12:57:40 RRSAgent has joined #swxg 12:57:40 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-irc 12:57:43 +??P5 12:57:47 -tinkster 12:58:21 +??P16 12:58:33 zakim, mute me 12:58:47 +tinkster 12:58:55 tinkster should now be muted 12:58:55 zakim, mute me 12:58:57 Zakim, ??P16 is me 12:59:02 zakim, what is the code? 12:59:14 7994 12:59:15 tinkster was already muted, tinkster 12:59:19 +AlexPassant; got it 12:59:31 the conference code is 7994 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), karl 12:59:33 +??P27 12:59:57 zakin, +??P27 is me 13:00:04 zakim, +??P27 is me 13:00:06 +FabGandon 13:00:07 +wonsuk 13:00:14 sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+??P27' 13:00:15 +??P32 13:00:19 DKA has joined #swxg 13:00:21 jsalvachua has joined #swxg 13:00:30 cperey has joined #swxg 13:00:32 Hello, to all 13:00:39 zakim, +??P32 is me 13:00:39 sorry, karl, I do not recognize a party named '+??P32' 13:00:53 mmm 13:00:54 harry not here yet 13:00:54 zakim, +??P32 is karl 13:00:54 sorry, karl, I do not recognize a party named '+??P32' 13:01:17 +mit531 13:01:26 zakim, ??P32 is karl 13:01:28 +karl; got it 13:01:28 +dom 13:01:33 zakim, mute me 13:01:33 dom should now be muted 13:01:42 petef has joined #swxg 13:01:45 Zakim, mit531 is me 13:01:45 +oshani; got it 13:01:45 zakim, +??P27 is mischat 13:01:46 sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+??P27' 13:01:49 RRSAgent, start meeting 13:01:49 I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', DKA. Try /msg RRSAgent help 13:01:54 RRSAgent, start it up 13:01:54 I'm logging. I don't understand 'start it up', DKA. Try /msg RRSAgent help 13:01:59 -??P27 13:02:04 +jsalvachua 13:02:09 RRSAgent, this is SWXG 13:02:09 I'm logging. I don't understand 'this is SWXG', DKA. Try /msg RRSAgent help 13:02:13 zakim, mute me 13:02:16 jsalvachua should now be muted 13:02:18 Zakim, mute me 13:02:22 +??P27 13:02:26 oshani should now be muted 13:02:43 yuk has joined #swxg 13:02:52 pchampin has joined #swxg 13:02:53 zakim, who's here? 13:02:58 On the phone I see AdamB, ??P5, AlexPassant, tinkster (muted), FabGandon, wonsuk, karl, oshani (muted), dom (muted), jsalvachua (muted), ??P27 13:03:05 +??P34 13:03:13 On IRC I see pchampin, yuk, petef, cperey, jsalvachua, DKA, RRSAgent, wonsuk, Zakim, mischat, oshani, renato, melvster, claudio, AdamB, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, dom, AlexPassant, 13:03:18 ... mattl 13:03:24 zakim, ??P34 is me 13:03:28 +cperey 13:03:34 +??P36 13:03:37 zakim, ??P27 is me 13:03:38 + +0797094aaaa - is perhaps mischat_ 13:03:52 +petef; got it 13:04:01 zakim, mute me 13:04:05 zakim, +0797094aaaa is really me 13:04:10 + +03539149aabb 13:04:14 +mischat; got it 13:04:16 zakim, who's here? 13:04:22 CaptSolo has joined #swxg 13:04:32 zakim, mute me 13:04:40 zakim, mute me 13:04:45 No danbri either? 13:04:52 cperey should now be muted 13:04:54 sorry, petef, I do not recognize a party named '+0797094aaaa' 13:05:08 maybe it is me? 13:05:10 On the phone I see AdamB, ??P5, AlexPassant, tinkster (muted), FabGandon, wonsuk, karl, oshani (muted), dom (muted), jsalvachua (muted), mischat, petef, cperey (muted), ??P36, 13:05:17 ... mischat_, +03539149aabb 13:05:25 + +39.011.228.aacc 13:05:27 mischat should now be muted 13:05:29 cperey was already muted, cperey 13:05:39 -> http://w3csocialweb.tumblr.com/ Last Week in Social Web Incubator Group 13:05:40 On IRC I see uldis, pchampin, yuk, petef, cperey, jsalvachua, DKA, RRSAgent, wonsuk, Zakim, mischat, oshani, renato, melvster, claudio, AdamB, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, dom, 13:05:45 ... AlexPassant, mattl 13:05:55 Does it just involve typing what's spoken to IRC? 13:06:01 +pchampin 13:06:24 If so, I can do that - I can type pretty quickly. 13:06:24 zakim, unmute me 13:06:29 cperey should no longer be muted 13:06:40 raphael has joined #swxg 13:06:52 ScribeNick: tinkster 13:06:56 Scribe: Toby 13:07:10 zakim, mute me 13:07:11 cperey should now be muted 13:07:15 cheers for tinkster 13:07:16 danbri and hhalpin details, so I'm scribing. 