IRC log of CSS on 2009-12-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:14:39 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #CSS
- 16:14:39 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-CSS-irc
- 16:14:48 [glazou]
- Zakim, this will be Style
- 16:14:48 [Zakim]
- ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 46 minutes
- 16:44:30 [plinss]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 16:46:44 [glazou]
- hi peter
- 16:48:54 [plinss]
- hello
- 16:50:16 [oyvind]
- oyvind has joined #css
- 16:51:53 [smfr]
- smfr has joined #css
- 16:52:36 [CesarAcebal]
- Well, I must leave now for the exam I had told you, so I won't be able to attend the teleconference today, sorry. Bye!
- 16:53:28 [glazou]
- bye CesarAcebal
- 16:53:50 [glazou]
- argggggl just broke my headset :(
- 16:53:51 [glazou]
- sigh
- 16:54:17 [glazou]
- Zakim, code ?
- 16:54:17 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), glazou
- 16:54:27 [Zakim]
- Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- 16:54:34 [Zakim]
- + +95089aaaa
- 16:55:40 [Zakim]
- + +1.858.216.aabb
- 16:55:53 [Zakim]
- + +1.408.398.aacc
- 16:56:00 [plinss]
- zakim, +1.858.216 is me
- 16:56:00 [Zakim]
- +plinss; got it
- 16:56:27 [plinss]
- zakim, +95089 is glazou
- 16:56:27 [Zakim]
- +glazou; got it
- 16:58:08 [dsinger_]
- dsinger_ has joined #css
- 16:58:35 [dsinger_]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 16:58:35 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see glazou, plinss, +1.408.398.aacc
- 16:58:36 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see dsinger_, smfr, oyvind, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Lachy, szilles, myakura, jdaggett, shepazu, dsinger, krijnh, anne, TabAtkins, karl, fantasai, plinss, trackbot, Bert,
- 16:58:38 [Zakim]
- ... Hixie, plinss_
- 16:59:01 [dsinger_]
- Zakim, aacc is dsinger
- 16:59:01 [Zakim]
- +dsinger; got it
- 16:59:07 [Zakim]
- + +1.408.636.aadd
- 16:59:18 [smfr]
- Zakim: aadd is smfr
- 16:59:30 [smfr]
- Zakim, aadd is smfr
- 16:59:30 [Zakim]
- +smfr; got it
- 16:59:31 [dsinger_]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:59:32 [Zakim]
- sorry, dsinger_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 16:59:41 [smfr]
- Zakim: you should learn about colons
- 16:59:46 [glazou]
- Zakim, mute dsinger
- 16:59:46 [Zakim]
- dsinger should now be muted
- 17:01:20 [TabAtkins]
- man, it keeps telling me the code is invalid
- 17:01:21 [Zakim]
- +Bert
- 17:01:49 [smfr]
- TabAtkins: dbaron had that issue last week
- 17:01:53 [TabAtkins]
- yup
- 17:01:58 [glazou]
- happens often
- 17:02:04 [smfr]
- file a bug!
- 17:02:13 [glazou]
- TabAtkins: try composing the code rather fast
- 17:02:23 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 17:02:45 [Zakim]
- +[Mozilla]
- 17:02:49 [sylvaing]
- sylvaing has joined #css
- 17:03:37 [plinss]
- zakim, [Mozilla] has fantasai
- 17:03:37 [Zakim]
- +fantasai; got it
- 17:04:00 [plinss]
- zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
- 17:04:03 [Zakim]
- +sylvaing; got it
- 17:04:53 [Zakim]
- + +1.281.712.aaee
- 17:05:02 [TabAtkins]
- Zakim, aaee is TabAtkins
- 17:05:02 [Zakim]
- +TabAtkins; got it
- 17:05:13 [bradk]
- bradk has joined #css
- 17:05:17 [dsinger_]
- zakim, who is here?
