See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 03 July 2008
<scribe> Scribe: anthony
<shepazu> ??P is me
AE: I made the request to discuss
this
... so we could have a test fest before SVG open
... time is running out for that
... wanted to see what the group thought about a test fest
CL: So I thought we decided not
to do it
... because of difficulties with people traveling
AE: Wasn't sure, because on a call you could send someone
CL: Just wondering if it's a bit
late to do one
... but I can see value in doing it
AE: It's all a bit
connected
... because I thought we'd have the test suite published
... it's probably too late to have travel for sure
... so maybe there's another way of doing it if we are still
keen
... even then there may not be time to do that
... because we have to send a request for implementations
CL: We need to give people
advanced notice
... in some ways I'd rather we organise something later
... just to give people the notice they need
... first thing is to get the test suite published
AE: We also said there would be a
Beta
... with a link with known issues
... the blocking item is simply putting it up
ED: So what's the hold up with
the test suite?
... it's not published?
AE: Is it something that only a team or staff contact can do?
CL: Yes it is
... planning to fix that
... once it's in the public repository
... I guess I could ask Sys Team to give access
AE: I guess Doug is busy with a
lot of other stuff
... if it was in the public repository
... might be able to be published
CL: Problem is when you check it
into the new place
... the revision numbering is lost
AE: Would be great if we get the
test suite published
... is there a ball park date for holding the test fest
ED: Ball park date would be after SVG Open?
CL: Yeah, after it
... would the test fest be a face-to-face meeting?
ED: I guess it would be useful
CL: September was mentioned
... but I have a management meeting 15 - 17 Sep
... something around that is ok
... either the beginning or end is fine with me
DS: We are having a F2F before
SVG Open
... what are we doing there?
ED: We could have some time allocated for it
AE: We'd want this test fest to
be the final one
... so it could take some time
... so at the F2F we should focus on getting the test suite
<scribe> ... done
ED: So it sounds like we should
work on tests
... to get the suite done
... at the F2F
AE: If we release a Beta 2 some
time soon
... we could work on the test suite
CL: Would be good to announce a
Beta 3 at the F2F
... I'm think the 20th - 24th Oct is the TP
... one possibility is to organise the test fest near
that
... not sure if that is too far in advance
AG: Not a bad idea
CL: We'd be talking about the
week around the 13th Oct
... how long will we need?
ED: 4 - 5 days probably
AE: Are people good for going 2 weeks at a time
DS: I think being worn out before the TP might not be a good idea
CL: If we did the test fest Mon -
Thur
... it would give us 3 days before TPac
AE: Is the date mid Oct too late for publication of the spec
CL: Whether is too late depends
on how many pass we have
... at the test fest
... traditionally they produce their implementation
report
... then request to go to PR
... [Explains process]
... if we were in PR in Dec that's fine with me
... it's just a notice to say we have 6 weeks to go
DS: We should really shoot for the end of the year
ED: In that case we should go with the end of Sep
AE: As CL said we may run the
risk of not having 2 implementations for every feature
... that said it would nice to have a report sooner or
later
... would be good task implementers where they are up to
... but maybe if a staff person asked it would be good
... so it sounds like Sep is probably the better time
ED: Do we want to decide on a
location?
... or do we want to discuss it at the next F2F
AE: Might be a bit tight at the F2F
DS: I'm happy to host or Andrew can you host?
AE: I'd be happy to host
CL: What about the week of the 29th Sep?
DS: Anytime around then is fine with me
AE: 29th sounds ok
... we can decide on another call the exact location
ED: Sounds ok
RESOLUTION: We will hold a test fest on the 29th Sep to the 2nd Oct somewhere in North America
CL: We should announce that
ASAP
... and say that further details are soon to follow
AE: We should have time line for registering it for it
<scribe> ACTION: Emmons to announce that we will he holding a test fest from the 29th Sep to 2nd Oct and that we will provide further details soon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2080 - Announce that we will he holding a test fest from the 29th Sep to 2nd Oct and that we will provide further details soon [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-07-10].
<ed_> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgF2Fnuremburg2008/
<ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Nuremburg_F2F_2008
DS: I would like to have something to show at SVG Open to show progress
CL: Form is now open
... for registration
ED: Do we need to something out for the public list to get people to sign up for it?
AE: We should send a reminder to the public working group list
ED: Ok I can do that
ED: I did an update to the proposal
<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html
ED: you can still see the old proposal
<ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html
AE: Looks like we've taken the approach of what needs to change in HTML5
ED: It's using the XML
parser
... basically it's just a black box
... that says how to handle stuff the HTML parser doesn't
understand
AE: Should we have a highlevel note for that?
CL: It would be good to list the
requirements at the top of the proposal
... such as round trip copy and past of SVG
... to and from the document
DS: We're not trying to HTML5
ED: It would be good if people
could make up dates to this
... is this a subset of SVG?
