16:14:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #CSS
16:14:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-CSS-irc
16:14:48 <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
16:14:48 <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 46 minutes
16:44:30 <plinss> rrsagent, make logs public
16:46:44 <glazou> hi peter
16:48:54 <plinss> hello
16:50:16 <oyvind> oyvind has joined #css
16:51:53 <smfr> smfr has joined #css
16:52:36 <CesarAcebal> Well, I must leave now for the exam I had told you, so I won't be able to attend the teleconference today, sorry. Bye!
16:53:28 <glazou> bye CesarAcebal 
16:53:50 <glazou> argggggl just broke my headset :(
16:53:51 <glazou> sigh
16:54:17 <glazou> Zakim, code ?
16:54:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), glazou
16:54:27 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
16:54:34 <Zakim> + +95089aaaa
16:55:40 <Zakim> + +1.858.216.aabb
16:55:53 <Zakim> + +1.408.398.aacc
16:56:00 <plinss> zakim, +1.858.216 is me
16:56:00 <Zakim> +plinss; got it
16:56:27 <plinss> zakim, +95089 is glazou
16:56:27 <Zakim> +glazou; got it
16:58:08 <dsinger_> dsinger_ has joined #css
16:58:35 <dsinger_> Zakim, who is here?
16:58:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, plinss, +1.408.398.aacc
16:58:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see dsinger_, smfr, oyvind, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Lachy, szilles, myakura, jdaggett, shepazu, dsinger, krijnh, anne, TabAtkins, karl, fantasai, plinss, trackbot, Bert,
16:58:38 <Zakim> ... Hixie, plinss_
16:59:01 <dsinger_> Zakim, aacc is dsinger
16:59:01 <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
16:59:07 <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aadd
16:59:18 <smfr> Zakim: aadd is smfr 
16:59:30 <smfr> Zakim, aadd is smfr 
16:59:30 <Zakim> +smfr; got it
16:59:31 <dsinger_> zakim, mute me
16:59:32 <Zakim> sorry, dsinger_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:59:41 <smfr> Zakim: you should learn about colons
16:59:46 <glazou> Zakim, mute dsinger
16:59:46 <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
17:01:20 <TabAtkins> man, it keeps telling me the code is invalid
17:01:21 <Zakim> +Bert
17:01:49 <smfr> TabAtkins: dbaron had that issue last week
17:01:53 <TabAtkins> yup
17:01:58 <glazou> happens often
17:02:04 <smfr> file a bug!
17:02:13 <glazou> TabAtkins: try composing the code rather fast
17:02:23 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:02:45 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
17:02:49 <sylvaing> sylvaing has joined #css
17:03:37 <plinss> zakim, [Mozilla] has fantasai
17:03:37 <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
17:04:00 <plinss> zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
17:04:03 <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
17:04:53 <Zakim> + +1.281.712.aaee
17:05:02 <TabAtkins> Zakim, aaee is TabAtkins
17:05:02 <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
17:05:13 <bradk> bradk has joined #css
17:05:17 <dsinger_> zakim, who is here?