- 17:05:17 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see glazou, plinss, dsinger (muted), smfr, Bert, [Microsoft], [Mozilla], TabAtkins
- 17:05:19 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] has fantasai
- 17:05:22 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see bradk, sylvaing, dsinger_, smfr, oyvind, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Lachy, szilles, myakura, jdaggett, shepazu, dsinger, krijnh, anne, TabAtkins, karl, fantasai, plinss,
- 17:05:24 [fantasai]
- ScribeNick: fantasai
- 17:05:24 [Zakim]
- [Microsoft] has sylvaing
- 17:05:26 [Zakim]
- ... trackbot, Bert, Hixie, plinss_
- 17:05:33 [fantasai]
- glazou: Mozilla has implemented pointer-events property
- 17:05:38 [fantasai]
- glazou: And extended it to HTML
- 17:05:46 [fantasai]
- smfr: WebKit does that two
- 17:05:49 [Zakim]
- + +1.650.766.aaff
- 17:05:51 [fantasai]
- s/two/too/
- 17:05:55 [fantasai]
- only 2 values are implemented
- 17:06:10 [bradk]
- Zakim, 1.650.766.aaff is me
- 17:06:10 [Zakim]
- sorry, bradk, I do not recognize a party named '1.650.766.aaff'
- 17:06:24 [plinss]
- zakim, aaff is bradk
- 17:06:24 [Zakim]
- +bradk; got it
- 17:06:33 [fantasai]
- glazou: The two values are auto and none
- 17:06:35 [bradk]
- thanks
- 17:06:45 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0286.html
- 17:06:47 [fantasai]
- glazou: First item is percentage height calculations
- 17:06:52 [fantasai]
- Topic: Percentage Height calculations
- 17:07:03 [fantasai]
- glazou: dbaron is not on the call, so we may want to defer
- 17:07:16 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Nov/0027.html
- 17:07:20 [fantasai]
- Topic: Feedback on Spec Conventions
- 17:07:30 [fantasai]
- glazou: Discussed that last week, feedback from group is welcome
- 17:07:39 [fantasai]
- Tab: I went through thread and agree with everything fantasai said
- 17:08:01 [fantasai]
- Tab: Also, Schepers is using <em> in some cases for no other reason except to get italics
- 17:08:10 [fantasai]
- Tab: He's using it for italics, not for emphasis
- 17:08:14 [fantasai]
- Tab: He should be using <i>
- 17:08:23 [fantasai]
- Tab: That's the only comment I have; the rest seems acceptable
- 17:08:49 [fantasai]
- glazou: Do you want to send that yourself?
- 17:08:56 [fantasai]
- Tab: I can send it myself
- 17:09:03 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009OctDec/0148.html
- 17:09:05 [fantasai]
- glazou: Please also say that the group has no other comments
- 17:09:06 [fantasai]
- Topic: Snapshot
- 17:09:41 [fantasai]
- propose the 2007 Snapshot as a topic for this week's telecon
- 17:09:41 [fantasai]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/css-beijing/
- 17:09:41 [fantasai]
- Originally, I was going to request publication of the snapshot
- 17:09:41 [fantasai]
- as CR when Selectors went to CR or PR, but we're talking about
- 17:09:41 [fantasai]
- adding new features to css3-color that will not qualify for
- 17:09:43 [fantasai]
- the snapshot until css3-color hits PR. (CR will be insufficient
- 17:09:46 [fantasai]
- because the snapshot assumes implementation experience even if
- 17:09:48 [fantasai]
- the spec itself is not totally stable.)
- 17:09:51 [fantasai]
- The question is, what should we do here?
- 17:09:53 [fantasai]
- - Delay the snapshot until color-correction is adequately
- 17:09:56 [fantasai]
- specced, implemented, and tested?
- 17:09:58 [fantasai]
- - Push color-correction into a css4-color spec or a
- 17:10:01 [fantasai]
- css3-color-profiles spec and take css3-color to the
- 17:10:03 [fantasai]
- nearest of CR or PR?
- 17:10:06 [fantasai]
- - Drop css3-color from the snapshot?
- 17:10:08 [fantasai]
- - Something else?
