See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
<scribe> ScribeNick: oedipus
<Charlie> not so far, no
http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_create_accessible_JavaScript_widgets
<Charlie> lost you
1. Starting work on the XForms simplified syntax in the Ubiquity project. How (or is) this related to the Backplane?
2. Plans for demo(s) -- what can we show given current focus areas? a. custom controls for ubiquity library in YUI; b. Data model integration in YUI and Dojo; C. SMIL integration with XForms models; d. Extending the simple loan form with accessibility features (ARIA enabled loan form?)
3. Finalize goals for joint meetings at Tech Plenary -- given the above, which WGs to meet?
for reference: http://code.google.com/p/ubiquity-xforms/wiki/StorySimplifiedSyntax
CW: discuss ARIA and XForms -
talk about what it means to be "ARIA enabled" - bit more
context might lead into main topic - plan for TPAC 2008
... email with Debi Dahl - MMI WG or Voice/MMI joint meeting -
an hour on tuesday or thursday
... liaising with PF WG and Al Gilman
... John, web-apps APIs - forms discussion and backplane
discussion
... how does all of what we've discussed fit together;
cross-over with groups we want to meet with at TPAC2008
CW: connect dots between ARIA properties and xforms ubiquity project - loan example
GJR: ARIA discussion
CW: dojo starts with div - causes dojo runtime to expand that and then render DIV in accordance to script block
<Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-role/
<Steven> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/
CW: ubiquity xforms supports
data-binding, xforms notification events - controls extended to
accessibility APIs
... need to do more than support @role - can understand how
would hook together
... example of what should do for TPAC -
... interesting thread of investigation
... how much can be leveraged out of widgets in dojo
GJR: also YUI supporting ARIA
CW: data model work in dojo ported to YUI
CW: what makes sense and who to
contact at TPAC
... base work on ubiquity library itself - XML Events and work
towards embedding xforms functionality in AJAX and dojo
... ubiquity not yet fully implemented - can mix and match as
needed
... ubiquity cross-platform delivery programming model -
... custom control - how to use native components in calendars
or color picker - binding presentatino object using XForms;
data model refactoring data model; SMIL state oriented API -
bridging mechanism; not just GUI methodology but multi-modal
methodology
... decide on core scenario or demo
... thoughts from those on call - who to impact, what specifics
to discuss, what best demo to cover as many cases as
possible
... contact with Voice and WAI-PF
JB: not had a chance to put
anything together - interested in (a) modularizatino of
components - how much will be available; modules used
independently would have IDL libraries associated with them,
not just declarative markup
... interest in how the things actually work to create
behavior
... short of m12n, ubiquity library - through script libraries
able to achieve functionality which xforms rec specified; for
large classses of W3C technologies not being held back by UA
implementatino; scripts could wire together a centralized data
model using components from data libraries bilaterally
communicationg; W3C markups that automatically imply behaviors
from other W3C specs; xforms controls needs note that input is
"rude"
... messaging about core library without modularization
CW: isn't this all an XBL story?
using XBL in stripped down version due to lack of UA
support
... doesn't detract from core of JB's point; what we want is
clean runtime support for w3c supplied program letter
SP: second a lot of what JB said;
i see our main message being W3C architecture where W3C techs
can be plugged together; don't have to define techs
monolithically, but can be pieced together, important top-level
message; should be unified visino of how W3C should work
... second message to communicate is don't have to depend on UA
devs to achieve this - can still make happen because UAs are
extensible via script that is largely invisible/under the
covers
CW: could make points with non-modularized ubiquity - runs in YUI, has controls associated with it, but is still xforms 1.1 app
SP: dojo is extending UAs without UAs having anything to do with it; W3C technologies can be leveraged to do the very same thing
CW: added load method to trigger reloading - flags events when done
JB: that's good
CW: more confident - might have utility for non-xforms markup - especially from behavior POV; can talk about this with Forms WG
JB: flickr demo, too - uses
separate modules; don't need to have m12n complete to get out
message - W3C standards and features can be supported, m12n
promotes greater adoption and interoperability
... platform message - can make argument that AJAX/Javascript
library allows w3c techs to be implemented and provided without
the UA participation; allows us as community to find out what
works, what needws work, proof-of-value; may sway UA devs for
native support
... XBL skimmed down due to IE limitations; another data point
for native XBL - XForms component becaumes popular, will be
demand for native UA support
CW: messaging around core ubiquity library - embedding in YUI and CSS - refactoring data side would be strong message in aand of itself
JB: same class of small apps -
purchase order form - more dynamic than just repeat; if can
show accessiblity smarts, that is good third message to bring
to we apps group - creating content with xforms, gettting good
accessibility behavior, just using dojo library would have to
do yourself;
... first ring: javascript/AJAX for implementation of W3C
techs; second: modularization; third: accessibility automatic
behaviors can get amongst separate techs through platform
CW: extend ubiquity xforms with subset of notations
cak jackjansen
JJ: fourth ring follows from second and third - if write web apps modularized and with ARIA, can be leveraged to DI - could have big impact on way web app devs can get stuff out
JB: 1 strength is multi-modality (re-targetting) - always address from implementor side; JJ descirbed how web app community could do this with module replacement - verb part of our noun
CW: like the 4 rings as message
JB: how do you write a dojo app - adding controls to elements that ask for certain scripted behavior - showing simplified syntax very appealing to web apps group - looks like what they are used to (controls with attributeds) - can be done both ways
CW: content-generation model -
empty page with DIVs - content generated underneath div for
content generation; sitll there, but one step abstracted
... presentation generation
JB: there is nothing strange about set of W3C techs we are providing; looks, works, and smells like dojo
CW: content generation cycle -
about to get into design discussions - repeatable process with
multiple iterations over time
... looping manner aspect very useful
... backplane XG connection with authoring and composability of
w3c artifacts and how relate to web and serve as components
that can be mixed and matched; content generation at page
load
... thanks for pointing that out
... syntax, demos - what else?
... consider JJ's SMIL demo something in back pocket; could do
demo on my machine
... GJR follow up offline on accessibility stuff
GJR: yes will work on simple loan app
JB: one hope is might be able to ARIA enable processor
CW: do version of abstract control that is ARIA-enabled; loan form good because only few element types
JJ, accessibility equals accessibility; m12n equals modularization
<Steven> ack -
thanks steven
CW: can join Forms call
JB: might help if you do it; can
get Forms WG on thursday
... both backplane and forms meeting
CW: separate conversation around simplified syntax with HTML guys
JB: right
CW: anything else for
today?
... regrets for upcoming meetings?
... push ahead then
ADJOURNED
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/a11y/accessibility/G Found Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita Found ScribeNick: oedipus Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, Charlie, Jack_Jansen, [IBM], John_Boyer, Steven Present: Charlie Gregory_Rosmaita Jack_Jansen John_Boyer Steven Rahul_on_IRC Kevin_on_IRC Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Aug/0015.html Got date from IRC log name: 19 Aug 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-backplane-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]