13:40:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:40:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-irc
13:40:38 <RolandMerrick> Zakim, this will be XHTML2
13:40:38 <Zakim> ok, RolandMerrick; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:40:47 <RolandMerrick> rrsagent, make minutes
13:40:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html RolandMerrick
13:40:56 <RolandMerrick> rrsagent, make log public
13:41:20 <oedipus> roland, did you send out an agenda?  there isn't an "october" section of the list archive
13:42:08 <oedipus> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html
13:42:09 <Roland> Roland has joined #xhtml
13:42:42 <Tina> No agenda received here atleast.
13:44:30 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
13:44:37 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:44:44 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
13:44:49 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
13:45:22 <oedipus> chair: Roland_Merrick
13:45:28 <Zakim> +Tina
13:45:30 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
13:45:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
13:45:30 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
13:45:32 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:45:43 <Zakim> +Roland
13:46:16 <oedipus> TOPIC: Announcements & Agenda Shaping
13:46:26 <oedipus> RM: move forward from where we were last week
13:46:31 <oedipus> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html
13:46:52 <oedipus> regrets: Mark_Birbeck
13:47:00 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #xhtml
13:47:25 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
13:47:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
13:47:56 <Zakim> +ShaneM
13:48:05 <oedipus> meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Telecon
13:48:14 <Roland> Chair: Roland
13:48:52 <oedipus> mute, Tina
13:48:56 <oedipus> zakim, mute Tina
13:48:56 <Zakim> Tina should now be muted
13:49:07 <oedipus> zakim, unmute Tina
13:49:07 <Zakim> Tina should no longer be muted
13:49:23 <oedipus> zakim, who is making noise?
13:49:27 <Roland> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:49:32 <alessio> alessio has joined #xhtml
13:49:34 <Zakim> oedipus, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tina (45%), Roland (53%)
13:49:48 <ShaneM> zakim, mute tina
13:49:48 <Zakim> Tina should now be muted
13:50:01 <oedipus> RM: action item review from last week
13:50:05 <Roland> actions at: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open
13:50:10 <oedipus> RM: tracker now looking after actions and issues now
13:50:39 <oedipus> GJR notes that one should be able to bookmark a "my tracker" link for bookmarking if don't have one already
13:50:49 <oedipus> RM: actions from last week didn't get into tracking system
13:50:57 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
13:50:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Tina (muted), Roland, ShaneM
13:50:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see alessio, ShaneM, Roland, RRSAgent, Zakim, Tina, oedipus, trackbot
13:51:22 <Roland> last weeks actions: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes#ActionSummary
13:51:44 <oedipus> RM: 1 to shane to reply to comments; created draft - i and steven replied
13:51:50 <oedipus> SM: no other replies received
13:51:59 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1 to reply
13:52:06 <oedipus> RM: send response
13:52:15 <oedipus> SM: will make SP's suggested change and send out
13:52:27 <oedipus> RM: media type heuristic samples from SP to Tina
13:52:31 <Tina> Zakim, unmute me
13:52:31 <Zakim> Tina should no longer be muted
13:52:52 <oedipus> TH: being integrated as we speak - hope to publish by friday, will let list know
13:52:52 <Tina> Zakim, mute me
13:52:52 <Zakim> Tina should now be muted
13:53:17 <oedipus> RM: still have to deal with @target - TH, didn't you take action item on that?
13:53:26 <oedipus> TH: yes - assigned last week
13:53:28 <Tina> I have some thoughts on the topic, but will assemble them later.
13:53:32 <oedipus> q+
13:54:00 <oedipus> RM: CURIE syntax  -- should have something shortly from TAG
13:54:27 <oedipus> SM: didn't know there were 2 tag mailing lists, so didn't know was second list until recently
13:54:34 <oedipus> q?
