See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 18 December 2008
<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon
<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper
<scribe> meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon: 18 Dec 2008
<KFord> zakimm +1.425.883.3343 is Kelly Ford
Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use
44-117-370-6152
AllanJ: Happy Holidays!zakim, close item 1
<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20081209/results
Proposed: user agent user interface (non-Web-Based) Any components of a user agent user interface that runs directly on a non-user agent platform such as Windows, MacOS, Java Virtual Machine, etc. Base browsers are always non-Web-Based.
Results: (Accept 2 / Discuss 4) - What happens when the UI is generated from web content? x 2 / Clarify x 2
<AllanJ> other proposal: <proposed>
<AllanJ> User-Agent user interface (non-Web-Based): Any components of a user agent user interface that runs directly on an operating system, such as Windows, MacOS, Java Virtual Machine, etc. <br />
<AllanJ> Base browsers are always non-Web-Based.
<AllanJ> </proposed>
AllanJ: Email Exchange with Gregg Vanderheiden (starting at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008OctDec/0078.html)
<jeanne> + 1 to Jim's proposal.
<jeanne> I would like to add mobile OS to the list.
<AllanJ> sharper: perhaps, components not generated from content...
<AllanJ> JS: seems circular
<AllanJ> JR: browsers render content. they provide an interface to the content.
<AllanJ> sharper: what about components outside the dom
<AllanJ> JR: scenario, FF have a kernel that runs on windows, that renders itself, then renders extensions, then adds components from content
<AllanJ> KF: what if the browser runs something in a sandbox, activex control, that separate from the OS
All: Thinking Out Loud (moving through 'what if' scenarios)
<AllanJ> ...this is possible, many want to do this, eliminates lots of security problems
<AllanJ> JR: back to definition
<AllanJ> ...have WCAG20, it applies to web-based tools
JR: Need this definition to
define tools that WCAG can be applied to and tools that it
can't.
... What about using user agents that are Web applications and
ones that aren't
AllanJ: need to also better
define User Agent - which may resolve these definitions of Web
Based and Non-Web Based.
... Glossary is Normative
Judy: Do we have an open item on Glossary cross-checking?
<AllanJ> issue: WAI glossary, coordinate between WCAG, ATAG, UAAG
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-26 - WAI glossary, coordinate between WCAG, ATAG, UAAG ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/26/edit .
JR: I think I have an Action to do - done already earlier this week for ATAG
<JR> ACTION: JR, JA to propose new wording for web-based, non-web-based using "Web Application" - UAAG and ATAG versions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - JR,
<jeanne> ACTION: JR tp JR, JA to propose new wording for web-based, non-web-based using "Web Application" - UAAG and ATAG versions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - Tp JR, JA to propose new wording for web-based, non-web-based using \"Web Application\" - UAAG and ATAG versions [on Jan Richards - due 2008-12-25].
RESOLUTION: JR / AllanJ to address this as part of actions across WCAG, ATAG, UAAG.
item: Proposed definition for "Web-based"
RESOLUTION: Again JR / AllanJ to address this as part of actions across WCAG, ATAG, UAAG.
Judy: need a rationale for 2.1.6 to justify A and not AA
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update UAAG to assign level A for 2.1.1, 2.1.2, 2.1.3, 2.1.4, 2.1.6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - Update UAAG to assign level A for 2.1.1, 2.1.2, 2.1.3, 2.1.4, 2.1.6 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-25].
All: Short discussion to formulate this.
ITEM: Rationale / explanation for 2.1.6 for say font-family needed for future developers (how are we considering capturing this kind of thing)
ISSUE: Rationale / explanation for 2.1.6 for say font-family needed for future developers (how are we considering capturing this kind of thing)
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-27 - Rationale / explanation for 2.1.6 for say font-family needed for future developers (how are we considering capturing this kind of thing) ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/27/edit .
AllanJ: Should we use font or font-family?
Alan: Typeface?
Fonts in CSS: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html
More http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#generic-font-families
<Alan> n typography, a typeface is a set of one or more letters, in one or more font sizes, designed with stylistic unity, each comprising a coordinated set of glyphs. A typeface usually comprises an alphabet of letters, numerals, and punctuation marks; it may also include ideograms and symbols, or consist entirely of them, for example, mathematical or map-making symbols. The term typeface is...