17:05:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, plinss, dsinger (muted), smfr, Bert, [Microsoft], [Mozilla], TabAtkins
17:05:19 <Zakim> [Mozilla] has fantasai
17:05:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see bradk, sylvaing, dsinger_, smfr, oyvind, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Lachy, szilles, myakura, jdaggett, shepazu, dsinger, krijnh, anne, TabAtkins, karl, fantasai, plinss,
17:05:24 <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
17:05:24 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has sylvaing
17:05:26 <Zakim> ... trackbot, Bert, Hixie, plinss_
17:05:33 <fantasai> glazou: Mozilla has implemented pointer-events property
17:05:38 <fantasai> glazou: And extended it to HTML
17:05:46 <fantasai> smfr: WebKit does that two
17:05:49 <Zakim> + +1.650.766.aaff
17:05:51 <fantasai> s/two/too/
17:05:55 <fantasai> only 2 values are implemented
17:06:10 <bradk> Zakim, 1.650.766.aaff is me
17:06:10 <Zakim> sorry, bradk, I do not recognize a party named '1.650.766.aaff'
17:06:24 <plinss> zakim, aaff is bradk
17:06:24 <Zakim> +bradk; got it
17:06:33 <fantasai> glazou: The two values are auto and none
17:06:35 <bradk> thanks
17:06:45 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0286.html
17:06:47 <fantasai> glazou: First item is percentage height calculations
17:06:52 <fantasai> Topic: Percentage Height calculations
17:07:03 <fantasai> glazou: dbaron is not on the call, so we may want to defer
17:07:16 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Nov/0027.html
17:07:20 <fantasai> Topic: Feedback on Spec Conventions
17:07:30 <fantasai> glazou: Discussed that last week, feedback from group is welcome
17:07:39 <fantasai> Tab: I went through thread and agree with everything fantasai said
17:08:01 <fantasai> Tab: Also, Schepers is using <em> in some cases for no other reason except to get italics
17:08:10 <fantasai> Tab: He's using it for italics, not for emphasis
17:08:14 <fantasai> Tab: He should be using <i>
17:08:23 <fantasai> Tab: That's the only comment I have; the rest seems acceptable
17:08:49 <fantasai> glazou: Do you want to send that yourself?
17:08:56 <fantasai> Tab: I can send it myself
17:09:03 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009OctDec/0148.html
17:09:05 <fantasai> glazou: Please also say that the group has no other comments
17:09:06 <fantasai> Topic: Snapshot
17:09:41 <fantasai>  propose the 2007 Snapshot as a topic for this week's telecon
17:09:41 <fantasai>    http://www.w3.org/TR/css-beijing/
17:09:41 <fantasai> Originally, I was going to request publication of the snapshot
17:09:41 <fantasai> as CR when Selectors went to CR or PR, but we're talking about
17:09:41 <fantasai> adding new features to css3-color that will not qualify for
17:09:43 <fantasai> the snapshot until css3-color hits PR. (CR will be insufficient
17:09:46 <fantasai> because the snapshot assumes implementation experience even if
17:09:48 <fantasai> the spec itself is not totally stable.)
17:09:51 <fantasai> The question is, what should we do here?
17:09:53 <fantasai>    - Delay the snapshot until color-correction is adequately
17:09:56 <fantasai>      specced, implemented, and tested?
17:09:58 <fantasai>    - Push color-correction into a css4-color spec or a
17:10:01 <fantasai>      css3-color-profiles spec and take css3-color to the
17:10:03 <fantasai>      nearest of CR or PR?
17:10:06 <fantasai>    - Drop css3-color from the snapshot?
17:10:08 <fantasai>    - Something else?
17:10:11 <fantasai> It's clear to me from the number of questions that the snapshot
17:10:13 <fantasai> answers that it's important for us to take it to CR and thereby
17:10:16 <fantasai> post it as a replacement for the outdated /TR/css3-roadmap and
17:10:18 <fantasai> as a target for /TR/CSS3. I was expecting that with Selectors
17:10:21 <fantasai> finally out of Last Call, this would be possible by the end of
17:10:23 <fantasai> the year. Since that is no longer the situation, I would like
17:10:26 <fantasai> us to come up with Plan B.
17:11:48 <fantasai> fantasai summarizes the options here
17:12:25 <fantasai> Tab: Were there other features we could include in the module with color-correction?
17:12:40 <fantasai> fantasai: There were some color profile related features that were dropped earlier in the cycle for css3-color
17:12:48 <fantasai> Tab: Then I'm mildly in favor of doing that
17:13:15 <fantasai> sylvaing: From the options you presented, I would be more inclined to leave color-correction for later
17:13:33 <fantasai> sylvaing: and just complete css3-color as-is
17:13:42 <fantasai> sylvaing: I don't think it's that interesting of a feature to hold up the snapshot
17:13:52 <fantasai> glazou: I agree
17:14:03 <fantasai> brad: You're talking about dropping color-correction, not css3-color?
17:14:08 <fantasai> sylvaing: Right.
