IRC log of bpwg on 2009-03-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:27:12 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #bpwg

13:27:12 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-irc

13:27:14 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:27:14 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #bpwg

13:27:16 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be BPWG

13:27:16 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

13:27:17 [trackbot]

Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

13:27:17 [trackbot]

Date: 17 March 2009

13:27:39 [francois]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Mar/0112.html

13:27:41 [francois]

Chair: jo

13:28:45 [francois]

Regrets: adam, abel, miguel, manrique

13:29:30 [jo]

zakim, code?

13:29:30 [Zakim]

the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo

13:30:03 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has now started

13:30:10 [Zakim]

+ +0208995aaaa

13:30:21 [Zakim]

+francois

13:30:22 [jo]

zakim, aaaa is me

13:30:23 [Zakim]

+jo; got it

13:30:59 [Zakim]

+??P2

13:31:04 [tomhume]

zakim, ??P2 is me

13:31:04 [Zakim]

+tomhume; got it

13:31:33 [rob]

rob has joined #bpwg

13:32:18 [Zakim]

+Bryan_Sullivan

13:32:37 [Bryan]

Bryan has joined #bpwg

13:32:53 [Zakim]

+rob

13:34:22 [EdC]

EdC has joined #bpwg

13:34:34 [Zakim]

+??P6

13:34:41 [yeliz]

zakim, ??P6 is yeliz

13:34:41 [Zakim]

+yeliz; got it

13:35:07 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

13:35:07 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

13:35:10 [Zakim]

+dstorey

13:36:20 [jo]

ack tom

13:36:31 [francois]

Scribe: tomhume

13:36:34 [francois]

ScribeNick: tomhume

13:36:48 [tomhume]

Topic: F2F London 25-27 March

13:36:56 [francois]

-> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Meetings/London3/logistics.html F2F agenda

13:37:40 [tomhume]

jo: Idea is to spend Wednesday on MWABP, Thursday on CT, tidying up on Friday

13:37:56 [tomhume]

... including tidying up remaining mobile accessibility issues, checker library, etc.

13:38:12 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

13:38:12 [Zakim]

yeliz should no longer be muted

13:38:44 [tomhume]

yeliz: will be there on Friday

13:38:56 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

13:38:56 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

13:39:22 [tomhume]

jo: we have mobileOK scheme

13:39:34 [tomhume]

francois: not heard from Rigo, hope to have something by the F2F

13:39:44 [dom]

Regrets+ Dom

13:39:48 [tomhume]

jo: need to ping Korean folks for a written update

13:39:52 [EdC]

three questions about the agenda: (1) are the times indicated local UK time? (2) any detailed schedule? (3) numbers for teleconference?

13:40:51 [tomhume]

bryan: I shan't be there in person, conf call bridge would be good.

13:41:17 [jo]

ACTION: JO to talk to Adam about getting a conf bridge set up for f2f

13:41:17 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-915 - Talk to Adam about getting a conf bridge set up for f2f [on Jo Rabin - due 2009-03-24].

13:41:39 [tomhume]

francois: will ping Rigo

13:42:08 [EdC]

q+

13:42:26 [jo]

ack ed

13:42:36 [tomhume]

jo: times of the agenda are in GMT

13:43:04 [jo]

zakim, who is making noise?

13:43:06 [Zakim]

-yeliz

13:43:16 [Zakim]

jo, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: jo (30%), francois (47%)

13:43:29 [SeanP]

SeanP has joined #bpwg

13:43:38 [Zakim]

-francois

13:44:29 [Zakim]

+SeanP

13:44:35 [tomhume]

Topic: mobileOK Checker - discussion of file: scheme URIs

13:45:18 [Zakim]

+francois

13:45:26 [tomhume]

jo: Adam's issued 2 new drafts for MWABP

13:46:09 [Zakim]

+??P8

13:46:14 [yeliz]

zakim, ??P8 is yeliz

13:46:14 [Zakim]

+yeliz; got it

13:46:25 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

13:46:25 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

13:46:28 [jo]

zakim, mute yeliz

13:46:28 [Zakim]

yeliz was already muted, jo

13:47:14 [tomhume]

francois: the mobileOK checker libraries only apply to HTTP/HTTPS URI schemes. There could be a useful use case where you want to run tests on a file. Most web content is local before it's published.