<AllanJ> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font_family
<Alan> ...frequently conflated with font; the two terms had more clearly differentiated meanings before the advent of desktop publishing. The current distinction between font and typeface is that a font designates a specific member of a type family such as roman, boldface, or italic type, while typeface designates a consistent visual appearance or style which can be a "family" or related set of...
<Alan> ...fonts. For example, a given typeface such as Arial may include roman, bold, and italic fonts. In the metal type era, a font also meant a specific point size, but with digital scalable outline fonts this distinction is no longer valid, as a single font may be scaled to any size.
<AllanJ> sharper: perhaps use the definition from CSS
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to contact Richard Ishida to discuss use of visual characters/fonts in screenreaders. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-105 - Contact Richard Ishida to discuss use of visual characters/fonts in screenreaders. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-25].
<AllanJ> Issue: rieview 2.1.6 Properties and the validity and reasoning for including the 6 items
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-28 - Rieview 2.1.6 Properties and the validity and reasoning for including the 6 items ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/28/edit .
ISSUE: Flag (a) the bounding dimensions and coordinates of rendered graphical objects, (b) font family of text, (c) font size of text, (d) foreground color of text, (e) background color of text., (f) change state/value notifications. DON'T WANT TO MOVE TO REC WITHOUT A BETTER SHARED UNDERSTANDING OF THESE - SEE ACTION-105
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-29 - Flag (a) the bounding dimensions and coordinates of rendered graphical objects, (b) font family of text, (c) font size of text, (d) foreground color of text, (e) background color of text., (f) change state/value notifications. DON'T WANT TO MOVE TO REC WITHOUT A BETTER SHARED UNDERSTANDING OF THESE - SEE ACTION-105 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/29/edit .
<jeanne> +1 to named font
<Alan> +2 to named font
<JR> +1 font family (but invetigate better alternatives)
<AllanJ> KF: scenario, browsing on a phone, with limited fonts, should the AT give the user more information to the AT user than the non-AT user
<AllanJ> JB: font name may not be level A
RESOLUTION: All agree, 'A' for all - but referee back to define these 6 items better.
<AllanJ> JR: this covers missing 'alt', user set option if no alt do xxx, UA must provide repair options, in future, may be image OCR
<Alan> Rewording... When the user agent recognizes that the author has not provided alternative content required by the technology specification (e.g., short text alternative for an image), allow the user the option to receive generated repair text.
<AllanJ> KF: AT now provides these options, but should be done by the UA,
<AllanJ> ...UA would give name of object to AT
<AllanJ> shaper: wordsmithing, why?
<AllanJ> Provide the user with anoption of receiving generated repair text when the user agent recognizes that the author has not provided alternative content required by the technology specification (e.g., short text alternative for an image).
all alternative: Provide the option of receiving generated repair text when the user agent recognizes that the author has omitted alternative content required by the technology specification (e.g., short text alternative for an image). (Level A)
<JR> Provide the user with the option of receiving generated repair text when the user agent recognizes alternative content is missing (e.g., short text alternative for an image).
<jeanne> Provide an option of receiving generated repair text when the user agent recognizes alternative content is missing.
<AllanJ> KF: how does this relate to 3.3.3 and the cascade of alternative
<AllanJ> sharper: perhaps wrap this into 3.1.1, add generated alternatives if content is missing
<AllanJ> JS: repair is important enough to have a separate item
AllanJ: these need a comprehensive re-hash
<AllanJ> JR: user needs option to turn off rendering alternatives
<AllanJ> ACTION: allanj to review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new success criteria [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - allanj
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to repair the Guideline 3.11 numbering [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-106 - Repair the Guideline 3.11 numbering [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-25].
<AllanJ> ACTION: JA to review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new success criteria [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-107 - Review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new success criteria [on Jim Allan - due 2008-12-25].
RESOLUTION: AllanJ to investigate this further (3.1 and 3.4)
<Alan> quit
<Alan> exit
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Harper_Simon Found ScribeNick: sharper Default Present: +1.425.883.aaaa, Jim_Allan, kford, Cantor, sharper, Jeanne, JR, Judy Present: +1.425.883.aaaa Cantor Harper_simon JR Jeanne Jim_Allan Judy kford sharper Ford_Kelly Allan_Jim Cantor_Alan Richards_Jan Spellman_Jeanne Brewer_Judy Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008OctDec/0081.html Found Date: 18 Dec 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html People with action items: allanj ja jr js tp WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]