14:23:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #backplane
14:23:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-backplane-irc
14:23:35 <Charlie> zakim, this will be forms
14:23:35 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Charlie
14:23:42 <Charlie> zakim, this will be rwab
14:23:42 <Zakim> ok, Charlie; I see INC_RWAB()11:00AM scheduled to start in 37 minutes
14:23:54 <Charlie> rrsagent, make logs public
14:24:06 <Charlie> Meeting: Backplane XG Telecon
14:24:17 <Charlie> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Sep/0016.html
14:24:21 <Charlie> Chair: Charlie Wiecha
14:56:26 <Steven> Steven has joined #backplane
14:57:43 <Steven_> Steven_ has joined #backplane
14:59:49 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has now started
14:59:55 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:59:58 <Charlie> zakim, [IBM] is Charlie
14:59:58 <Zakim> +Charlie; got it
15:00:03 <Charlie> Hi Steven!
15:00:10 <Steven> Howdy
15:00:54 <jackjansen> jackjansen has joined #backplane
15:01:31 <unl> unl has joined #backplane
15:02:40 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:02:40 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:02:41 <Zakim> +Steven
15:03:10 <Zakim> +??P48
15:03:33 <unl> zakim, ??P48 is me
15:03:33 <Zakim> +unl; got it
15:04:13 <Zakim> + +31.20.592.aaaa
15:04:34 <jackjansen> zakim, +31.20.592.aaaa is me
15:04:39 <Zakim> +jackjansen; got it
15:04:49 <lingtt> lingtt has joined #Backplane
15:05:34 <Charlie> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Sep/0016.html
15:05:42 <unl> zakim, mute me
15:05:42 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
15:07:06 <Charlie> Scribe: Steven
15:07:12 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-backplane-minutes.html Steven
15:07:46 <JohnBoyer2> JohnBoyer2 has joined #backplane
15:08:53 <Zakim> + +1.250.294.aabb
15:09:10 <JohnBoyer> zakim, +1.250 is JohnBoyer
15:09:10 <Zakim> +JohnBoyer; got it
15:09:33 <Steven> Topic: TPAC
15:09:42 <Steven> Charlie: Status
15:09:57 <Steven> Steven: Well, please prepare to give a talk
15:10:08 <Steven> Topic: Congratulations
15:10:36 <Steven> Charlie: Congratulations are due to Jack on his best paper prize at the recent conference
15:11:20 <rahul> rahul has joined #backplane
15:11:25 <Kevin> Kevin has joined #backplane
15:11:59 <Steven> jack: SMIL is an example of a technology integrating XForms
15:12:14 <Steven> ... and I hope the take-away at TPAC is that other technologies can do this
15:12:56 <JohnBoyer> A good blog entry that explains why people should read the paper by Jack Jansen and Dick Bulterman is here: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer?entry=on_the_best_paper_at
15:12:58 <Zakim> +Kevin_Kelly
15:15:07 <Charlie> www.webdialogs.com
15:15:09 <JohnBoyer> 801862
15:15:10 <Charlie> meeting 801862
15:16:24 <Steven> s/Topic: Congratulations/Topic: Jack's Paper/
15:17:56 <Steven> John: In the talk I'd like to talk about ubiquity, and the loan form and then segue into the other stuff like ARIA
15:18:18 <Steven> Charlie;Ｉ’ｄ　ｗａｎｔ　ｔｏ　ｃｏｏｒｄｉｎａｔｅ　ｗｉｔｈ　Ｍａｒｋ　Ｂｉｒｂｅｃｋ　ａｓ　ｗｅｌｌ
15:18:27 <Steven> ｓ／；／：／
15:18:48 <Steven> ｒｒｓａｇｅｎｔ，　ｍａｋｅ　ｍｉｎｕｔｅｓ
15:20:19 <Steven> Steven has left #backplane
15:20:27 <Steven> Steven has joined #backplane
15:20:40 <Steven> test
15:20:59 <Steven> Charlie: I'd want to coordinate with Mark Birbeck as well
15:21:42 <Steven> Jack: Why don't we dress up our homepage with references to Ubiquity and my paper and so on
15:22:00 <Steven> ... for people at the TPAC to refer to
15:22:04 <Steven> Charlie: Good plan
15:22:33 <Charlie> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/app-backplane/
15:23:12 <Charlie> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/app-backplane/wiki/Main_Page
15:23:33 <Steven> Charlie: Gregory has a page with the ARIA stuff too
15:24:07 <Steven> Jack: For this crowd the no-budget bicycle tour is interesting
15:24:32 <Steven> ... since it demonstrates the integration of components
15:25:08 <Steven> Charlie: What are the talking points from this paper?
15:25:36 <Steven> Jack: Shared data model
15:26:04 <Steven> ... timing
15:26:32 <Steven> ... time-based metadata in the datamodel
15:26:48 <Steven> ... such as longitude and latitude
15:26:59 <Steven> ... which controls the map
15:27:20 <Steven> Charlie: We could compare this with Mark's map as XForms repeat
15:28:37 <Steven> Jack: Last bit, the search terms can be seen as time-based metadata
15:29:42 <Steven> ... xforms:output can be used to output text, but not to change attribute values
15:30:23 <Steven> John: My talk can link to this, and the relation to MVC
15:31:10 <Steven> Charlie: Is there an example of how SMIL binds to the model?