13:55:01 <oedipus> SM: providing us with language to make us happy, but misquoted the document by suggesting new wording for an issue that doesn't exist - misquote def of lexical space
13:55:11 <oedipus> SM: as long as it is not wrong, just do it
13:55:39 <oedipus> RM: team meeting on modularization this week
13:56:30 <oedipus> GJR: also @lang discussion
13:56:37 <oedipus> RM: in latest mime-type document
13:56:56 <oedipus> TOPIC: From the Back Burner to the Front
13:57:09 <oedipus> RM: hoped to get new XHTML2 draft out, but waiting on cleaning of other docs
13:57:20 <oedipus> SM: XML Events 2, and CURIEs and Access
13:57:33 <oedipus> RM: all others moving through system; XML Events 2 stalled on way to LC
13:57:45 <oedipus> SM: waiting on comments from forms group as i recall
13:57:53 <oedipus> RM: asked them a question?
13:57:56 <oedipus> SM: yes
13:58:37 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
13:59:06 <oedipus> SM: SP had action to convey to forms; can't remember action
13:59:09 <oedipus> RM: me neither
13:59:18 <oedipus> RM: change of names - "dispatch" and the like...
13:59:36 <oedipus> RM: SM do you have handle on issues
13:59:54 <oedipus> SM: no outstanding issues, except we asked XForms for one thing because we didn't know what to do?
13:59:59 <oedipus> RM: timing questions?
14:00:07 <oedipus> SM: when are you fed registers?
14:00:08 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0094.html
14:00:22 <oedipus> RM: reply to SP's question on this
14:00:56 <oedipus> RM: question posed - wasn't it originally markB's question?
14:01:23 <oedipus> RM: question is: can we be specific  - expect before document is ready?
14:01:36 <oedipus> RM: farther into events or can you specify before
14:01:39 <oedipus> SM: before what?
14:01:51 <oedipus> RM: don't know - just trying to interpret their message
14:02:31 <oedipus> SM: unfortunate that we have to come up with an answer -- it is a DOM issue
14:03:07 <oedipus> RM: what can we rely on - execution of script during loading process - will be available before any user interactions?
14:03:19 <oedipus> RM: inspired by XForms
14:03:38 <oedipus> SM: most UAs allow user interaction beforeDOMReady, so don't know if we can make such a statement
14:04:12 <oedipus> RM: that's my point and why have to defer to DOM -- if present events prior to DomReady, can't tell  you about it until DOMReady
14:04:46 <oedipus> RM: should pose question to DOM3 guys - had joint call with them previously (month or so ago)
14:05:16 <oedipus> RM: call with Doug Schepers - take back to doug and DOM guys and say "interesting question: what do YOU suggest?"
14:05:20 <oedipus> SM: reasonable
14:06:09 <oedipus> ACTION: Roland - write to DOM3 guys on when registration will occur and when events can be fired; coordinate deeper discussion
14:06:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1 - - write to DOM3 guys on when registration will occur and when events can be fired; coordinate deeper discussion [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-10-08].
14:06:27 <oedipus> RM: led to second question: should listeners be "live"?
14:06:43 <oedipus> RM: "should listeners react?"
14:06:55 <oedipus> RM: answer proposed interesting, but not sure that i agree with it
14:07:15 <oedipus> RM: what is point of addListener - after executed expect that listener to be working
14:08:01 <oedipus> SM: my view is that the various XML Events attributes are processed atomically at some point in initialization process, so think have to act as if all initialized at once
14:08:21 <oedipus> RM: if add to DOM via script, want it to run pre-DOMReady or while loads
14:09:53 <oedipus> SM: if i had a script which provided new content that included an addListener; as part of my inner HTML call, going to trigger DOM mutation event, so some handler could know that there had been a change to the DOM and go and process it, but if implemented XML Events handler in javascript (client-side thing not built into UA) don't know when going to get  event or if get reliably; don't want to have to traverse entire tree
14:10:09 <oedipus> SM: mutation events ocur in nodes, could walk down them - ugly, but doable
14:10:16 <oedipus> RM: what author expects to happen
14:10:35 <oedipus> GJR: would be good for Assistive Tech being prepared to use expert handler
14:11:07 <oedipus> RM: answer to listener live: yes; ignore if DOM mutation adds addListener should be processed as happens
14:11:20 <oedipus> SM: similarly, if Listener elements are removed, then what
14:11:52 <oedipus> RM: when add and remove -- what is processing model for segment -- if remove listener, that is fine (presumably executed at right time)
14:12:17 <oedipus> RM: if remove second node, may not get there anyway by DOM because nodes wouldn't generate any events because no longer exist
14:13:25 <oedipus> SM: shoe-horning declarative event model; DOM Event collection (stack for every event, lists handlers in bubbling order) -- if removing or adding nodes to DOM could pose problems; 
14:13:44 <oedipus> SM: think way UAs work today, if use script element with AddEvent call in it, would that get executed?
