RIF telecon 29 July 2008 -- 29 Jul 2008

<csma> Igor, would you scribe, please?

<IgorMozetic> csma, sorry I have no phone connection, just IRC

<josb> who is 6?

<AxelPolleres> very recently :-)

I can scribe

<csma> scribenick: StellaMitChell

<csma> scribenick: StellaMitchell

<csma> Scribe: Stella Mitchell

Admin

<csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jul/att-0175/2008-07-22-rif-minutes.html

csma: any objections to accepting minutes from last week?

<csma> PROPOSED: accept minutes of telecon July 22

<csma> RESOLVED: accept minutes of telecon July 22

<scribe> scribenick: StellaMitchell

csma: any agenda ammendments?
... none

Liaisons

no, no news

jos: Asking details about F2F11...where it will be held?

csma: It will be either in NYC or at Watson in Hawthorne
... the date is Sept 26-27

jos: It would be good to know which location it will be at

csma: Chris will be back next week, we will discuss it
... next week will still be within the 8 week advance rule
... any news from liaisons? ... none

Action review

csma: sandro not here
... action 530 about review of BLD

leora: hard drive crashed, has been without a computer for awhile, not able to review

jos: sept 26th is 8 weeks from this Friday

csma: we have the date and airport set, do we still have a problem

jos: only if w3c rules make it one

csma: should be ok, will try to get this resolved as soon as possible

action-516, chris not here

action-492 complete

<sandro> (Sorry, I'm in an OWL F2F meeting now.)

Publication plan

csma: have reviews on BLD and SWC
... mk, harold, jos, do you want to comment?

mk: took care of stella's comments

jos: the comments were after july 23rd freeze, and the resolutions were about 23rd version, so do we want to take these last changes into account in the publications?

csma: yes, sandro made new drafts yesterday. what kind of changes are they?

<AxelPolleres> Micheal fixed some broken links in DTB still and I fixed the few remaining ones only yesterday ... but that is purely editorial of course.

mk: they are stylistic. 23rd versions had formatting problems, they are not publishable

csma: jos, bld ok with you?

jos: I didn't look closely at changes since 23rd, Michael?

mk: added new signatures in section 6.1 (for external), but I would still consider it editorial

jos: yes, I'm ok with this

mk: still some things to fix, links etc

jos: these are not substantial changes that would affect publication. still a list numbering problem in section 6.1

mk: I think I fixed the 6.1 numbering problem yesterday, but I don't know how to make a new frozen version to check it

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as BLD LC, after correction of the HTML problem in section 6.1

<AxelPolleres> +1

<AxelPolleres> :-)

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as BLD LC, after correction of the HTML problem in section 6.1

<AxelPolleres> +1, DERI

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as BLD LC, after correction of the HTML problems

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<Harold> +1 (NRC)

<MichaelKifer> +1

<AxelPolleres> +1, DERI

<IgorMozetic> +1 (JSI)

<DaveReynolds> +1 (HP)

<GaryHallmark> +1 Oracle

<Hassan> +1

<Hassan> +1 (ILOG)

+1 by Leora

<csma> RESOLVED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as BLD LC, after correction of the HTML problem in section 6.1

you resolved not the lastest version

<csma> RESOLVED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as BLD LC, after correction of the HTML problems.

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as SWC LC.

<Harold> +1 (NRC)

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<AxelPolleres> +1, DERI

<GaryHallmark> +1 Oracle

<IgorMozetic> +1 (JSI)

<MichaelKifer> +1

<Hassan> +1 (ILOG)

<DaveReynolds> +1 (HP)

+1, IBM (Leora by phone)

<csma> RESOLVED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as SWC LC.

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as UCR 3rd public WD

<Harold> +1 (NRC)

jos: when are we going to publish LC of UCR?

csma: I think we decided to keep it a living document

jos: so it will forever be a working draft?

<sandro> (The final state of UCR could be Working Group Note. It doesn't need to go to Rec.)

csma: not necessarily forever, but for now, at least
... at the end of the working group, we will publish it as a working group note

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<Hassan> +1 (ILOG)

<AxelPolleres> +1 (DERI)

<IgorMozetic> +1 (JSI)

<MichaelKifer> +1

<GaryHallmark> +1 Oracle

<DaveReynolds> +1 (HP)

+1, IBM (Leora by phone)

<csma> RESOLVED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as UCR 3rd public WD

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as FLD 2nd public WD

mk: I found lots of html errors
... can we resolve it subject to correcting html errors?

csma: I would like us to have a deadline for fixing these errors. Sandro prefers to publish all documents in one batch.

mk: I will fix the html today, and will send Sandro a message. It will take a few iterations. Is there a way I can produce a frozen draft myself?

