did you type that in?

<klaus> yep

why did it work for you and not me?

<klaus> donno

what did you type in? in quotes please

<klaus> /invite zakim

<klaus> without the leading space ;-)

zakim dismiss

<klaus> you neeed a "," after zakim's name

zakim leave

ok, we need more than one person on the chat room for these bots to come in to a chat room.... makes sense

hi Christine

<cperey> hello

glad you could make it... we exchanged emails some time today/yesterday...

<cperey> :-) I just replied

cool just got it... If you would like to part of the group let me know, ie if you relevance in today's meeting

<cperey> looks like fun

just leaning the system :)

learning rather

figure that someone should know how to use it :)

<cperey> yes, this is another (completely different) reason for me to attend

<cperey> we will kick off the SW XG and I want to have some "outside" experience!

I also have an injured wrist, so typing is a little challenging :/

uh huh.. are you co-chairing the SW XG?

<cperey> :-) no there are already 3 co-chairs! I have to balance my volunteer work with paying activities

ok cool

<cperey> no one pays for my time in W3C work

well it should be interesting to see how my first W3C Group goes

you come from a consulting background right?

<cperey> yes, I am an industry analyst (I conduct market research then sell it), entrepreneur, consultant/advisor

<cperey> do you have a URL where I can learn more about you?

uh - afraid not... i guess there are two brief ones that might help.... http://www.ict.csiro.au/staff/Amit.Parashar/

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/2/8b5/59a

they are very brief...

<cperey> funny! I can't grab them!

just click on them... what sort of client are you using?

<cperey> mIRC

well that should work

<cperey> terrible UI takes me back to 1970

<cperey> just one question

heh

sure

fire away

<cperey> you are chairing this XG

yup

<cperey> but you are also staff?>

co-chairing

<cperey> W3C staff? I was under the impression that XGs do not have "rights" to staff

not staff, i am part of the W3C team - I am part of the Offices team, as i manage the W3C Australia office in Australia

but I am employed by CSIRO

CSIRO hosts the W3C in Australia

I am doing this on behalf of my role in CSIRO

if that makes sense

so no, W3 employees are not helping :)

<cperey> OK. thanks!

<cperey> for the explanation

<cperey> I need to write something up before the meeting

<cperey> Who is going to type in the discussion into the IRC system?

probably me for the first meeting unless there is someone who volunteers to take minutes...

<cperey> you need an extra hand!!

<cperey> I'll fade into the background :-)

both my hands are injured, cycling accident :) - first day in a 1 year i did not wear gloves....

uh huh, that is what usually happens

<cperey> oh no! well, both my hands are in good working order, my ears as well

<cperey> if you want me to scribe I will, but I need to hear!!

no problems... I shall take the duties for today and manage that way... perhaps in the future I might take you up on that offer :)

<cperey> sounds food

<cperey> good

<cperey> have a good meeting

ok then, thanks for that

<scribe> scribe: Amit Parashar

<scribe> scribenick: amit

hi Manfred

<Manfred_DERI> hi amit

glad you could make it

<Manfred_DERI> dialing in at the moment

<Manfred_DERI> for me the time is nice - you guys suffer

<Manfred_DERI> :-)

still one hour to go right?

<Manfred_DERI> weren't we supposed to start in 2 min

<Manfred_DERI> its: 13:58 here

what conferences

no still one hour to go...

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=04&day=08&year=2009&hour=14&min=00&sec=0&p1=0

<Manfred_DERI> in the mail you sent around: 14:00 GMT

where are you based Manfred? Ireland?

<Manfred_DERI> I quite form your mail: " The first meeting has been scheduled for GMT 14:00 on the 8th of April."

<Manfred_DERI> I am in GMT

<Manfred_DERI> (Ireland)

looks like there is a difference betweek UTC and GMT

:-\

<Manfred_DERI> summer time? probably - we changed last week

I better send a note to the SSN-XG

<Manfred_DERI> so, probably you are right

are you able to come back in an hour?

bbs

<Manfred_DERI> yes, sure

great thanks, and sorry about the mix up

<Manfred_DERI> If I am the only one who made this mistake, then we are safe :-)

hopefully, I should have thought of that...

<Manfred_DERI> no worries :-)

this is the reason I sent the Link, it says 15:00 GMT is UTC...

ah well, at least we managed to get a time, let's hope everyone turns up...

its 11 pm, time for a coffee

ah hah! Current UTC (or GMT/Zulu)-time used: Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 14:00:00

UTC is Coordinated Universal Time, GMT is Greenwich Mean Time.

