IRC log of sparql-func on 2009-09-15
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:05:22 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #sparql-func
- 13:05:22 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/15-sparql-func-irc
- 13:07:00 [AxelPolleres]
- paul, do you plan to dial in still?
- 13:07:42 [pgearon]
- yes, just dialling now
- 13:08:01 [AndyS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:FunctionLibrary
- 13:08:03 [Zakim]
- +pgearon
- 13:08:44 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:FunctionLibrary#Starting_Points
- 13:09:08 [kasei]
- kasei has joined #sparql-func
- 13:10:22 [AxelPolleres]
- lee, you are very hard to understand
- 13:10:32 [LeeF]
- I'll type
- 13:10:48 [LeeF]
- low hanging fruit for me is things that already exist, are implemented, and use data types within sparql
- 13:10:54 [LeeF]
- full-text search is def. not low hanging fruit to me
- 13:11:02 [LeeF]
- coalesce/if is on the boundary of what i'd want to consider, it scares me a bit
- 13:11:06 [LeeF]
- (but is very useful)
- 13:13:07 [AxelPolleres]
- andy: getNamespace, getlocalname are pragmatic but have proven to be confusing.
- 13:13:07 [LeeF]
- I wonder if we should discuss "classes" of functions? String functions, Date/datetime functions, Math functions, URI functions, logic functions, SPARQL-specific functions ?
- 13:14:29 [AndyS]
- Good idea.
- 13:14:38 [AxelPolleres]
- Andy: we should define agreed core with a chance to be implemented widely.
- 13:15:08 [LeeF]
- I don't necessarily agree to that. I'd prefer not to add a lot of keywords
- 13:15:15 [AxelPolleres]
- keywords vs. iris
- 13:16:14 [LeeF]
- I don't think we'll be able to pull whole function libraries in, I think we'll have to be selective...
- 13:16:28 [AndyS]
- I had: Specials (IF) // Constructed e.g. String to IRI // Library choices and library can be string, math, date/time etc
- 13:17:19 [AxelPolleres]
- AndyS: keywords only where we need to.
- 13:17:28 [LeeF]
- constructors
- 13:17:36 [AxelPolleres]
- turning strings into IRIs would be useful.
- 13:18:08 [LeeF]
- I think we should try to pick functions from just one library if possible
- 13:18:24 [AndyS]
- SQL has different evaluation
- 13:18:27 [pgearon]
- I don't see overlap as a problem, so long as namespaces are used
- 13:18:42 [LeeF]
- I think it's a little silly to standardize two substring (or whatever) functions
- 13:19:41 [AxelPolleres]
- Our take on overlaps would be to pick IRIs, not overlapping.
- 13:20:14 [AxelPolleres]
- shall we also pick a namespace for the existing ones?
- 13:21:08 [AxelPolleres]
- PROPOSED: pick one namespace for the core functions.
- 13:21:45 [LeeF]
- in Glitter I use "http://www.w3.org/2006/sparql-functions#" -- did I invent that or is that codified somewhere?
- 13:22:50 [AndyS]
- Invent I think but we coudl use that (rewrite history!)
- 13:23:13 [pgearon]
- LeeF, it gives a 404 on the W3C, so I suspect that it's not official
- 13:23:41 [LeeF]
- I must have seen it somewhere, since why would I have invented the /2006/ part of it?
- 13:23:41 [LeeF]
- hmm
- 13:23:48 [AxelPolleres]
- sqrt?
- 13:23:56 [pgearon]
- My main problem with XPath/XQuery is finding a library that implements it! :-)
- 13:24:08 [LeeF]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/att-0138/sparql-function-uri.html
- 13:24:28 [AxelPolleres]
- Agreement is to start with a subset of xpath/xquery.
- 13:24:30 [AxelPolleres]
- ?
- 13:24:34 [LeeF]
- (and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0168.html )
- 13:24:40 [LeeF]
- I'm happy with that.
