IRC log of rif on 2008-07-22
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:48:44 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rif
- 14:48:44 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-rif-irc
- 14:49:46 [csma]
- zakim, this will be rif
- 14:49:46 [Zakim]
- ok, csma; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
- 14:50:09 [csma]
- Meeting: RIF telecon 22 July 2008
- 14:50:23 [csma]
- Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
- 14:51:11 [csma]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jul/0170.html
- 14:51:47 [Harold]
- Harold has joined #rif
- 14:52:20 [csma]
- csma has changed the topic to: 22 July 2008 RIF telecon Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jul/0170.html
- 14:53:28 [csma]
- Harold, would you scribe? Or do you think you will be too busy, as editor of BLD and FLD?
- 14:54:19 [csma]
- Regrets: Sandro Hawke ChrisWelty MohamedZergaoui
- 14:55:00 [csma]
- clear agenda
- 14:55:14 [csma]
- agendum+ Admin
- 14:55:23 [csma]
- Agendum+ Liaisons
- 14:55:36 [csma]
- Agendum+ Actions review
- 14:55:52 [csma]
- Agendum+ Publications
- 14:56:02 [csma]
- Agendum+ Core
- 14:56:15 [csma]
- Agendum+ AOB
- 14:57:50 [mdean]
- mdean has joined #rif
- 14:59:55 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
- 15:00:04 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 15:00:09 [csma]
- zakim, ??P5 is me
- 15:00:09 [Zakim]
- +csma; got it
- 15:00:20 [Zakim]
- +Mike_Dean
- 15:00:28 [Zakim]
- -csma
- 15:00:32 [Zakim]
- +csma
- 15:00:59 [josb]
- josb has joined #rif
- 15:01:08 [csma]
- scribe: Mike Dean
- 15:01:18 [Zakim]
- +josb
- 15:01:19 [csma]
- scribenick: Mike_Dean
- 15:01:50 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 15:02:45 [Hassan]
- Hassan has joined #rif
- 15:02:46 [AxelPolleres]
- AxelPolleres has joined #rif
- 15:02:56 [csma]
- Regrets: ChrisWelty LeoraMorgenstern MohamedZergaoui DaveReynolds AdrianPaschke
- 15:03:16 [Zakim]
- +LeoraMorgenstern
- 15:03:20 [StellaMitchell]
- StellaMitchell has joined #rif
- 15:03:20 [Zakim]
- +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
- 15:04:11 [Zakim]
- +[NRCC]
- 15:04:21 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 15:04:29 [StellaMitchell]
- zakim, ibm is temporarily me
- 15:04:29 [Zakim]
- +StellaMitchell; got it
- 15:04:31 [Zakim]
- -LeoraMorgenstern
- 15:05:03 [Harold]
- zakim, [NRCC] is me.
- 15:05:03 [Zakim]
- +Harold; got it
- 15:05:20 [mdean]
- zakim, next item
- 15:05:21 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from csma]
- 15:05:35 [csma]
- PROPOSED: accept minutes of telecon July 15
- 15:05:49 [csma]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jul/att-0159/RIF-telecon-minutes-15-July-2008.html
- 15:06:21 [Zakim]
- +??P0
- 15:06:22 [mdean]
- RESOLVED: accept minutes of telecon July 15
- 15:06:34 [mdean]
- zakim, next item
- 15:06:55 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Liaisons" taken up [from csma]
- 15:07:16 [mdean]
- Axel on OWL Liaison
- 15:07:49 [mdean]
- Axel: telecon yesterday with I18N and OWL WG on rif:text/owl:internationalizedString - minutes posted to WGs
- 15:07:57 [GaryHallmark]
- GaryHallmark has joined #rif
- 15:08:15 [mdean]
- ... most likely outcome: single overall datatype in both WGs using rdf namespace (like rdf:text)
- 15:08:27 [Zakim]
- +Gary_Hallmark
- 15:08:47 [mdean]
- ... should there be a datatype hierararchy for language tags? disregarded to avoid separating value spaces
- 15:09:10 [mdean]
- ... additional RIF builtins for language tag matching
- 15:09:32 [mdean]
- ... on-going discussion - meet again in 2 weeks
- 15:09:54 [MichaelKifer]
- MichaelKifer has joined #rif
- 15:10:55 [mdean]
- Sandro: enumerated attendees - nothing else to add
- 15:11:09 [AxelPolleres]
- minutes are here: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/21-i18n-minutes.html
- 15:12:00 [mdean]
- Christian: XQuery published new documents
- 15:12:14 [mdean]
- s/Christian/csma/
- 15:12:20 [AxelPolleres]
- q+
- 15:12:28 [csma]
- ack axel
- 15:13:00 [mdean]
- Axel: one draft of DTB included predicates to evaluate XQuery on XML literals
- 15:13:11 [mdean]
- csma: discuss in next draft
- 15:13:24 [mdean]
- no other liaison reports
- 15:13:45 [AxelPolleres]
- indeed such a built-in would have some tricky implications (dealing with sequences, etc.)