15:33:00 <Steven> John: I  didn't understand the question about attributes
15:33:24 <Steven> Steven: Well, we had talked about using attribute value templates for this
15:33:42 <Steven> Jack: Yes, like altering an href
15:34:58 <unl> staven, load is an action
15:34:59 <Steven> Steven: There is a control special case for links (load)
15:35:14 <Steven> ... trigger linked to a load
15:35:36 <unl> what about xf:output bound to xs:anyURI?
15:35:54 <Steven> Charlie: Tell us more about the next sections
15:36:07 <Steven> Jack: In figure 7
15:36:15 <Steven> ... I talk about hotel information
15:36:42 <Steven> ... an expression is evaluated at run time, that decides whether a parallel section gets played
15:37:10 <Steven> ... that is from XForms to SMIL
15:37:42 <Steven> ... and the setvalues at the bottom of fig 7 set the metadata in the datamodel
15:38:00 <Steven> ... which will be interpreted to put it the map or the HTL page
15:38:10 <Steven> s/HTL/HTML/
15:38:21 <Steven> Charlie：My voice example is similar
15:38:40 <Steven> ... I have an equivalent to the setvalues to achieve the same effect
15:39:36 <Steven> Steven has left #backplane
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15:39:56 <Steven> Charlie: How about events?
15:40:13 <Steven> Jack: I should have used a different construct to allow that while it was playing
15:40:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-backplane-minutes.html Steven
15:40:45 <Steven> Charlie: And this works without scripting?
15:40:47 <Steven> Jack: Yes
15:42:03 <Steven> ... the HTML and the SMIL are black boxes synchronising via the data model
15:42:11 <Steven> ... that's a nice feature
15:42:45 <Steven> Charlie: I would like to be able to synchronising with external events
15:43:02 <Steven> Jack: You can emulate that with some datamodule variables
15:43:19 <Steven> Charlie: Do you support DOM Events, like dispatch Eveent?
15:43:23 <Steven> s/ee/e/
15:43:47 <Steven> Jack: Oh yes
15:43:57 <Steven> ... but inside SMIL only
15:44:13 <Steven> ... if it was embedded in a UA that supported it, you could do it
15:44:24 <Steven> Charlie: The  events could bubble out?
15:44:29 <Steven> Jack: Yes
15:44:45 <Steven> Charlie: The argument of our talk is that we don't need new machinery
15:45:22 <Steven> Jack: one thing that we want to mention in the talk, in section 5, is that the engine is 500 lines of code
15:45:30 <Steven> ... it is really easy
15:46:20 <Steven> ... implement setvalue and ATVs and so on
15:47:03 <Steven> Charlie：So if you have XForms, Events, SMIL, the rest is glue
15:47:08 <Steven> JackＹｅｓ
15:47:13 <Steven> ／ｍｅ　ｃｕｒｓｅｓ
15:47:17 <Steven> Steven has left #backplane
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15:47:37 <Steven> Charlie: So here is our form
15:48:50 <Steven> [Charlie demonstrates XForms, with voice output]
15:49:08 <Steven> [Running in Firefox]
15:49:13 <Steven> Charlie: This is event driven
15:49:35 <Steven> ... getting back from Voice, I have to write into the datamodel
15:50:32 <Steven> ... this is different from x+v
15:50:51 <Steven> ... where there is no round trips to the data model
15:51:31 <Steven> ... this is similar to how Jack does it via the datamodell
15:51:46 <Steven> ... which gives all the advantages of the constraints and so on
15:54:12 <Steven> [Charlie shows the code - link in the agenda]
15:55:04 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Sep/0010.html
15:57:32 <Steven> John: A shame you have to do rebuild, recalculate, revalidate, refresh
15:57:43 <Steven> Charlie: Not sure why the rebuild is needed
15:59:10 <Steven> John: XForms:label is meant to supply the voice system with a prompt
15:59:17 <Steven> Charlie: We can do that
15:59:26 <Steven> John: Even if it has a @ref?
15:59:28 <Steven> Charlie: Sure
16:00:20 <Steven> John: For demo purposes, it gives the talking point of using label
16:00:40 <Steven> Jack: Doesn't it break the MVC?
16:01:09 <Steven> ... since the voice part looks at the XForms view part
16:01:30 <Steven> Charlie: Longer debate, but Voice is presentation, so it is View
16:02:15 <jackjansen> also has to leave
16:02:42 <Zakim> -Kevin_Kelly
16:03:07 <Steven> John: Talking to accessibility people, it helps to be able to show the equivalence of visual and voice outputs if needed
16:03:29 <Steven> Charlie: I will do an outline, and we can review next week
16:03:42 <Steven> John: Which slide technology?
16:03:47 <Steven> Steven: HTML
16:04:24 <Steven> ... slidy
16:04:28 <Zakim> -JohnBoyer
16:04:29 <Zakim> -jackjansen
16:04:29 <Zakim> -Charlie
16:04:30 <Zakim> -Steven
16:04:31 <Zakim> -unl
16:04:31 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has ended
16:04:33 <Zakim> Attendees were Charlie, Steven, unl, jackjansen, +1.250.294.aabb, JohnBoyer, Kevin_Kelly
16:04:34 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/23-backplane-minutes.html Steven
17:23:03 <Zakim> Zakim has left #backplane