IRC log of svg on 2009-01-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 19:34:41 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #svg
- 19:34:41 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/19-svg-irc
- 19:34:43 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 19:34:43 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #svg
- 19:34:45 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
- 19:34:45 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 4 minutes ago
- 19:34:46 [trackbot]
- Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
- 19:34:46 [trackbot]
- Date: 19 January 2009
- 19:35:16 [Zakim]
- GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
- 19:35:23 [Zakim]
- +??P0
- 19:35:27 [heycam]
- Zakim, ??P0 is me
- 19:35:27 [Zakim]
- +heycam; got it
- 19:36:38 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 19:36:40 [Zakim]
- -heycam
- 19:36:42 [Zakim]
- +heycam
- 19:36:58 [anthony]
- Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
- 19:36:58 [Zakim]
- +anthony; got it
- 19:38:01 [ed]
- ed has joined #svg
- 19:38:55 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 19:39:04 [ed]
- Zakim, ??P2 is me
- 19:39:04 [Zakim]
- +ed; got it
- 19:39:29 [ed]
- Zakim, who's here?
- 19:39:29 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see heycam, anthony, ed
- 19:39:30 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see ed, Zakim, RRSAgent, heycam, anthony, ed_work, trackbot
- 19:47:00 [heycam]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0050.html
- 19:47:44 [ed]
- scribe: erik
- 19:47:47 [ed]
- scribeNick: ed
- 19:47:51 [ed]
- chair: heycam
- 19:48:05 [ed]
- Topic: ISSUE-2201
- 19:48:09 [ed]
- ISSUE-2201+
- 19:48:12 [ed]
- ISSUE-2201?
- 19:48:12 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2201 -- Return value of SVGAnimationElement.getStartTime unclear -- OPEN
- 19:48:12 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2201
- 19:48:32 [heycam]
- http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartTime-return-value
- 19:49:39 [ed]
- CMC: wasn't sure if we decided if we return a value for the interval if it wasn't active at the moment (so the next interval)
- 19:50:31 [ed]
- ED: just wondering which is more intuitive to authors
- 19:50:40 [ed]
- AG: what does batik do?
- 19:50:54 [ed]
- CMC: think something slightly different, actually returns NaN
- 19:51:50 [ed]
- ...Opera currently will do the current interval whether if it's active or not
- 19:52:57 [ed]
- ...if we returned the start time of the current interval if they're not active scripts could still compare that against the document time to determine if that's active or not
- 19:53:23 [ed]
- ...don't mind either way
- 19:53:38 [ed]
- AG: do we want to wait for jwatt to have his opinion?
- 19:53:47 [ed]
- CMC: brian brought up the discussion originally
- 19:54:10 [ed]
- ...he also asked on svg-developers if anyone used this, and what they thought
- 19:54:23 [ed]
- ...no replies yet
- 19:57:09 [ed]
- ED: it may be that sometimes it's tricky to time the call such that the getStartTime is when the interval is active, and you might expect to get something instead of an exception if the next interval is computed
- 19:57:26 [ed]
- CMC: what about the duration one?
- 19:58:06 [ed]
- ED: that's getSimpleDuration, so the name says pretty much what it does
- 19:58:51 [ed]
- CMC: difficult do decide given that there's other timing things that are not exposed
- 19:59:57 [ed]
- ...given that we can expose a bit more information by having it return the current interval and that you can compare against the documenttime, and that you can call it on beginevent, it should be safe to du the "current interval"
- 20:00:24 [ed]
- AG: i'm fine with that, opera would have to change?
- 20:01:04 [ed]
- ED: yes, to raise the exception
- 20:01:48 [ed]
- ACTION: heycam to change the http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartTime-return-value erratum to use "current interval" and to move the item to proposed
- 20:01:48 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2407 - Change the http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartTime-return-value erratum to use \"current interval\" and to move the item to proposed [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-01-26].
- 20:02:10 [ed]
- Topic: ISSUE-2199
- 20:02:15 [ed]
- ISSUE-2199?
- 20:02:16 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2199 -- Underlying transform value erratum now conflicts with 1.2T -- RAISED
- 20:02:16 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2199
- 20:02:24 [heycam]
- http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#cleanup-wording-underlying-value
- 20:02:39 [ed]
- CMC: i've updated this to bring in the text in 1.2T
- 20:03:03 [ed]
- ...copied the text and changed some links from SMIL to SMIL Animation
- 20:03:35 [ed]
- ...I've brought it back to draft to review it again
- 20:03:51 [ed]
- AG: doesn't look like a big behavioural change
- 20:04:45 [ed]
- CMC: it's not really explicit in the text, but this text implies that when you're doing the scale transofrmation animation and the scale is zero (like in a to animation and you need to know the starting value)
- 20:05:15 [ed]
- ...it's not explicit in tiny 1.2 either anymore
- 20:05:23 [ed]
- ...we used to have a table
- 20:05:33 [ed]
- ...but was removed before moving to CR
- 20:05:51 [ed]
- ...based on comments from DOH
- 20:06:14 [ed]
- AG: wasn't much in the spec before anyway
- 20:06:24 [ed]
- CMC: yes, this was rather undefined
- 20:06:41 [ed]
- ...no tests in the 1.1 testsuite that rely on the underlaying value
- 20:06:53 [ed]
- AG: I've no problem changing that to proposed
- 20:07:35 [ed]
- ED: one thing I was wondering about was if the references affects this at all
- 20:08:13 [ed]
- CMC: the first link there is just describing the from-to calculation
- 20:09:15 [ed]
- ED: right, this is probably close enough
- 20:09:28 [ed]
- ...and good to use similar wording
- 20:09:51 [ed]
- CMC: how do we do tests for errata items?