17:14:18 <fantasai> brad: Then I agree with that. Seems like the best option to me too
17:14:39 <fantasai> Bert: Sounds good to me too. I'm in the mood for finishing specs, so let's finish some specs
17:14:54 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #css
17:15:00 <smfr> fantasai: you're breaking up pretty badly
17:15:03 <fantasai> fantasai: do we have implementation reports for the rest of css3-color?
17:15:18 <ChrisL> sorry to be late - got a storming headache today :(
17:16:03 <fantasai> Bert: We have tests, but test reports..
17:16:04 <glazou> ChrisL: np
17:16:08 <Zakim> +ChrisL
17:16:17 <dsinger> are we saying that css color would be silent on correction, or require none, or...?
17:16:36 <Zakim> + +1.408.996.aagg
17:16:51 <fantasai> fantasai: If we don't have implementations, then I propose we publish css-color as CR
17:16:52 <dsinger> zakim, aagg is [Apple]
17:16:52 <Zakim> +[Apple]; got it
17:16:57 <fantasai> fantasai: and the snapshot as CR along with it
17:16:58 <dsinger> zakim, [Apple] has dsinger
17:16:58 <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
17:17:12 <Zakim> -dsinger
17:17:33 <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/current/reports/
17:18:34 <fantasai> dsinger: What would the css3-color spec say about color correction then? Nothing?
17:18:36 <fantasai> glazou: correct
17:19:04 <fantasai> dsinger: If css3-color is specified in srgb, then it's implied you should color correct
17:19:22 <fantasai> dsinger: but doesn't say anything about how
17:19:37 <fantasai> dsinger: I'm fine with that
17:20:00 <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/current/reports/implementation-report-Firefox.html
17:21:24 <fantasai> Opera passes system colors, but nobody else does
17:21:42 <fantasai> glazou: so we can aim for CR only at this time
17:21:58 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Publish css3-color as CR
17:22:10 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009OctDec/0149.html
17:22:13 <fantasai> Topic: Namespaces
17:22:31 <ChrisL> opera10 passes http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/20080721/xhtml1/t0302-opacity-offscreen-with-alpha-c.xht
17:22:33 <fantasai> chrisl: I sent an email with a link to an implementation report
17:22:49 <szilles> Elika, if you are removing color correction do you not have to do another last call?
17:22:51 <fantasai> chris: which has passes for every test except one
17:22:59 <fantasai> szilles we never published color correction
17:23:07 <szilles> Ok
17:23:17 <fantasai> chris: I thought the test was wrong, but then bzbarsky pointed out the part of 2.1 that makes it correct
17:23:26 <fantasai> chris: this was news to Safari, which is why they failed it
17:23:37 <fantasai> chris: I believe the test is actually correct, just a bit underdocumented
17:23:44 <fantasai> chris: It still means we have one test where we only have one pass
17:24:00 <fantasai> chris: I just wanted to know what the situation was, wasn't proposing any action
17:24:12 <fantasai> Peter: I ran that test in FF3.5 and it didn't pass
17:24:24 <fantasai> chris: Oh. I might've been using 3.6 then. I'll check it
17:24:32 <fantasai> test in question - http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Namespace/20090210/syntax-013.xml
17:24:41 <fantasai> glazou: That test is fully green in Firefox 3.7
17:25:54 <fantasai> chris: But the CSSWG doesn't accept nightly builds
17:25:59 <fantasai> fantasai: We do, under certain conditions
17:26:22 <fantasai> Peter: It has to be not an experimental implementation, and publicly available
17:26:29 <fantasai> Peter: basically not something someone wrote to pass a test
17:26:52 <sylvaing> cool. is that criteria written down and documented anywhere ?
17:26:54 <fantasai> glazou: Did we need a clarification?
17:27:04 <fantasai> chris: I guess it's clear enough, just requires reading through it carefully
17:27:56 <fantasai> sylvaing, http://www.w3.org/blog/CSS/2008/04/04/resolutions_17
17:28:09 <fantasai> glazou: other topics were messages from dbaron, so deferring for now...