Great Britain/United Kingdom is one hour ahead of UTC during summer.

have you run W3C meetings before manfred?

<Manfred_DERI> no

<Manfred_DERI> just large EU projects

<Manfred_DERI> so, i know the pain of the organizer :-)

cool, used irc before?

thanks for sending me the link on doodle.com

<Manfred_DERI> not necessarily irc but other chats

<Manfred_DERI> doodle helps, - you'll see :-)

http://www.doodle.com/hky2bdpr469d8qtp

<hornsby> Hi everyone

<hornsby> its Adrian from Tampere University of Technology

g'day Adrian

great to see you could make it

<hornsby> thx, day to you too. Happy to be here

<hornsby> I guess the meeting will start in 30min, right ?

<amit_oz> yes that is correct adrian

<hornsby> ok

Hi Cory

Glad you could make it

<cory> Hello

<cory> Just testing the IRC

no worries

it's pretty simple

:0

:) rather

<cory> thanks

by the way Zakim and RSSAgent are Bot's they listen to commands and execute them

<hornsby> do we need to call too or IRC is enough? I have limited phone connectivity

<cory> oh, ok

for example, if you want to know what the agenda is, type in agenda?

<cory> I have a phone too, but I can just use IRC if more convenient for you

<cory> agenda

hornsby: it would be preferable, however you could type in your introduction, but the phone would be preferable

<hornsby> ok, I will remain on IRC, its really easier for me

<hornsby> ok

try it with ? after agenda

<hornsby> I will then try to call too

cory, you should dial in...

as you are representing amit sheth

having problems cory?

<cory> no, just needed to change computers

ok cool

evening Kerry :)

evening holger

<Kerry> hello Amit & holger!

welcome to IRC :)

<Holger> Hi!

<Kerry> has anyone phoned in yet?

not yet

<hornsby> nope

thanks zakim

who is here?

<Holger> I'm the first who phoned in...

<hornsby> this zakim is very interesting and polite :)

<Kerry> I am dialled in, as is amit & holger

<Kerry> I have a crying baby already, so I may not last..

rrsagent log

Kerry: From CSIRO - principal research scientist, thanks to Amit :)
... excited by the interest in the area.. lots of people interested.. personally been working interoperability for 15 years
... started working in formal logic with formal logic in 2000 and 2006 started working in SSN

<cory> At Kno.e.sis we are studying SSW so that we may be able to model, access, and reason over sensor data on the Web. We have generated an ontology based on the OGC-SWE O&M language, and hope there will be overlap with the goal of creating a sensors ontology.

Kerry: applied to Water and envrionmental agencies
... have participated in SWE (OGC) and interested in bring SSN

1. I would like to develop a list of use cases for the Ontology and though out the project be able to see our progress to satisfy use cases defined by the group

2. I would there to be integration with the semantic markup of SOS between what Amit Sheth and Cory are proposing and the ontology

3. I would like us to leverage existing efforts.

4. I think there is scope for the development of a state of the art or literature review of what has been done and what is good practice in the area

5. I think there is a need for us to manage Ontologies in a more sophisticated manner than we do right now, perhaps we can initiate the idea of Semantic Registeries or an OWL foundry

+q

<Amit_S> Amit Sheth joined on IRC

welcome

manfred: Vice director at DERI on the west coast of Ireland

<Manfred_DERI> Manfred (DERI, Ireland) speaker

manfred: DERI funded by science foundation of Ireland...
... Semantic is one of the cornerstones of the network, long track record in the area, semantic soa, web 2.0, semantic desktops...
... participated in large EU projects.
... looking at Sensors as a key source of information, working on semantic middleware
... have developed a non-semantic infrastructure known as global sensor network (/)
... we saw the need for semantic descriptions of data, sensors, infrastructures and the experiments that we do...
... we need to be able to abstract, and work in declarative ways...
... semantic registeries are a key cornerstone of this infrastructure...
... DERI participant has semantisized OGC standards...
... also working in particular project in the EU relating to sensors, (link to be sent to IRC)
... first steps are being taken to work with Semantics and WSN, both are meeting in this project

Kevin: works at Southampton University.. background in Semantic web tech

<Manfred_DERI> Enabling Networked Knowledge: http://www.deri.ie/fileadmin/documents/DERI-TR-2008-06-25.pdf

<Manfred_DERI> GSN: gsn.sourceforge.net

<Manfred_DERI> CONET: http://www.cooperating-objects.eu/

Kevin: working in various sensor projects... working in EU project SSG4N
... 6 months into the project
... looking at the various markups and what is happening in the semantic world

<Manfred_DERI> Semantic Reality: http://www.semanticreality.org/

<krp> Semantic Sensor Grid for the Environment http://www.semsorgrid4env.eu/

hornsby: research scientist in finland @ Tampere University of Technology
... mainly funded by Nokia, and part of the multi-media group
... WSN in the home environment, interested low power WSN...
... interested semantics, are familiar with OGC standards...and have exercised them in their projects...

