IRC log of core on 2008-05-21
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:59:27 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #core
- 13:59:27 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc
- 13:59:56 [Zakim]
- I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has now started
- 14:00:03 [Zakim]
- +Yves_Savourel
- 14:00:10 [r12a]
- zakim, dial richard please
- 14:00:10 [Zakim]
- ok, r12a; the call is being made
- 14:00:11 [Zakim]
- +Richard
- 14:00:25 [DavidClarke]
- DavidClarke has joined #core
- 14:00:40 [r12a]
- zakim, drop richard
- 14:00:40 [Zakim]
- Richard is being disconnected
- 14:00:41 [Zakim]
- -Richard
- 14:00:57 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 14:01:02 [r12a]
- zakim, dial richard please
- 14:01:02 [Zakim]
- ok, r12a; the call is being made
- 14:01:04 [Zakim]
- +Richard
- 14:01:26 [r12a]
- zakim, who's here ?
- 14:01:26 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Richard, ??P5
- 14:01:27 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see DavidClarke, RRSAgent, Zakim, r12a, YvesS, fsasaki
- 14:01:36 [r12a]
- zakim, P5 is Andrew
- 14:01:36 [Zakim]
- sorry, r12a, I do not recognize a party named 'P5'
- 14:01:47 [r12a]
- zakim, ??P5 is Andrew
- 14:01:47 [Zakim]
- +Andrew; got it
- 14:02:07 [Zakim]
- +CarlosI
- 14:02:12 [r12a]
- zakim, dial richard-home
- 14:02:12 [Zakim]
- ok, r12a; the call is being made
- 14:02:13 [Zakim]
- +Richard
- 14:02:46 [r12a]
- zakim, Carlosl is David
- 14:02:46 [Zakim]
- sorry, r12a, I do not recognize a party named 'Carlosl'
- 14:02:55 [r12a]
- zakim, who's here ?
- 14:02:55 [Zakim]
- +Felix
- 14:02:56 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Richard, Andrew, CarlosI, Richard, Felix (muted)
- 14:02:57 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see DavidClarke, RRSAgent, Zakim, r12a, YvesS, fsasaki
- 14:03:12 [r12a]
- zakim, Carlosl is David
- 14:03:12 [Zakim]
- sorry, r12a, I do not recognize a party named 'Carlosl'
- 14:03:22 [r12a]
- zakim, CarlosI is David
- 14:03:22 [Zakim]
- +David; got it
- 14:03:24 [DavidClarke]
- zakim, CarlosI is David
- 14:03:24 [Zakim]
- sorry, DavidClarke, I do not recognize a party named 'CarlosI'
- 14:05:14 [r12a]
- zakim, who's here ?
- 14:05:14 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Richard, Andrew, David, Richard, Felix
- 14:05:16 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see DavidClarke, RRSAgent, Zakim, r12a, YvesS, fsasaki
- 14:06:11 [r12a]
- Meeting: I18n Core telecon
- 14:06:43 [r12a]
- Topic: Actions
- 14:06:46 [r12a]
- http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Homework
- 14:07:31 [r12a]
- ACTION: Addison: write basic outline in wiki for a note on case folding PENDING
- 14:07:46 [r12a]
- ACTION: Andrew: create notes on how to use the wiki template DONE
- 14:08:10 [r12a]
- ACTION: Addison to write an alternative proposal for the para giving an example in SSML 3.2.1 PENDING
- 14:08:26 [r12a]
- Topic: Info Share
- 14:09:59 [r12a]
- RI: Talks in Australia seemed to go well
- 14:11:00 [r12a]
- Topic: IRI/URI Canonicalization does not address IRIs with IDNs
- 14:11:08 [r12a]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008JanMar/0025.html
- 14:13:58 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008AprJun/0024.html
- 14:18:40 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008AprJun/0020.html
- 14:23:47 [r12a]
- ACTION: Felix to report this issue to the IDNA WG at IETF and see if they have any comments
- 14:24:14 [r12a]
- David: even on a simple level round tripping doesn't work because of case reduction
- 14:31:47 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008JanMar/0026.html
- 14:32:13 [fsasaki]
- http://www.w3.org/2007/powder/Group/powder-grouping/20080128.html#canon
- 14:33:07 [andrewc]
- andrewc has joined #core
- 14:36:49 [r12a]
- Topic: HTML 5 and Charmod (input from Andrew)
- 14:36:56 [r12a]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2008Feb/0010.html
- 14:37:49 [r12a]
- ===================
- 14:38:02 [r12a]
- HTML5 and
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- CharMod conformance
- 14:38:02 [r12a]
- The Core I18N working group has concerns
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- over section 8.2.2.2 in HTML5.