- 15:14:17 [MichaelKifer]
- is there a problem with the telecon system? It tells me that the passcode is invalid (several times)
- 15:14:40 [mdean]
- I used 74394 successfully
- 15:14:49 [sandro]
- Zakim, what is the code?
- 15:14:49 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 74394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sandro
- 15:15:02 [Zakim]
- +MichaelKifer
- 15:15:10 [MichaelKifer]
- ok
- 15:15:18 [Zakim]
- +Sandro.a
- 15:15:23 [GaryHallmark]
- zakim, who is talking?
- 15:15:24 [Zakim]
- -Sandro.a
- 15:15:29 [josb]
- zakim, mute MichaelKifer
- 15:15:29 [Zakim]
- MichaelKifer should now be muted
- 15:15:33 [Zakim]
- GaryHallmark, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (48%), Sandro (4%), MichaelKifer (59%)
- 15:15:50 [sandro]
- MichaelKifer, when you called in we all heard a loud continuous tone.
- 15:16:39 [MichaelKifer]
- I am using cell phone, but the reception is v good, so I dont know.
- 15:17:04 [AxelPolleres]
- yes
- 15:17:19 [sandro]
- It sounded like feedback, MichaelKifer. Is it possibe your speaker and mic are too close or echoing or something?
- 15:17:50 [mdean]
- Sandro updating actions in action tracker
- 15:21:41 [mdean]
- csma: shortest action list in a very long time
- 15:22:57 [mdean]
- zakim, next item
- 15:22:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Actions review" taken up [from csma]
- 15:23:15 [mdean]
- zakim, next item
- 15:23:15 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 was just opened, mdean
- 15:23:24 [mdean]
- publications
- 15:23:50 [mdean]
- zakim, next item
- 15:23:50 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 was just opened, mdean
- 15:24:09 [mdean]
- csma: difficult to keep track of changes
- 15:24:24 [mdean]
- ... reopen period of review
- 15:24:31 [mdean]
- ... new vote on Last Call as early as possible
- 15:24:34 [josb]
- q+
- 15:24:40 [Hassan]
- I second this motion for more time to reevaluate the latest copy to be frozen
- 15:24:52 [mdean]
- ... for BLD
- 15:25:13 [josb]
- q-
- 15:25:22 [josb]
- q+
- 15:25:28 [sandro]
- q+
- 15:25:28 [csma]
- ack josb
- 15:25:29 [MichaelKifer]
- q+
- 15:26:08 [mdean]
- josb: also reopen DTB
- 15:26:37 [mdean]
- csma: DTB is first public WD - could be treated differently
- 15:27:00 [Hassan]
- I also agree with Josb's - to harmonize all documents as soon as possible
- 15:27:21 [mdean]
- s/reopen DTB/reopen DTB and SWC/
- 15:27:44 [mdean]
- josb: cannot use F2F resolution because more substantive changes have been made for BLD, FLD, and SWC
- 15:27:44 [csma]
- ack sandro
- 15:28:10 [mdean]
- sandro: good idea to publish all at the same time - for external readers
- 15:28:20 [Harold]
- +1 to Sandro
- 15:28:23 [mdean]
- ... worth delaying 2 weeks, but perhaps not more
- 15:28:53 [mdean]
- ... revote on everything, but don't change decisions from last F2F
- 15:29:04 [mdean]
- ... vote no only if new information
- 15:29:07 [AxelPolleres]
- BTW: or all publications we need to fix the links (from wiki-links to the WD/LC) but that's probably a minor technical thing, right? Is this automatized?
- 15:29:27 [josb]
- Axel, yes this is automated
- 15:29:33 [sandro]
- Sandro: I'm okay with another vote, as long as we're clear that the only reason to vote NO is because something was changed that should not have been changed, given the resolutions at the last F2F.
