IRC log of rif on 2008-11-17
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:59:28 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/17-rif-irc
- 16:01:33 [DaveReynolds]
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- 16:02:32 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF(CORE)11:00AM has now started
- 16:02:36 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 16:02:39 [ChrisW]
- zakim, ibm is me
- 16:02:40 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 16:02:44 [Zakim]
- -??P12
- 16:02:46 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 16:02:50 [Zakim]
- +ChrisW; got it
- 16:04:38 [Zakim]
- +??P15
- 16:05:04 [ChrisW]
- zakim, ??P15 is AdrianP
- 16:05:04 [Zakim]
- +AdrianP; got it
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- +kifer
- 16:06:17 [Michael_Kifer]
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- 16:08:49 [Zakim]
- +Gary
- 16:09:01 [AxelPolleres]
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- 16:09:08 [AxelPolleres]
- moment... dialing
- 16:10:10 [Zakim]
- +??P30
- 16:10:52 [DaveReynolds]
- topic: discussion re #/##
- 16:11:08 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: needs to be known at translation time the class of every object
- 16:11:30 [ChrisW]
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- 16:11:42 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:11:42 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ChrisW, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, kifer, Gary, AxelPolleres
- 16:11:44 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see ChrisW, Gary, AxelPolleres, Michael_Kifer, DaveReynolds, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, trackbot
- 16:12:05 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: or allow anywhere but have some compliance exception for PRD
- 16:14:19 [DaveReynolds]
- Michael: Patrick wanted to restrict to creation but that can't be done within CORE
- 16:15:59 [Harold]
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- 16:16:56 [Zakim]
- +Harold
- 16:18:45 [DaveReynolds]
- Dave: could we leave it as currently resolved and cover data models in a future extension?
- 16:19:31 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: but then it makes little sense to have # at all, because we then can't define it. Better to have externally defined.
- 16:20:45 [DaveReynolds]
- Chrisw: It means the class memberships are not defined in rules but defined in some out of band object system and # is just a way to test that in rules.
- 16:20:55 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: so should # be wrapped in an External wrapper?
- 16:23:55 [DaveReynolds]
- Dave: two clean options (a) unrestricted, (b) drop completely for FPWD
- 16:24:30 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: ree: b but many production systems require membership in patterns and so no PR rule would be a core rule.
- 16:24:35 [DaveReynolds]
- s/ree/re/
- 16:25:24 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: would rather leave it in unrestricted.
- 16:26:22 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: to be discussed in PRD telecon
- 16:26:39 [DaveReynolds]
- ScribeNick: DaveReynolds
- 16:29:25 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: PRD has special syntax for object creation which is where # can be asserted in PRD.
- 16:29:45 [DaveReynolds]
- Chris: so does a # in a fact in Core correspond to an object creation?
- 16:33:53 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: hopes that if allow # in facts in Core then static analysis can capture duplicate assertions and trap attempts to reassign membership at translation time
- 16:39:21 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: is we restrict to facts and conditions is that OK for core?
- 16:39:35 [DaveReynolds]
- Michael: yes
- 16:39:58 [DaveReynolds]
- Harold: c.f. abox in OWL
- 16:41:12 [DaveReynolds]
- Dave: what about subclass, is that needed?
- 16:41:34 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: yes, to represent e.g. complex type hierarchy in XML Schema
- 16:42:43 [Harold]
- Using #,facts to define class membership is a good match for Aboxes in OWL DL.
- 16:43:10 [Harold]
- s/#,/ #/
- 16:43:58 [DaveReynolds]
- Chris: what was the issue csma raised with pattern matching?
- 16:45:00 [DaveReynolds]
- Michael: only diff between unification and matching, when no function symbols, there is no difference unless there are variables in facts and safety rules that out
- 16:46:13 [DaveReynolds]
- Gary: isn't about external functions in conclusions? Not unification but about the need to rewrite a rule to handle builtins.
- 16:46:55 [Harold]
- Gary, do you mean something like unifying +(2,3) with 5?
- 16:47:15 [Harold]
- So, not just syntactic unifcication?
- 16:48:19 [Gary]
- P(x) :- P(x - 1) vs. P(x + 1) :- P(x)
- 16:48:22 [sandro]
- sandro has joined #rif
- 16:48:31 [DaveReynolds]
- Dave: what if restrict builtin fns to just equality?
- 16:48:47 [AxelPolleres]
- not sure, whether that was what christian meant.
- 16:49:24 [AxelPolleres]
- +1 to discuss that with christian tomorrow again.
- 16:49:31 [DaveReynolds]
- Need clarification from Christian on what he meant
- 16:50:25 [DaveReynolds]
- Dave: raise in plenary tomorrow?
- 16:50:58 [Harold]
- +1 (even in the plenary)
- 16:51:34 [DaveReynolds]
- Michael: issues (a) #/## (b) external functions (c) shorten compliance section (d) EBNF needs fixing
- 16:55:06 [Harold]
- s/safety /safeness/
- 16:55:12 [DaveReynolds]
- Action: dave update EBNF to match BLD
- 16:55:12 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-655 - Update EBNF to match BLD [on Dave Reynolds - due 2008-11-24].
- 16:56:40 [AxelPolleres]
- We still have "safety" in some places, don't we?
- 16:57:33 [Harold]
- Yes, should be changed.
- 16:58:05 [Harold]
- Is it realistic to have a freezable version before next Monday?
- 16:58:07 [DaveReynolds]
- Michael: can look at compliance section to see how to reformulate
- 16:59:18 [DaveReynolds]
- Possibles topics for plenary: (i) #/## new restrictions (ii) Christian pattern match
- 17:00:22 [DaveReynolds]
- Sorry - have to go
- 17:00:27 [Zakim]
- -DaveReynolds
- 17:03:07 [AxelPolleres]
- shall we adjourn?
- 17:03:14 [Zakim]
- -Gary
- 17:03:36 [AxelPolleres]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:03:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/17-rif-minutes.html AxelPolleres
- 17:04:11 [Harold]
- PRD colleagues, could you pleas briefly bring up if http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Core#Intersection_of_RIF-PRD_and_RIF-BLD is fine for the FPWD of Core?
- 17:04:16 [Zakim]
- -AdrianP
- 17:04:38 [Michael_Kifer]
- rrsagent, make public
- 17:04:38 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make public', Michael_Kifer. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 17:05:12 [Zakim]
- -AxelPolleres
- 17:05:14 [Zakim]
- -kifer
- 17:05:36 [Harold]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 17:05:57 [Harold]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 17:05:57 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/17-rif-minutes.html Harold
- 17:07:12 [Zakim]
- -ChrisW
- 17:07:13 [Zakim]
- -Harold
- 17:07:14 [Zakim]
- Attendees were ChrisW, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, kifer, Gary, AxelPolleres, Harold
- 17:07:34 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minites
- 17:07:34 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minites', ChrisW. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 17:07:37 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:07:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/17-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
- 18:19:46 [Zakim]
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- 20:01:38 [StellaMitchell]
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- 20:01:41 [sandro]
- hey
- 20:01:49 [sandro]
- SWC#Annotation_properties
- 20:01:59 [sandro]
- <a href="....">SWC#Annotation_properties</a>