13:07:40 Harry's agenda had a typo for IRC channel. This is the correct one. 13:07:52 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/b3be92a00905121430x5f524560rfaa58328694779d3@mail.gmail.com 13:07:54 No roll call. Anyone new? 13:07:55 - +03539149aabb 13:07:56 Chair: DKA 13:08:04 Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group 13:08:10 I was there only on IRC last week 13:08:29 Alex Passant - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0020.html 13:08:34 zakim, whio's making noise? 13:08:34 I don't understand your question, DKA. 13:08:35 DERI Galway. 13:08:51 zakim, mute me 13:08:51 petef should now be muted 13:08:52 Interested in social/semantic stuff. 13:08:58 zakim, who is making noise ? 13:09:02 + +03539149aadd 13:09:09 mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mischat_ (26%) 13:09:11 Do we approve minutes from last meeting? 13:09:15 Any objections? 13:09:19 zakim, mute me 13:09:19 mischat was already muted, mischat 13:09:27 Zakim, +03539149aadd is me 13:09:27 +uldis; got it 13:09:39 We'll generally assume minutes approved unless we hear otherwise. 13:09:48 zakim, unmute me 13:09:48 cperey should no longer be muted 13:09:58 First, we'll hear about Christine's taskforce proposal. 13:10:06 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0051.html Christine's TF proposal 13:10:06 - +39.011.228.aacc 13:10:31 -> http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html Last week meeting minutes 13:10:39 zakim, ??P36 is me 13:10:39 +mischat; got it 13:10:43 Christine: task forces concept not just my idea. Helped to write it and adopted formula from workshops. 13:10:45 zakim, mute me 13:10:45 mischat was already muted, mischat 13:11:00 zakim, who is making noise ? 13:11:01 People at workshops and after expressed interest in specific topics. 13:11:11 mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: uldis (50%) 13:11:25 zakim, mute uldis 13:11:25 uldis should now be muted 13:11:28 Task forces illustrate depth and bredth of topics. 13:11:52 Christine doesn't percieve "mobile" as separate topic. Is relevant to all task forces. 13:12:02 This is why she doesn't propose such a task force. 13:12:05 +1 to not splitting mobile off. 13:12:11 + +49.899.5.aaee 13:12:27 Christine's task force proposal is not the only way this could be split up. 13:12:29 +raphael 13:12:42 zakim, aaee is Julian 13:12:42 +Julian; got it 13:12:42 Distributed and privacy/trust seem to have a lot of people interested. 13:12:50 +1 not splitting mobile 13:12:58 Julian from Vodaphone has joined us and will be introducing himself. 13:13:13 claudio has joined #swxg 13:13:16 Vodaphone R&D, research initiatives group. 13:13:25 Interested in context and standardising that here. 13:13:53 zakim, mute me 13:13:53 cperey should now be muted 13:14:11 + +39.011.228.aaff 13:14:14 DKA notes task forces have been successful in Mobile Web Best Practices. 13:14:17 hhalpin has joined #swxg 13:14:29 MWBP task forces have sometimes had own calls, own face to faces. 13:15:04 DKA speaks about definition of task forces. 13:15:10 Key feature is that they have a lead. 13:15:15 ack me 13:15:17 task force has leader and people/participants! 13:15:37 +1 to not split mobile too 13:15:39 danbri has joined #swxg 13:15:41 we need to have a critical number of experts 13:15:51 Dom: leader + charter. People can decide whether to join. 13:15:59 make sure task force scope is well defined 13:16:02 hi 13:16:02 zakim, mute me 13:16:02 dom should now be muted 13:16:05 sorry late, trying join 13:16:06 Needs more than 1 participant. 13:16:37 For every task force we want to launch, there is an overhead - identify leader, etc. 13:17:13 +??P48 13:17:14 e.g. a mobile web task force was set up for an open source implementation. Made sense to split it off, have own calls, have face to faces to work on code. 13:17:20 zakim, ??P48 is danbri 13:17:20 +danbri; got it 13:17:22 Different deliverables from main working group. 13:17:43 Any software development would certainly make sense as a task force. 13:18:00 Let's identify one or two task forces to split off and then phase in others if/when needed. 13:18:00 ..ooOO( 7 task forces, vs 7 email threads...? ) 13:18:24 What are people's priorities for task forces? 13:18:31 zakim, unmjute me 13:18:31 I don't understand 'unmjute me', cperey 13:18:40 zakim, unmute me 13:18:40 cperey should no longer be muted 13:18:49 It is not required that all task forces begin at the start of the incubator's activity. There may be delays either due to lack of appropriate leader or contributors, dependencies or lack of time on behalf of the incubator group's members. 