IRC log of xhtml on 2008-10-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:40:18 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
- 13:40:18 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-irc
- 13:40:38 [RolandMerrick]
- Zakim, this will be XHTML2
- 13:40:38 [Zakim]
- ok, RolandMerrick; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
- 13:40:47 [RolandMerrick]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:40:47 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html RolandMerrick
- 13:40:56 [RolandMerrick]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 13:41:20 [oedipus]
- roland, did you send out an agenda? there isn't an "october" section of the list archive
- 13:42:08 [oedipus]
- Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html
- 13:42:09 [Roland]
- Roland has joined #xhtml
- 13:42:42 [Tina]
- No agenda received here atleast.
- 13:44:30 [Zakim]
- IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
- 13:44:37 [Zakim]
- +Gregory_Rosmaita
- 13:44:44 [oedipus]
- Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
- 13:44:49 [oedipus]
- ScribeNick: oedipus
- 13:45:22 [oedipus]
- chair: Roland_Merrick
- 13:45:28 [Zakim]
- +Tina
- 13:45:30 [oedipus]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:45:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
- 13:45:30 [Zakim]
- -Gregory_Rosmaita
- 13:45:32 [Zakim]
- +Gregory_Rosmaita
- 13:45:43 [Zakim]
- +Roland
- 13:46:16 [oedipus]
- TOPIC: Announcements & Agenda Shaping
- 13:46:26 [oedipus]
- RM: move forward from where we were last week
- 13:46:31 [oedipus]
- Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html
- 13:46:52 [oedipus]
- regrets: Mark_Birbeck
- 13:47:00 [ShaneM]
- ShaneM has joined #xhtml
- 13:47:25 [oedipus]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:47:25 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
- 13:47:56 [Zakim]
- +ShaneM
- 13:48:05 [oedipus]
- meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Telecon
- 13:48:14 [Roland]
- Chair: Roland
- 13:48:52 [oedipus]
- mute, Tina
- 13:48:56 [oedipus]
- zakim, mute Tina
- 13:48:56 [Zakim]
- Tina should now be muted
- 13:49:07 [oedipus]
- zakim, unmute Tina
- 13:49:07 [Zakim]
- Tina should no longer be muted
- 13:49:23 [oedipus]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 13:49:27 [Roland]
- Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
- 13:49:32 [alessio]
- alessio has joined #xhtml
- 13:49:34 [Zakim]
- oedipus, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tina (45%), Roland (53%)
- 13:49:48 [ShaneM]
- zakim, mute tina
- 13:49:48 [Zakim]
- Tina should now be muted
- 13:50:01 [oedipus]
- RM: action item review from last week
- 13:50:05 [Roland]
- actions at: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open
- 13:50:10 [oedipus]
- RM: tracker now looking after actions and issues now
- 13:50:39 [oedipus]
- GJR notes that one should be able to bookmark a "my tracker" link for bookmarking if don't have one already
- 13:50:49 [oedipus]
- RM: actions from last week didn't get into tracking system
- 13:50:57 [oedipus]
- zakim, who is here?
- 13:50:57 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Tina (muted), Roland, ShaneM
- 13:50:58 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see alessio, ShaneM, Roland, RRSAgent, Zakim, Tina, oedipus, trackbot
- 13:51:22 [Roland]
- last weeks actions: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes#ActionSummary
- 13:51:44 [oedipus]
- RM: 1 to shane to reply to comments; created draft - i and steven replied
- 13:51:50 [oedipus]
- SM: no other replies received
- 13:51:59 [oedipus]
- GJR: plus 1 to reply
- 13:52:06 [oedipus]
- RM: send response
- 13:52:15 [oedipus]
- SM: will make SP's suggested change and send out
- 13:52:27 [oedipus]
- RM: media type heuristic samples from SP to Tina
- 13:52:31 [Tina]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 13:52:31 [Zakim]
- Tina should no longer be muted
- 13:52:52 [oedipus]
- TH: being integrated as we speak - hope to publish by friday, will let list know
- 13:52:52 [Tina]
- Zakim, mute me
- 13:52:52 [Zakim]
- Tina should now be muted
- 13:53:17 [oedipus]
- RM: still have to deal with @target - TH, didn't you take action item on that?
- 13:53:26 [oedipus]
- TH: yes - assigned last week
- 13:53:28 [Tina]
- I have some thoughts on the topic, but will assemble them later.
- 13:53:32 [oedipus]
- q+
- 13:54:00 [oedipus]
- RM: CURIE syntax -- should have something shortly from TAG
- 13:54:27 [oedipus]
- SM: didn't know there were 2 tag mailing lists, so didn't know was second list until recently
- 13:54:34 [oedipus]
- q?
