<Charlie> Hi Steven!

Howdy

<Charlie> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Sep/0016.html

<Charlie> Scribe: Steven

TPAC

Charlie: Status

Steven: Well, please prepare to give a talk

Jack's Paper

Charlie: Congratulations are due to Jack on his best paper prize at the recent conference

jack: SMIL is an example of a technology integrating XForms
... and I hope the take-away at TPAC is that other technologies can do this

<JohnBoyer> A good blog entry that explains why people should read the paper by Jack Jansen and Dick Bulterman is here: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer?entry=on_the_best_paper_at

<Charlie> www.webdialogs.com

<JohnBoyer> 801862

<Charlie> meeting 801862

John: In the talk I'd like to talk about ubiquity, and the loan form and then segue into the other stuff like ARIA

Charlie;Ｉ’ｄ　ｗａｎｔ　ｔｏ　ｃｏｏｒｄｉｎａｔｅ　ｗｉｔｈ　Ｍａｒｋ　Ｂｉｒｂｅｃｋ　ａｓ　ｗｅｌｌ

ｓ／；／：／

ｒｒｓａｇｅｎｔ，　ｍａｋｅ　ｍｉｎｕｔｅｓ

test

Charlie: I'd want to coordinate with Mark Birbeck as well

Jack: Why don't we dress up our homepage with references to Ubiquity and my paper and so on
... for people at the TPAC to refer to

Charlie: Good plan

<Charlie> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/app-backplane/

<Charlie> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/app-backplane/wiki/Main_Page

Charlie: Gregory has a page with the ARIA stuff too

Jack: For this crowd the no-budget bicycle tour is interesting
... since it demonstrates the integration of components

Charlie: What are the talking points from this paper?

Jack: Shared data model
... timing
... time-based metadata in the datamodel
... such as longitude and latitude
... which controls the map

Charlie: We could compare this with Mark's map as XForms repeat

Jack: Last bit, the search terms can be seen as time-based metadata
... xforms:output can be used to output text, but not to change attribute values

John: My talk can link to this, and the relation to MVC

Charlie: Is there an example of how SMIL binds to the model?

John: I didn't understand the question about attributes

Steven: Well, we had talked about using attribute value templates for this

Jack: Yes, like altering an href

<unl> staven, load is an action

Steven: There is a control special case for links (load)
... trigger linked to a load

<unl> what about xf:output bound to xs:anyURI?

Charlie: Tell us more about the next sections

Jack: In figure 7
... I talk about hotel information
... an expression is evaluated at run time, that decides whether a parallel section gets played
... that is from XForms to SMIL
... and the setvalues at the bottom of fig 7 set the metadata in the datamodel
... which will be interpreted to put it the map or the HTML page

Charlie：My voice example is similar

scribe: I have an equivalent to the setvalues to achieve the same effect

Charlie: How about events?

Jack: I should have used a different construct to allow that while it was playing

Charlie: And this works without scripting?

Jack: Yes
... the HTML and the SMIL are black boxes synchronising via the data model
... that's a nice feature

Charlie: I would like to be able to synchronising with external events

Jack: You can emulate that with some datamodule variables

Charlie: Do you support DOM Events, like dispatch Event?

Jack: Oh yes
... but inside SMIL only
... if it was embedded in a UA that supported it, you could do it

Charlie: The events could bubble out?

Jack: Yes

Charlie: The argument of our talk is that we don't need new machinery

Jack: one thing that we want to mention in the talk, in section 5, is that the engine is 500 lines of code
... it is really easy
... implement setvalue and ATVs and so on

Charlie：So if you have XForms, Events, SMIL, the rest is glue

JackＹｅｓ

／ｍｅ　ｃｕｒｓｅｓ

Charlie: So here is our form

[Charlie demonstrates XForms, with voice output]

[Running in Firefox]

Charlie: This is event driven
... getting back from Voice, I have to write into the datamodel
... this is different from x+v
... where there is no round trips to the data model
... this is similar to how Jack does it via the datamodell
... which gives all the advantages of the constraints and so on

[Charlie shows the code - link in the agenda]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Sep/0010.html

John: A shame you have to do rebuild, recalculate, revalidate, refresh

Charlie: Not sure why the rebuild is needed

John: XForms:label is meant to supply the voice system with a prompt

Charlie: We can do that

John: Even if it has a @ref?

Charlie: Sure

John: For demo purposes, it gives the talking point of using label

Jack: Doesn't it break the MVC?
... since the voice part looks at the XForms view part

Charlie: Longer debate, but Voice is presentation, so it is View

<jackjansen> also has to leave

John: Talking to accessibility people, it helps to be able to show the equivalence of visual and voice outputs if needed

Charlie: I will do an outline, and we can review next week

John: Which slide technology?

Steven: HTML
... slidy

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Topic: Congratulations/Topic: Jack's Paper/
Succeeded: s/HTL/HTML/
Succeeded: s/ee/e/
Found Scribe: Steven
Inferring ScribeNick: Steven
Default Present: Charlie, Steven, unl, jackjansen, +1.250.294.aabb, JohnBoyer, Kevin_Kelly
Present: Charlie Steven unl jackjansen +1.250.294.aabb JohnBoyer Kevin_Kelly
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Sep/0016.html
Got date from IRC log name: 23 Sep 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-backplane-minutes.html
People with action items: