IRC log of swd on 2009-08-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:52:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swd
14:52:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/25-swd-irc
14:52:59 [TomB]
rrsagent, bookmark
14:52:59 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2009/08/25-swd-irc#T14-52-59
14:53:07 [TomB]
zakim, this will be swd
14:53:08 [Zakim]
ok, TomB; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
14:53:12 [TomB]
Meeting: SWD WG
14:53:14 [TomB]
Chair: Tom
14:53:28 [TomB]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Aug/0051.html
14:54:09 [berrueta]
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14:54:11 [TomB]
Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-swd-minutes.html
14:54:35 [TomB]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:55:59 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
14:56:06 [Zakim]
+??P2
14:56:10 [TomB]
zakim, ??p2 is me
14:56:10 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
14:56:51 [seanb]
seanb has joined #swd
14:57:36 [Ralph]
Ralph has joined #swd
14:59:05 [Zakim]
+??P8
14:59:17 [berrueta]
Zakim, ??P8 is me
14:59:17 [Zakim]
+berrueta; got it
14:59:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.607.785.aaaa
14:59:49 [Zakim]
+??P9
14:59:55 [seanb]
zakim, ??P9 is me
14:59:55 [Zakim]
+seanb; got it
14:59:56 [TomB]
zakim, aaaa is jphipps
14:59:57 [Zakim]
+jphipps; got it
15:01:36 [edsu]
edsu has joined #swd
15:02:08 [Zakim]
+ +30889aabb
15:02:46 [Zakim]
+Ralph
15:03:37 [aliman]
aliman has joined #swd
15:03:52 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose TomB
15:03:56 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +30889aabb
15:04:43 [Zakim]
+ +8686528aacc
15:04:45 [seanb]
scribenick: seanb
15:04:56 [Zakim]
+Ben_Adida
15:05:04 [Ralph]
zakim, aacc is Alistair
15:05:04 [Zakim]
+Alistair; got it
15:05:20 [benadida]
benadida has joined #swd
15:05:44 [Ralph]
zakim, aabb is Guus
15:05:44 [Zakim]
+Guus; got it
15:05:46 [Antoine]
Antoine has joined #swd
15:05:53 [Zakim]
+[LC]
15:05:59 [edsu]
Zakim, LC is edsu
15:05:59 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
15:06:01 [Guus]
Guus has joined #swd
15:06:20 [seanb]
Topic: ADMIN
15:06:26 [Zakim]
+ +49.440.aadd
15:06:34 [seanb]
PROPOSE to accept the minutes of the last teleconhttp://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-swd-minutes.html
15:06:37 [Ralph]
zakim, aadd is Antoine
15:06:37 [Zakim]
+Antoine; got it
15:06:44 [seanb]
PROPOSE to accept the minutes of the last telecon
15:06:44 [seanb]
http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-swd-minutes.html
15:06:51 [Ralph]
Antoine: I'm on holiday :)
15:06:54 [seanb]
RESOLVED: accept the minutes
15:07:17 [seanb]
tom: 110th teleconference (!)
15:07:31 [seanb]
...should be last, but some discussion about continuing WG to
15:07:40 [seanb]
...finish up some RDFa things.
15:07:59 [seanb]
Topic: RDFa
15:08:20 [seanb]
Ben: Been mired in discussions re HTML5.
15:08:32 [Guus]
i suggest to drop this action on UC for RDFa doc
15:08:38 [seanb]
...main reason to continute RDFa. As we figure out relationship with HTML WG,
15:08:49 [seanb]
...there are issues to address. Some extra time would be useful
15:09:03 [seanb]
...if we continue WG, then keep this action?
15:09:18 [seanb]
Guus: drop it.
15:09:23 [seanb]
ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:09:25 [seanb]
--dropped
15:09:26 [AntoineI]
AntoineI has joined #swd
15:10:05 [seanb]
Tom: What do we need to do to clean this up>
15:10:18 [Ralph]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/#WD-stop Working Drafts no longer in development
15:10:22 [seanb]
Ralph: don't need to explicilty do anything. Category on TR page
15:10:50 [seanb]
...eventually web master does garbage collection and will move things in here.