13:47:28 [yeliz]

sorry about the echo, it seems like there is something wrong with my connection today :(

13:47:46 [tomhume]

...you might want to check it before you publish it. Some of the tests do not mean anything outside of HTTP(S), some do and are useful - e.g. page size

13:49:00 [tomhume]

...Yeliz can probably talk about it, I wanted to update the checker library and add the possibility to check files. We've discussed a little on the checker mailing lists and have some ideas for how to add support for file:// URIs. It would mean that the library contains code that is not defined in the standard, in particular an additional test outcome ("CANNOTTELL")

13:49:45 [tomhume]

...but it's not mobileOK if it's not in the standard, as Jo has pointed out. The Java library is supposed to be a reference implementation of the standard, so I don't know if we can extend it with something outside of the standard.

13:50:22 [tomhume]

...We wanted to get the WGs opinion. Do we need to duplicate the code and work on a separate version of the library? Or can we incorporate the changes and add file:// scheme support to the library?

13:50:37 [Bryan]

q+ why not run a local server (http://localhost) instead - this is easy?

13:50:38 [tomhume]

... We might want to issue another document explaining how to test file://

13:51:04 [Bryan]

q+ to why not run a local server (http://localhost) instead - this is easy?

13:51:07 [EdC]

Can you parameterize the library with a switch for "standard mobileOK" and "development mode"? Via a configuration file, for instance?

13:51:44 [tomhume]

... I think it's useful for us to go ahead with this. Abel proposed to write the WG Note. I'm not sure we need to do this.

13:51:52 [tomhume]

jo: I agree

13:51:56 [jo]

ack b

13:51:57 [Zakim]

Bryan, you wanted to why not run a local server (http://localhost) instead - this is easy?

13:52:27 [tomhume]

bryan: a consistent scheme is a good idea. All you can do with file:// is check a static page, which isn't very common in terms of real live applications

13:52:48 [tomhume]

jo: the point about mobileOK is that it tests the operation of your server when serving content - i.e. in the real world.

13:52:56 [tomhume]

bryan: that's my point

13:53:04 [jo]

ack yeli

13:53:07 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

13:53:07 [Zakim]

yeliz was not muted, yeliz

13:54:15 [tomhume]

yeliz: we want to combine the mobileOK library with another for validating documents. It would be good to use some of the mobileOK tests with local files. This could be used for other people (e.g. designers) wanting to check documents before they upload them. e.g. the HTML validator lets you upload and validate a doc.

13:54:49 [tomhume]

... you can't do all the tests, but a CANNOTTELL would accommodate this.

13:55:18 [jo]

zakim, mute yeliz

13:55:18 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

13:55:46 [jo]

ack y

13:56:15 [jo]

zakim, mute yeliz

13:56:15 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

13:56:24 [yeliz]

sorry about the echo:(

13:56:54 [Zakim]

-tomhume

13:56:57 [francois]

q+

13:57:30 [EdC]

question: is the file:// scheme used in some Web applications to access the local storage?

13:57:38 [jo]

jo: wondering if there is a way of leaving the reference implementation intact and dealing with file: scheme by subclassing?

13:58:05 [Zakim]

+??P11

13:58:38 [jo]

zakim, ??p11 is tomhume

13:58:38 [Zakim]

+tomhume; got it

13:58:40 [Bryan]

fyi I have to go on IRC only for the next hour - will be back asap

13:59:18 [tomhume]

tomhume has joined #bpwg

13:59:29 [jo]

ack f

14:00:13 [tomhume]

francois: I had the same idea - we could do this without altering the ref. implementation. There are a couple of things we can do, but it can't be done completely by subclassing.