- 20:10:32 [ed]
- AG: we should add tests in the 1.1F2/tests/svg directory going forward
- 20:10:47 [ed]
- CMC: we'll have to release the testsuite again, right?
- 20:10:55 [ed]
- AG: right
- 20:11:37 [ed]
- CMC: so maybe we could publish the second edition spec along with a new snapshot of the testsuite
- 20:11:51 [heycam]
- http://www.w3.org/2003/01/test-cases/text-intro-06-t.svg
- 20:11:56 [ed]
- ED: that sounds good yes
- 20:12:38 [ed]
- CMC: the links should point to the right place though, they don't currently
- 20:12:46 [ed]
- ...we should move the old tests over
- 20:14:01 [ed]
- ACTION: heycam to create a test for http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#cleanup-wording-underlying-value (check if we have a test for it in the 1.2T testsuite) and then move the erratum to proposed
- 20:14:01 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2408 - Create a test for http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#cleanup-wording-underlying-value (check if we have a test for it in the 1.2T testsuite) and then move the erratum to proposed [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-01-26].
- 20:17:08 [ed]
- Topic: ISSUE-2103?
- 20:17:13 [ed]
- ISSUE-2103?
- 20:17:14 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2103 -- i18n comment 3: Inline -progression typo -- CLOSED
- 20:17:14 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2103
- 20:17:31 [ed]
- Topic: ISSUE-2203
- 20:17:37 [ed]
- ISSUE-2203?
- 20:17:37 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2203 -- color-profile "local" IDL attribute erratum incorrect -- RAISED
- 20:17:37 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2203
- 20:17:55 [heycam]
- http://www.w3.org/mid/20090116032239.GB3580@arc.mcc.id.au
- 20:17:59 [ed]
- CMC: this was raised by me a while ago
- 20:18:09 [ed]
- ...I think i was incorrect in raising it
- 20:18:37 [ed]
- ...it was for the IDL and there's an attribute named "_local"
- 20:18:47 [ed]
- ...and "local" is a keyword in IDL
- 20:18:55 [ed]
- ...so the underscore is actually needed
- 20:18:59 [ed]
- ...like the comment said
- 20:19:40 [ed]
- ED: ok, let's remove the errata item
- 20:19:54 [ed]
- CMC: yes, that's probably safe to do
- 20:20:56 [ed]
- ACTION: AG to remove the color-profile "local" IDL attribute erratum for SVG 1.1 (addressing ISSUE-2203)
- 20:20:56 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2409 - Remove the color-profile \"local\" IDL attribute erratum for SVG 1.1 (addressing ISSUE-2203) [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-01-26].
- 20:21:39 [ed]
- Topic: www-svg feedback
- 20:21:44 [heycam]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0024.html
- 20:22:28 [ed]
- CMC: for these methods what happens if you call them before the timeline is started
- 20:23:47 [ed]
- ED: so I think I was able to answer his first question about animationsPaused
- 20:23:56 [ed]
- ...though we could possibly clarify it
- 20:24:24 [ed]
- CMC: for beginElementAt
- 20:25:02 [ed]
- ...we should add the offset to time zero I think
- 20:25:21 [ed]
- AG: yes, makes it less confusing I think
- 20:25:34 [ed]
- CMC: would be consistent to do it that way I think
- 20:26:54 [ed]
- ...my suggestion would be if you did "beginElementAt(5)" it would be five seconds after the document timeline started, not from when it was called if it was called before the timeline started
- 20:27:19 [Zakim]
- -anthony
- 20:27:24 [ed]
- ED: that would probably be the most intuitive yes
- 20:27:44 [ed]
- CMC: and then we'd get the timelineBegin from 1.2T if you wanted to start the timeline earlier
- 20:27:53 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 20:28:11 [anthony]
- Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
- 20:28:11 [Zakim]
- +anthony; got it
- 20:28:26 [ed]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0029.html
- 20:28:59 [ed]
- CMC: it's a bit weird to fix up the starttime to be some negative time
- 20:29:38 [ed]
- ...that's jwatts suggestion to run the animation before the timeline has started
- 20:31:08 [ed]
- ED: the ElementTimeControl API is slightly different in 1.2T, something to note
- 20:32:17 [ed]
- ...IMHO it's a bit strange to not look at 1.2T when implementing SVG SMIL support from scratch
- 20:33:23 [ed]
- ACTION: heycam to reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0024.html to say what we decided and that we've made erratum for it
- 20:33:23 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2410 - Reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0024.html to say what we decided and that we've made erratum for it [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-01-26].
