IRC log of svg on 2008-07-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

10:30:22 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
10:30:22 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-irc
10:30:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
10:30:24 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
10:30:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
10:30:26 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start now
10:30:27 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
10:30:27 [trackbot]
Date: 17 July 2008
10:30:39 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started
10:30:45 [Zakim]
+??P0
10:30:48 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
10:30:51 [ed_]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
10:30:51 [Zakim]
+ed_; got it
10:31:18 [Zakim]
+??P4
10:31:21 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P4 is me
10:31:21 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
10:31:56 [Zakim]
+??P5
10:32:02 [aemmons]
zakim, ??p5 is me
10:32:02 [Zakim]
+aemmons; got it
10:34:04 [ed_]
Zakim, who's here?
10:34:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ed_, Doug_Schepers, heycam, aemmons
10:34:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, aemmons, ed_, shepazu, heycam, anthony, ed_work, trackbot
10:34:50 [aemmons]
Scribe: Andrew Emmons
10:35:07 [aemmons]
Chair: Erik
10:35:12 [ed_]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0047.html
10:35:17 [aemmons]
Regrets: Anthony
10:36:21 [aemmons]
Topic: SVGTextContentElement errata (ISSUE-2008)
10:37:13 [aemmons]
ED: It was changed slightly to be more similar to selecet substring
10:37:22 [aemmons]
ED: Not exactly what Hixie was asking for
10:38:06 [shepazu]
agenda+ test suite update
10:38:06 [aemmons]
ED: We have 3 errata items, you're saying they are done already?
10:38:07 [ed_]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement-characters
10:38:30 [aemmons]
CM: First one was adding the UTF-16 code unit language
10:39:18 [aemmons]
ED: Looks OK
10:39:26 [aemmons]
ED: I suggest we move it to closed
10:39:35 [ed_]
s/closed/proposed/
10:39:51 [aemmons]
DS: No objection
10:41:20 [aemmons]
RESOLUTION: Will accept UTF-16 errata item for SVGTextContentElement, moved to proposed
10:41:31 [ed_]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement-getnumberofchars
10:41:41 [aemmons]
ED: Next is getNumberOfChars erratum
10:42:10 [aemmons]
CM: Was an existing one, took reference out because it is handled by the general paragraph in the previous errata
10:42:22 [aemmons]
ED: Ok
10:42:48 [aemmons]
CM: Brought it back from proposed for this change
10:43:01 [aemmons]
ED: Looks good, any objections?
10:43:18 [aemmons]
DS: No
10:43:46 [aemmons]
RESOLUTION: Will move getNUmberofChars erratum back to proposed
10:43:49 [ed_]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications
10:44:26 [aemmons]
CM: I added a bit where it mentions getting half of a pair
10:44:29 [aemmons]
ED: Looks ok
10:44:39 [aemmons]
ED: That was the only change you made?
10:44:40 [ed_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0030.html
10:44:41 [aemmons]
CM: Yes
10:44:47 [aemmons]
ED: I made other changes before that
10:45:01 [aemmons]
ED: There were comments on this
10:45:21 [aemmons]
ED: Does it clamp or give an exception
10:45:30 [aemmons]
ED: Was changed before to not throw an exception
10:46:03 [aemmons]
ED: But, with the current wording you can get an exception in a given case
10:46:14 [aemmons]
DS: I did not find that case compelling
10:46:16 [ed_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0038.html
10:46:28 [ed_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0040.html
10:46:36 [ed_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0041.html
10:46:55 [aemmons]
CM: Now, always throwing unless you start invalid and run off the end
10:47:09 [aemmons]
ED: Could make a special case for 0 as the number of characters
10:47:24 [aemmons]
CM: I can't see it being more consistent one way or another
10:48:50 [aemmons]
CM: Can't think of a good reason whyit would be either way in particular
10:49:07 [Zakim]
+??P6
10:49:38 [aemmons]
ED: If you do select substring you really want to know a selection is made, a reason to have exception there
10:49:48 [aemmons]
ED: But getSubString you're really expecting a value back
10:51:07 [shepazu]
Zakim, + is jwatt
10:51:07 [Zakim]
sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+'
10:51:25 [shepazu]
Zakim, +??P6 is jwatt
10:51:25 [Zakim]
sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+??P6'
10:51:54 [aemmons]
ED: I would be more in favor of not throwing an exception, but also do not feel it is that critical, could leave as is
10:52:34 [aemmons]
ED: So, we'll leave this one open for more feedback/thought by the group
10:53:15 [jwatt]
jwatt has joined #svg
10:53:26 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P6 is jwatt
10:53:26 [Zakim]
+jwatt; got it
10:54:05 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Agenda
10:54:15 [shepazu]
Zakim, ??P6 is jwatt
10:54:15 [Zakim]
I already had ??P6 as jwatt, shepazu
10:54:21 [shepazu]
oops
10:56:03 [shepazu]
Issue: find sane values for getSubStringLength and selectSubString
10:56:03 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-2017 - Find sane values for getSubStringLength and selectSubString ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2017/edit .
