris]

RESOLUTION: WG will make trust domain model an explicit and separate part of policy framework

14:21:43 [jmorris]

fjh: referring to earlier comment by LauraA

14:21:59 [jmorris]

... suggest we take schema material in separate document

14:22:02 [LauraA]

q+

14:22:10 [fjh]

ack LauraA

14:22:17 [bryan_sullivan]

+1

14:22:49 [jmorris]

LauraA: some of sections suggested to go under framework already have features of profiling

14:22:52 [fjh]

suggest separation, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0052.html

14:23:05 [jmorris]

... not 100% clean separation between those two schemes

14:23:28 [jmorris]

... 3.3 to 3.5 for example are already part of naming of GML? language

14:24:04 [jmorris]

fjh: there is some overlap but want to take a pass on separating model

14:24:26 [jmorris]

paddy: the source of the bondi document had the model in two separate parts

14:24:48 [jmorris]

... there is a dictionary that is shared

14:25:03 [jmorris]

fjh: can you do more editorial work?

14:25:26 [jmorris]

LauraA: okay but good if someone can help

14:26:07 [jmorris]

possible ACTION: LauraA to work on framework document to inject more separation

14:26:34 [jmorris]

LauraA: your e-mail to simplify flows

14:26:58 [jmorris]

... is fjh's suggestion to take nokia's flows and simplify

14:27:15 [jmorris]

fjh: where can we simply if possible

14:27:29 [jmorris]

... we have a model with lots of features, but can we simplify

14:27:47 [jmorris]

... we will get more adoption if simpler

14:28:08 [jmorris]

... if you nokia one

14:28:24 [jmorris]

send message to list for seek on help on particular sections

14:29:08 [bryan_sullivan]

if Laura needs help on a specific section or subject I can take the request by email and will provide some text

14:29:09 [jmorris]

... may have existing action

14:29:25 [fjh]

ACTION-152?

14:29:25 [trackbot]

ACTION-152 -- Laura Arribas to edit policy framework, reviewing BONDI material and editorial update -- due 2010-05-05 -- OPEN

14:29:25 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/152

14:29:29 [jmorris]

LauraA: I can keep working on ACTION-152

14:29:48 [jmorris]

fjh: we can work on the list on this

14:29:57 [fjh]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0038.html

14:30:04 [jmorris]

... claus also had a message

14:30:11 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

14:30:11 [Zakim]

On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK, Ingmar_Kliche, paddy, Bryan_Sullivan, richt

14:30:13 [Zakim]

On IRC I see richt, bryan_sullivan, shlee, paddy, Dzung_Tran, AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu,

14:30:15 [Zakim]

... dom, trackbot

14:30:16 [jmorris]

... he is saying that there is work to be done

14:30:43 [jmorris]

paddy: my take on that is that we need to be sure to have the right set of attributes to define the widget or whateve

14:30:46 [fjh]

ACTION-45?

14:30:46 [trackbot]

ACTION-45 -- David Rogers to provide use case with threat model scenarios -- due 2010-03-16 -- OPEN

14:30:46 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/45

14:30:48 [jmorris]

s/eve/ever/

14:30:55 [fjh]

ACTION-104?

14:30:55 [trackbot]

ACTION-104 -- David Rogers to add use case related to ISSUE-37 -- due 2010-03-17 -- OPEN

14:30:55 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/104

14:31:00 [fjh]

ACTION-145?

14:31:00 [trackbot]

ACTION-145 -- Bryan Sullivan to provide an architectural flow for Policy Reqs -- due 2010-03-25 -- OPEN

14:31:00 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/145

14:31:07 [jmorris]

fjh: looking at actions

14:31:44 [jmorris]

TOPIC: Policy requirements

14:31:49 [fjh]

ACTION-166?

14:31:49 [trackbot]

ACTION-166 -- Frederick Hirsch to review policy requirements and propose changes -- due 2010-05-05 -- OPEN

14:31:49 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/166

14:31:53 [jmorris]

fjh: I will look at them this week

14:31:57 [fjh]

ACTION-167?

14:31:57 [trackbot]

ACTION-167 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to make a concrete proposal for policy framework based on his comments http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0030.html -- due 2010-05-19 -- OPEN

14:31:57 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/167

14:32:19 [jmorris]

TOPIC: Privacy

14:32:38 [jmorris]

fjh: I noticed paper re P3P trying to come up with labels

14:32:57 [jmorris]

alissa: it is cited in ruleset document

14:33:07 [tlr]

pointer?

14:33:11 [jmorris]

fjh: nothing more on privacy right now?

14:33:35 [jmorris]

alissa: still waiting for ruleset attributes are mutually exclusive

14:33:44 [jmorris]

... robin has this question

14:33:58 [alissa]

http://cups.cs.cmu.edu/soups/2009/proceedings/a4-kelley.pdf

14:34:03 [jmorris]

... conversation on list re mutual exclusivity

14:34:09 [jmorris]

... waiting for response

14:34:18 [jmorris]

TOPIC: Sysinfo

14:34:31 [fjh]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0015.html

14:34:43 [jmorris]

fjh: next week we will decide on call whether to go to last call

14:34:51 [fjh]

zakim, who is here?