15:11:02 [seanb]
...No explicit action needed. Once charter expires, the draft will wind up there.
15:11:16 [seanb]
Tom: Any comments on other RDFa issues? Or role of SWD?
15:11:51 [seanb]
Ben: Main issue is that there is a conflict in HTML5 (only HTML WG that can produce Recs).
15:12:10 [seanb]
...despite best efforts, RDFa isn't in working draft (even in draft form). What are the issues?
15:12:32 [seanb]
...some claims for technical incompatabilities, which they (e.g. Ben et al) don't necessarily believe
15:12:50 [Zakim]
+??P24
15:12:56 [seanb]
...initial idea to have a new WG for RDFa. This might be premature. Should work together for
15:13:04 [seanb]
...a bit longer to see where we can get.
15:13:24 [Ralph]
zakim, ??p24 is DanBri
15:13:24 [Zakim]
+DanBri; got it
15:13:43 [danbri]
danbri has joined #swd
15:14:29 [ajm65]
ajm65 has joined #swd
15:14:35 [seanb]
Ralph: Ben suggested that this group ask to continue past Sept. Should we consider that now>
15:14:52 [seanb]
Ben: happy to chair remaining work as SKOS is done
15:15:21 [seanb]
Tom: proposal is that this group ask that the group continue past december in order to continue work on RDFa.
15:15:32 [edsu]
danbri: glad you could make it :)
15:15:42 [seanb]
...WG would continue not necessarily with the current chairs or set of people.
15:15:50 [seanb]
...any comments about that? For or against?
15:15:59 [TomB]
ack Ralph
15:15:59 [Zakim]
Ralph, you wanted to ask about a continued role for SKOS ?
15:16:22 [seanb]
Ralph: Could we combine with ongoing SKOS discussions
15:16:40 [seanb]
...thesaurus/SKOS community questions
15:17:08 [seanb]
Tom: extending charter opens possibilities of SKOS discussions past this telecon.
15:17:18 [seanb]
...Expect technical issues for SKOS finished today.
15:17:46 [seanb]
Ralph: If we ask for a charter extension, we need to say what we're going to do.
15:19:30 [edsu]
Ralph: does this not count "Finally, the SWDWG is chartered to complete the collaboration with the W3C HTML Activity to specify a W3C Recommendation on incorporating RDF semantics directly into HTML documents." in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/swdwg-charter ?
15:19:31 [seanb]
PROPOSED that the WG charter be extended through to December 2009 in order to perform outreach with the SKOS, RDFa and HTML communities.
15:19:38 [danbri]
+1 on simple short extension
15:20:52 [seanb]
Ralph: in my experience as team contact, this shouldn;t be controversial.
15:21:08 [seanb]
PROPOSED that the WG charter be extended through to end December 2009 in order to perform outreach with the SKOS, RDFa and HTML communities.
15:21:26 [Ralph]
+1
15:21:27 [seanb]
Tom: propose that we resolve this text
15:21:38 [seanb]
RESOLVED that the WG charter be extended through to December 2009 in order to perform outreach with the SKOS, RDFa and HTML communities.
15:22:11 [seanb]
Tom: Take the administrative aspects offline.
15:22:23 [seanb]
Topic: Best Practice Recipes for Publishing RDF Vocabularies
15:22:37 [seanb]
ACTION: Ralph to publish http://berrueta.net/recipes-20090407/ as a WG Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-swd-minutes.html#action07]
15:22:40 [seanb]
--continues
15:23:18 [seanb]
Tom: Thanks to Diego and Jon for the excellent work. And Ralph for publishing
15:23:30 [seanb]
Topic: Adding Metadata to W3C Technical Reports, Editor's Draft 02 October 2008
15:23:35 [seanb]
Tom: Nothing to report
15:23:40 [seanb]
Topic: SKOS
15:23:45 [seanb]
Tom: SKOS now Rec.
15:23:45 [Ralph]
3 cheers for SKOS!
15:24:24 [seanb]
Tom: Quite an impressive piece of work. Honoured to have participated over the 110 telecons!
15:24:39 [seanb]
...few details.