- 13:55:01 [oedipus]
- SM: providing us with language to make us happy, but misquoted the document by suggesting new wording for an issue that doesn't exist - misquote def of lexical space
- 13:55:11 [oedipus]
- SM: as long as it is not wrong, just do it
- 13:55:39 [oedipus]
- RM: team meeting on modularization this week
- 13:56:30 [oedipus]
- GJR: also @lang discussion
- 13:56:37 [oedipus]
- RM: in latest mime-type document
- 13:56:56 [oedipus]
- TOPIC: From the Back Burner to the Front
- 13:57:09 [oedipus]
- RM: hoped to get new XHTML2 draft out, but waiting on cleaning of other docs
- 13:57:20 [oedipus]
- SM: XML Events 2, and CURIEs and Access
- 13:57:33 [oedipus]
- RM: all others moving through system; XML Events 2 stalled on way to LC
- 13:57:45 [oedipus]
- SM: waiting on comments from forms group as i recall
- 13:57:53 [oedipus]
- RM: asked them a question?
- 13:57:56 [oedipus]
- SM: yes
- 13:58:37 [oedipus]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:58:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
- 13:59:06 [oedipus]
- SM: SP had action to convey to forms; can't remember action
- 13:59:09 [oedipus]
- RM: me neither
- 13:59:18 [oedipus]
- RM: change of names - "dispatch" and the like...
- 13:59:36 [oedipus]
- RM: SM do you have handle on issues
- 13:59:54 [oedipus]
- SM: no outstanding issues, except we asked XForms for one thing because we didn't know what to do?
- 13:59:59 [oedipus]
- RM: timing questions?
- 14:00:07 [oedipus]
- SM: when are you fed registers?
- 14:00:08 [Roland]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0094.html
- 14:00:22 [oedipus]
- RM: reply to SP's question on this
- 14:00:56 [oedipus]
- RM: question posed - wasn't it originally markB's question?
- 14:01:23 [oedipus]
- RM: question is: can we be specific - expect before document is ready?
- 14:01:36 [oedipus]
- RM: farther into events or can you specify before
- 14:01:39 [oedipus]
- SM: before what?
- 14:01:51 [oedipus]
- RM: don't know - just trying to interpret their message
- 14:02:31 [oedipus]
- SM: unfortunate that we have to come up with an answer -- it is a DOM issue
- 14:03:07 [oedipus]
- RM: what can we rely on - execution of script during loading process - will be available before any user interactions?
- 14:03:19 [oedipus]
- RM: inspired by XForms
- 14:03:38 [oedipus]
- SM: most UAs allow user interaction beforeDOMReady, so don't know if we can make such a statement
- 14:04:12 [oedipus]
- RM: that's my point and why have to defer to DOM -- if present events prior to DomReady, can't tell you about it until DOMReady
- 14:04:46 [oedipus]
- RM: should pose question to DOM3 guys - had joint call with them previously (month or so ago)
- 14:05:16 [oedipus]
- RM: call with Doug Schepers - take back to doug and DOM guys and say "interesting question: what do YOU suggest?"
- 14:05:20 [oedipus]
- SM: reasonable
- 14:06:09 [oedipus]
- ACTION: Roland - write to DOM3 guys on when registration will occur and when events can be fired; coordinate deeper discussion
- 14:06:09 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1 - - write to DOM3 guys on when registration will occur and when events can be fired; coordinate deeper discussion [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-10-08].
- 14:06:27 [oedipus]
- RM: led to second question: should listeners be "live"?
- 14:06:43 [oedipus]
- RM: "should listeners react?"
- 14:06:55 [oedipus]
- RM: answer proposed interesting, but not sure that i agree with it
- 14:07:15 [oedipus]
- RM: what is point of addListener - after executed expect that listener to be working
- 14:08:01 [oedipus]
- SM: my view is that the various XML Events attributes are processed atomically at some point in initialization process, so think have to act as if all initialized at once
- 14:08:21 [oedipus]
- RM: if add to DOM via script, want it to run pre-DOMReady or while loads
- 14:09:53 [oedipus]
- SM: if i had a script which provided new content that included an addListener; as part of my inner HTML call, going to trigger DOM mutation event, so some handler could know that there had been a change to the DOM and go and process it, but if implemented XML Events handler in javascript (client-side thing not built into UA) don't know when going to get event or if get reliably; don't want to have to traverse entire tree
- 14:10:09 [oedipus]
- SM: mutation events ocur in nodes, could walk down them - ugly, but doable
- 14:10:16 [oedipus]
- RM: what author expects to happen
- 14:10:35 [oedipus]
- GJR: would be good for Assistive Tech being prepared to use expert handler
- 14:11:07 [oedipus]
- RM: answer to listener live: yes; ignore if DOM mutation adds addListener should be processed as happens
- 14:11:20 [oedipus]
- SM: similarly, if Listener elements are removed, then what
- 14:11:52 [oedipus]
- RM: when add and remove -- what is processing model for segment -- if remove listener, that is fine (presumably executed at right time)
- 14:12:17 [oedipus]
- RM: if remove second node, may not get there anyway by DOM because nodes wouldn't generate any events because no longer exist
- 14:13:25 [oedipus]
- SM: shoe-horning declarative event model; DOM Event collection (stack for every event, lists handlers in bubbling order) -- if removing or adding nodes to DOM could pose problems;
- 14:13:44 [oedipus]
- SM: think way UAs work today, if use script element with AddEvent call in it, would that get executed?