- 17:10:11 [fantasai]
- It's clear to me from the number of questions that the snapshot
- 17:10:13 [fantasai]
- answers that it's important for us to take it to CR and thereby
- 17:10:16 [fantasai]
- post it as a replacement for the outdated /TR/css3-roadmap and
- 17:10:18 [fantasai]
- as a target for /TR/CSS3. I was expecting that with Selectors
- 17:10:21 [fantasai]
- finally out of Last Call, this would be possible by the end of
- 17:10:23 [fantasai]
- the year. Since that is no longer the situation, I would like
- 17:10:26 [fantasai]
- us to come up with Plan B.
- 17:11:48 [fantasai]
- fantasai summarizes the options here
- 17:12:25 [fantasai]
- Tab: Were there other features we could include in the module with color-correction?
- 17:12:40 [fantasai]
- fantasai: There were some color profile related features that were dropped earlier in the cycle for css3-color
- 17:12:48 [fantasai]
- Tab: Then I'm mildly in favor of doing that
- 17:13:15 [fantasai]
- sylvaing: From the options you presented, I would be more inclined to leave color-correction for later
- 17:13:33 [fantasai]
- sylvaing: and just complete css3-color as-is
- 17:13:42 [fantasai]
- sylvaing: I don't think it's that interesting of a feature to hold up the snapshot
- 17:13:52 [fantasai]
- glazou: I agree
- 17:14:03 [fantasai]
- brad: You're talking about dropping color-correction, not css3-color?
- 17:14:08 [fantasai]
- sylvaing: Right.
- 17:14:18 [fantasai]
- brad: Then I agree with that. Seems like the best option to me too
- 17:14:39 [fantasai]
- Bert: Sounds good to me too. I'm in the mood for finishing specs, so let's finish some specs
- 17:14:54 [ChrisL]
- ChrisL has joined #css
- 17:15:00 [smfr]
- fantasai: you're breaking up pretty badly
- 17:15:03 [fantasai]
- fantasai: do we have implementation reports for the rest of css3-color?
- 17:15:18 [ChrisL]
- sorry to be late - got a storming headache today :(
- 17:16:03 [fantasai]
- Bert: We have tests, but test reports..
- 17:16:04 [glazou]
- ChrisL: np
- 17:16:08 [Zakim]
- +ChrisL
- 17:16:17 [dsinger]
- are we saying that css color would be silent on correction, or require none, or...?
- 17:16:36 [Zakim]
- + +1.408.996.aagg
- 17:16:51 [fantasai]
- fantasai: If we don't have implementations, then I propose we publish css-color as CR
- 17:16:52 [dsinger]
- zakim, aagg is [Apple]
- 17:16:52 [Zakim]
- +[Apple]; got it
- 17:16:57 [fantasai]
- fantasai: and the snapshot as CR along with it
- 17:16:58 [dsinger]
- zakim, [Apple] has dsinger
- 17:16:58 [Zakim]
- +dsinger; got it
- 17:17:12 [Zakim]
- -dsinger
- 17:17:33 [fantasai]
- http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/current/reports/
- 17:18:34 [fantasai]
- dsinger: What would the css3-color spec say about color correction then? Nothing?
- 17:18:36 [fantasai]
- glazou: correct
- 17:19:04 [fantasai]
- dsinger: If css3-color is specified in srgb, then it's implied you should color correct
- 17:19:22 [fantasai]
- dsinger: but doesn't say anything about how
- 17:19:37 [fantasai]
- dsinger: I'm fine with that
- 17:20:00 [fantasai]
- http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/current/reports/implementation-report-Firefox.html
- 17:21:24 [fantasai]
- Opera passes system colors, but nobody else does
- 17:21:42 [fantasai]
- glazou: so we can aim for CR only at this time
- 17:21:58 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: Publish css3-color as CR
- 17:22:10 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009OctDec/0149.html
- 17:22:13 [fantasai]
- Topic: Namespaces
- 17:22:31 [ChrisL]
- opera10 passes http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/20080721/xhtml1/t0302-opacity-offscreen-with-alpha-c.xht
- 17:22:33 [fantasai]
- chrisl: I sent an email with a link to an implementation report
- 17:22:49 [szilles]
- Elika, if you are removing color correction do you not have to do another last call?