- 15:30:18 [mdean]
- csma: UCR and PRD did not change - have been waiting for almost a month
- 15:30:36 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:30:36 [Zakim]
- MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
- 15:30:38 [csma]
- ack michael
- 15:30:41 [mdean]
- ... could differentiate between Last Call
- 15:31:04 [josb]
- q+
- 15:31:10 [mdean]
- MKifer: Stella reviewing previous version
- 15:31:21 [csma]
- ack josb
- 15:31:31 [mdean]
- josb: vote next Tuesday (soon as possible)
- 15:31:35 [StellaMitchell]
- s/previous/current/
- 15:31:41 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:31:41 [Zakim]
- MichaelKifer should now be muted
- 15:31:45 [MichaelKifer]
- q-
- 15:32:04 [AxelPolleres]
- +1 vote soon and get things out, unless serious concerns raised until then.
- 15:32:11 [mdean]
- csma: name new reviewers (1 week for reviews, 1 week for changes) - or announce that we will vote next week
- 15:32:42 [csma]
- q?
- 15:32:59 [mdean]
- sandro: some changes on Wiki since last frozen versions
- 15:33:12 [mdean]
- ... could do new freeze after telecon
- 15:33:15 [Zakim]
- + +0208995aaaa
- 15:33:18 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:33:18 [Zakim]
- MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
- 15:33:37 [markproctor]
- markproctor has joined #rif
- 15:33:53 [mdean]
- josb: Stella reviews after freeze - editorial changes
- 15:33:57 [Hassan]
- Makes sense to make it swiftly this time on the older docs (BLD, DTB) - more time may be needed on the newer (e.g. PRD)
- 15:35:26 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:35:26 [Zakim]
- MichaelKifer should now be muted
- 15:35:31 [csma]
- q?
- 15:36:20 [mdean]
- Harold: everyone should look at newly frozen versions
- 15:36:46 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:36:46 [Zakim]
- MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
- 15:37:10 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:37:10 [Zakim]
- MichaelKifer should now be muted
- 15:37:36 [mdean]
- csma: probably with JavaScript in UCR
- 15:37:46 [mdean]
- sandro: haven't looked at this yet
- 15:38:10 [mdean]
- ... copied from OWL draft that was already published - should be easy to resolve
- 15:39:10 [josb]
- q+
- 15:40:01 [mdean]
- csma: wait 1 hour to add comment from Gary on PRD
- 15:40:02 [csma]
- ack josb
- 15:40:51 [mdean]
- josb: section 6.1 numbered list is incorrect (but OK on Wiki) - also subnumbering
- 15:41:22 [mdean]
- sandro: pseudo markup problem
- 15:41:28 [mdean]
- ... BLD has 91 HTML errors
- 15:41:38 [mdean]
- ... probably caused by running Tidy
- 15:41:39 [sandro]
- append ,validate
- 15:41:52 [sandro]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/SWC,validate
- 15:42:08 [StellaMitchell]
- list numbering problems in sections 3.2 and 3.3 in BLD also
- 15:42:39 [AxelPolleres]
- I assume ALL editors shall do that.
- 15:42:57 [mdean]
- sandro: all editors should at least validate documents
- 15:43:30 [mdean]
- ... do now - formal actions not needed
- 15:44:14 [josb]
- SWC now has valid HTML
- 15:44:42 [josb]
- q+
- 15:44:48 [csma]
- ack josb
- 15:44:54 [josb]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/SWC,checklinks
- 15:45:55 [mdean]
- sandro: links should be to other Wiki pages, will be converted to TR at publication
- 15:46:13 [mdean]
- zakim, next item
- 15:46:13 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Core" taken up [from csma]
- 15:47:29 [mdean]
- csma: questions from Gary - When will we have XML Schema for PRD? Will this include Core? Intersection of PRD and BLD? Specified directly?
- 15:48:20 [mdean]
- ... Having BLD XML Schema import Core would be a substantial change
- 15:48:35 [mdean]
- ... BLD Schema doesn't separate Core
- 15:48:47 [mdean]
- s/include/import/
- 15:49:05 [mdean]
- sandro: think we could do this after Last Call
- 15:49:09 [mdean]
- ... editorial at the schema level
- 15:49:17 [Harold]
- I agree, if the defined language is the same, such a re-modularization is editorial.