14:00:39 [EdC]

question: is the file:// scheme used in some Web applications to access the local storage? If yes, shouldn't the scheme be dealt with in the test harness?

14:00:44 [tomhume]

...I would like to keep the ref. implementation clean

14:00:52 [Zakim]

-Bryan_Sullivan

14:01:30 [tomhume]

ed: if file:/// is used by web applications, the harness should handle it surely?

14:01:45 [tomhume]

jo: mobileOK only tests http(s) URIs

14:03:36 [jo]

ACTION: daoust to prepare some material for F2F identifying what changes would be needed to the mobileOK checker to allow subclassing for file: scheme handling

14:03:36 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-916 - Prepare some material for F2F identifying what changes would be needed to the mobileOK checker to allow subclassing for file: scheme handling [on François Daoust - due 2009-03-24].

14:04:11 [tomhume]

jo: if XXXX would like to write a note, we'd be happy for them to do it

14:04:29 [jo]

s/XXXX/Miguel and Nacho/

14:04:30 [tomhume]

francois: maybe we should make sure they're not working on something we might abandon first...

14:04:48 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

14:04:48 [Zakim]

yeliz should no longer be muted

14:04:58 [francois]

s/Miguel and Nacho/Abel, Miguel and Nacho/

14:05:11 [tomhume]

yeliz: what's involved in writing a note about this?

14:05:19 [jo]

zakim, mute yeliz

14:05:19 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

14:05:33 [EdC]

14:05:46 [tomhume]

jo: the idea would be to write a WG Note (informative doc, not recommendation) pointing out the differences in the tests

14:06:04 [yeliz]

yes, thanks

14:06:06 [yeliz]

:)

14:06:20 [tomhume]

Topic: CT Guidelines New Version

14:06:43 [tomhume]

jo: new version posted on Friday 13th. Francois has noted some typos - thankyou - and there are lots of outstanding issues, which I've yet to post.

14:06:44 [francois]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Mar/0103.html CT announcement by Jo

14:06:53 [tomhume]

... these will hopefully get out today/soon

14:07:11 [tomhume]

... unless anyone has anything to say about this now, we should defer til next week

14:07:29 [tomhume]

... (at the F2F). Sean, Rob? You may want to comment on HTTPS link rewriting or link rewriting

14:07:31 [SeanP]

q+

14:07:40 [jo]

ack s

14:07:42 [tomhume]

rob: happy to keep that for the list

14:07:48 [tomhume]

seanP: I need to look it over a bit

14:08:40 [tomhume]

jo: hoping to resolve this issue (the main outstanding one, tho there are others we need to go back on, in particular Eduardo's point re changing/replacing headers)

14:08:53 [tomhume]

ed: happy to deal with this and the other topics next week

14:09:01 [francois]

[I note I'll have a bit to report on X-Device-headers next week based on a discussion with IETF]

14:10:33 [jsmanrique]

jsmanrique has joined #bpwg

14:11:29 [tomhume]

francois: are you thinking we misunderstood what a document reference is?

14:11:47 [francois]

s/document reference/same-document reference

14:11:48 [tomhume]

jo: either I've misunderstood what they mean or it doesn't quite work

14:12:27 [tomhume]

Topic: BP Addendum - Next Steps

14:12:31 [jeffs]

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14:12:36 [tomhume]

jo: the poll said no-one was happy for it to advance to a WG Note

14:13:07 [tomhume]

... so there's more work to do. Kai's not on the call today. I've scheduled half a days editorial session on this on Friday pm

14:13:15 [tomhume]

... we need to check Kai will be there for that

14:13:58 [Zakim]

+??P55

14:14:14 [jeffs]

zakim, P55 is jeffs

14:14:14 [Zakim]

sorry, jeffs, I do not recognize a party named 'P55'

14:14:26 [tomhume]

jo: the November questionnaire hasn't been answered much

14:14:28 [francois]

q+

14:14:30 [jeffs]

zakim, ??P55 is jeffs

14:14:30 [Zakim]

+jeffs; got it

14:14:39 [jo]

ack f

14:14:41 [tomhume]

francois: we only have 1 day left to answer the poll

14:14:49 [Bryan]

jo, post the questionairre link please

14:15:07 [tomhume]

jo: wondering if more folks can attend the F2F if it's not in San Diego

14:15:29 [Bryan]

I prefer San Diego!