- 17:22:51 [fantasai]
- chris: which has passes for every test except one
- 17:22:59 [fantasai]
- szilles we never published color correction
- 17:23:07 [szilles]
- Ok
- 17:23:17 [fantasai]
- chris: I thought the test was wrong, but then bzbarsky pointed out the part of 2.1 that makes it correct
- 17:23:26 [fantasai]
- chris: this was news to Safari, which is why they failed it
- 17:23:37 [fantasai]
- chris: I believe the test is actually correct, just a bit underdocumented
- 17:23:44 [fantasai]
- chris: It still means we have one test where we only have one pass
- 17:24:00 [fantasai]
- chris: I just wanted to know what the situation was, wasn't proposing any action
- 17:24:12 [fantasai]
- Peter: I ran that test in FF3.5 and it didn't pass
- 17:24:24 [fantasai]
- chris: Oh. I might've been using 3.6 then. I'll check it
- 17:24:32 [fantasai]
- test in question - http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Namespace/20090210/syntax-013.xml
- 17:24:41 [fantasai]
- glazou: That test is fully green in Firefox 3.7
- 17:25:54 [fantasai]
- chris: But the CSSWG doesn't accept nightly builds
- 17:25:59 [fantasai]
- fantasai: We do, under certain conditions
- 17:26:22 [fantasai]
- Peter: It has to be not an experimental implementation, and publicly available
- 17:26:29 [fantasai]
- Peter: basically not something someone wrote to pass a test
- 17:26:52 [sylvaing]
- cool. is that criteria written down and documented anywhere ?
- 17:26:54 [fantasai]
- glazou: Did we need a clarification?
- 17:27:04 [fantasai]
- chris: I guess it's clear enough, just requires reading through it carefully
- 17:27:56 [fantasai]
- sylvaing, http://www.w3.org/blog/CSS/2008/04/04/resolutions_17
- 17:28:09 [fantasai]
- glazou: other topics were messages from dbaron, so deferring for now...
- 17:28:17 [dsinger]
- I think we can handle the comments, actually
- 17:28:18 [fantasai]
- glazou: Next one is about CSSOM, but anne sent regrets
- 17:28:27 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0336.html
- 17:28:29 [fantasai]
- glazou: Last item is about float values, some discussion on www-style
- 17:28:32 [fantasai]
- Topic: Float values
- 17:29:01 [fantasai]
- glazou: Peter noticed a subthread about the behavior of overflow regarding floats in ltr vs rtl
- 17:29:22 [fantasai]
- peter: I think dbaron was actually bringing that one up
- 17:31:16 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Do we want a resolution to publish the Snapshot as CR, or wait until css3-color is CR?
- 17:31:27 [fantasai]
- Bert: maybe we can decide to do them together, at the same time?
- 17:31:32 [fantasai]
- glazou: That would be cool
- 17:32:03 [ChrisL]
- (Opera10 has a bunch of extra passes for color, i will send in a test report)
- 17:32:09 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0343.html
- 17:32:47 [plinss]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Dec/0009.html
- 17:33:17 [TabAtkins]
- http://css-class.com/test/css/bidi/float-left-right-edge-rtl.htm
- 17:33:19 [TabAtkins]
- http://css-class.com/test/css/bidi/float-right-left-edge-rtl.htm
- 17:34:11 [fantasai]
- Tab: the original part, ignoring the overflow business, was just about float direction based on text direction
- 17:34:17 [fantasai]
- Tab: Instead of being absolute left or right
- 17:34:25 [fantasai]
- glazou: So 'start' and 'end'?
- 17:34:34 [fantasai]
- Tab: Yes. I think that's a fine idea
- 17:34:39 [fantasai]
- glazou: I think it's useful for bidi
- 17:34:45 [fantasai]
- fantasai: I agree.
- 17:34:49 [fantasai]
- glazou: I think we should add it
- 17:34:58 [szilles]
- i agree also
- 17:35:03 [fantasai]
- glazou: Other opinions?