17:28:17 <dsinger> I think we can handle the comments, actually
17:28:18 <fantasai> glazou: Next one is about CSSOM, but anne sent regrets
17:28:27 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0336.html
17:28:29 <fantasai> glazou: Last item is about float values, some discussion on www-style
17:28:32 <fantasai> Topic: Float values
17:29:01 <fantasai> glazou: Peter noticed a subthread about the behavior of overflow regarding floats in ltr vs rtl
17:29:22 <fantasai> peter: I think dbaron was actually bringing that one up
17:31:16 <fantasai> fantasai: Do we want a resolution to publish the Snapshot as CR, or wait until css3-color is CR?
17:31:27 <fantasai> Bert: maybe we can decide to do them together, at the same time?
17:31:32 <fantasai> glazou: That would be cool
17:32:03 <ChrisL> (Opera10 has a bunch of extra passes for color, i will send in a test report)
17:32:09 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0343.html
17:32:47 <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Dec/0009.html
17:33:17 <TabAtkins> http://css-class.com/test/css/bidi/float-left-right-edge-rtl.htm
17:33:19 <TabAtkins> http://css-class.com/test/css/bidi/float-right-left-edge-rtl.htm
17:34:11 <fantasai> Tab: the original part, ignoring the overflow business, was just about float direction based on text direction
17:34:17 <fantasai> Tab: Instead of being absolute left or right
17:34:25 <fantasai> glazou: So 'start' and 'end'?
17:34:34 <fantasai> Tab: Yes. I think that's a fine idea
17:34:39 <fantasai> glazou: I think it's useful for bidi
17:34:45 <fantasai> fantasai: I agree.
17:34:49 <fantasai> glazou: I think we should add it
17:34:58 <szilles> i agree also
17:35:03 <fantasai> glazou: Other opinions?
17:35:10 <fantasai> Bert: I have no problem with adding it, not so sure it's useful
17:35:21 <fantasai> glazou: If you want to build web apps using floats in the bidi world, then you need it
17:35:30 <fantasai> glazou: It's useful, because you have to reverse everything.
17:35:45 <fantasai> Bert: That's the problem, you don't have to reverse everything, only some things
17:36:01 <fantasai> Tab: Right, so you use start and end when you need them to reverse, and left and right when you don't
17:36:07 <fantasai> Brad: This would be useful for drop-ca
17:36:12 <fantasai> p
17:36:23 <fantasai> ?: What spec are we editing here?
17:36:26 <fantasai> Bert: Box model, my spec
17:36:29 <ChrisL> s/Tab/Chris/
17:36:37 <TabAtkins> s/?/Bert/
17:36:42 <fantasai> actually, it's Tab+Chris :)
17:36:50 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Add start and end values to float
17:37:03 <fantasai> ACTION Bert edit box model to add start and end to float
17:37:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-198 - Edit box model to add start and end to float [on Bert Bos - due 2009-12-09].
17:37:11 <fantasai> Topic: Miscellaneous
17:37:25 <fantasai> glazou: Got an email from several people about dropping anonrules
17:37:33 <fantasai> glazou: because they want to implement an html editor
17:37:39 <fantasai> glazou: same problem I mentioned a long long time ago
17:37:47 <fantasai> Chris: This is what happens when stuff doesn't display
17:38:06 <fantasai> Chris: We could have rules that display in the dom, but have an ignore property which says the property is currently ignored
17:38:12 <fantasai> glazou: It's not only that, chris
17:38:22 <fantasai> glazou: When the processor sees a style rule it cannot parse, it drops the rule
17:38:29 <fantasai> glazou: It doesn't appear in the dom at all
17:39:24 <fantasai> fantasai: You also have the case that in some implementations, if the same property appears more than once in a declaration block, the earlier ones get dropped at parse time (rather than stored and ignored during the cascade)
17:39:38 <fantasai> ...