14:13:53 <oedipus> SM: pretty sure answer is no
14:14:04 <oedipus> RM: if in function, and that function invoked, then would get executed
14:14:06 <oedipus> SM: sure
14:15:25 <oedipus> SM: if, for example, you implement listener through XML Events 2 declarative statements, and then you register handler that uses the listener (this event will result in action x in listener) - if remove from DOM, what would happen?  thing in the DOM is not the script but something that told XML engine how to create an listener - not bound to DOM node anymore
14:15:34 <oedipus> SM: how i envision this model
14:16:19 <oedipus> RM: need to explore and map out actions: notification of events, removal of listings, should describe these scenarios
14:17:47 <oedipus> RM: XHR inserts code into DOM, when register listener should be able to assert when -- will continue to explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload; use XML Events as alternate for script need to define these options
14:18:25 <oedipus> ACTION: Roland - explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload
14:18:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - - explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-10-08].
14:18:28 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0035
14:18:34 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
14:18:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
14:18:54 <oedipus> TOPIC: XForms Group Feedback
14:19:07 <oedipus> RM: may have investigated - use @target in other places for other things
14:19:30 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Sep/0029
14:20:23 <oedipus> RM: "dispatch element" in XForms, we have "dispatch event"
14:20:44 <oedipus> RM: minutes from february f2f to find how "dispatch event" got in
14:21:13 <oedipus> ACTION: Roland - review XML Events 2 issues comprehensively;
14:21:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - - review XML Events 2 issues comprehensively; [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-10-08].
14:21:37 <oedipus> RM: may thrash out at face2face and break-outs - will try to get as much info to the WG before F2F
14:21:48 <oedipus> TOPIC: Role Module Status
14:21:58 <oedipus> RM: where are we with Role? waiting on CURIEs?
14:22:15 <oedipus> SM: had comments from XML CG - just responded to them and posted to list
14:22:30 <oedipus> SM: waiting for CURIE transition before advance Role and Access
14:22:37 <oedipus> RM: anything outstanding with Access?
14:22:45 <oedipus> SM: some editorial changes, mostly just waiting
14:23:20 <oedipus> RM: Steven made changes to vocabulary document - should cover response to CG
14:23:26 <oedipus> RM: ready to adjourn?
14:23:30 <oedipus> GJR: second the motion
14:23:57 <oedipus> SM: use balance of time to respond to simon about xhtml mime document
14:24:10 <oedipus> ADJOURNED
14:24:18 <Zakim> -ShaneM
14:24:20 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
14:24:20 <Zakim> -Roland
14:24:23 <Zakim> -Tina
14:24:24 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
14:24:25 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Tina, Roland, ShaneM
14:24:34 <oedipus> zakim, please part
14:24:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #xhtml
14:24:47 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
14:24:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
14:25:28 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
14:25:28 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-actions.rdf :
14:25:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Roland - write to DOM3 guys on when registration will occur and when events can be fired; coordinate deeper discussion [1]
14:25:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-irc#T14-06-09
14:25:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Roland - explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload [2]
14:25:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-irc#T14-18-25
14:25:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Roland - review XML Events 2 issues comprehensively; [3]
14:25:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-irc#T14-21-13