- 17:35:10 [fantasai]
- Bert: I have no problem with adding it, not so sure it's useful
- 17:35:21 [fantasai]
- glazou: If you want to build web apps using floats in the bidi world, then you need it
- 17:35:30 [fantasai]
- glazou: It's useful, because you have to reverse everything.
- 17:35:45 [fantasai]
- Bert: That's the problem, you don't have to reverse everything, only some things
- 17:36:01 [fantasai]
- Tab: Right, so you use start and end when you need them to reverse, and left and right when you don't
- 17:36:07 [fantasai]
- Brad: This would be useful for drop-ca
- 17:36:12 [fantasai]
- p
- 17:36:23 [fantasai]
- ?: What spec are we editing here?
- 17:36:26 [fantasai]
- Bert: Box model, my spec
- 17:36:29 [ChrisL]
- s/Tab/Chris/
- 17:36:37 [TabAtkins]
- s/?/Bert/
- 17:36:42 [fantasai]
- actually, it's Tab+Chris :)
- 17:36:50 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: Add start and end values to float
- 17:37:03 [fantasai]
- ACTION Bert edit box model to add start and end to float
- 17:37:03 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-198 - Edit box model to add start and end to float [on Bert Bos - due 2009-12-09].
- 17:37:11 [fantasai]
- Topic: Miscellaneous
- 17:37:25 [fantasai]
- glazou: Got an email from several people about dropping anonrules
- 17:37:33 [fantasai]
- glazou: because they want to implement an html editor
- 17:37:39 [fantasai]
- glazou: same problem I mentioned a long long time ago
- 17:37:47 [fantasai]
- Chris: This is what happens when stuff doesn't display
- 17:38:06 [fantasai]
- Chris: We could have rules that display in the dom, but have an ignore property which says the property is currently ignored
- 17:38:12 [fantasai]
- glazou: It's not only that, chris
- 17:38:22 [fantasai]
- glazou: When the processor sees a style rule it cannot parse, it drops the rule
- 17:38:29 [fantasai]
- glazou: It doesn't appear in the dom at all
- 17:39:24 [fantasai]
- fantasai: You also have the case that in some implementations, if the same property appears more than once in a declaration block, the earlier ones get dropped at parse time (rather than stored and ignored during the cascade)
- 17:39:38 [fantasai]
- ...
- 17:39:44 [fantasai]
- chris: Get a property value as a string
- 17:39:56 [fantasai]
- Tab: Right now the way you do this you have to parse the style sheet yourself with JS
- 17:40:18 [fantasai]
- glazou: The WG discussed that question a very long time ago and the answer from the vendors was we don't want to preserve style rules that we are not using because it impacts the footprint
- 17:40:30 [fantasai]
- glazou: I hope the vendors are going to change their view on this point, otherwise its pointless to discuss it
- 17:40:36 [fantasai]
- glazou: I'm seeing more and more requests on this topic
- 17:40:49 [fantasai]
- glazou: If we really want to have cross-browser applications ... it's a point we need to solve
- 17:41:15 [fantasai]
- sylvaing: The reason this whole thing came up is the whole marking things obsolete at DOM2
- 17:41:39 [fantasai]
- sylvaing: ... defining it as obsolete, or hold off on that until we have a resolution
- 17:41:47 [fantasai]
- glazou: Given the way CSS parsing works, it is unusued
- 17:42:15 [fantasai]
- ...
- 17:42:45 [fantasai]
- sylvaing: Just want to know, is what we're implementing in the future going to be like anonrule, or something else is going to replace it?
- 17:42:51 [fantasai]
- glazou: It is not useful as defined.