14:34:51 [Zakim]

On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK, Ingmar_Kliche, paddy, Bryan_Sullivan, richt

14:34:53 [Zakim]

On IRC I see richt, bryan_sullivan, shlee, paddy, Dzung_Tran, AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu,

14:34:55 [Zakim]

... dom, trackbot

14:35:06 [jmorris]

... bunch of issues

14:35:15 [jmorris]

... mohammed had comments, max dealt with them

14:35:21 [jmorris]

... jonas had comment

14:35:45 [fjh]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0029.html

14:35:46 [jmorris]

... naming issue got resolved

14:36:03 [jmorris]

... we need to be sure we are ready for last call

14:36:06 [fjh]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0026.html

14:36:21 [jmorris]

... maxf resolved timeless issues

14:36:28 [fjh]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0017.html

14:36:41 [jmorris]

... one issue to discuss: jonas how data is to be used

14:36:54 [jmorris]

... we need to respond ... this is open

14:36:58 [fjh]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0039.html

14:37:11 [jmorris]

... second open issue is what is motivation to having some much data

14:37:33 [jmorris]

... this is a minimization things, we are trying to deal with this

14:37:46 [jmorris]

... we might want to fix the privacy stuff up some

14:37:49 [fjh]

ACTION-58?

14:37:49 [trackbot]

ACTION-58 -- Bryan Sullivan to make a concrete proposal with a vocabulary-based approach to system & events, with a few examples (e.g. battery level) -- due 2009-11-11 -- OPEN

14:37:49 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/58

14:38:10 [fjh]

ACTION-116?

14:38:10 [trackbot]

ACTION-116 -- Bryan Sullivan to provide input on DCO mapping for SysInfo -- due 2010-03-24 -- OPEN

14:38:10 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/116

14:38:10 [jmorris]

... we need to really get it ready

14:38:40 [fjh]

action-58: bryan notes sysinfo api facilitates this now

14:38:40 [trackbot]

ACTION-58 Make a concrete proposal with a vocabulary-based approach to system & events, with a few examples (e.g. battery level) notes added

14:38:47 [jmorris]

bryan: this has been addressed

14:38:48 [fjh]

action-58 closed

14:38:48 [trackbot]

ACTION-58 Make a concrete proposal with a vocabulary-based approach to system & events, with a few examples (e.g. battery level) closed

14:39:10 [jmorris]

fjh: looking at ACTION-116

14:39:17 [jmorris]

bryan: this is done

14:39:18 [alissa]

q+

14:39:20 [fjh]

action-116 closed

14:39:20 [trackbot]

ACTION-116 Provide input on DCO mapping for SysInfo closed

14:39:25 [fjh]

ack alissa

14:39:28 [jmorris]

... mapping on explicit options in API

14:39:53 [fjh]

action-162?

14:39:53 [trackbot]

ACTION-162 -- Robin Berjon to make SysInfo ready for pub -- due 2010-04-21 -- OPEN

14:39:53 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/162

14:39:54 [jmorris]

alissa: I proposed temporary language for all APIs re privacy framework

14:40:00 [fjh]

action-169?

14:40:00 [trackbot]

ACTION-169 -- Frederick Hirsch to insert temporary privacy language into the APIs. -- due 2010-05-05 -- OPEN

14:40:00 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/169

14:40:02 [jmorris]

... this might help jonas

14:40:30 [jmorris]

fjh: uncomfortable to blast away exisiting text

14:40:49 [jmorris]

... so it would good for individual editors to add this text

14:41:06 [jmorris]

s/exisit/exist/

14:41:22 [jmorris]

... richard, maybe can you work on this

14:41:35 [jmorris]

... alissa sent language to the list

14:42:08 [alissa]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0086.html

14:42:51 [jmorris]

fjh: real issue is making sure that maxf's conclusion on these threads is complete

14:42:56 [jmorris]

... we are close on last call

14:43:07 [jmorris]

... that is all on Sysinfo

14:43:13 [fjh]

action: fjh to confirm status of sysinfo comment handling with max, and add privacy text

14:43:14 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-172 - Confirm status of sysinfo comment handling with max, and add privacy text [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-05-19].

14:43:43 [jmorris]

fjh: other topics?? messaging?

14:44:03 [fjh]

Topic: contacts, calendar

14:44:10 [fjh]

on the list

14:44:13 [jmorris]

richt: I am still catching up and will go to list

14:44:29 [jmorris]

fjh: anything we should discuss now?

14:45:00 [jmorris]

someone: parameter passing discussion?

14:45:12 [jmorris]

fjh: do not want to decide without robin

14:45:23 [jmorris]

... might be better on list

14:45:46 [jmorris]

... wrapping up

14:45:57 [richt]

s/someone:/richt:

14:46:07 [jmorris]

... all editors - please look at privacy text

14:46:15 [Zakim]

-Thomas

14:46:16 [Zakim]

-alissa

14:46:18 [Zakim]

-enewland

14:46:18 [Zakim]

-AnssiK

14:46:20 [richt]

richt has left #dap

14:46:20 [Zakim]

-Bryan_Sullivan

14:46:22 [Zakim]

-ilkka

14:46:24 [Zakim]

-richt

14:46:27 [Zakim]

-LauraA

14:46:28 [Zakim]

-jmorris

14:46:29 [fjh]

rrsagent, generate minutes

14:46:29 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-dap-minutes.html fjh

14:46:37 [Zakim]

-fjh

14:46:41 [Zakim]

-paddy

14:46:48 [Zakim]

-Ingmar_Kliche

14:46:49 [Zakim]

UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended

14:46:50 [Zakim]

Attendees were fjh, Thomas, +1.202.436.aaaa, +358.504.86aacc, +1.301.581.aadd, LauraA, +1.202.637.aaee, jmorris, ilkka, +035850486aaff, enewland, alissa, AnssiK, Ingmar_Kliche,

14:46:53 [Zakim]

... paddy, Bryan_Sullivan, richt

16:54:22 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dap

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