13:01:57 RRSAgent has joined #wam 13:01:57 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-irc 13:02:11 + +45.29.aacc 13:02:15 ScribeNick: ArtB 13:02:17 Benoit has joined #wam 13:02:19 Scribe: Art 13:02:22 Chair: Art 13:02:26 + +49.208.4.aadd 13:02:28 Date: 27 August 2009 13:02:35 Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference 13:02:51 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0823.html 13:03:03 RRSAgent, make log Public 13:03:10 Regrets: Frederick 13:03:11 + +1.919.536.aaee 13:03:16 zakim, who's here? 13:03:16 On the phone I see Marcos/Arve, JereK, Art_Barstow, +45.29.aacc, +49.208.4.aadd, +1.919.536.aaee 13:03:18 On IRC I see Benoit, RRSAgent, arve, Zakim, Marcos, JereK, ArtB, timeless_mbp, tlr, shepazu, annevk, MoZ, marcin, anne, trackbot 13:03:28 abraun has joined #wam 13:04:02 Present: Art, Arve, Marcos, Jere, Marcin, AndyB 13:04:12 Present+ Benoit 13:04:20 +Josh_Soref 13:04:26 Present+ Josh 13:04:33 marcin2 has joined #wam 13:04:39 Topic: Review and tweak agenda 13:04:49 AB: draft agenda distributed on August 26 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0823.html ). Any change requests? 13:05:01 darobin has joined #wam 13:05:07 [ None ] 13:05:12 Topic: Announcements 13:05:19 AB: Reminders on upcoming deadlines: 1) Sep 14 is deadline to register for Widgets Testing event ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/TestWorkshop2009 ); 2) Sep 15 comment deadline for APIs and Events LCWD; 3) Sep 20 comment deadline for WARP LCWD 13:05:25 + +33.1.77.11.aaff 13:05:33 Present+ Robin 13:06:08 AB: Does anyone have any short announcements? 13:06:17 [ None ] 13:06:28 Topic: P&C spec: IRI/URI normalization 13:06:45 AB: on August 14 Marcin asked I18N Core WG ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0644.html ) for feedback on IRI/URI normalization. Addison replied ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0645.html ) with his personal comments but indicated the WG would review our request. Marcin, what's the status? 13:07:22 AB: found http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-core-minutes.html#item05 13:07:37 I have not seen the update yet. 13:07:53 MH: no, I have no additional info on their discussions 13:08:10 AB: OK, I'll ping Addison on this 13:08:20 Topic: P&C spec: Test template 13:08:27 AB: on August 20 Marcos asked the MWTS WG too review the test template ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0769.html ). Marcos, what is the status? 13:08:52 MC: they have not yet responded 13:09:10 AB: I did ping Dom privately and got a message he is out of the office this week 13:09:23 ... I'll ping him next week if he doesn't follow up 13:09:28 MC: OK 13:09:38 AB: is this blocking you Marcos? 13:09:40 MC: no 13:09:55 ... we are progressing though as if we will get an OK from them 13:10:01 AB: that seems reasonable 13:10:09 AB: any other comments on this topic? 13:10:21 AB: any thing else on P+C for today? 13:10:28 [ No ] 13:10:40 Topic: A&E spec: proposal to change name to Widgets 1.0: widget interface 13:10:48 AB: on August 20 Marcos proposed ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0774.html ) to change the name of the A&E spec to "Widgets 1.0: widget Interface". Are there any objections to that proposal? 13:11:18 RB: I'm ok with this 13:11:28 Arve: I'm OK with this change 13:11:30 +1 13:11:33 AB: I'm OK with it 13:11:36 +1 13:11:38 BS: OK 13:11:42 RESOLUTION: A&E spec will be renamed to "Widgets 1.0: widget Interface" 13:12:37 BS: what about short name? 13:12:42 RB: I think we can keep it 13:12:45 MC: agree 13:12:53 ;) 13:13:07 Topic: widget Interface spec: Storage Object 13:13:20 AB: on August 21 Scott Wilson ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0783.html ) asked some questions about the Storage interface. I don't believe anyone has responded to him. Marcos, what are the key issues here? The latest ED for WebStorage is http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/ 13:14:02 MC: some things are underspecified 13:14:07 ... re the Storage interface 13:14:13 ... this is section 5.1 13:14:28 ... I need to catch up on this thread 13:14:45 AB: anyone else have any comments? 