See also: IRC log, previous 2008-06-26
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MICHAEL !
:)
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<mhausenblas> ta Manu :)
<mhausenblas> I'd like to shortly talk about the Primer re 'link to full example'
<mhausenblas> Full example from RDFa Primer
<mhausenblas> Ben, just pointed out the Primer full example stuff
<markbirbeck> I've just emailed my apologies. :(
<markbirbeck> Will stay on IRC, though.
<markbirbeck> Happy birthday Michael! :)
<mhausenblas> primer/alice-example.html
ACTION: [DONE] Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
Manu:the wiki doesn't allow you to edit until you verify your email address
ShaneM: That's correct.
ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]
ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]
Ben: You should coordinate with Digg folks to
see if you can come up with a vocab term for community rating.
... if they agree on that, then we can write a cool searchmonkey addition
based on that.
Ben: Either find the right one or pick a new one.
Michael: Yes, one kinda exists... check talis.com page first.
Steven: wanted to talk about vocabularies for a
bit.
... got a comment about vevent blog post I did.
Michael: It was Yves, right?
Steven: yes, my question is I'm assuming that
we want some standard vocabularies.
... Using location for a TV channel?
... So VCARD location for a TV program should be in the LOCATION field?
ShaneM: What's the datatype for location?
Steven: It's string.
ShaneM: If it's a string, do whatever you want, right?
Ralph: don't think that represents the designer's intent
Steven: You don't quite have the right semantics if you go that route.
Manu:one option that has been used is to permit either a string or a typed value
Michael: I know Yves, we could talk with him a bit?
Ben: It would be good to continue discussion
with Yves.
... These discussions tend to be very long, because we're talking about
vocabularies.
Manu:people aren't necessarily going to
understand the nuances of the semantics and will simply put in whatever
strings they feel fit
... requiring specific data types will make the vocabular less accessible
... microformats try to make things easiest to use
... strings have no deeper interpretation; you are permitted to put whatever
you want in a string
Ben: The right approach would be to have experts figure it out.
ShaneM: I disagree a bit - we don't have to figure this stuff out.
<mhausenblas> +1
Ben: People are still going to look to us to
write up vocabularies.
... I agree in principle, but we have to bootstrap this somehow.
<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to discuss vocabulary evolution
ShaneM: how does ontology discovery works?
Ben: Michael is the mechanical turk behind ontology discovery.
Michael: I do agree with Shane, we have to
focus on what we're doing - RDFa, not vocabularies.
... If you have further information, talk to the vocab authors.
... we have to let people understand that there are certain contraints.
<Manu: these questions are general; "what do
we mean by 'location'" is a question that's not specific to just one
vocabulary
... to get specific semantics, give people the option to use multiple
datatypes
... the microformats community has dealt with this mostly by ignoring it
ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [CONTINUES]
<Ralph> [[
<Ralph> Manu: next can think about some javascript tools to generate the markup for some of these
<Ralph> ... would be nice to have a unified architecture to create these wizards
<Ralph> ... is there something already in existence we could use for this?
<Ralph> ]]
<Ralph> -- 2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]
ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [CONTINUES]
ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]
<ShaneM> http://rdfa.info/wiki/Geo-tutorial
<mhausenblas> Michael: deployment is the 'only' important thing, e.g. in geonames.org
<Ralph> Geospatial Vocabulary (W3C Incubator Group Report)
<Ralph> Geospatial Ontologies W3C Incubator Group Report 23 October 2007
ShaneM: The vocab isn't defined very well.
Michael: People will look at the examples not the vocabulary.
ShaneM: That's fine.
... What about URIs that represent the thing and URIs that represent the web
page.
... I don't like this distinction - could Steven/Ralph go into the wiki and
fix it.
Michael: It's perfectly right! It's compliant with the linked data principles.
Ben: We will have to have this discussion at greater length later on.
Michael: There is a page on ESW [RDFa_vs_RDFXML] - if we want to discuss that there, it would be good.
ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [DONE]
ACTION: Steven migrate VEVENT examples to rdfa.info wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]
ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [CONTINUES]
<Steven> CURIEs are going to CR soon too
Ben: CR period ends on July 18th
... At that point we should have an implementation report with a couple of
implementations that are thoroughly documented.
<mhausenblas> RDFa/implementation-report
Michael: We have 3 that are fully compliant.
... err, 2 that are fully compliant.
... Shark is also fully compliant.
Ralph: That's great that they have another implementation that's done in CR.
Michael: It would be good to have a fully compliant PHP implementation.
ACTION: Shane to write home page for SPREAD. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
Ben: How do we integrate Javascript parsers.
... Do the test harnesses need to be official? Or do we just need to report
on them?
Ralph: I'd like to talk about hosting test harness.