- 17:42:58 [fantasai]
- glazou: It's only for at-rules and style-rules that are dropped
- 17:43:06 [fantasai]
- glazou: You can only use it in some cases, not in all
- 17:43:19 [fantasai]
- Tab: It's used for at-rules
- 17:43:27 [fantasai]
- glazou: yes, it's too limited
- 17:43:34 [fantasai]
- glazou: it doesn't help with declarations that are dropped
- 17:43:45 [fantasai]
- sylvaing: Ok, so it's good to drop
- 17:44:03 [fantasai]
- Topic: Snapshot
- 17:44:55 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: Publish Snapshot as CR along with css3-color
- 17:45:26 [fantasai]
- Proposed: Use it to replace /TR/css3-roadmap, also have /TR/CSS3 and /TR/CSS point to it
- 17:45:38 [fantasai]
- Bert: /TR/CSS3 will require the director's approval, the rest should be easy
- 17:45:49 [fantasai]
- Chris: /TR/CSS currently points to 2.1, you intend to replace that?
- 17:45:51 [fantasai]
- fantasai: yes
- 17:46:08 [fantasai]
- fantasai: /TR/CSS2 points to 2.1
- 17:46:13 [szilles]
- +1 for Snapshot CR and roadmap replacement
- 17:48:09 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: Proposal accepted, pending director's approval
- 17:48:52 [dbaron]
- dbaron has joined #css
- 17:48:56 [fantasai]
- I note that /TR/CSS should probably be a redirect, not an alias...
- 17:49:10 [fantasai]
- ACTION fantasai make Disposition of Comments for Snapshot (even if it's empty)
- 17:49:10 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-199 - Make Disposition of Comments for Snapshot (even if it's empty) [on Elika Etemad - due 2009-12-09].
- 17:49:13 [Zakim]
- -ChrisL
- 17:49:14 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 17:49:15 [fantasai]
- Meeting closed.
- 17:49:16 [Zakim]
- -smfr
- 17:49:16 [Zakim]
- -bradk
- 17:49:18 [Zakim]
- -Bert
- 17:49:18 [Zakim]
- -TabAtkins
- 17:49:19 [Zakim]
- -[Apple]
- 17:49:19 [Zakim]
- -glazou
- 17:49:20 [dsinger]
- byeeee
- 17:49:23 [glazou]
- glazou has left #css
- 17:49:29 [smfr]
- fantasai: question for you
- 17:49:30 [Zakim]
- -plinss
- 17:49:52 [smfr]
- fantasai: how do the color tests work?
- 17:50:00 [smfr]
- specifically, what makes http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/20080721/xhtml1/t040501-system-colors-a.xht fail in webkit?
- 17:50:31 [fantasai]
- smfr: I have no idea, as dbaron. Maybe it passes now; those reports are not the latest latest
- 17:50:35 [fantasai]
- s/as/ask/
- 17:50:49 [smfr]
- the test says "there should be no red", and that's true in our result
- 17:50:50 [dbaron]
- css3-color is fine for pr if we don't worryr about color-correction
- 17:50:58 [dbaron]
- the system colors thing is just hard to test
- 17:51:00 [ChrisL]
- smfr, could you mail a screenie of what webkit does on that test?
- 17:51:08 [smfr]
- ChrisL: sure
- 17:51:12 [dbaron]
- sorry, couldn't dial in
- 17:51:28 [dbaron]
- can we un-resolve to publish css3-color as CR?
- 17:51:33 [ChrisL]
- dbaron - yes, its hard to test. or rather, its hard to write a test that its possible to fail
- 17:52:05 [smfr]
- ChrisL: sent
- 17:52:23 [smfr]
- we kinda hate system colors anyway, since they are too closely tied to Windows
- 17:52:26 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I'm pretty sure we can
- 17:52:42 [fantasai]
- dbaron: if you say we're ready for PR and we have the implementation reports for it
- 17:52:54 [dbaron]
- except for the sRGB issue, yes, I think we are
- 17:53:01 [dbaron]
- it needs a little arguing about system colors
- 17:53:25 [dbaron]
- which are pretty broken to begin with, and the reason I judged the implementation reports as "failing" is because colors aren't good enough to represent the system appearance
- 17:53:30 [dbaron]
- which is why they're deprecated
- 17:53:35 [fantasai]
- glazou: Can we alter the resolution via email?
- 17:53:46 [dbaron]
- however, we also don't have a draft to publish
- 17:53:51 [fantasai]
- glazou: Or wait for next week?