17:39:44 <fantasai> chris: Get a property value as a string
17:39:56 <fantasai> Tab: Right now the way you do this you have to parse the style sheet yourself with JS
17:40:18 <fantasai> glazou: The WG discussed that question a very long time ago and the answer from the vendors was we don't want to preserve style rules that we are not using because it impacts the footprint
17:40:30 <fantasai> glazou: I hope the vendors are going to change their view on this point, otherwise its pointless to discuss it
17:40:36 <fantasai> glazou: I'm seeing more and more requests on this topic
17:40:49 <fantasai> glazou: If we really want to have cross-browser applications ... it's a point we need to solve
17:41:15 <fantasai> sylvaing: The reason this whole thing came up is the whole marking things obsolete at DOM2
17:41:39 <fantasai> sylvaing: ... defining it as obsolete, or hold off on that until we have a resolution
17:41:47 <fantasai> glazou: Given the way CSS parsing works, it is unusued
17:42:15 <fantasai> ...
17:42:45 <fantasai> sylvaing: Just want to know, is what we're implementing in the future going to be like anonrule, or something else is going to replace it?
17:42:51 <fantasai> glazou: It is not useful as defined.
17:42:58 <fantasai> glazou: It's only for at-rules and style-rules that are dropped
17:43:06 <fantasai> glazou: You can only use it in some cases, not in all
17:43:19 <fantasai> Tab: It's used for at-rules
17:43:27 <fantasai> glazou: yes, it's too limited
17:43:34 <fantasai> glazou: it doesn't help with declarations that are dropped
17:43:45 <fantasai> sylvaing: Ok, so it's good to drop
17:44:03 <fantasai> Topic: Snapshot
17:44:55 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Publish Snapshot as CR along with css3-color
17:45:26 <fantasai> Proposed: Use it to replace /TR/css3-roadmap, also have /TR/CSS3 and /TR/CSS point to it
17:45:38 <fantasai> Bert: /TR/CSS3 will require the director's approval, the rest should be easy
17:45:49 <fantasai> Chris: /TR/CSS currently points to 2.1, you intend to replace that?
17:45:51 <fantasai> fantasai: yes
17:46:08 <fantasai> fantasai: /TR/CSS2 points to 2.1
17:46:13 <szilles> +1 for Snapshot CR and roadmap replacement
17:48:09 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposal accepted, pending director's approval
17:48:52 <dbaron> dbaron has joined #css
17:48:56 <fantasai> I note that /TR/CSS should probably be a redirect, not an alias...
17:49:10 <fantasai> ACTION fantasai make Disposition of Comments for Snapshot (even if it's empty)
17:49:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-199 - Make Disposition of Comments for Snapshot (even if it's empty) [on Elika Etemad - due 2009-12-09].
17:49:13 <Zakim> -ChrisL
17:49:14 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
17:49:15 <fantasai> Meeting closed.
17:49:16 <Zakim> -smfr
17:49:16 <Zakim> -bradk
17:49:18 <Zakim> -Bert
17:49:18 <Zakim> -TabAtkins
17:49:19 <Zakim> -[Apple]
17:49:19 <Zakim> -glazou
17:49:20 <dsinger> byeeee
17:49:23 <glazou> glazou has left #css
17:49:29 <smfr> fantasai: question for you
17:49:30 <Zakim> -plinss
17:49:52 <smfr> fantasai: how do the color tests work?
17:50:00 <smfr> specifically, what makes http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/20080721/xhtml1/t040501-system-colors-a.xht fail in webkit?
17:50:31 <fantasai> smfr: I have no idea, as dbaron. Maybe it passes now; those reports are not the latest latest
17:50:35 <fantasai> s/as/ask/
17:50:49 <smfr> the test says "there should be no red", and that's true in our result
17:50:50 <dbaron> css3-color is fine for pr if we don't worryr about color-correction
17:50:58 <dbaron> the system colors thing is just hard to test
17:51:00 <ChrisL> smfr, could you mail a screenie of what webkit does on that test?
17:51:08 <smfr> ChrisL: sure
17:51:12 <dbaron> sorry, couldn't dial in
17:51:28 <dbaron> can we un-resolve to publish css3-color as CR?