13:19:10 how should the task forces map back to the XG charter? 13:19:13 Christine: sorry for echo on line. Agrees that some can be spun off later - sometimes deirable when there are dependencies. 13:19:25 or should i ask, do they need to? 13:19:39 q? 13:19:44 Christine: important to have a higher level "Landscape" task force. How does everything look big picture? 13:20:05 zakim, mute me 13:20:08 Christine: I want to be invoolved in that one. 13:20:14 +??P49 13:20:17 cperey should now be muted 13:20:18 yes, I would like to lead that 13:20:21 Zakim, P49 is hhalpin 13:20:26 DKA: agrees landscape tf makes sense. 13:20:34 q? 13:20:37 sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'P49' 13:20:40 Zakim, ??P49 is hhalpin 13:20:41 looks like he is 13:20:42 +hhalpin; got it 13:20:42 I am online. 13:20:49 both are on line 13:20:59 Who's speaking? 13:21:09 zakim, unmute me 13:21:09 cperey should no longer be muted 13:21:13 tinkster: hhaplin is speaking 13:21:21 Thanks. 13:21:22 i'm not getting audio here 13:21:30 Zakim, mute me 13:21:30 hhalpin should now be muted 13:21:33 hhalpin: agrees on having task forces. 13:21:38 zakim, who is making noise ? 13:21:49 mischat, listening for 11 seconds I could not identify any sounds 13:21:49 may i make my point by irc please?: for now re "task forces", let's start by seeing them as email threads ... 13:21:57 +1 for task forces to start and focus the work 13:22:03 I'd say 2 or 3. 13:22:03 agree that they need to be clarified based on interests 13:22:09 if we get > 10 messages in 1 of these threads, and more than 3 participants in that thread, then let's call it a Task Force ... 13:22:12 DKA: Scoping for task forces need more quantification. Don't want to split off 7 immediately. 2 is a good place to start. 13:22:14 q+ to ask about Landscape Task force future? 13:22:41 DKA: all Christines listed areas are good places, but don't necessarily need all of them to spin off separately. 13:22:42 notes that we also had a poll on task for projected participation in past... 13:22:47 let me find that URI 13:22:58 Landscape and Business areas - mergeable? 13:23:08 q? 13:23:28 Christine: there is overlap, but Landscape intended to look at technical aspects, and look for gaps. 13:23:28 q+ 13:23:41 MacTed has joined #swxg 13:23:52 Christine: metrics is muddy. 13:23:58 ack karl 13:23:58 karl, you wanted to ask about Landscape Task force future? 13:24:03 zakim, mute me 13:24:04 cperey should now be muted 13:24:36 Karl: Landscape seems to be about surveying. Incubator is 1 year (maybe two if we're lucky). 13:24:53 Maybe one thing we can say, if we wanted to start 2 or 3 task forces in order to get some work done, which 2 or 3 would be best? 13:24:58 zakim, unmute me 13:24:58 cperey should no longer be muted 13:25:13 Karl: Should we have a continuing forum for discussing developments after the XG is finished? 13:25:30 Christine: Landscape is a "living framework". On a wiki? 13:26:25 http://delicious.com/search?p=socialweb ? does it answer the needs or what is needed? 13:26:27 zakim, mute me 13:26:27 cperey should now be muted 13:26:30 Christine: capture the state of the art and then "colour on top of it to make it more rich". 13:26:31 I guess my question with Landscape is that it's more or less what the entire XG is supposed to be doing... 13:26:41 ack adam 13:26:55 DKA? agrees with christine about living document. 13:26:59 agreed hhalpin, the landscape sounds like what the final report will be 13:26:59 +MacTed 13:27:17 Adam: start with charter - this might reduce number of task forces. 13:27:24 I think that the landscape task force will contribute to the final deliverable 13:27:38 yes, section in the XG report 13:28:00 DKA: Landscape/Business/other? task forces will probably contribute chapters to end deliverables. 13:28:03 It is central to the XG's "view" on the world and its own work 13:28:06 Is there a need for a task force for Landscape when there are already plenty of sites covering social web? 13:28:06 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/99999/SocialWebXGCharter/results 13:28:08 q+ 13:28:15 Results of Task Force Questionnaire from March. 