- 14:38:02 [r12a]
- We consider the following
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- instruction problematic:
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- "When a user agent would
- 14:38:07 [r12a]
- otherwise use the ISO-8859-1 encoding, it must instead use the
- 14:38:09 [r12a]
- Windows-1252 encoding."
- 14:38:11 [r12a]
- There is a note that "this
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- requirement is a wilful violation of the W3C Character Model
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- specification".
- 14:38:17 [r12a]
- Theoretically we would prefer for all
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- HTML5 documents to adhere to the W3C character model. We also recognise
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- the practicalities for user agents to correct obvious authoring errors.
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- The Core I18N group recommends that
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- 1) Any
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- documentation developed for content authors and authoring agents must
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- conform to the character model, and explicitly indicate the need to
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- correctly and accurately identify the character encoding of a document.
- 14:38:33 [r12a]
- HTML 5 material developed for content authors needs to give
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- clear and direct guidance on the importance and need of correctly and
- 14:38:37 [r12a]
- accurately identifying the character encoding of a document.
- 14:38:39 [r12a]
- 2)
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- Authors and authoring agents sometimes miss-identify encodings. It is
- 14:38:43 [r12a]
- useful to assume that character encodings that are a subset of another
- 14:38:45 [r12a]
- encoding are identified by the browser as using the superset encoding.
- 14:38:47 [r12a]
- If the HTML5 documentation continues to recommend that ISO-8859-1
- 14:38:49 [r12a]
- documents be interpreted as Windows-1252 we would recommend an additional
- 14:38:51 [r12a]
- note indicating that the sole purpose of this need is to compensate for
- 14:38:53 [r12a]
- encoding misidentification introduced by the authors.
- 14:38:55 [r12a]
- We would
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- also recommend that is you follow this path that you do not specifically
- 14:38:59 [r12a]
- privilege the ISO-8859-1 - Windows-1252 encoding pair. Current web
- 14:39:01 [r12a]
- browsers also use other subset - superset encoding pairings, e.g. GB-2312
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- and GBK, etc.
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- All such encoding pairs supported by current web
- 14:39:07 [r12a]
- browsers should be identified in the HTML5 documentation.
- 14:39:09 [r12a]
- We
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- assume the need for this guidance is based on the amount of material on
- 14:39:13 [r12a]
- the web that is currently self-identified as ISO-8859-1 but is actually
- 14:39:15 [r12a]
- Windows-1252.
- 14:39:17 [r12a]
- One concern with this assumption is that such
- 14:39:19 [r12a]
- behaviour is specifically dealing with HTML 4 and XHTML 1.0/1.1 documents
- 14:39:21 [r12a]
- rather than the needs of HTML 5 documents. There seems to be an implicit
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- assumption that currently authors get it wrong and when HTML 5 documents
- 14:39:25 [r12a]
- are generated in the future content authors will continue to get it
- 14:39:27 [r12a]
- wrong.
- 14:39:29 [r12a]
- This may be a valid assumption, but HTML 5 documentation
- 14:39:31 [r12a]
- for content authors will play a important role in wether this assumption
- 14:39:33 [r12a]
- is correct or not.