Michael_: research scientist, background in logic...
... have developed the ontology with Holger - DRAFT version on the SSN-XG Wiki

Holger: Working in TasICT (CSIRO)
... applying the ontology to river management (water management) - sensor data being exposed via OGC SOS... enrich semantically
... may be feed our results back in to OGC

David: (AKA Al)
... working with Cory and Amit out of Wright State
... goal is to work with SWE to support self declaring sensors and senor systems
... and sensor fusion
... we are looking to develop best practice of SWE implementation across several communities

<Amit_S> +q

<Amit_S> Perhaps Cory can say what we are upto and I can add (since I am not on phone)

Amit_S: cory has done some introductions...

<Manfred_DERI> WWW, ISWC, ESWC, ASWC

Sensys...

as well

<Kerry> +q

adrian: discuss the objective of the charter

<michael_> +q

Kerry: on the charter- fav part of the charter is interoperability... impressed by DL and it's reasoning...

+q cory

scribe: developing a formal ontology to describe a list of sensors, and sensor network systems... to support interopability, not just in standardised ways... but in developing smarted reasoning software that can interoperate across a wide range of sensor systems..
... to assist in integration and fusion across sensor systems..
... also align with OGC and how to formalise between sensor networks and other infromation systems (eg the web)
... so that they are stable reliable robust etc...
... have a long terms reusable sensor networks... as a first step develop a sensor ontology...

<Kerry> list of things to do?

yes

Michael_: I wrote the charter with Amit Sheth... need to build an ontology to describe sensors, not necessarily all the sensors in the rest of the world
... discovery, abstraction, and then do some reasoning, eg temp in Canberra
... we can use the DL to help take the system from purpose built tool to some thing bigger, eg macro instrument
... we need use cases... and applications...

+q John

Cory: two main aspects on the Charter...one is ontology... the other is to look at SWE languages... and how these could be converted to semantic languages...
... we have been doing this with O&M (SOS?)

<Amit_S> we have developed for example SemSOS

Cory: we need to think about services as well, ie services with semantics... SA-REST SAWSDL

<Amit_S> the same broad principle of WSDL extension to SAWSDL and SARESt

link Amit?

<Amit_S> are being taken to SWE languages

<Amit_S> http://knoesis.wright.edu/library/resource.php?id=00596

John: John Graybeal - MBARI - California - focus on sensor observatories and networking for oceanography

<Amit_S> Cory just came back from 3month trip to Australia

<Amit_S> worked with CISRO on an app

John: began with interest in metadata, funded by NSF, created the marinemedata.org

<Amit_S> but also worked with I Melborne

<Amit_S> to couple their open source SWE implementation with our semantic extensions

<Amit_S> and we hope to make this open source shortly

<Amit_S> Cory-please add as appropriate on phone

John: created a platform ontology focusing on oceanography.. now focusing on device ontology... now have ontology catalogue...in alpha

<Kerry> lit review, tools/method for shared development, meeting times, face to face meeting, papers?, use cases (sensor examples), ontology development, list/references to use of our work (and similar other stuff too), ontology limitations, extnesions to SWE to use

<Kerry> the ontology

John: there is no correlation between human definition of devices and how they use them in a computational sense

<Manfred_DERI> May I propose to create a structured list of resources available from the participants in the incubator group? Following that, I think an assessment of the state-of-the-art would probably be advisable as the first step.

John: my interest here is to leverage all the work that we have done so far and see if we can make better progress, rather than working by themselves..

<Manfred_DERI> That helps us not to miss out on another group which probably should be in the group as well and we do not replicate work.

<Kerry> (+q

<Kerry> +q

+q Manfred

<scribe> ACTION: structured list - state of the art in the area (Manfred) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html#action01]

<Kerry> +q

<Kerry> great idea

<scribe> ACTION: leads to a roadmap document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html#action02]

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Semantic_Sensor_Network_Ontology

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/

amit: all member have write access to wiki and public read access

<Manfred_DERI> +q

Michael: are you interested in being the editor?