13:28:19 q? 13:28:24 ack karl 13:29:18 Karl: plenty of websites out there about the social web. Some business info, some development. Do we need yet another website for delivering information? 13:29:29 General results from questionnaire had "business" and "landscape" merge, and with "Distributed Architecture" and "Interoperability" merging as well, with context and user-experience kept separate. 13:29:38 What should be on the wiki? How do we select info to include? 13:30:00 zakim, unmute me 13:30:00 cperey should no longer be muted 13:30:14 hehe 13:30:49 Christine: for people in the group to decide what's included. She's not married to any particular structure. Should be technical and lead to us identifying areas that need more attention. 13:31:07 On the results of questionnaire, we had most popular task forces being 1) interoperability/distributed architecture 2) privacy and 3) user experience and 4) contextual data 13:31:20 Landscape can help us figure out if new technologies are needed, or maybe that no new technologies needed. 13:32:06 As most people seem to be interested in privacy, interop, etc, then perhaps not enough people interested in Landscape to do that work? 13:32:09 q+ 13:32:11 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the group will create a task force focusing on "landscape and business." Christine Perey to lead task force and edit task force report. 13:32:13 q? 13:32:28 Landscape would look at obstacles to growth of social web. 13:32:53 ack hh 13:32:54 The whole point of the XG is future W3C standardization. 13:32:57 What work is already being done which could be standardised? 13:32:57 + +1.510.931.aagg 13:33:05 zakim, mute me 13:33:05 cperey should now be muted 13:33:21 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:33:21 On the phone I see AdamB, ??P5, AlexPassant, tinkster (muted), FabGandon, wonsuk, karl, oshani (muted), dom (muted), jsalvachua (muted), mischat (muted), petef (muted), cperey 13:33:24 ... (muted), mischat.a, mischat_ (muted), pchampin (muted), uldis (muted), Julian, raphael (muted), +39.011.228.aaff, danbri, hhalpin, MacTed, +1.510.931.aagg 13:33:25 40/50 people telecons are not going to be productive, so task forces are almost a requirement. 13:33:35 How should it be dividided is the real question? 13:33:40 24 ppl on phone? 13:33:49 bblfish has joined #swxg 13:34:03 the deliverables of Task Forces could drive the themes 13:34:07 oops sorry for coming in late 13:34:11 The landscape stuff should be what the *entire* XG is looking at. It's other topics that want task forces. 13:34:21 Who's speaking now? DKA? 13:34:25 hhalpin: 13:34:28 Ta. 13:34:29 hhalpin speaking now 13:34:38 task forces should/would be focused on topics 13:34:47 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the group will three task forces: privacy; user experience and context. 13:34:49 Privacy seems to be very popular 13:35:13 Task forces for privacy, interop, another thing (anyone catch it?) 13:35:15 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the group will three task forces: privacy; user experience and context. Landscape will be a deliverable of the main working group. 13:35:21 Ah, DKA has. 13:35:32 mib_4d0quw9x has joined #swxg 13:35:37 Zakim, mute me 13:35:37 hhalpin should now be muted 13:35:46 From this structure, the landscape should organically emerge. 13:36:06 distributed architecture task force seems important too . 13:36:06 what about distributed/decentralized architectures? 13:36:15 DKA< there was a fourth too: distributed architectures and data portability 13:36:20 DKA has proposed a resolution to task forces. He agrees with hhalpin that Landscape is key. 13:36:25 Privacy, User Experience, Context, Distributed Architecture. 13:36:31 That's 4. Perhaps too many. 13:36:34 i think that interoperability and distributed may be interesting (merged) 13:36:36 Landscape still needs a leader even if it's being worked on by whole XG. 13:36:38 We could do a WBS Questionnaire. 13:36:41 not too many, if there are sufficient people 13:36:48 Landscape leader will be editor of final report deliverble. 