11:01:12 [aemmons]
ACTION: CM to move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed
11:01:12 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - CM
11:01:12 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. charles, cmccorma)
11:01:25 [aemmons]
ACTION: Heycam to move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed
11:01:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2101 - Move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-24].
11:01:47 [ed_]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#mention-live-values
11:01:56 [aemmons]
Topic: SVGTransformList.consolidate, and clarifications of insertItemBefore and replaceItem
11:02:08 [aemmons]
ED: Is an old one
11:02:53 [aemmons]
ED: I made this clarification based on feedback by JS
11:03:10 [aemmons]
ED: Have a test case
11:03:20 [ed_]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/insertItemBefore.svg
11:03:45 [aemmons]
ED: insertItemBefore has the same issue
11:04:45 [ed_]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/test-cases/consolidate.svg
11:05:20 [aemmons]
ED: Second change,consolidate returns a new object
11:06:56 [aemmons]
ED: Any problems with moving this to proposed?
11:07:46 [aemmons]
RESOLUTION: Will move SVGTransformList.consolidate, and clarifications of insertItemBefore and replaceItem errata to proposed
11:08:33 [ed_]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix
11:08:39 [aemmons]
Topic: Clarify liveness of setMatrix and createSVGTransformFromMatrix methods
11:08:52 [aemmons]
ED: Are these live or not?
11:09:07 [aemmons]
ED: Partially related to the previous one
11:11:32 [aemmons]
ED: DOes this look ok?
11:12:11 [aemmons]
ED: Proposed resolution is to just copy the values, do not adopt SVGMatrix object
11:12:19 [aemmons]
ED: Robert seemed OK with this change
11:12:28 [aemmons]
ED: All implementations I tested behaved this way
11:12:52 [aemmons]
CM: SOunds good
11:13:22 [aemmons]
RESOLUTION: Move Clarify liveness of setMatrix and createSVGTransformFromMatrix methods errata to proposed
11:14:23 [aemmons]
Topic: Timeline for 1.1SE publication/review (and move of errata into public cvs)
11:15:01 [aemmons]
ED: I want to get the spec out that incorporates all of the errata - to have it out of they way to move on to other things
11:15:06 [aemmons]
DS: Sounds like a good plan
11:15:16 [aemmons]
DS: What timeline do you think is reasonable
11:15:47 [aemmons]
ED: Anthony has done part of this work already, wanted to get status
11:15:49 [ed_]
ACTION: Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to proposed
11:15:49 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Move
11:16:01 [ed_]
ACTION: ed to Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to proposed
11:16:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2102 - Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to proposed [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-24].
11:16:04 [aemmons]
DS: Perhaps move to Tuesday?
11:16:26 [aemmons]
DS: Would be nice for SVG Open
11:20:40 [aemmons]
Topic: SVG in HTML feedback
11:21:02 [aemmons]
ED: We have some feedback already
11:21:11 [aemmons]
ED: I would say it is fairly positive
11:21:14 [aemmons]
DS: Fairly
11:21:25 [aemmons]
ED: Are comments, some parts not perfect, some wrong, etc
11:21:33 [aemmons]
ED: I have made some update to the proposal
11:21:38 [ed_]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html
11:22:12 [aemmons]
ED: This was raised in the bug tracker for HTML WG
11:22:20 [aemmons]
ED: Not sure if there is group discussion yet
11:22:51 [aemmons]
DS: They do not typically have discussions at this level
11:23:05 [aemmons]
DS: Usually not low level stuff
11:23:58 [aemmons]
DS: My concern is that - either no discussion happens and Hixie can do what he wants or,
11:24:27 [aemmons]
DS: ( done in a way that is not in the spirit of the proposal )
11:24:46 [aemmons]
DS: Or, delays and does nothing and people implement towards that
11:24:54 [aemmons]
DS: Which has happened already
11:25:32 [aemmons]
AE: Which is why we watned it out of an editors draft in the first place
11:27:03 [aemmons]
DS: We need to be pro-active to make sure it is handled in a timely fashion so that the final proposal acceptable by the HTML WG is implemented, not the commented out previous proposal
11:27:24 [shepazu]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0197.html
11:27:37 [aemmons]
DS: It is interesting - an e-mail by Chris Wilson regarding this
11:29:17 [ed_]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html
11:29:24 [aemmons]
ED: If we can have a look at the change log for the proposal
11:29:31 [ed_]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.11&r2=1.12&f=h
11:30:07 [aemmons]
ED: One comment from JS, I now defined SVG previx on SVG root element
11:30:14 [ed_]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.12&r2=1.13&f=h
11:30:37 [aemmons]
ED: Next is feedback from implementer of previous proposal
11:30:41 [aemmons]
ED: GOod feedback
11:31:24 [aemmons]
ED: Took some of his comments and incorperated them into the proposal
11:33:03 [ed_]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.13&r2=1.14&f=h
11:33:08 [aemmons]
ACTION: Erik to e-mail specific feedback responses and also to e-mail new updated proposal to www and html lists, given links to live doc and diff
11:33:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2103 - E-mail specific feedback responses and also to e-mail new updated proposal to www and html lists, given links to live doc and diff [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-24].