13:14:48 [ No ] 13:15:05 AB: Marcos, how about you respond on the mail list? 13:15:13 MC: yes; I've started a draft response 13:15:21 ... I agree we nee to tighten the spec 13:15:27 ... we made to do another LC 13:15:41 ... but maybe it will just be a clarification 13:15:55 ... I think this can be implemented in JS 13:16:05 ... His concern is about hiding data 13:16:16 ... and making some parts private 13:16:26 ... thus a concern about querying 13:16:47 ... There are some JS structures to protect data 13:17:02 ... but it is easy for one object in JS to delete other objects 13:17:26 ... I still think it is implementable in JS 13:17:35 s/we nee/we need/ 13:18:18 ... Perhaps Robin has some comments here. 13:18:27 RB: I also need to catch up on this thread 13:19:15 AB: what is the level of "done-ness" of the Web Storage spec? 13:19:40 MC: Hixie and the WHAT-WG made a change recently to allow storing any data type 13:20:02 AB: so there are no longer any existing implemenations of the Web Storage spec? 13:20:08 MC: yes, that's correct 13:20:36 AB: what can we do to help push that spec along? 13:21:07 MC: not much except to actively participate in the discussions ongoing in other forums e.g. WHAT-WG, HTML WG, etc. 13:21:22 ... there are several tracking mechanims we would have to follow 13:21:44 ... the WHAT-WG list is probably the most important list 13:22:22 ACTION: barstow talk to Hixie about the publication status and plans for Web Storage 13:22:22 Created ACTION-396 - Talk to Hixie about the publication status and plans for Web Storage [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-09-03]. 13:22:52 Topic: Moving the "alert methods" to DAP? 13:23:00 AB: During the August 13 call we talked how to deal with the two alert methods that were removed from the A&E spec ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0791.html ). Marcos agreed (http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/actions/389 ) to talk to Hixie about HTML WG taking those two functions. 13:23:22 AB: On August 25 Robin indicated ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0818.html ) these functions are in scope for the DAP WG. 13:23:39 AB: Marcos, have you discussed this with Hixie? 13:23:51 MC: no, I haven't talked to him about this 13:24:01 AB: Robin, do you have an Editor commitment within DAP? 13:24:19 RB: it's too early to tell 13:24:32 ... but in theory we have an Editor for the UI spec of DAP 13:24:38 ... not can't say for certain 13:25:05 AB: Arve, you expressed some concerns about DAP taking on these functions 13:25:19 Arve: I think Robin's response covered my concerns 13:25:29 ... I'm not too concerned about where they are defined 13:25:58 AB: do we have agreement that DAP will define these functions? 13:26:14 MC: I agree 13:26:18 RB: I agree 13:26:31 AB: are there any objections to that proposal? 13:26:42 Arve: not me; I agree 13:26:58 MC: I don't think it matters much but they do need to be define 13:27:07 RB: you could join DAP 13:27:17 +1 13:27:18 MC: I'm subscribed to DAP's list but not a member of the WG 13:27:29 RESOLUTION: the alert methods removed from the A&E spec will be specified by DAP WG with cooperation from WebApps WG 13:27:56 AB: OK Robin? 13:27:59 RB: yes 13:28:18 AB: anything else about the widget Interface spec? 13:28:20 [ None ] 13:28:49 zakim, who is making noise? 13:29:00 arve, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Marcos/Arve (50%), +1.919.536.aaee (19%) 13:29:22 Zakim, who is making noise? 13:29:33 timeless_mbp, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Art_Barstow (100%), darobin (9%) 13:29:41 Topic: View Modes spec: Issue-97 -> How is ViewModes DOM related to CSSOM? 13:30:00 AB: Anne noted ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0800.html ) there is some overlap between the CSSOM View Module and the latest ED of the VM spec ( http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-vm ). Marcin raised this as Issue-97 ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/97 ) 13:30:50 Zakim, passcode? 