15:25:01 [seanb]
ACTION: Antoine to send an answer to Elliott's mail [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-swd-minutes.html#action03]
15:25:01 [seanb]
-- done ->see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Aug/0015.html
15:25:09 [seanb]
--done
15:25:16 [seanb]
ACTION: Antoine to respond to Daniel Barclay's mail by the mail in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jul/0022.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-swd-minutes.html#action04]
15:25:27 [seanb]
--done
15:25:33 [seanb]
see -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Aug/0029.html
15:25:40 [seanb]
ACTION: Ed and Antoine to provide before 17 August a pointer to the latest version [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:25:42 [seanb]
--done
15:25:51 [seanb]
see -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Aug/0030.html
15:25:58 [seanb]
ACTION: Ralph to publish the UC document as a group note at the time of recommendation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-swd-minutes.html#action05]
15:26:02 [seanb]
--done
15:26:09 [seanb]
ACTION: Sean to update the implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-swd-minutes.html#action06]
15:26:11 [seanb]
--done
15:26:16 [seanb]
ACTION: Alistair to respond to Felix and implement the changes resulting from our resolution to ISSUE-224 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-swd-minutes.html#action01]
15:26:18 [seanb]
--done
15:26:28 [seanb]
see -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Aug/0022.html
15:26:40 [seanb]
Tom: Namespace dereferencing problem
15:26:51 [seanb]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Aug/0050.html
15:27:14 [seanb]
...Namespace URI resolves to CR version of splash page
15:27:29 [seanb]
sean: this is what there is, so it needs tidying
15:27:56 [seanb]
sean: how best should I do this?
15:28:14 [Ralph]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20090315/skos.html
15:28:49 [seanb]
ralph: edit the document in place and we'll move it into TR.
15:29:11 [seanb]
ACTION: sean to fix doc at -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20090315/skos.html
15:29:14 [Ralph]
[may require me to buy the Webmaster a beverage]
15:29:37 [seanb]
ACTION: Ralph to move into TR space -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20090315/skos.html
15:29:48 [Ralph]
http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/
15:31:35 [seanb]
Tom: Latest version URI of SKOS reference doesn't have a closing slash.
15:32:16 [seanb]
Ralph: preference is not to have trailing slash
15:33:11 [seanb]
Tom: Any other issues?
15:33:26 [seanb]
...Question that Dan raised about acknowledgements to credit projects
15:33:49 [seanb]
...Ralph suggested revising the acknowledgements with an errata note.
15:34:02 [seanb]
...Or could do it in context of SKOS community page.
15:34:47 [seanb]
...no one shouting for fixing
15:35:01 [danbri]
I don't think editing the formal acks is needed... but we can ack funding sources and projects more visibly, to encourage EU et al to do more such funding
15:35:09 [seanb]
...Community after the SWD.
15:35:18 [seanb]
...Home page, wiki, mailing list.
15:35:19 [danbri]
(looming POWDER REC might be another opportunity , that was also EU-incubated)
15:35:39 [seanb]
...Team contact after WG ends charter is Ivan, but he's responsible for so much, it's
15:35:50 [seanb]
...unrealistic to expect much from him other than basic maintenance
15:36:16 [seanb]
...would like to propose that we think of having a designated SKOS community contact
15:36:38 [seanb]
... (or contacts) with names up there and write access to the pages/wiki etc.
15:36:48 [seanb]
...maintain mailing list and report to Ivan
15:37:03 [seanb]
...informal feedback that this would be a reasonable thing to do
15:37:38 [seanb]
...any other proposals or approaches?
15:38:04 [seanb]
Ralph: Antoine's been updating the SKOS homepage. Thanks!
15:38:13 [seanb]
Antoine: Not up to date with latest rec :-)
15:38:29 [seanb]
...would be happy to keep on with keeping the site up to date.
15:38:31 [danbri]
q+ to mention incubator option (eg. for extensions for subject classification languages like UDC) - is "going back to an incubator" a regress?
15:38:39 [seanb]
Ralph: Alistair?