17:51:33 <ChrisL> dbaron - yes, its hard to test. or rather, its hard to write a test that its possible to fail
17:52:05 <smfr> ChrisL: sent
17:52:23 <smfr> we kinda hate system colors anyway, since they are too closely tied to Windows
17:52:26 <fantasai> dbaron: I'm pretty sure we can
17:52:42 <fantasai> dbaron: if you say we're ready for PR and we have the implementation reports for it
17:52:54 <dbaron> except for the sRGB issue, yes, I think we are
17:53:01 <dbaron> it needs a little arguing about system colors
17:53:25 <dbaron> which are pretty broken to begin with, and the reason I judged the implementation reports as "failing" is because colors aren't good enough to represent the system appearance
17:53:30 <dbaron> which is why they're deprecated
17:53:35 <fantasai> glazou: Can we alter the resolution via email?
17:53:46 <dbaron> however, we also don't have a draft to publish
17:53:51 <fantasai> glazou: Or wait for next week?
17:53:53 <dbaron> there's a whole bunch of comments that I need to address before we publish
17:53:55 <fantasai> ah
17:53:56 <fantasai> ok
17:54:04 <dbaron> even without color-correction
17:54:50 <dbaron> (it just cuts the number of comments that need to be addressed from 26 to 25
17:54:50 <fantasai> when do you think you'll have that done by?
17:55:03 <ChrisL> simon, i don't see anyting there that would indicate a fail
17:55:35 <dbaron> I probably won't have time this week or next.
17:57:25 <dbaron> smfr, what makes it fail is that it doesn't actually "look like a raised button... in the operating environment"
17:57:32 <fantasai> how about mon/tues the week after?
17:58:13 <dbaron> I can try...
17:58:30 <ChrisL> david, in that case the test is badly phrased. it would fail on anything that uses non-rectangular buttons for example
17:58:46 <dbaron> Also, was the publication of css3-transitions, css3-2d-transforms, and css3-3d-transforms permanently cancelled or just delayed?
17:58:49 <fantasai> dbaron, that'd be great
17:58:58 <fantasai> dbaron, delayed, I believe
17:58:58 <smfr> dbaron: ok
17:59:03 <dbaron> ChrisL, well, it's the *spec* that's badly phrased, really, since the features presume that...
17:59:36 <dbaron> I suppose maybe the test should say "look like the closest thing to a raised button in the operating environment that can be represented by ..."
18:00:24 <myakura> 2d-transforms and transitions were published yesterday.
18:00:28 <smfr> dbaron: seems like the worse issue is that ActiveCaption and CaptionText are both black, resulting in unreadable text
18:00:53 <dbaron> myakura, ah, ok, good
18:01:10 <myakura> not sure about 3d-transforms, though.
18:01:23 <fantasai> I don't think we had a resolution to publish 3d-transforms
18:01:24 <dbaron> I still have a bunch more transitions issues, but we can publish again in a few months...
18:01:29 <fantasai> :)
18:01:30 <smfr> right, we have not
18:01:32 <ChrisL> david - yes, that would be better wording
18:01:56 <fantasai> smfr, anyone on your side interested in writing a blog post to announce the drafts?
18:02:09 <dbaron> Also, when Zakim says "that is not a valid passcode", is it possible to find out what passcode it *thinks* I entered?
18:02:37 <fantasai> smfr, or should I just say that we published new WDs and leave it at that?
18:02:45 <smfr> i think that's fine
18:03:05 <dbaron> where does the master copy of the css3-color test suite live now?
18:03:06 <fantasai> Zakim tends to lock out the conference near the end, but I think that's usually just the last 5 minutes
18:03:27 <dbaron> fantasai, I couldn't dial in last week because Zakim wouldn't let me in
18:03:42 <TabAtkins> dbaron: I just called back like 5 times until it let me in.
18:03:51 <dbaron> last week I tried about 20 times
18:03:55 <TabAtkins> Wow.