- 14:39:35 [r12a]
- One final concern with this instruction is
- 14:39:37 [r12a]
- that it ignores the common practice of deliberately mislabelling legacy
- 14:39:39 [r12a]
- encodings as iSO-8859-1 when the legacy encoding for encodings not
- 14:39:41 [r12a]
- explicitly supported by authoring agents and web browsers.
- 14:39:43 [r12a]
- This
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- content, although self-identified as ISO-88859-1, should not be
- 14:39:47 [r12a]
- interpreted as Windows-1252.
- 14:39:49 [r12a]
- =====================
- 14:39:51 [r12a]
- Put on agenda for next week
- 14:40:29 [r12a]
- Topic: Info Share (2)
- 14:41:20 [r12a]
- Felix: There was heated discussinoin the the LTRU group about how to represent chinese languages and the chairs asked for people to read the proposals and decide at the beginning of next week via a vote which way to go forward
- 14:41:38 [r12a]
- ... if you are interested in giving your opinion, please look at the thread
- 14:42:06 [r12a]
- Topic: Pipeline review
- 14:42:06 [fsasaki]
- "a consensus call on the "extlang or not extlang" question to end Saturday, May 24."
- 14:42:17 [r12a]
- http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Pipeline
- 14:42:40 [fsasaki]
- s/at the beginning of next week/"a consensus call on the "extlang or not extlang" question to end Saturday, May 24."/
- 14:44:38 [r12a]
- ACTION: Andrew to continue work on What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8? (http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-upgrade.html) and report progress
- 14:48:11 [r12a]
- ACTION: Addison to guide decision next week (28th May) on which document(s) to tackle next from Charmod, etc list, and choose editor(s) to get work started
- 14:49:14 [fsasaki]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/#last-call
- 14:52:05 [r12a]
- Topic: Spec reviews
- 14:52:53 [r12a]
- ACTION: Addison to check latest XMLHTTPRequest LC draft against previous comments made when we reviewed the document
- 14:54:46 [r12a]
- ACTION: Felix to check whether there are any issues in CURIE Syntax spec http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-curie-20080506/
- 14:56:12 [Zakim]
- -Felix
- 14:56:15 [Zakim]
- -David
- 14:56:17 [Zakim]
- -Yves_Savourel
- 14:56:18 [Zakim]
- -Andrew
- 14:56:27 [r12a]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:56:27 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-minutes.html r12a
- 14:57:56 [Zakim]
- -Richard
- 14:58:24 [andrewc_]
- andrewc_ has joined #core
- 15:05:01 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, Richard, in I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM
- 15:05:04 [Zakim]
- I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has ended
- 15:05:05 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Richard, Andrew, Felix, David
- 15:12:39 [r12a]
- zakim, bye
- 15:12:39 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #core
- 15:12:43 [r12a]
- rrsagent, bye
- 15:12:54 [r12a]
- rrsagent, set log to public
- 15:12:54 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'set log to public', r12a. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 15:13:04 [r12a]
- grr
- 15:13:27 [andrewc_]
- andrewc_ has joined #core
- 15:13:28 [r12a]
- rrsagent, help
- 15:14:23 [r12a]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 15:14:30 [r12a]
- rrsagent, bye
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-actions.rdf :
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Addison: write basic outline in wiki for a note on case folding PENDING [1]
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-07-31
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Andrew: create notes on how to use the wiki template DONE [2]
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-07-46
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Addison to write an alternative proposal for the para giving an example in SSML 3.2.1 PENDING [3]
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-08-10
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Felix to report this issue to the IDNA WG at IETF and see if they have any comments [4]
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-23-47
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Andrew to continue work on What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8? (http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-upgrade.html) and report progress [5]
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-44-38
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Addison to guide decision next week (28th May) on which document(s) to tackle next from Charmod, etc list, and choose editor(s) to get work started [6]
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-48-11
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Addison to check latest XMLHTTPRequest LC draft against previous comments made when we reviewed the document [7]
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-52-53
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Felix to check whether there are any issues in CURIE Syntax spec http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-curie-20080506/ [8]
- 15:14:30 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-54-46