<michael_> sorry, me joining again - skype not very reliable

<hornsby> i can also assist if needed

<scribe> ACTION: John Graybeal to send content to Michael Compton; assistance to given by Manfred (and volunteers), [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html#action03]

<scribe> ACTION: Cory to follow up with Wright state group for the Semantic markup and services side of things [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html#action04]

actions?

amit: how long do we want to spend on this lit review?

Kerry: 6 weeks, i imagine,

John: longer number than i was anticipating, what is your ambition for this document?

Kerry: trying to be realistic, in terms of managing priorities...
... there is also a need to do research and it is a continuous editing role...

amit: any other comments on the length of state of the art...

adrian: what are the boundaries of this lit review?

Kerry: people should contribute the work they are working in and also what they are interested in...

<michael_> +q

Kerry: OGC, sensors and sensor ontologies...

michael: good to go?
... we have a document, and put all the bits that we all know of and put it on the wiki
... this would be a reasonable first step... and share what we have already all done

<michael_> yep

<Manfred_DERI> perfect

<adrian> yes

<coryh> sounds good

<Holger> ok

<scribe> ACTION: To all participants: contribute your interests, your work, and any other documents that you think is useful for this XG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html#action05]

<Manfred_DERI> we should switch to tying - nobody wants to talk :-)

<michael_> +1

<Manfred_DERI> +1

<krp> +1

<coryh> +1

<Kerry> +1

<Holger> +1

<adrian> +1 (leaving May 21 for holiday :))

<scribe> ACTION: Lit review comtributions to be completed by the 20th of May for review... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html#action06]

<adrian> +1

question: weekly meeings?

<Kerry> +1

<krp> +1

<michael_> +1

<coryh> +1

<Manfred_DERI> +1

<Holger> +1

<scribe> ACTION: group agrees to weekly meetings.. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html#action07]

<adrian> same time weekly ?

<Manfred_DERI> but please honor Easter vacation :-)

<krp> I'm off all next week

http://www.doodle.com/hky2bdpr469d8qtp

<adrian> this friday to monday :)

<krp> but could call in

<Manfred_DERI> I am back next wednesday but in a full day meeting

<michael_> mix up meeting time so it's not always 1am for us Aussies?

<Kerry> +q

Kerry: Propose 1 hour meetings... agreements as +1

<krp> +1

<adrian> +1

<Holger> +1

<coryh> +1

<Manfred_DERI> +1

<michael_> +1

<Kerry> +1

<scribe> ACTION: Group agrees to one hour meetings [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html#action08]

<Holger> ...there is still the mailing list for longer discussions...

<adrian> +1 (2 fixed time slot)

Kerry: propose that we pick two time slots, on different days for alternating people, sharing the terrible timings across the globe... we need to decide on meeting times...

<krp> +1

<Holger> +1

<Kerry> +1

<michael_> +1

<coryh> +1

<Manfred_DERI> +1

<Manfred_DERI> +q

via doodle or do it now?

<Manfred_DERI> doodle

<michael_> doodle

<Kerry> doodle

cool! :) thank god :)

<adrian> doodle (or regular fix time)

<scribe> ACTION: do this by doodle... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html#action09]

<krp> Doodle is only showing working hours for me

<krp> In general it'll be out of hours that are harder to schedule

http://www.doodle.com/hky2bdpr469d8qtp

use http://timeanddate.com/ to figure out local times in your region before nominating a time slot

<Manfred_DERI> can we wrap up - my next telephone conference starts in 4min :-)

<Manfred_DERI> thanks amit!!!

<coryh> bye

<michael_> thanks

<krp> Thanks, bye.

<adrian> thanks

<adrian> bye

thanks...

<Manfred_DERI> bye

thanks for coming this late at night Kerry and Mick :)

<michael_> -

no worries.

rssagent, draft minutes

strange I am not sleepy any more :)

rssagent, create minutes

rssagent, set logs world-visible

rssagent, draft minutes

thanks marie

<marie> amit, done i guess

ah, i was using rss rather than rrs :) makes sense now :)

<marie> here you go now :)

<marie> bye!

thanks

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Amit Parashar
Found ScribeNick: amit

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found, but dash separators were found.  
Defaulting to -dashTopics option.

Default Present: +036223aaaa, +1.937.775.aacc, Holger, +1.937.257.aadd, +3539149aaee, amit, Kerry, +0797376aaff, +1.650.450.aagg, +1.650.450.aahh
Present: +036223aaaa +1.937.775.aacc Holger +1.937.257.aadd +3539149aaee amit Kerry +0797376aaff +1.650.450.aagg +1.650.450.aahh
Got date from IRC log name: 08 Apr 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-ssn-minutes.html
People with action items: agrees comtributions cory do graybeal group john leads lit review structured to