- 17:53:53 [dbaron]
- there's a whole bunch of comments that I need to address before we publish
- 17:53:55 [fantasai]
- ah
- 17:53:56 [fantasai]
- ok
- 17:54:04 [dbaron]
- even without color-correction
- 17:54:50 [dbaron]
- (it just cuts the number of comments that need to be addressed from 26 to 25
- 17:54:50 [fantasai]
- when do you think you'll have that done by?
- 17:55:03 [ChrisL]
- simon, i don't see anyting there that would indicate a fail
- 17:55:35 [dbaron]
- I probably won't have time this week or next.
- 17:57:25 [dbaron]
- smfr, what makes it fail is that it doesn't actually "look like a raised button... in the operating environment"
- 17:57:32 [fantasai]
- how about mon/tues the week after?
- 17:58:13 [dbaron]
- I can try...
- 17:58:30 [ChrisL]
- david, in that case the test is badly phrased. it would fail on anything that uses non-rectangular buttons for example
- 17:58:46 [dbaron]
- Also, was the publication of css3-transitions, css3-2d-transforms, and css3-3d-transforms permanently cancelled or just delayed?
- 17:58:49 [fantasai]
- dbaron, that'd be great
- 17:58:58 [fantasai]
- dbaron, delayed, I believe
- 17:58:58 [smfr]
- dbaron: ok
- 17:59:03 [dbaron]
- ChrisL, well, it's the *spec* that's badly phrased, really, since the features presume that...
- 17:59:36 [dbaron]
- I suppose maybe the test should say "look like the closest thing to a raised button in the operating environment that can be represented by ..."
- 18:00:24 [myakura]
- 2d-transforms and transitions were published yesterday.
- 18:00:28 [smfr]
- dbaron: seems like the worse issue is that ActiveCaption and CaptionText are both black, resulting in unreadable text
- 18:00:53 [dbaron]
- myakura, ah, ok, good
- 18:01:10 [myakura]
- not sure about 3d-transforms, though.
- 18:01:23 [fantasai]
- I don't think we had a resolution to publish 3d-transforms
- 18:01:24 [dbaron]
- I still have a bunch more transitions issues, but we can publish again in a few months...
- 18:01:29 [fantasai]
- :)
- 18:01:30 [smfr]
- right, we have not
- 18:01:32 [ChrisL]
- david - yes, that would be better wording
- 18:01:56 [fantasai]
- smfr, anyone on your side interested in writing a blog post to announce the drafts?
- 18:02:09 [dbaron]
- Also, when Zakim says "that is not a valid passcode", is it possible to find out what passcode it *thinks* I entered?
- 18:02:37 [fantasai]
- smfr, or should I just say that we published new WDs and leave it at that?
- 18:02:45 [smfr]
- i think that's fine
- 18:03:05 [dbaron]
- where does the master copy of the css3-color test suite live now?
- 18:03:06 [fantasai]
- Zakim tends to lock out the conference near the end, but I think that's usually just the last 5 minutes
- 18:03:27 [dbaron]
- fantasai, I couldn't dial in last week because Zakim wouldn't let me in
- 18:03:42 [TabAtkins]
- dbaron: I just called back like 5 times until it let me in.
- 18:03:51 [dbaron]
- last week I tried about 20 times
- 18:03:55 [TabAtkins]
- Wow.
- 18:03:59 [dbaron]
- and then gave up
- 18:04:17 [fantasai]
- dbaron: It's currently at http://test.csswg.org/svn/cvs-import/css3-color-test-suite/
- 18:05:01 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, [Mozilla], in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
- 18:05:06 [Zakim]
- Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- 18:05:08 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +95089aaaa, +1.858.216.aabb, +1.408.398.aacc, plinss, glazou, dsinger, +1.408.636.aadd, smfr, Bert, fantasai, sylvaing, +1.281.712.aaee, TabAtkins, +1.650.766.aaff,
- 18:05:10 [Zakim]
- ... bradk, ChrisL, +1.408.996.aagg
- 18:05:19 [fantasai]
- oh, heh. I guess I didn't click the right hang-up button
- 18:15:27 [dbaron]
- ok, I checked in new wording for the system colors test
- 18:15:38 [fantasai]
- ok
- 18:15:39 [dbaron]
- is there a way for me to point people to a file as-checked-in to SVN?
