<John_Boyer> Scribe: Leigh

<John_Boyer> scribenick: klotz

http://xformstest.org/2008-12-19.txt

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0039.html

hello kenneth

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0033.html

<John_Boyer> relevant="boolean-from-string(isManager)"

<John_Boyer> relevant="isManager"

<nick> I see, it only works for string(isManager)

<ebruchez> only in XPath 2

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0034.html

<John_Boyer> relevant="isManager='true'"

<markbirbeck> sorry about the background noise

<John_Boyer> readonly="not(isManager)"

<John_Boyer> readonly="not(boolean-from-string(isManager))"

RESOLUTION: We rescind http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Sep/att-0025/2008-09-10.html#resolution1 in the light of this discussion, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0034.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0033.html

<scribe> ACTION: John Boyer to update onramp boolean MIP examples to use boolean string comparison. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-forms-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

<John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/streamlined/index-all.html

<John_Boyer> XForms Transitional

<John_Boyer> XForms Basic

<John_Boyer> XForms Tiny

<John_Boyer> XFormsA

<unl> XForms Compact

<markbirbeck> XForms

<unl> XForms lite

<markbirbeck> :)

<kenneth> i like mark's suggestion

<Roger> XHForms

<unl> XForms Redux ;-)

<CharlieWiecha> for that last module, I think Mark just said it well: XForms HTML module

<CharlieWiecha> call it what it is

<John_Boyer> XForms for HTML?

<John_Boyer> is that what you mean?

<CharlieWiecha> kind of like just XForms HTML, period

<CharlieWiecha> i.e. "HTML" rather than "Tiny"

<John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/instance/dataAccessors/Data-Accessors-Module.html

<markbirbeck> sorry...lots of loud voices around here.

<CharlieWiecha> still need the next level out...Compact or something like that

<CharlieWiecha> for everything except "checked" etc

<markbirbeck> zkim, unmute me

<John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/streamlined/index-all.html

<John_Boyer> The XForms for HTML Module: Streamlined Expression...

<John_Boyer> Proposed name: THe XForms for HTML Module

<John_Boyer> Proposed Name: XForms for HTML

<prb> XForms for HTML is good

<CharlieWiecha> +1

<prb> +1

XForms for HTML

<John_Boyer> +1

<nick> +1

<wellsk> XForms for HTML

<wellsk> +1

<unl> +1

<prb> Mark is trying to speak

<prb> but having issues

<markbirbeck> it's ok...just trying to confirm that we are talking about the module.

<John_Boyer> yes

<markbirbeck> ok...

<John_Boyer> the spec currently called XFormsA

<John_Boyer> would be called XForms for HTML

<markbirbeck> I'm ok with it.

<markbirbeck> no...I can hear you.

<markbirbeck> just can't speak. :)

<markbirbeck> No...I'm here. :)

RESOLUTION: We change the name of

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/streamlined/index-all.html to "XForms for HTML"

<markbirbeck> I don't understand...I have only used Zakim's muting.

<scribe> ACTION: John Boyer to rename onramp to "XForms for HTML" today. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-forms-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

<markbirbeck> John...I have been asked by the XHTML 2 Working Group to get the XForms WG to reply to this: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2008Oct/0011.html. Would you be able to add that to the agenda?

<markbirbeck> Sure.

<markbirbeck> It's actually an answer to a question raised by the XForms WG, for a last call.

<scribe> ACTION: John Boyer to remove the namespace declarations and namespace uses from "XForms for HTML" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-forms-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

<markbirbeck> Ok.

<markbirbeck> Will do.

<John_Boyer> Changes to get and set form control values

<John_Boyer> submission attributes, esp. prune, source, target

http://xformstest.org/2008-12-19.txt

<nick> filter-relevant ?

<nick> sounds good

<markbirbeck> XAML tends to have attribute names that include something about their purpose...and I now realise why. :)

<markbirbeck> So it would be @serialise-preserve, rather than @preserve.

<markbirbeck> Otherwise we just re-create the same problem again.

<markbirbeck> I saw in another spec (SPARQL I think), which has the notion of "features at risk".

<markbirbeck> I think this is a W3C category.

<markbirbeck> I made the comment in relation to attributes that might appear in many situations in a document.

<markbirbeck> And the pattern seems to be that even if you think an attribute won't be used anywhere else...a day will come when it is. :)

<scribe> ACTION: John Boyer to add editorial note about names to source, target, and prune to XForms for HTML. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-forms-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

<markbirbeck> could you explain again?

<markbirbeck> Not backwards-compatible, I'm afraid.

<markbirbeck> Will mess up with accessibility.

<markbirbeck> Screen-reader will read alerts. :)

<markbirbeck> And help.

<markbirbeck> I.e., read stuff when it shouldn't.

<markbirbeck> Do you mean: <label type="alert">...</label>?

<markbirbeck> I also don't think that they are 'labels' semantically.

<markbirbeck> Sorry to be pedantic. :)

<markbirbeck> This is why I don't agree that we should limit ourselves to attributes.

<input name='ssn' help='Put your &lt;b&gt;SSN&lt;/&gt; number here' />

<markbirbeck> But <alert> would need @for.

<markbirbeck> But we also discussed having @alertid as well as @alert.

<markbirbeck> <input ... @alertid="a" /?

<markbirbeck> <div id="a">...</div>

<markbirbeck> I.e., you don't need an alert element.

<markbirbeck> You just need _any_ element.

<markbirbeck> That's how many Ajax libraries work.

<markbirbeck> Point to a div that becomes a message, in YUI.

<markbirbeck> Yes.

<markbirbeck> I agree. :)

<markbirbeck> I'm only saying that there is an intermediate step between (a) using @alert, and (c) using <xf:alert>.

<markbirbeck> I.e., (b) use @alertid.

xforms4html4

<John_Boyer> www.w3.org/TR/xforms-for-html

<John_Boyer> that would be the short name to match the doc name

x4h

x4h4

<CharlieWiecha> xf4h

<CharlieWiecha> no prob

<nick> just send an e-mail?

<John_Boyer> Any objection to FPWD under shortname xforms-for-html of next rev of sreamlined document with actions from today done

<CharlieWiecha> go for it

<John_Boyer> +1

<markbirbeck> A +1 would be an objection.

<CharlieWiecha> (right)

<markbirbeck> "I have no objection."

<John_Boyer> +1 = proceed, -1 == object

<markbirbeck> :)

<wellsk> +1

<prb> +1 (or -1, depending on perspective)

<markbirbeck> +1

<prb> +1

<unl> +1

<Roger> abstention

<nick> +1 (but still think we need an e-mail )

<ebruchez> +1

+1

<John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/streamlined/index-all.html

RESOLUTION: After completion of the action items for today that we take http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/streamlined/index-all.html to first public WD under the shortname xforms-for-html

<markbirbeck> bye everyone :)

<nick> shouldn't it be our short name instead of streamlined

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/f or/ for/
Succeeded: s/t't/'t/
Found Scribe: Leigh
Found ScribeNick: klotz

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Default Present: [IPcaller], CharlieWiecha, John_Boyer, wellsk, prb, unl, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Leigh_Klotz, ebruchez, Roger, markbirbeck
Present: [IPcaller] CharlieWiecha John_Boyer wellsk prb unl Nick_van_den_Bleeken Leigh_Klotz ebruchez Roger markbirbeck
Regrets: None
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0039.html
Got date from IRC log name: 19 Nov 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-forms-minutes.html
People with action items: boyer john

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<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report