Ben: Let's do that right now.
Ralph: I had suggested to move test harness to
W3C.
... Everyone seemed to be in agreement.
... It's not a requirement.
... Since this is Working Group output, we should archive it.
... We didn't get it moved over in time, Manu sent the harness to me, made an
attempt to install it.
... The question was presented to me as to where it should reside and for how
long?
... How long is the test harness useful to the community?
... I said a couple of years...I asked Manu if he has any issues hosting
it.
... The two questions are: Does the group have any strong preference for
where it's hosted?
... Do we think it does need to be hosted for a number of years?
Michael: The online version could run there, and a version to download.
Manu: Yep, no problem hosting.
Manu: we have no problem continuing to host the
harness
... also willing to check it in to the W3C CVS repository
... already available for download
ShaneM: Easier to maintain if it's kept at Digital Bazaar.
Ben: Could we proxy it?
Ralph: We'd rather not proxy to non W3C host.
Ben: Okay, are you willing to keep hosting it, Manu?
Manu: Yes.
Michael: The only thing I need are the EARL reports.
Manu: Elias wanted EARL report generation to be cleaned up.
Ben: About the process - is all we need the implementation report?
Ralph: We have to respond to all comments and
issues.
... The implementation report is the main thing we need.
... It doesn't need to be exhaustive, we just have to show that there are 2
implementations of everything.
Michael: I will be gone at 14th July, back on the 25th.
Ben: I'd like to make sure that we include Javascript parsers in final report.
Ralph: It would be good to document as many as
we can - although, it's not essential.
... if we were to publish PR on Aug 1st, we'd probably need to give them 8
weeks to respond.
... Publishing the PR any time in August would push us back to September.
Ben: Even if we did it on July 21st, it would still push us back that far right?
Michael: Well, if I'm not here, the XSLT is online.
Ben: We don't need to rush you back from
vacation - let's take a look at what we have on July 18th and aim for August
1st for PR request.
... The primer is a note, but people seem to be interested in validation. I
feel like adding tweaks on how to validate to the Primer.
ShaneM: You can do that at any time.
Steven: +1
<mhausenblas> re validation see rdfa.info/wiki/How-to-validate
Ben: What about syntax/editorial issues? Should we make that coincide with end of CR?
Ralph: We need to make editorial corrections at PR
Ben: Then we should modify editors draft.
Ralph: Yes, but make sure any change made is editorial.
Ben: Alans comment is the only non-editorial,
but we will only make editorial changes.
... I think we know what we have to do for CR.
ACTION: Ben to follow up with Elias on JavaScript test harness + EARL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
Ben: I think there are opportunities to help
people make sense of RDFa via little tools.
... What are the big needs that we see as far as tools are concerned.
Manu: working on Fuzzbot for FF2 and FF3
... working on slashdot
... finalizing hAudio
Michael: working on image/flickr stuff, see e.g. CaMiCatzee/wrapper.php?report=http://danbri.org/foaf.rdf
Ben: There's a chance to talk Songbird folks
into using RDFa?
... It would work well with Creative Commons.
... I can talk to Songbird folks - let's coordinate and chat with them.
Manu: That would be great.
Michael: Are you still in contact with Flickr
guys?
... What they have for RDFa is wierd...
Ben: I'm working my way to them... they're a
good candidate for RDFa.
... I'll keep pushing towards them.
Michael: They do really wierd things...
Ben: I know, they're playing around with it now
- need a little guidance... see what I can do.
... One more thing
... A lot of people are wondering what they get now with RDFa.
... Right now, we can start pitching Search Monkey.
... The idea of separation of concern... they could be both the producer and
consumer of site data.
... one person can write up RDFa, the Javascript developers can write stuff
to consume RDFa.
... That approach has been successful with some people.
Steven: that's a good argument, separate meaning from function.
Ben: I'll try to find some time to work on our
stuff internally... to build something with that architecture in mind.
... any other thoughts?
Michael: There is a paper I presented up there
- it's important to have lots of RDFa widgets.
... the stuff in that paper isn't publicly available, but it's up there.
... we should highlight tools - no need to write RDFa at the low level.
Ben: This is great, exactly what I'm getting at.
Micheal: It's functional...
Ben: Anything else?
... Keep this stuff going - more implementations, more tools.
Michael: Comment on this ISWC tutorial page if you can.
Ben: This gives us the opportunity to pitch RDFa to semantic web crowd.
Steven: Don't forget about Raptor.
ShaneM: small group inside Google uses Raptor.
Steven: We need to think about how a page should be treated as RDFa.
Ben: Can we do the 10th?
Steven: yes.
Ralph:regrets for next week
Michael: yes
Manu: yes