See also: IRC log
<ivan> paolo, this command can be given to zakim only maximally one hour before the start of the call
zakim thisis prov-xg
<ivan> which is still further away...
rsagent, please make record public
<pgroth> ??P3 is pgroth
<scribe> Scribe: Paolo
<scribe> Scribenick: Paolo
raphael are you minuting, or am I
cool
Yolanda asks whether any item is missing from the agenda sent in the invitation email
<ivan> agenda call
Yolanda invites Ivan to talk about the goals of this group
Ivan: semWeb recognizes a need
for provenance as part of their own work
... this is why the xg group was proposed on their side
<Deborah> http://www.dagstuhl.de/en/program/calendar/semhp/?semnr=09271 was the workshop we were in when we got serious about proposing this incubator group
Ivan: input expected: any area
that is mature enough to justify a W3C WG
... XG to WG is a normal progression, doe not always happen but
it would be natural
... after 1 year we may also conclude that nothing is ready to
be pushed for stdization
Yolanda opens the floor for questions
to Ivan
Yolanda had a chat with TBL including about this XG
so this is gaining visibility
<Luc> help
<Luc> sorry, i was just ryingn to get the list of commands ... still learning ;-)
<raphael> Chris Bizer introducing him ... from Free University of Berlin, very active in the Linked Data / SemWeb field
Olaf: working on a model for provenance of linked data
extending tools for LD publishing to be provenance-aware
J Cheney: uni of Edinburgh, data provenance (Buneman's group)
interest in curated DBs in biology
<Deborah> Paulo Pinheiro da Silva
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: 8 eight years working in provenance with Deb
inferenceWeb
CyberShare: spread the use of SW tech -- esp in
Earth science and env science
<Luc> Last week, I said I would make my survey available. It can be found at http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/18176/. Any feedback appreciated! Thanks
Andrea:
<pgroth> luc can I add a link to the use case page?
provenance: vocabularies over OPM: main app is trust for linked data
<Luc> yes, go ahead! thanks
Bertram / UC Davis: provenance for scientific workflows (Kepler)
scribe: efficient storage and
query of fine-grained provenance
... foundational models of provenance
... contributed to the prov challenges
Paul Groth: wiki ready to use and structured.
scribe: areas: use cases,
surveys, technologies, and events
... also deliverables, and minutes and confcall-related
pages
<ivan> wiki URI
<Deborah> naive question sorry - is the wiki linked from http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/
<pgroth> no it's not
Deb no...
Yolanda proposes to make a distinction b/w proposals from the group vs "things we agree to pursue"
<raphael> Deborah, Yolanda has writing right on the page located at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/ and could/should? add a link to the wiki
scribe: eg use cases should be proposed, then analyzed, then agreed upon
<scribe> ACTION: Pal to add a section and adequate structure for that [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
sorry that was Paul
<ivan> Deb, it is now:-)
Luc proposes to add presentations as well
<ivan> +1
Paolo proposes to create a repository of bibliography references
scribe: with appropriate tagging
<pgroth> +q
Yolanda agrees on the idea
<scribe> ACTION: paolo to curate the repository [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
<YolandaG> sorry Paolo we don't have a trackbot yet but i have requested it recently
Paul: proposes to use the wiki area on papers for that
Yolanda; so that means we cannot log actions formally? that's fine
oh, ok
yolanda asking about specific areas for use cases, communities we don't cover
scribe: eg people from Creative
Commons
... they have reqs that may be useful to include
... similarly for Dublin Core people, who are not currently
represented
Satya: their own use cases on provenance in microarray apps should be ready soon
<ssahoo2> paolo - this is from the W3C HCLS BioRDF task force
<pgroth> good job yolanda and ivan :-)
Paolo: is there a process to advertise this group?
<ivan> SW Activity blog
Ivan: no formal process but eg we can use the W3C activity blog
<pgroth> ivan, isn't it already on the blog?
Ivan: question is who is taking responsibility
<ivan> original announcement
Ivan: Ivan made an announcemt on
the blog, and
... is keen to do it again
<pgroth> ivan, typically how big are these working groups
<pgroth> ?
<pgroth> or incubator groups
Yolanda: goal is to reach out to specific communities, rather than sending out blanket invitations
Simon Miles: template is ready, people have been using it
scribe: rationale is to keep it
simple and essential
... specific field to explain what a current practice is and
how it may be replaced by a SW approach
Yolanda: propose to highlight who
the users are in the use case
... and highlight unanticipated uses of provenance
... which makes provenance useful in un-anticipated ways
... would like to have very explicitly "un-anticipated
users"
<pgroth> +q
Simon: template will have a separate section to that effect
<pgroth> +q
Chris (?): also add existing work done on the use case?
scribe: add a section to link to relevant work on that case
<scribe> ACTION: Simon to amend the current template [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
Paul Groth: what's the timescale for settling on a template
Yolanda: see next topic. Also,
people seem to be ok with it
... section on limitations: would like to be described in terms
of technical challenges
... involved in addressing the use case
... in general, categorization of challenges: understanding why
is provenance hard is one of the aims of the group
Simon: some limitations may be more social than technological
Yolanda: let's move forward with this template
Yolanda: group will expire in
09/2010
... when do we think we can stop with use case
collection?
... when do we start working on a roadmap?
... and on the state of the art on provenance
... soliciting questions on this
Luc: Q: what are the additional major milestones for the XG?
Yolanda: 3 top level items: 1)
set of use cases
... 2) a roadmap for how the community should move
forward
... 3) SOTA report
... 2) may lead to a WG proposal to W3C
Ivan: use cases should be
timeboxed -- 2 months?
... (end of 2009)
... early next year: start with technology overviews
... 2-3 people who volunteer to edit a SOTA overview
Paolo: avoid waterfall model
Yolanda: report should be
informed by use cases, that's why they come first
... propose to work on roadmap doc over the summer
<scribe> ACTION: circulate proposed timeline [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
<raphael> I jus want to emphasize that Paolo did a wonderful job
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/his/this/ Found Scribe: Paolo Inferring ScribeNick: Paolo Found ScribeNick: Paolo Default Present: Ivan, YolandaG, Paolo, +1.530.554.aaaa, pgroth, +049308385aabb, bertrand_lutaesc, chris_bizer, +0238059aacc, Raphael, +1.915.747.aadd, jcheney, +49.308.937.aaee, olaf, luc, smiles, andreas_peters, +1.518.276.aaff, deb, andy, ssahoo2 Present: Ivan YolandaG Paolo +1.530.554.aaaa pgroth +049308385aabb bertrand_lutaesc chris_bizer +0238059aacc Raphael +1.915.747.aadd jcheney +49.308.937.aaee olaf luc smiles andreas_peters +1.518.276.aaff deb andy ssahoo2 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Nov/0004.html Got date from IRC log name: 06 Nov 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-prov-xg-minutes.html People with action items: circulate pal paolo simon[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]