- 18:16:13 [dbaron]
- hmm, I guess there's a viewvc
- 18:16:15 [fantasai]
- you mean like http://test.csswg.org/source/cvs-import/css3-color-test-suite/src/t451-system-colors-a.xhtml ?
- 18:16:17 [dbaron]
- I wonder if it serves HTML
- 18:16:28 [dbaron]
- yes, like that
- 18:16:31 [fantasai]
- :)
- 18:16:47 [dbaron]
- so how does that revised test look?
- 18:16:51 [dbaron]
- The second paragraph is new
- 18:16:57 [dbaron]
- and I tweaked the third-from-last test as a result
- 18:17:06 [dbaron]
- and then I changed the wording of the two button tests
- 18:17:43 [fantasai]
- The third-from-last test looks blank to me...
- 18:18:36 [smfr]
- fantasai: read the text above it
- 18:18:42 [smfr]
- it is confusing though
- 18:19:01 [fantasai]
- ah
- 18:19:02 [fantasai]
- right
- 18:19:03 [fantasai]
- heh
- 18:19:16 [fantasai]
- dbaron: looks ok to me
- 18:19:18 [dbaron]
- the problem is there's no appropriate required foreground color for that background
- 18:19:24 [fantasai]
- right
- 18:19:30 [dbaron]
- I made it inset so that it might be less confusing
- 18:19:36 [fantasai]
- Would it make sense to number the tests?
- 18:19:39 [smfr]
- dbaron: maybe put that one last?
- 18:20:13 [fantasai]
- dbaron: let me know when you want a new copy published on w3.org
- 18:20:15 [dbaron]
- I can make it width:10%
- 18:20:21 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I'll build it and check it in
- 18:20:30 [dbaron]
- or just 2emx2em
- 18:20:58 [fantasai]
- That plus s/block/square/ should be good
- 18:21:54 [dbaron]
- ok, tweaked
- 18:24:07 [smfr]
- looks ok to me
- 18:24:16 [smfr]
- but i wouldn't fail webkit on the button color ;)
- 18:27:34 [dbaron]
- was the implementatino report I wrote for webkit-mac or webkit-gtk ?
- 18:27:55 [fantasai]
- dbaron: btw, next time you're having trouble calling in, ask me to conference you in
- 18:28:12 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I don't know how to do it here, but I can do it from home for sure
- 18:28:18 [dbaron]
- hmm, looks like webkit-mac
- 18:28:19 [smfr]
- dbaron: http://example.com/useragent/ SVN r36640 Mac OS X 10.4.11 WebKit 2008-09-19
- 18:28:34 [smfr]
- er, not sure how that url got in there
- 18:28:40 [fantasai]
- http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/current/reports/
- 18:28:43 [smfr]
- Mac OS X, anyway (Tiger!)
- 18:29:01 [smfr]
- the other two webkit failures are related to line height, not rgba colors
- 18:29:38 [fantasai]
- maybe you can patch the tests to not rely on that
- 18:33:40 [sylvaing]
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- 18:39:53 [dbaron]
- probably the easiest patch for that is to make them use the Ahem font
- 18:42:38 [dbaron]
- though, actually, I think the thing to do just mark WebKit as passing those tests, since it's passing the relevant parts of them
- 18:42:51 [dbaron]
- and it just doesn't do 'line-height: 0' correctly
- 18:44:07 [dbaron]
- I really don't know any other way in CSS 2.1 + css3-color to make two boxes of the same element overlap each other
- 18:44:14 [dbaron]
- which is what that needs to test
- 18:47:19 [sylvaing]
- sylvaing has joined #css
- 19:16:10 [fantasai]
- dbaron: That seems reasonable to me. So WebKit and Firefox will get us to PR
- 19:22:10 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #CSS
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