13:36:51 no need to delay getting a poll now 13:36:52 +1 for merging distributed architecture and interoperability 13:37:13 zakim, mute me 13:37:13 cperey was already muted, cperey 13:37:16 Privacy, User Experience, Context, Distributed Architecture. 13:37:24 -> http://delicious.com/search?p=social%20web%20privacy Social Web Privacy on delicious 13:37:33 +q 13:37:34 Landscape=final deliverable? 13:37:38 ack jsa 13:37:40 CPerey, yes. 13:37:42 I can't scribe and put myself on the queue. 13:37:50 Miguel Martin wanted to do the distributed architecture 13:38:10 jsa: distributed architecture 13:38:16 Distributed Architecture + Portability. 13:38:17 it is of high interest 13:38:26 That's popular. 13:38:36 Joaquin salvachua :) 13:38:38 Joaquin. 13:38:40 small goals are achievable. 13:38:44 +Hakan 13:38:48 zakin, unmute me 13:38:58 if landscape / overview is a deliverable of the main group, will there be anyone focusing on it? that is, if we don't mention such a group (for landscape), who will work on it? 13:39:06 jsalvachua: reintroduces himself. Interested in running distrib arch and portability. 13:39:07 Landscape will be worked on by the editors. 13:39:12 I would be interested in working on that too, with jsvalchua 13:39:20 perfect petef :) 13:39:29 no 13:39:30 Privacy, User Exp, Context - leaders?... anyone? 13:39:32 So, in general, each of the task force will contribute use-cases and add technical details to technical document. 13:39:47 Then towards end of XG lifespan, we synthesize this work collectively. 13:39:48 Does is make sense to combine them. Mischa says no. 13:39:54 Into landscape. 13:39:59 Which is given by the final report. 13:40:00 hi Claudio! 13:40:12 claudio: interested in context, but what is the scope? 13:40:16 +q 13:40:24 q? 13:40:27 ack claudio 13:40:54 claudio: talking to Philip Oscar (?) to understand whether Telecom Italia (?) work might fit in here or another group. 13:41:31 The mission of this task force is to document those principles which the task force members believe to be the appropriate use & approaches to control of abuse of contextual data in social networks. One of the deliverables of this task force is a report mapping the current uses of context in social networking. A best practices guide could also be envisioned, 13:41:35 location, proximity 13:41:41 q+ regarding context 13:41:44 DKA: christine's notes mention context = location, proximity, more. 13:42:03 q? 13:42:05 What goes into context information? Mapping them to existing standards/vocabs. 13:42:13 For example of context, look at this: 13:42:14 ack reg 13:42:16 ack cont 13:42:21 q+ mischat 13:42:23 zakim, who is speaking? 13:42:33 petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P5 (9%), MacTed (35%) 13:42:40 http://www.w3.org/TR/dcontology/ 13:42:55 Wide scope of context - abuse of context info - is this better handled by privacy task force? 13:43:45 claudio is mostly interested in context as in device capabilities. 13:43:48 +1 13:43:53 ack mischat 13:43:55 zakim, unmute me 13:43:55 mischat was not muted, mischat 13:43:56 maybe think geolocation API, how does that work with an API like OpenSocial or Social Data? 13:44:08 mischat: people can hear him. 13:44:14 He's from Garlick. 13:44:32 Looked into life logging and working out autobiographies from web activity. 13:44:35 s/Garlick/Garlik 13:44:49 AlexPassant: I knew it was some kind of silly spelling. 13:44:53 ;-) 13:45:09 q+ Hakan 13:45:13 +1 13:45:14 Interesting = Analysis of photographs to figure out what people were doing at the time. 13:45:44 s/ AlexPassant:/ AlexPassant,/ 13:46:03 Misha refers to work from Mor Naarman, http://infolab.stanford.edu/~mor/ previously at Yahoo Berkeley now in New York 13:46:05 The real key is that likely all task-forces work will have to merge. 13:46:24 The entire point of the task forces is to get small enough groups to allow productive telecons to produce text. 13:46:37 zakim, unmuted me 13:46:37 I don't understand 'unmuted me', mischat 13:46:44 zakim, mute me 13:46:44 mischat should now be muted 13:46:44 for the deliverables and to have detailed technical conversations as well. 13:46:47 Can mischa lead a task force or edit a document about this? No, he's still working on PhD and that takes much of his time. But he'll add his thoughts about context to the wiki. 13:46:57