- 14:13:53 [oedipus]
- SM: pretty sure answer is no
- 14:14:04 [oedipus]
- RM: if in function, and that function invoked, then would get executed
- 14:14:06 [oedipus]
- SM: sure
- 14:15:25 [oedipus]
- SM: if, for example, you implement listener through XML Events 2 declarative statements, and then you register handler that uses the listener (this event will result in action x in listener) - if remove from DOM, what would happen? thing in the DOM is not the script but something that told XML engine how to create an listener - not bound to DOM node anymore
- 14:15:34 [oedipus]
- SM: how i envision this model
- 14:16:19 [oedipus]
- RM: need to explore and map out actions: notification of events, removal of listings, should describe these scenarios
- 14:17:47 [oedipus]
- RM: XHR inserts code into DOM, when register listener should be able to assert when -- will continue to explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload; use XML Events as alternate for script need to define these options
- 14:18:25 [oedipus]
- ACTION: Roland - explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload
- 14:18:25 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2 - - explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-10-08].
- 14:18:28 [Roland]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0035
- 14:18:34 [oedipus]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:18:34 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
- 14:18:54 [oedipus]
- TOPIC: XForms Group Feedback
- 14:19:07 [oedipus]
- RM: may have investigated - use @target in other places for other things
- 14:19:30 [Roland]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Sep/0029
- 14:20:23 [oedipus]
- RM: "dispatch element" in XForms, we have "dispatch event"
- 14:20:44 [oedipus]
- RM: minutes from february f2f to find how "dispatch event" got in
- 14:21:13 [oedipus]
- ACTION: Roland - review XML Events 2 issues comprehensively;
- 14:21:13 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-3 - - review XML Events 2 issues comprehensively; [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-10-08].
- 14:21:37 [oedipus]
- RM: may thrash out at face2face and break-outs - will try to get as much info to the WG before F2F
- 14:21:48 [oedipus]
- TOPIC: Role Module Status
- 14:21:58 [oedipus]
- RM: where are we with Role? waiting on CURIEs?
- 14:22:15 [oedipus]
- SM: had comments from XML CG - just responded to them and posted to list
- 14:22:30 [oedipus]
- SM: waiting for CURIE transition before advance Role and Access
- 14:22:37 [oedipus]
- RM: anything outstanding with Access?
- 14:22:45 [oedipus]
- SM: some editorial changes, mostly just waiting
- 14:23:20 [oedipus]
- RM: Steven made changes to vocabulary document - should cover response to CG
- 14:23:26 [oedipus]
- RM: ready to adjourn?
- 14:23:30 [oedipus]
- GJR: second the motion
- 14:23:57 [oedipus]
- SM: use balance of time to respond to simon about xhtml mime document
- 14:24:10 [oedipus]
- ADJOURNED
- 14:24:18 [Zakim]
- -ShaneM
- 14:24:20 [Zakim]
- -Gregory_Rosmaita
- 14:24:20 [Zakim]
- -Roland
- 14:24:23 [Zakim]
- -Tina
- 14:24:24 [Zakim]
- IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
- 14:24:25 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Tina, Roland, ShaneM
- 14:24:34 [oedipus]
- zakim, please part
- 14:24:34 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #xhtml
- 14:24:47 [oedipus]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:24:47 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
- 14:25:28 [oedipus]
- rrsagent, please part
- 14:25:28 [RRSAgent]
- I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-actions.rdf :
- 14:25:28 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Roland - write to DOM3 guys on when registration will occur and when events can be fired; coordinate deeper discussion [1]
- 14:25:28 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-irc#T14-06-09
- 14:25:28 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Roland - explore possibilities and what happens with registration and deregistration of listeners at load time and at unload [2]
- 14:25:28 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-irc#T14-18-25
- 14:25:28 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Roland - review XML Events 2 issues comprehensively; [3]
- 14:25:28 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-xhtml-irc#T14-21-13