See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 14 January 2010
<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
<janina> agenda: this
<oedipus> agenda archived at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0192.html
<MichaelC> scribe: Stevef
<oedipus> update on GJR actions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0172.html
janina: review action items
GJR: action item was to take the google spreadsheet and make it accessible, not my job
cyns: not a large doc, but needs to stay in table format
<oedipus> collaborative content should always meet a11y requirements
<oedipus> problem isn't just table, but color-coding
MC: you and steve are working on it more.
<oedipus> thank y'all VERY much (not sarcastic)
<oedipus> SF: need GJR's help
MC draft in 2 weeks
MC 28th on cyns
<oedipus> GJR: will help if can get document source and gloss on color-coding
MC: action on cyns: follow up with IE team on mapping logic
MC last action on me, have not domne it
<janina> test
<mattmay> MichaelC, you're disconnected.
janina: discussing prospect of
face2face, lost of work and a well organized face to face can
do that
... will be a web survey about attendance published soon
... at least 60 days +
<oedipus> SF: if in states, why not aim for CSUN 2010 (22-27 March 2010)
<oedipus> PC: also SXSW
<oedipus> SF: if come to CSUN, won't be able to travel to U.S. for subsequent meeting
<oedipus> JS: issue around CSUN is sponsorship in San Diego
stevef: think about holding around csun,
<oedipus> CS: have offices in california, too - might be host site in bay area
<oedipus> JF: could help in organizing bay area
cyns: microsoft has offices in bay area, also j foliot may be able to help in bay area
pallcotton: strongly agree need to make progress, general question, isn't scheduling a meeting in april sending a message that we won't be finsihed before april
janina: not sure we will be finsihed by April, still bugs being filed
paulcotton; accessibility issues will be longpole., so need to start setting the HTML wg expectations
janina: we can do that to an
extent, but still need to process incoming bugs
... 2-3 weeks away for being able to scope work to be done
paulcotton: need to communicate with html wg on progress
MC: need f2f to get a lot done, some issues cannot be addressed before last call, so need to prioritise pre/post last call
janina: schedule f2f to aim to get wide participation
<oedipus> mixed physical and virtual f2f?
kliehm: if official titmframe is 60, should grab any opportunity to meet informally
janina: could get a decision on meeting
MC: csun good time for meet as lost of accessibility specialists will be around, but also think about other people that want to be involved
janina: laura is providing weekly report on a11y bugs, but will defer going through bugs until next week
<oedipus> laura's bug collection: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0066.html
<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0155.html
cyns: overview of summary proposal, no change to changes proposal, all is in mail sent to list
<oedipus> Cyns' summary summary: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0157.html
<oedipus> maciej's reply to Cyns: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0159.html
cyns: recommending a UI toggle
for browsers to show/hide metadata, also browsers may show
summary in editing scenarios, converstaions with wendy chisolm
about summary, added an orientation attribute, not very easy
for AT to work out form table
... make things easier for AT, to provide info to users rather
than asking authors to summarise table structure in prose
... orientation is one of those, wnedy looking at AT and what
they could benefit from table markup
... makingh the need for summary less frequent, by giving AT
info to derive structure via markup.
... describing trends and relationships that are visibly
obvious, but not clear for all
... orientaion defines order and sorting, but wnedy wnats to
work on this more
... some proposals on list to use aria-sort
<oedipus> SF: 1 thing that's concerned me is should we be advocating its use at this time - summary and longdesc have support in some major ATs, don't have support in a lot of other AT - telling people to put info into place that locks it away from AT users will be very problemmatic
<oedipus> CS: WCAG support issue
<richardschwerdtfe> I don't like longdesc
<oedipus> JS: recommending UI's be able to expose hidden meta-data to anybody
<richardschwerdtfe> authors almost never use it
rich: really? i never realized :-)
GJR: there is a limited amount of utility for users to be provided with logistical info about tables
cyns: will you work with wnedy on this
GJR: yes
<oedipus> ACTION: GJR work with Wendy on user-side of what AT needs in order to communicate meaningful info to AT user [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Work with Wendy on user-side of what AT needs in order to communicate meaningful info to AT user [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2010-01-21].
<richardschwerdtfe> two things I despise in HTML - acckess key and longdesc
janina: how much can profitably be derived from markup
<oedipus> gez's comment on auto-summary: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0162.html
cyns: AT still having probs with
row and colspans
... we usually let AT off the hook
<Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say that logistical statistics are of limited use to the AT user
cyns: but AT need to step up, AT should be able to provide it
janina: are we at consensus, should we go point by point to get an idea of consensus?
cyns: concerned about just submitting change proposal without associated bits
janina: take it as given as other stuff will be raised
johnf: is with janina on this
cyns: expect pushback for htmlwg
hope there is not pushback from accessibility community, if its
just summary could have ready in a week
... more likely to approve orientation rather than summary, not
sure how to proceed
... put simple summary change prosal with heading listing other
chnages
<oedipus> SF: want to ask does proposal contain alternative spec-ready text?
<oedipus> CS: yes
cyns: does our wiki arcg=hive previous version?
GJR: yes
<oedipus> FIVE MINUTE WARNING
janina: due dates?
... lets have 2 action items, chnage proposal on summary netx
week and also report back on timeline for fucrther changes
GJR: will report on timeline
cyns: may need one off meet to diicuss
<oedipus> ACTION: Gregory - report on timeline for summary verbiage about what AT needs to communicate and report back to HTML5 A11y TF [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - - report on timeline for summary verbiage about what AT needs to communicate and report back to HTML5 A11y TF [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2010-01-21].
mattmay: has open action in reference to image analysis, image anaysis is described as adequate alternative for human generated text alternatives, but it is not
<mattmay> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ChangeProposals/ImageHeuristics
mattmay: please have a look, I plan on submitting before deadline
janina: should be getting to alt as it is very important to accessibility
cyns: some people mentioned it
may be useful to have a survey about hidden metadata
... such as alt, summary etc
<oedipus> terminology nit: it is not "hidden meta-data" we are dealing with, but "discoverable meta-data" is what i believe @summary should be
janina: wrpa it up, thanks all, see you next week
GJR: will wrap (thanks gregory)
<oedipus> thanks steveF for scribing
<oedipus> michaelC and or janina - should the minutes be world or member viewable?
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/thank y'all VERY much/thank y'all VERY much (not sarcastic)/ Succeeded: i/janina: discussing prospect/TOPIC: Face2Face Planning for HTML A11y TF Succeeded: i/janina: review action items/TOPIC: Action Item Review Succeeded: s/kleihm/kliehm/ Succeeded: i/cyns: overview of/TOPIC: @summary for TABLE proposal update Succeeded: s/text>/text?/ Found Scribe: Stevef Inferring ScribeNick: Stevef Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot, Janina, Michael_Cooper, Ben_Caldwell, Paul_Cotton, dsinger, Marco_Ranon, Matt, +1.617.300.aaaa, Geoff_Freed, Cynthia_Shelly, Steve_Faulkner, kliehm, Rich_Schwerdtfeger Present: Gregory_Rosmaita John_Foliot Janina Michael_Cooper Ben_Caldwell Paul_Cotton dsinger Marco_Ranon Matt +1.617.300.aaaa Geoff_Freed Cynthia_Shelly Steve_Faulkner kliehm Rich_Schwerdtfeger Regrets: Jim_Allen Laura_Carlson Stéphane_Deschamps Kelly_Ford Gez_Lemon Aurélien_Levy Sylvia_Pfeiffer Markku_Hakkinen Henny_Swan Wendy_Chisholm Found Date: 14 Jan 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: gjr gregory WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]