13:30:50 the conference code is 9231 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), annevk 13:31:19 Marcos has joined #wam 13:31:21 +??P19 13:31:25 Zakim, ??P19 is me 13:31:25 +annevk; got it 13:31:34 Present+ AnneVK 13:32:12 we can hear you 13:33:05 AB: Anne and Marcin, want to find a way forward on this spec 13:33:45 hmm 13:33:57 if I sit closer to the Mac I can't see the screen 13:34:34 you could type what you say 13:34:42 I'll just type 13:34:43 -annevk 13:34:53 the main problem I noted was that there was overlap between the interfaces 13:35:04 and I was wondering whether that overlap had been studied 13:35:32 I haven't reviewed View Modes in full 13:35:40 it was not studied thoroughly yet 13:36:10 MH: yes, I noticed this overlap 13:36:21 ... we will need to review each others specs 13:36:30 ... and determine a way forward 13:36:53 ... I think splitting View Modes spec will help us 13:37:03 ... one part is Media feature; other is the interfaces 13:37:15 ... think we can get quick agreement on Media feature 13:37:25 ... and it does not overlap at all with CSSOM spec 13:37:41 ... think priority should be the Media spec 13:37:47 ... then we can take on the interfaces 13:37:51 +??P19 13:38:02 Zakim, ??P19 is me 13:38:02 +annevk; got it 13:38:34 AB: I get the sense that discussing the interfaces now prolly isn't the #1 priority 13:39:30 ... until we do more analysis, we should postpone discussion on the interfaces 13:39:46 AvK: it may make more sense for the CSS WG to define the APIs 13:39:47 -annevk 13:40:12 AB: thanks Anne for joining us; we will get back to you after we do more work on the interfaces 13:40:42 MC: if need be, perhaps someone from WebApps can join CSS WG and help form a bridge between the two WGs 13:41:00 MH: think first we should split the spec 13:41:11 ... then we could propose APIs are spec'ed by CSS WG 13:41:24 ... I think we can define the Media feature 13:41:38 MC: I don't care so much where the specs are done 13:41:48 ... more important that the specs Get Done 13:42:02 ... but we can't rely on CSS WG to do our work 13:42:17 MH: think we should define Media feature here in WebApps 13:42:27 ... and them give them the interfaces 13:42:47 MC: but we'll need to give them resource to define the interfaces 13:43:05 MH: a concern I have is their scope is broader than our requirements 13:43:37 ... I agree though we should do more about our interfaces 13:43:49 ... but need to work closely with CSS WG 13:44:11 ... want to avoid us creating something for which CSS WG finds problematic 13:44:39 AB: we can certainly ask them to review anything we want 13:44:49 ... we can't guarantee a response 13:45:10 RB: we need to be careful about tracking whether or not they respond 13:45:50 AB: agree; that means I'll need to follow-up with the CSS WG Chairs and/or their Team Contact 13:46:02 (nitpicking on the sideline here: you're required to reply actually) 13:46:18 Topic: View Modes spec: Issue-96 -> Should we split the ViewModes specification? 13:46:25 AB: on August 20 Marcin sent an email to CSS WG ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0764.html ) that asked for feedback about a propose spec split. On August 24 Robin sent a follow-up to CSS WG ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0799.html ). Marcin raised this as Issue-96 ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/96 ). 13:47:29 MH: I created this to track the question 13:47:48 AB: what you did is OK 13:48:11 AB: what do people think about this? 13:48:17 MC: ok to split 13:48:21 RB: OK with me 13:48:29 AB: anyone object to splitting the spec? 13:48:32 [ None] 13:49:00 RESOLUTION: the VM spec will be split into two parts interfaces and View Mode Media feature 13:49:33 MH: we can discuss spec titles with CSS WG 13:49:45 ... I will split the spec into two specs 13:49:59 ... I will get this FPWD ready ASAP 13:50:35 AB: I think you should get the Media feature spec ready first 13:50:47 MH: will do but I willl be on holiday most of next week 13:51:11 ACTION: barstow close issue #96 13:51:11 Created ACTION-397 - Close issue #96 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-09-03]. 13:51:23 Topic: View Modes spec: Issue-98 -> Cargo-culting (Relation DOM3 Events) 13:51:34 AB: Marcin raised ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/98 ) this issue on August 26 after a related discussion on www-dom and public-webapps but it appears there is consensus o( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/0814.html ) n how to address this issue. Marcin, what's the status of this Issue? 