14:15:31 [tomhume]

... can we reopen this questionnaire with the additional answer "I could attend if it's elsewhere"

14:15:56 [Zakim]

+berrueta

14:15:57 [EdC]

"if it's elsewhere" is really a bit vague. Most answers will be "I do not know"...

14:16:22 [jo]

q+

14:16:34 [jo]

ack jo

14:17:03 [tomhume]

jo: if we're to extend the charter we need another F2F. It'll either need to be there, or somewhere else.

14:19:05 [jo]

action: daoust to extend the TPAC Noc Questionnaire and add a question to assess whether the meeting would be better attended if it was held somewhere else

14:19:05 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-917 - Extend the TPAC Noc Questionnaire and add a question to assess whether the meeting would be better attended if it was held somewhere else [on François Daoust - due 2009-03-24].

14:19:36 [tomhume]

jo: there won't be a call next Tuesday because of the F2F and we don't usually have calls post-F2F unless someone wants one. So no call on 31.03

14:19:58 [EdC]

You mean 7th of April...

14:20:03 [tomhume]

... We will be back to normal time for everyone on 7 April.

14:20:17 [tomhume]

Topic: AOB

14:20:44 [Bryan]

jo, can you post the questionairre link, I can't find it on the BPWG homepage

14:20:47 [Zakim]

-jo

14:20:48 [Zakim]

-SeanP

14:20:48 [Zakim]

-tomhume

14:20:48 [jeffs]

bye

14:20:49 [Zakim]

-rob

14:20:53 [Zakim]

-francois

14:20:53 [jeffs]

quit

14:20:54 [rob]

rob has left #bpwg

14:20:55 [Zakim]

-yeliz

14:20:56 [Zakim]

-jsmanrique

14:20:59 [Bryan]

oh well

14:21:00 [Zakim]

-jeffs

14:21:02 [jsmanrique]

bye

14:21:18 [Zakim]

-dstorey

14:21:20 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended

14:21:21 [Zakim]

Attendees were +0208995aaaa, francois, jo, tomhume, Bryan_Sullivan, rob, yeliz, dstorey, SeanP, jeffs, jsmanrique

14:21:22 [francois]

and will update the WG home page to link to it, yes.

14:21:57 [francois]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:21:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-minutes.html francois

14:34:09 [Sangwhan_Moon]

Sangwhan_Moon has joined #bpwg

14:40:26 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has now started

14:40:33 [Zakim]

+Kai_Dietrich

14:42:20 [Zakim]

-Kai_Dietrich

14:42:21 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended

14:42:21 [Zakim]

Attendees were Kai_Dietrich

14:42:55 [Sangwhan_Moon]

Sangwhan_Moon has left #bpwg

15:01:03 [francois]

RRSAgent, bye

15:01:03 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-actions.rdf :

15:01:03 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JO to talk to Adam about getting a conf bridge set up for f2f [1]

15:01:03 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-irc#T13-41-17

15:01:03 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: daoust to prepare some material for F2F identifying what changes would be needed to the mobileOK checker to allow subclassing for file: scheme handling [2]

15:01:03 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-irc#T14-03-36

15:01:03 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: daoust to extend the TPAC Noc Questionnaire and add a question to assess whether the meeting would be better attended if it was held somewhere else [3]

15:01:03 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-irc#T14-19-05

15:01:06 [francois]

Zakim, bye

15:01:06 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #bpwg