18:03:59 <dbaron> and then gave up
18:04:17 <fantasai> dbaron: It's currently at http://test.csswg.org/svn/cvs-import/css3-color-test-suite/
18:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, [Mozilla], in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
18:05:06 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
18:05:08 <Zakim> Attendees were +95089aaaa, +1.858.216.aabb, +1.408.398.aacc, plinss, glazou, dsinger, +1.408.636.aadd, smfr, Bert, fantasai, sylvaing, +1.281.712.aaee, TabAtkins, +1.650.766.aaff,
18:05:10 <Zakim> ... bradk, ChrisL, +1.408.996.aagg
18:05:19 <fantasai> oh, heh. I guess I didn't click the right hang-up button
18:15:27 <dbaron> ok, I checked in new wording for the system colors test
18:15:38 <fantasai> ok
18:15:39 <dbaron> is there a way for me to point people to a file as-checked-in to SVN?
18:16:13 <dbaron> hmm, I guess there's a viewvc
18:16:15 <fantasai> you mean like http://test.csswg.org/source/cvs-import/css3-color-test-suite/src/t451-system-colors-a.xhtml ?
18:16:17 <dbaron> I wonder if it serves HTML
18:16:28 <dbaron> yes, like that
18:16:31 <fantasai> :)
18:16:47 <dbaron> so how does that revised test look?
18:16:51 <dbaron> The second paragraph is new
18:16:57 <dbaron> and I tweaked the third-from-last test as a result
18:17:06 <dbaron> and then I changed the wording of the two button tests
18:17:43 <fantasai> The third-from-last test looks blank to me...
18:18:36 <smfr> fantasai: read the text above it
18:18:42 <smfr> it is confusing though
18:19:01 <fantasai> ah
18:19:02 <fantasai> right
18:19:03 <fantasai> heh
18:19:16 <fantasai> dbaron: looks ok to me
18:19:18 <dbaron> the problem is there's no appropriate required foreground color for that background
18:19:24 <fantasai> right
18:19:30 <dbaron> I made it inset so that it might be less confusing
18:19:36 <fantasai> Would it make sense to number the tests?
18:19:39 <smfr> dbaron: maybe put that one last?
18:20:13 <fantasai> dbaron: let me know when you want a new copy published on w3.org
18:20:15 <dbaron> I can make it width:10%
18:20:21 <fantasai> dbaron: I'll build it and check it in
18:20:30 <dbaron> or just 2emx2em
18:20:58 <fantasai> That plus s/block/square/ should be good 
18:21:54 <dbaron> ok, tweaked
18:24:07 <smfr> looks ok to me
18:24:16 <smfr> but i wouldn't fail webkit on the button color ;)
18:27:34 <dbaron> was the implementatino report I wrote for webkit-mac or webkit-gtk ?
18:27:55 <fantasai> dbaron: btw, next time you're having trouble calling in, ask me to conference you in
18:28:12 <fantasai> dbaron: I don't know how to do it here, but I can do it from home for sure
18:28:18 <dbaron> hmm, looks like webkit-mac
18:28:19 <smfr> dbaron: http://example.com/useragent/ SVN r36640 Mac OS X 10.4.11 WebKit 2008-09-19
18:28:34 <smfr> er, not sure how that url got in there
18:28:40 <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/current/reports/
18:28:43 <smfr> Mac OS X, anyway (Tiger!)
18:29:01 <smfr> the other two webkit failures are related to line height, not rgba colors
18:29:38 <fantasai> maybe you can patch the tests to not rely on that
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18:39:53 <dbaron> probably the easiest patch for that is to make them use the Ahem font
18:42:38 <dbaron> though, actually, I think the thing to do just mark WebKit as passing those tests, since it's passing the relevant parts of them
18:42:51 <dbaron> and it just doesn't do 'line-height: 0' correctly
18:44:07 <dbaron> I really don't know any other way in CSS 2.1 + css3-color to make two boxes of the same element overlap each other
18:44:14 <dbaron> which is what that needs to test
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19:16:10 <fantasai> dbaron: That seems reasonable to me. So WebKit and Firefox will get us to PR
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