13:52:08 MH: there are a few sub-issues 13:52:16 ... what is closed is the type argurment 13:52:38 ... the bubbling and canceling still needs some discussion 13:52:48 ... we need to talk with the DOM people 13:53:08 ... but these issues are part of the VM Interfaces spec so not the highest priority ATM 13:53:38 ... we can discussion started with DOM and CSS WG after we get a FPWD out 13:53:55 ... we could close this issue and create a new one re bubbling and canceling 13:54:14 AB: that's OK with me 13:54:21 AB: anyone object to that? 13:54:27 RB: I'm fine with that 13:54:32 [ No other objections ] 13:55:17 RESOLUTION: Issue #98 will be closed and Marcin will create a new issue related to Bubbling and Canceling events vis-a-vis the VM Interraces spec 13:55:27 s/Interraces/Interfaces/ 13:55:43 AB: anything else on View Modes for today? 13:55:59 [ None ] 13:56:08 Topic: URI Scheme spec: status and next steps 13:56:15 AB: the URI Scheme spec's FPWD was 18 June ( http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-uri/ ) 13:56:32 RB: we haven't had much feedback 13:56:50 ... was expecting more feedback from TAG despite me prodding them 13:56:55 ... Not sure what to do next 13:57:05 ... We could fix the technical issues and then publish a LCWD 13:57:17 ... That would prolly be the easiest way 13:57:22 MC: I agree we should do that 13:57:37 RB: I'm happy to make the related fixes 13:57:52 AB: I tend to support that proposal 13:58:18 ... I don't think we'll get any more feedback until we publish a LCWD 13:58:43 AB: any objections to preparing a LCWD of the URI Scheme spec? 13:58:46 [ None ] 13:58:57 ACTION: Berjon prepare URI Scheme spec for LCWD 13:58:57 Created ACTION-398 - Prepare URI Scheme spec for LCWD [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-09-03]. 13:59:32 RB: I'll try to get it ready in one week 14:00:16 AB: OK, so then let's try to be in a position where on Sep 3 we can make a Yes/No decision 14:00:29 Topic: AOB 14:00:35 AB: anything? 14:00:47 MH: re WARP 14:01:02 ... we in ACCESS are thinking about objecting to this spec 14:01:21 ... I provided some info a while ago 14:01:38 ... the feature element and this spec is the basis for our concern 14:02:09 ... the subdomain attribute of access element is a problem area 14:02:18 ... think we need a more extensible design 14:02:34 ... may want to include other URI schemes e.g. sms:, tel:, etc. 14:02:41 ... also the name of the spec is an issue 14:02:58 ... need more work on security model 14:03:26 ... need more spec on what is done in the proc model and what is defined in the syntax of 14:04:07 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:04:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html ArtB 14:04:27 ... need to have some related discussions in DAP 14:04:40 RB: can you put your concerns in an email? 14:04:45 MH: yes, I will do that 14:04:56 RB: for each issue, please raise a LC issue 14:05:27 ... if you are not satisified with the WG's response, that will lead to a Formal Objection 14:05:49 MH: my email will include proposals on how to address the issues I raise 14:06:03 RB: please indicate the issues are against the LC doc 14:06:29 AB: anything else on this subject? 14:07:13 ... one reason we had a long review period for WARP was to give DAP some time to ramp up and review it 14:07:25 AB: any other topics for AOB? 14:07:28 [ None ] 14:07:37 AB: Meeting Adjourned 14:07:43 - +49.208.4.aadd 14:07:45 - +45.29.aacc 14:07:45 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:07:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html ArtB 14:07:46 - +1.919.536.aaee 14:07:47 -JereK 14:07:52 -darobin 14:07:56 -Marcos/Arve 14:08:00 -Art_Barstow 14:08:17 -Josh_Soref 14:08:18 IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended 14:08:19 Attendees were +47.23.69.aaaa, +1.850.385.aabb, Marcos/Arve, JereK, Art_Barstow, +45.29.aacc, +49.208.4.aadd, +1.919.536.aaee, Josh_Soref, +33.1.77.11.aaff, darobin, annevk 14:09:41 JereK has left #wam 14:15:02 Marcos has joined #wam 14:15:18 Marcos_ has joined #wam 14:17:14 RRSAgent, bye 14:17:14 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-actions.rdf : 14:17:14 ACTION: barstow talk to Hixie about the publication status and plans for Web Storage [1] 14:17:14 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-irc#T13-22-22 14:17:14 ACTION: barstow close issue #96 [2] 14:17:14 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-irc#T13-51-11 14:17:14 ACTION: Berjon prepare URI Scheme spec for LCWD [3] 14:17:14 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-irc#T13-58-57 14:17:21 zakim, bye 14:17:21 Zakim has left #wam