<AxelPolleres> +q

axel: is it true that if wiki version validates, the frozen version also validates?

mk: you are supposed to validate the version that Sandro produces

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/FLD,validate

<AxelPolleres> you should fix it in the wiki version!

mk: I validated the frozen version

jos, csma: you have to validate and checklinks the wiki version

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapchot as FLD 2nd public WD, after correction of HTML errors

mk: bld wiki version also has problems when I run validate
... several pages of them
... the tool doesn't seem to refer to the right line numbers

<AxelPolleres> click "show source"

<AxelPolleres> rigtht.

jos: use the "show source" option

mk: I will work on validation of wiki versions of bld and fld today

csma: send me a message when you're done

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as FLD 2nd public WD, after correction of HTML errors

<AxelPolleres> +1 (DERI)

<IgorMozetic> +1 (JSI)

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<Harold> +1 (NRC)

<Hassan> +1 (ILOG)

<MichaelKifer> +1

<DaveReynolds> +1 (HP)

+1 (IBM) (Leora by phone)

<GaryHallmark> +1 Oracle

<csma> RESOLVED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as FLD 2nd public WD, after correction of HTML errors

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as DTB FPWD

<AxelPolleres> small issue: http://www.w3.org/2007/rif#iri is not dereferenceable, do we want it to redirect to DTB? (not critical path)

<josb> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jul/0203.html

jos: I sent email about this, that there should not be links to non-human-readable content

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as DTB FPWD

axel: I made some link fixes in the wiki version, so need a few frozen draft of this

<sandro> OWL 2 Web Ontology Language: Semantic of OWL DL

<sandro> OWL 2 Web Ontology Language: Semantic of OWL Full

<sandro> oops wrong channel!

<AxelPolleres> sandro, wrong chat?

<AxelPolleres> :-)

csma: publication is made from wiki, not snapshots

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as DTB FPWD, after the links are fixed

jos: resolution is worded about snapshot

csma: snapshot just refers to which version we are talking about

<GaryHallmark> +1 Oracle

<AxelPolleres> +1 (DERI)

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<IgorMozetic> +1 (JSI)

<Hassan> +1 (ILOG)

<DaveReynolds> +1 (HP)

<Harold> +1 (NRC)

+1 (IBM) (leora by phone)

<MichaelKifer> +1

<csma> RESOLVED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as DTB FPWD, after the links are fixed

<csma> PROPOSED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as PRD FPWD.

<GaryHallmark> +1 Oracle

<Hassan> +1 (ILOG)

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<MichaelKifer> +1

<DaveReynolds> +1 (HP)

<IgorMozetic> +1 (JSI)

<Harold> +1 (NRC)

+1 (IBM) (Leora by phone)

<AxelPolleres> +1 (DERI)

<csma> RESOLVED: Publish the July 28 snapshot as PRD FPWD.

<Harold> Outstanding ed notes can be fixed with the extended wd2 eds list of PRD.

<AxelPolleres> yes, links are already fixed

DTB for PRD

csma: I don't think that much needs to be changed in either
... Axel, others, do you have an idea of the changes required?

axel: whether you would need additional ??

csma: I was asking a different question: does DTB depend on BLD and FLD having a model theoretic semantics?

axel: we define semantics of built-ins in model theoretic way

csma: so, if we want to adapt DTB for dialects that don't have model theoretic semantics, we would have to give an equivalent definition

axel: it would basically be reversing what we did. xpath/xqeury were defined in terms of operational semantics, we adapted for BLD

gary: matching theory (as bridge) needs to be related to BLD
... bld shows how fixed interpreations are viewed in model theory

csma: but bridge is in DTB it would serve for all dialects that have operational semantics

mk: I'm not sure that every dialect that doesn't have MT semantics will need the same bridge

gary: we need see if DTB can be generalized to work for both PRD and BLD

csma: yes, anything specific to PRD should be in PRD, but common things should be described in DTB in a way that works for both (and for future dialects)

mk: I think the current description is fairly applicable to PRD

<AxelPolleres> if you implement the built-ins (in an operational way... namely e.g. calling an xqath/xquery compliant library, you do get results that are compliant with the semantics). I have to admit that I still owe a proper review of PRD.

<AxelPolleres> +1 to mk

mk: don't have to make big changes, just change the way you talk about it

csma: I see your point
... can you post this to the list, about grounding, etc?

mk: I was thinking of extending FLD so it would cover PRD

gary: it just provides a model for the expressions, not the rules

<Hassan> I agree with Gary - there seems to be no issue w/ regards to PRD expressions comply with BLD's semantics

<csma> ACTION: Michael to provide a draft of how PRD expressions comply with FLD semantics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/29-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Michael

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. mkifer, msintek, merdmann)

<csma> ACTION: mkifer to provide a draft of how PRD expressions comply with FLD semantics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/29-rif-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-546 - Provide a draft of how PRD expressions comply with FLD semantics [on Michael Kifer - due 2008-08-05].

AOB

<Hassan> +1

<AxelPolleres> +1

<GaryHallmark> +1

csma: propose to adjourn

<MichaelKifer> +1

- DRAFT -

RIF telecon 29 July 2008

29 Jul 2008

Attendees

Contents

Admin

Liaisons

Action review

Publication plan

DTB for PRD

AOB

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output