- 20:34:17 [heycam]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0026.html
- 20:34:38 [ed]
- Topic: animate-elem-82-t query, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0026.html
- 20:35:10 [ed]
- CMC: brian points out that this test was copied over from 1.1, but it relied on the behaviour that we changed in 1.2T based on DOH's comments
- 20:35:23 [ed]
- AG: this test has always had issues related to it
- 20:35:28 [ed]
- ...was it even approved?
- 20:35:32 [ed]
- CMC: does say so
- 20:36:06 [ed]
- ...presumably we've changed the definition of paced to something we're happy with in tiny
- 20:36:23 [ed]
- ...and this test should be removed and/or changed from the tiny 1.2 testsuite at least
- 20:36:42 [ed]
- ...but should we also look at changing what's in 1.1?
- 20:36:47 [ed]
- ...or just leave it
- 20:37:57 [ed]
- CMC: opera does the 1.2T way right?
- 20:38:30 [ed]
- ED: since this issue went back and forth a number of times I'm not sure if we decided to hold off on changing anything
- 20:38:52 [ed]
- CMC: this test in the 1.2T testsuite, we should eitehr change it or remove it
- 20:39:30 [ed]
- ...only some subtests rely on the pacing, don't know which
- 20:41:05 [ed]
- ACTION: review 1.2T/tests/animate-elem-82-t.svg and make sure the positions are correct for the paced animations, and move the test back to draft/unapproved for now
- 20:41:05 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - review
- 20:41:12 [ed]
- ACTION: ED to review 1.2T/tests/animate-elem-82-t.svg and make sure the positions are correct for the paced animations, and move the test back to draft/unapproved for now
- 20:41:12 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2411 - Review 1.2T/tests/animate-elem-82-t.svg and make sure the positions are correct for the paced animations, and move the test back to draft/unapproved for now [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-01-26].
- 20:42:21 [ed]
- Topic: testsuite
- 20:42:38 [ed]
- AG: haven't started writing the xslt stylesheet yet
- 20:42:51 [ed]
- ACTION-2385
- 20:43:24 [ed]
- AG: most things can be copied across, but some empty fields need to be filled out
- 20:43:40 [ed]
- CMC: so once that's done the testsuite will be in good shape for adding tests to it
- 20:44:04 [ed]
- AG: you can do that now anyway, we can make the xsl look for certain elements and only change tose
- 20:44:18 [ed]
- CMC: we haven't copied over the tests yet have we?
- 20:44:20 [ed]
- AG: we did
- 20:44:29 [ed]
- ...but they're still using the old template
- 20:44:51 [ed]
- ...i've been organizing the last bits of the f2f, so I'll have more time this week to look at it
- 20:45:48 [ed]
- ...if anyone wants to make a new test just use the new template
- 20:46:36 [anthony]
- http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/templates/
- 20:47:26 [ed]
- ...there are some new fields
- 20:47:41 [ed]
- ...the testdescription field allows references to the spec to be put in
- 20:47:49 [ed]
- ...and which parts of the spec is being tested
- 20:48:05 [ed]
- ...and because multiple parts can be tested you can put multiple references
- 20:48:14 [ed]
- ...tehre's a field for pass criteria
- 20:48:48 [ed]
- ...the approved attribute has been removed, it's only using status now
- 20:50:06 [ed]
- CMC: does testdescription need to be there?
- 20:50:10 [ed]
- AG: probably not
- 20:50:39 [ed]
- ...will give an example
- 20:51:40 [anthony]
- http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/text-tspan-02-b.svg
- 20:55:18 [ed]
- ED: what about future specs, we might not have a full absolute link?
- 20:55:25 [ed]
- AG: good point
- 20:55:53 [ed]
- ...we could make an xslt for publication
- 20:57:01 [ed]
- ED: we already put some spec links into the harness, based on naming convention
- 20:58:19 [ed]
- AG: that's based on sectionnames, so with xlink:href you can point to a specific place in the spec
- 20:58:58 [Zakim]
- -heycam
- 20:58:59 [Zakim]
- -ed
- 20:59:00 [Zakim]
- -anthony
- 20:59:02 [Zakim]
- GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
- 20:59:02 [Zakim]
- Attendees were heycam, anthony, ed
- 20:59:07 [ed]
- Zakim, bye
- 20:59:07 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #svg
- 20:59:12 [ed]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 20:59:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/19-svg-minutes.html ed
- 22:22:40 [heycam]
- heycam has joined #svg