- 15:49:24 [mdean]
- csma: not a showstopper for BLD last call
- 15:49:47 [mdean]
- csma: should Core be a separate document
- 15:49:57 [mdean]
- s/document/document?/
- 15:50:43 [mdean]
- sandro: preferable to separate, but not required - can we find an editor?
- 15:51:28 [csma]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/48
- 15:51:28 [AxelPolleres]
- Can/Shall we decide on that in the next F2F? I think this needs more discussion. I don't have a clear picture at this moment what the exact intersection is, to be honest.
- 15:51:30 [mdean]
- csma: is it pure intersection or are some common things not in Core? issue 48 about classification constructs
- 15:52:05 [josb]
- q+
- 15:52:11 [csma]
- ack josb
- 15:52:17 [mdean]
- csma: no urgency to discuss this today
- 15:52:43 [GaryHallmark]
- q+
- 15:53:21 [Harold]
- From the BLD point of view, we had: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/index.php?title=BLD&oldid=670#Appendix:_Subdialects_of_RIF-BLD
- 15:53:30 [csma]
- ack gary
- 15:54:28 [mdean]
- Gary: Core dynamically defined as intersection of all standard dialects - at least for now
- 15:54:36 [mdean]
- ... driven by real use case
- 15:54:54 [mdean]
- s/use case/use case of published dialects/
- 15:55:32 [mdean]
- no volunteers to edit a new document
- 15:55:46 [mdean]
- axel: need discussion at F2F meeting
- 15:55:52 [mdean]
- s/need/needs/
- 15:56:01 [mdean]
- ... need to review further
- 15:57:29 [GaryHallmark]
- I would rather wait for that 3rd or 4th dialect...
- 15:58:14 [mdean]
- gary: danger in throwing things out prematurely
- 15:58:47 [Hassan]
- +1 on adjourning
- 15:58:49 [AxelPolleres]
- +1
- 15:58:52 [GaryHallmark]
- +1
- 15:58:55 [mdean]
- adjourned
- 15:58:57 [Zakim]
- -Gary_Hallmark
- 15:58:59 [Zakim]
- -josb
- 15:59:01 [Zakim]
- -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
- 15:59:01 [Zakim]
- -StellaMitchell
- 15:59:02 [Zakim]
- -Harold
- 15:59:03 [Zakim]
- -AxelPolleres
- 15:59:04 [Zakim]
- -MichaelKifer
- 15:59:21 [csma]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 15:59:30 [csma]
- eesagent, make minutes
- 15:59:43 [csma]
- rrsagent, meke minutes
- 15:59:43 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'meke minutes', csma. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 15:59:55 [csma]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:59:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-rif-minutes.html csma
- 16:01:03 [csma]
- scribenick: mdean
- 16:01:16 [csma]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:01:16 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-rif-minutes.html csma
- 16:01:55 [csma]
- s/Mike_Dean/mdean/
- 16:02:03 [csma]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:02:03 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-rif-minutes.html csma
- 16:02:46 [sandro]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 16:02:46 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been csma, Mike_Dean, josb, Sandro, LeoraMorgenstern, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, StellaMitchell, Harold, AxelPolleres, Gary_Hallmark, MichaelKifer,
- 16:02:49 [Zakim]
- ... +0208995aaaa
- 16:02:59 [csma]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:02:59 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-rif-minutes.html csma
- 16:04:56 [sandro]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 16:04:56 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see csma, Mike_Dean, Sandro, +0208995aaaa
- 16:05:48 [sandro]
- zakim, aaaa is MarkProctor
- 16:05:48 [Zakim]
- +MarkProctor; got it
- 16:06:15 [Zakim]
- -MarkProctor
- 16:06:29 [csma]
- zakim, who is on the call
- 16:06:29 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is on the call', csma
- 16:06:30 [Zakim]
- -Mike_Dean
- 16:06:45 [csma]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 16:06:45 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see csma, Sandro
- 16:12:58 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 16:12:59 [Zakim]
- -csma
- 16:13:00 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
- 16:13:01 [Zakim]
- Attendees were csma, Mike_Dean, josb, Sandro, LeoraMorgenstern, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, StellaMitchell, Harold, AxelPolleres, Gary_Hallmark, MichaelKifer, +0208995aaaa, MarkProctor
- 16:26:53 [csma]
- csma has left #rif