15:38:52 [seanb]
Alistair: unlikely to have any time
15:38:58 [edsu]
+q
15:39:37 [seanb]
Tom: Would be good if whoever it is (e.g. Antoine) is acknowledged on the web page as a
15:40:18 [seanb]
...contact person. Ideally that contact would also take requests from community and discuss with Ivan.
15:40:42 [seanb]
...slightly bigger scope than just maintaining a web page. Antoine?
15:41:15 [seanb]
Antoine: Ok. Think we can go far with existing infrastructure. Already a good starting point
15:41:26 [danbri]
q?
15:42:00 [seanb]
Tom: how much activity on the ESW wiki?
15:42:01 [Ralph]
-> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SkosDev SkosDev on ESW Wiki
15:42:16 [seanb]
Antoine: Not much, but many of the issues and developments were taken care of.
15:42:22 [seanb]
...No need to do much with the wiki
15:42:22 [Ralph]
"SkosDev (last edited 2006-09-21 12:37:34 by JakobVoss)"
15:42:40 [seanb]
Tom: Is wiki linked to SKOS home page?
15:42:50 [seanb]
...if we have an existing wiki and it's functioning, then ok,
15:43:29 [aliman]
q+
15:44:15 [danbri]
TomB? I'm afraid I have to leave (unexpectedly) v soon too
15:45:13 [seanb]
Tom: Proposal on the table for SKOS community is to have Antoine function as a community contact listed on the SKOS homepage. Community contact will maintain wiki (SkosDev on esw) and mailing list (esw) and function as a point of contact for those wishing to do any further.
15:45:25 [Zakim]
danbri, you wanted to mention incubator option (eg. for extensions for subject classification languages like UDC) - is "going back to an incubator" a regress?
15:45:32 [TomB]
ack danbri
15:45:53 [seanb]
danbri: Wanted to draw attention to W3C Incubator. May seem retrograde to go back to incubator
15:46:09 [Ralph]
+1 to XG for SKOS Extensions
15:46:09 [seanb]
...but there are things bubbling under. Incubators come with infrastructure, wiki etc.
15:46:15 [TomB]
ack edsu
15:46:41 [seanb]
ed: Curious about proposal for dublin core community to assume some kind of role.
15:46:55 [danbri]
(people's bosses also understand the idea of a named w3c group, and they don't much notice difference IG XG WG .... so having incubators might help people get permission to work on skos extensions)
15:46:59 [danbri]
gotta run, sorry guys
15:47:10 [seanb]
Tom: proposal with DCMI hat on.
15:47:10 [danbri]
great work and congrats again! i will read logs and sync with Tom/Guus
15:47:18 [aliman]
cheers danbri
15:47:31 [Zakim]
-DanBri
15:48:21 [seanb]
Tom: want to encourage community activities about SKOS, but need minimal mechanism to ensure communication and discussion
15:48:32 [TomB]
ack Ralph
15:49:09 [seanb]
Ralph: thanks to Antoine for volunteering. Suggest reowrding that the WG nominate Antoine.
15:49:27 [seanb]
...ultimately Ivan's decision, but would be good to nominate
15:49:36 [TomB]
ack aliman
15:50:16 [seanb]
Alistair: Thanks Antoine. Links into pages on wiki. SKOS data zone and SKOS tool shed.
15:50:22 [seanb]
...places to register data and tools.
15:50:30 [Ralph]
Ralph: alternative wording "The SWD WG nominates Antoine to be the maintainer of the SKOS Home page http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/ and the public-esw-thes mailing list"
15:50:38 [seanb]
...being able to find data and tools to process it are crucial
15:50:54 [seanb]
...haven't been able to keep these up to date. If someone had some time to keep thse
15:50:59 [seanb]
up to date would be great
15:51:32 [seanb]
...some forum for support for definition of extensions. Getting together to develop an share extensions. XG for that
15:51:37 [seanb]
...sounds a reasonable idea.
15:51:43 [TomB]
q?
15:53:58 [seanb]
PROPOSED The WG would like to nominate Antoine as a "SKOS Community Contact" to maintain the SKOS homepage, moderate the public-esw-thes mailing list, oversee the ESW wiki and discuss further issues within the community with Ivan (as head of SW Activity).