... No you can paste any SVG fragment
... there are somethings you can't do because HTML doesn't
support name spaces
DS: So this does not introduce name spaces to HTML5?
ED: It does not
DS: So if have some output from Inkscape and it has all the extra metadata how does it handle that?
ED: That will still work
... it will still be put into the DOM
DS: Except it will not be name spaced
ED: It will be name spaced
AE: It's adding it to the
DOM
... but wouldn't the DOM need that anyway for the Xlink
serialisation
CL: The crucial thing for this is
that once you've identified
... root node that you want to put in
... that all the other name spaces within it are
preserved
... so we are not trying to put in name spaces into HTML5 but
preserve the name spacing
... for content within the SVG element
... should have some examples
ED: I think this is not a bad
start
... but it's not complete
DS: So Charles was saying that you could use foreignObject and use a switch with a required feature
ED: Problem is malformed content
CM: You could put the
foreignObject at the end of the SVG
... there might be some other tricky things with Font and
TextArea
CL: I think it would be useful to
document this
... and Doug's fallback idea
... and give pros and cons of both
DS: So font shouldn't show up right
CM: So if we mandated elsewhere
that default style sheets have that on it
... so if these things get parsed and have name spaces set
properly
... then you could use that to determine where it came from
DS: I would really like to see us present this in a week or two
ED: Would be good to flesh some of this out
DS: Are you pretty confident with this algorithm?
ED: I think it will work
... What's left is to provide examples
... and authoring guidelines
DS: How about we try to have this in place by next Thursday?
ED: Sounds good
... I guess I can try to fit in some examples
... it's a good idea to keep it in public CVS and work on it
there
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to incorporate what we discussed into the the SVG-in-HTML proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2081 - Incorporate what we discussed into the the SVG-in-HTML proposal [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-10].
ED: Haven't had time to read it
CL: I haven't had a careful read though it
DS: I'll send in my second review to this list
<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0168.html
<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0153.html
<heycam> ISSUE-2004?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2004 -- Define SVGMatrix behavior when using float edge cases -- RAISED
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2004
ED: Cameron had an action to look at this
CM: I did
... the result was that mail
... there is no need for infinity and NAN values
... so we can define that at the top of the chapter
ED: I have not issues with your
findings
... looks fine to me
CM: Not sure on the type of exception that should be thrown
<heycam> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#item09
CM: when one of these values is passed in
AE: I think at one point there
was wording about
... what exceptions was thrown
... I know that wording was in the traits
ED: It's in A3.1
... [Reads out part]
... although it doesn't say anything about infinity
CM: We could add wording in that said
<heycam> CM: If we could replace that "signalling NaN" text with something that says if an infinity or NaN is passed in as a float, then a certain exception is thrown
ED: I would prefer not to add the
wording into A3.1
... because it says "attribute property and
normalisation"....
... but I guess it's ok
... if you consider a normalisation a call to any method
<ed_> s/attribute property and normalisation/attribute/property normalisation/
AG: Result?
... add that wording?
ED: Yes we should add that wording
CM: What do implementations do at the moment for not supported error?
AE: I think that with the trait
tests
... we do what the current spec says
... I think it might be non-trivial to change that
... since it's in JSR226
... and that's already in the field
CM: So I guess if someone can confirm that in 226
AE: Yes I can confirm that
CM: In that case we should chose
that
... there was something slightly related that I mentioned in
the email
... and that was for negative zeros
<ed_> javascript:alert(document.createElementNS("http://www.w3.org/2000/svg", "svg").setCurrentTime(parseFloat("asdasd")))
ED: It seems that Opera is doing
the not supported error
... so this will give you the not supported error in the
console
CM: So would you be willing to
change the other one
... to type mismatch
AE: The type mismatch is
specifically dealing with NAN
... it's in the context of
... you're putting in what could be a float value
... but for the one you posted in that is not supported
ED: For me the changes in either
one of them is very limited
... but I'd prefer if it were similar everywhere
... so do we want to put this text into the spec
<ed_> javascript:alert(document.createElementNS("http://www.w3.org/2000/svg", "svg").setFloatTrait("x",parseFloat("asdasd")))
CM: throwing type miss match
error for set float trait
... and then other for the other cases
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to fix exceptions in the specification for setFloat values [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2082 - Fix exceptions in the specification for setFloat values [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-10].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Doug/None/ Succeeded: s/reprot/report/ Succeeded: s/withing/within/ WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/attribute property and normalisation/attribute/property normalisation/ Found Scribe: anthony Inferring ScribeNick: anthony Default Present: aemmons, heycam, anthony, ed_, shepazu, ChrisL Present: aemmons heycam anthony ed_ shepazu ChrisL Regrets: None Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0168.html Found Date: 03 Jul 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-svg-minutes.html People with action items: cameron emmons erik[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]