11:33:57 [aemmons]
ACTION: Doug to nag HTML WG about proposal
11:33:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2104 - Nag HTML WG about proposal [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-07-24].
11:36:12 [aemmons]
Topic: Testsuite
11:36:24 [aemmons]
ED: Saw a few tests created, good
11:36:29 [ed_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0046.html
11:36:33 [aemmons]
ED: I went through scripting coverage a bit
11:36:41 [aemmons]
ED: Added 1 test for listener element
11:36:58 [aemmons]
ED: Testing that no special handling of listener element
11:40:06 [aemmons]
ED: I will continue making tests in this area
11:40:11 [aemmons]
ED: AE, you added a few?
11:41:08 [aemmons]
AE: Yes, added a few progress event tests and a timer test. Will now work on runtime sync tests
11:41:56 [aemmons]
DS: I added a draft of mine in CVS
11:42:10 [aemmons]
CM: I added some SVGGlobal tests
11:42:26 [aemmons]
CM: binaryToString one needs close attention
11:42:48 [aemmons]
CM: ParseXML Batik's implementation is simple, matches what ASV used to do
11:43:17 [aemmons]
CM: Tests tricky XML 1.1 stuff as well
11:43:43 [heycam]
http://www.w3.org/mid/20080717004454.GA10624@arc.mcc.id.au
11:44:31 [aemmons]
AE: Your suggestion sounds reasonable
11:45:29 [aemmons]
ACTION: Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used
11:45:29 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Update
11:45:37 [aemmons]
ACTION: Cameron Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used
11:45:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2105 - Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-24].
11:46:26 [aemmons]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage
11:50:08 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-220-t.svg and http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-230-t.svg
11:50:23 [aemmons]
DS: One of my tests - I would like to discuss
11:50:35 [aemmons]
DS: CM had written a test for textEvent
11:50:51 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-207-t.svg
11:51:03 [aemmons]
DS: I made 220 and 230 to fill in the gaps
11:52:00 [aemmons]
DS: WIth this, press SHIFT key, claims it passes but not quite correct
11:52:44 [aemmons]
DS: textInput not just keyboard - voice, clipboard could use text
11:52:49 [aemmons]
DS: keyboard is different
11:52:56 [aemmons]
CM: I'd say this is a bug in Batik
11:53:07 [aemmons]
DS: We should specify that it is not a keyboard thing
11:53:21 [aemmons]
DS: Should only say it is character values
11:53:27 [aemmons]
DS: How would you test for that?
11:54:00 [aemmons]
DS: perhaps check all range of characters
11:54:14 [aemmons]
CM: Tough thing to test, yes
11:54:33 [aemmons]
DS: Good enough as is for a positive test, not a good negative test
11:54:58 [aemmons]
CM: Not sure it is possible to test an event is not sent if no text is available
11:56:11 [aemmons]
AE: Could update the pass criteria
11:56:16 [aemmons]
CM: Yes
11:56:18 [aemmons]
DS: Yes
11:56:24 [aemmons]
DS: Add a second pass criteria
11:56:36 [ed_]
DOMCharacterDataModified
11:57:54 [ed_]
http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-MutationEvent
11:58:12 [aemmons]
DS: I should point out what the relationship is
12:03:29 [Zakim]
-ed_
12:03:30 [Zakim]
-heycam
12:03:32 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
12:03:34 [Zakim]
-aemmons
12:03:44 [heycam]
RRSAgent, make minutes
12:03:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html heycam
12:03:47 [Zakim]
-jwatt
12:03:48 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended
12:03:50 [Zakim]
Attendees were Doug_Schepers, ed_, heycam, aemmons, jwatt
12:05:00 [shepazu]
Issue: create textInput test to make sure only characters (not all keyboard events) are input
12:05:00 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-2018 - Create textInput test to make sure only characters (not all keyboard events) are input ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2018/edit .
12:05:39 [shepazu]
Issue: create keyIdentifier test to make sure the right values are reported
12:05:39 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-2019 - Create keyIdentifier test to make sure the right values are reported ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2019/edit .
12:07:13 [shepazu]
Issue: Create keyIdentifier test to make sure that keydown events are still sent when another key is pressed
12:07:13 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-2020 - Create keyIdentifier test to make sure that keydown events are still sent when another key is pressed ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2020/edit .
12:19:09 [shepazu]
heycam: you there?
12:47:49 [heycam]
shepazu, just about to go to bed
12:47:57 [shepazu]
ok
12:48:08 [heycam]
i'll be online tmr
12:48:12 [heycam]
night
12:48:16 [shepazu]
nn
13:57:31 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has joined #svg