15:54:48 [Ralph]
[the SKOS parts of the ESW wiki, specifically]
15:54:56 [seanb]
Antoine: homepage yes, mailing list yes, wiki may take a little more time
15:55:00 [seanb]
...discuss with Ivan is fine.
15:55:09 [Ralph]
+1 to Antoine for SKOS King :)
15:55:32 [seanb]
Tom: overseeing doesn't mean updating pages. Means managing access/spam etc.
15:55:48 [seanb]
..."keeping an eye on it" rather than updating it.
15:57:34 [edsu]
+1 for Antoine :)
15:57:47 [seanb]
Tom: this doesn't mean there's only *one* community contact....
15:58:40 [AntoineI]
+1
15:58:59 [seanb]
RESOLVED The WG would like to nominate Antoine as a "SKOS Community Contact" to maintain the SKOS homepage, moderate the public-esw-thes mailing list, oversee the ESW wiki and discuss further issues within the community with Ivan (as head of SW Activity).
15:59:04 [Ralph]
3 cheers for Antoine
15:59:07 [seanb]
Tom: Thanks Antoine!
15:59:23 [aliman]
+1 :)
15:59:36 [seanb]
Tom: Reached the end of the call and reached next steps for continuity with SKOS development.
15:59:41 [Guus]
q+
15:59:53 [seanb]
...Opportunity if charter is extended to follow up.
16:00:08 [seanb]
...although not everyone will necessarily want to participate
16:00:51 [seanb]
Guus: Seven and a half years ago started as WG chair for OWL
16:01:01 [seanb]
...this has been a small and efficient group.
16:01:07 [seanb]
...It has been a real pleaure.
16:01:19 [seanb]
...hope to see you all in the future. Thanks!
16:01:22 [Ralph]
3 cheers for Guus and Tom!
16:01:28 [AntoineI]
++
16:01:35 [seanb]
Tom: It's been gr8.
16:01:37 [jphipps]
+1 :)
16:02:09 [Ralph]
[all out for beers :) ]
16:02:12 [Zakim]
-Ben_Adida
16:02:16 [seanb]
meeting adjourned!
16:02:21 [Zakim]
-edsu
16:02:28 [seanb]
zakim, list attendees
16:02:28 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been TomB, berrueta, +1.607.785.aaaa, seanb, jphipps, +30889aabb, Ralph, +8686528aacc, Ben_Adida, Alistair, Guus, edsu, +49.440.aadd, Antoine,
16:02:31 [Zakim]
... DanBri
16:02:37 [edsu]
edsu has left #swd
16:02:40 [seanb]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:02:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/25-swd-minutes.html seanb
16:02:46 [Zakim]
-Alistair
16:03:01 [Zakim]
-berrueta
16:03:24 [aliman]
thank you all, hope to see you soon
16:03:39 [Zakim]
-seanb
16:05:25 [TomB]
Ralph, I didn't think fast enough on the call to thank you again for the fantastic support over the years - I can't thank you enough...!
16:05:41 [Ralph]
it's my job :)
16:05:49 [Ralph]
or, at least, my old job ;/
16:06:04 [TomB]
at any rate, one of your several jobs :-)
16:06:14 [Ralph]
but, more seriously, it's always a pleasure to work with this community
16:09:48 [Zakim]
-jphipps
16:10:14 [Zakim]
-Antoine
16:11:50 [Guus]
zakim, who is here?
16:11:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TomB, Guus, Ralph
16:11:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see danbri, Guus, benadida, Ralph, seanb, berrueta, RRSAgent, Zakim, TomB, jphipps
16:22:57 [Zakim]
-Ralph
16:25:10 [Zakim]
-Guus
16:25:15 [seanb]
Ralph -- are you still there?
16:25:49 [seanb]
(on IRC rather than phone)
16:30:11 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, TomB, in SW_SWD()11:00AM
16:30:13 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:30:15 [Zakim]
Attendees were TomB, berrueta, +1.607.785.aaaa, seanb, jphipps, +30889aabb, Ralph, +8686528aacc, Ben_Adida, Alistair, Guus, edsu, +49.440.aadd, Antoine, DanBri
18:31:42 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swd