- 13:25:02 [AndyS]
- +1
- 13:26:09 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-dtb/
- 13:27:41 [AxelPolleres]
- no exact different error values in SPARQL
- 13:28:56 [AndyS]
- && and ||
- 13:30:14 [AxelPolleres]
- Andy: our error is like a "superclass" of all the xpath/xquery errors
- 13:31:37 [AndyS]
- We can ask for me from XQ
- 13:31:43 [AndyS]
- We can ask for one from XQ
- 13:32:17 [pgearon]
- heh
- 13:32:35 [pgearon]
- should we create a namespace for "op:"
- 13:33:12 [LeeF]
- i play a bit dirty in Glitter:
- 13:33:13 [LeeF]
- static public final String OP_NAMESPACE = "http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions#";
- 13:33:19 [AxelPolleres]
- Option 1: base on XPath/XQuery and invent a namespace only for those which are separate.
- 13:33:34 [AxelPolleres]
- Option 2: take our own namespace for all
- 13:33:54 [AxelPolleres]
- Option 1 caveat: no namespace for op:
- 13:35:45 [AxelPolleres]
- ?X > ?Y
- 13:36:58 [AxelPolleres]
- is problematic... since it can boil down to different op: functions depending on binding of ?X ?Y
- 13:36:58 [AndyS]
- LeeF - I think I do same but I'm on the wrong machine to check.
- 13:37:29 [AxelPolleres]
- sparql:less-than
- 13:37:35 [AxelPolleres]
- >
- 13:38:14 [pgearon]
- While I'm quite happy to duplicate existing functionality in various namespaces, I don't see it as mandatory
- 13:38:18 [LeeF]
- Andy - maybe I copied you :)
- 13:38:38 [LeeF]
- Why do we define URIs for the existing operators?
- 13:38:44 [LeeF]
- s/do we/do we need to
- 13:39:00 [pgearon]
- LeeF, for completeness.... but I don't see it as essential
- 13:39:11 [AndyS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#OperatorMapping
- 13:39:18 [pgearon]
- it's basically overengineering :-) (But the W3C is good for that)
- 13:39:18 [LeeF]
- completeness is not a big (personal) motivator to me :)
- 13:39:40 [AndyS]
- It would nice because SPARQL is dynamic to have a IRI for each symbol in that table.
- 13:39:44 [AndyS]
- :-)
- 13:39:57 [pgearon]
- but that's my point... it would be "nice"
- 13:40:01 [pgearon]
- not essential
- 13:40:04 [LeeF]
- right, but.... so? :-)
- 13:40:13 [LeeF]
- right!
- 13:40:16 [LeeF]
- not going to do that :)
- 13:40:23 [LeeF]
- ?foo(?bar)
- 13:40:25 [AndyS]
- ?var(?a, ?b, ?c)
- 13:40:28 [pgearon]
- I'd like it, but I don't see it as essential
- 13:40:41 [LeeF]
- no no, not interesting at all :)
- 13:40:47 [pgearon]
- Andy: That'd be so cool
- 13:40:56 [pgearon]
- I've already been talking with people about doing that in Mulgara :-)
- 13:40:56 [AxelPolleres]
- -1 to that... looks suspicious.
- 13:41:07 [LeeF]
- pgearon, stop that
- 13:41:08 [LeeF]
- :)
- 13:41:16 [AndyS]
- eval(?func, ?a, ?,?c)
- 13:41:28 [pgearon]
- LeeF, I'm not kidding. Have been seriously considering
- 13:41:53 [LeeF]
- yes, that's the part that worries me
- 13:42:02 [LeeF]
- ;)
- 13:42:42 [AxelPolleres]
- In RIF we have that... special keyword External( ... ) to delimit externally evaluated functions/predicates
- 13:42:56 [pgearon]
- I don't know that eval is needed. So long at the namespace for an "unknown" function leads me to something
- 13:44:48 [AxelPolleres]
- ISSUE: shall we allow variables in function position?
- 13:45:19 [LeeF]
- I'm very much against that, seems way beyond the scope of what we set out to do
- 13:45:22 [pgearon]
- just don't forbid it, and I can work with it as a valid extension :-)
- 13:45:35 [LeeF]
- No, no agreement there
- 13:45:38 [LeeF]
- IF might need one
- 13:45:42 [AndyS]
- -1
- 13:45:46 [LeeF]
- IF might need one
- 13:45:51 [AndyS]
- -1 to ?var()
- 13:46:09 [pgearon]
- I don't want to see a new keyword. Just a namespace that must (?) be implemented
- 13:46:38 [pgearon]
- something like sparql:
- 13:46:43 [LeeF]
- pgearon +1
- 13:46:54 [pgearon]
- duplicate functionality into that namespace
- 13:47:32 [AxelPolleres]
- so, we put ALL core functions into the core namespace?
- 13:48:31 [AxelPolleres]
- +1 to keep all core in our namespace.
- 13:49:05 [AxelPolleres]
- paul: sparql functionality in terms of 3 different namespaces sounds messy.
- 13:49:47 [LeeF]
- I guess I don't really care about the URIs. I'm much more interested in which functions we adopt
- 13:49:52 [AxelPolleres]
- ... the one namespace could be the standard namespace.
- 13:49:57 [pgearon]
- "defined as part of the core library". I like that way of putting it
- 13:50:08 [AxelPolleres]
- AndyS: we already allow other namespaces.
- 13:50:13 [AndyS]
- -1 to namespace : +1 to LeeF
- 13:50:18 [pgearon]
- just a reminder: we're 10 minutes out from the SPARQL call
- 13:51:28 [AxelPolleres]
- let's continue at this slot next or in two weeks?
- 13:51:28 [pgearon]
- I won't be available next week, but fine for 2 weeks
- 13:51:36 [AxelPolleres]
- I will try to summarize the status.
- 13:51:46 [AndyS]
- What actions will eb competed by then?
- 13:52:43 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: Axel to look over andy's core set.
- 13:53:07 [LeeF]
- AndyS++++
- 13:53:20 [pgearon]
- +1 for Andy's suggestion of defining a set of functions (eg. 5 string functions)
- 13:53:40 [pgearon]
- This is orthogonal to the namespace issue. I'm happy with it
- 13:53:51 [AxelPolleres]
- Andy: my interest in the libary is that it is available everywhere. small set that everyone has would be a big step forward.
- 13:54:02 [AxelPolleres]
- +1
- 13:54:31 [pgearon]
- Looks like we have consensus on defining a set of functions
- 13:55:29 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: to mail result of previous acttion to list and ask who supports what
- 13:55:41 [Zakim]
- -LeeF
- 13:55:43 [pgearon]
- Thanks everyone
- 13:55:45 [Zakim]
- -AxelPolleres
- 13:55:47 [kasei]
- kasei has left #sparql-func
- 13:55:48 [Zakim]
- -pgearon
- 13:55:58 [Zakim]
- -AndyS
- 13:56:00 [Zakim]
- Team_(sparql-func)13:02Z has ended
- 13:56:01 [Zakim]
- Attendees were AndyS, +3539149aaaa, AxelPolleres, LeeF, pgearon
- 13:56:45 [AxelPolleres]
- THanks!
- 13:56:45 [AxelPolleres]
- BTW: anyone knows *where* these actions are tracked or whether they are at all?
- 13:57:01 [AxelPolleres]
- I assume I can use the normal SPARQL action tracker?
- 13:58:00 [AxelPolleres]
- rrsagent, make records public
- 13:58:12 [AndyS]
- RRSagent puts them in the minutes
- 13:58:22 [AndyS]
- trackbot is the wiki thing
- 13:58:26 [LeeF]
- If you want to use the regular sparql tracker, you'll need to port them yourself
- 14:00:04 [AndyS]
- AndyS has left #sparql-func
- 14:02:36 [AxelPolleres]
- yup
- 14:05:06 [AxelPolleres]
- :-) thanks all!
- 14:06:40 [AxelPolleres]
- RIF: Axel still following up, LC comments closed, going to Cand. Rec ... ah, ivan reporting already ;-)
- 14:07:20 [AxelPolleres]
- wrong window, oops. ignore.
- 14:14:37 [pgearon]
- pgearon has left #sparql-func
- 14:19:19 [AxelPolleres]
- member:rrsagent, make public minutes
- 14:19:29 [AxelPolleres]
- rrsagent, make public minutes
- 14:19:29 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make public minutes', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 14:19:32 [AxelPolleres]
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- 15:32:00 [Zakim]
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