13:59:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #core
13:59:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc
13:59:56 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has now started
14:00:03 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
14:00:10 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
14:00:10 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:00:11 <Zakim> +Richard
14:00:25 <DavidClarke> DavidClarke has joined #core
14:00:40 <r12a> zakim, drop richard
14:00:40 <Zakim> Richard is being disconnected
14:00:41 <Zakim> -Richard
14:00:57 <Zakim> +??P5
14:01:02 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
14:01:02 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:01:04 <Zakim> +Richard
14:01:26 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
14:01:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Richard, ??P5
14:01:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see DavidClarke, RRSAgent, Zakim, r12a, YvesS, fsasaki
14:01:36 <r12a> zakim, P5 is Andrew
14:01:36 <Zakim> sorry, r12a, I do not recognize a party named 'P5'
14:01:47 <r12a> zakim, ??P5 is Andrew
14:01:47 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
14:02:07 <Zakim> +CarlosI
14:02:12 <r12a> zakim, dial richard-home
14:02:12 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:02:13 <Zakim> +Richard
14:02:46 <r12a> zakim, Carlosl is David
14:02:46 <Zakim> sorry, r12a, I do not recognize a party named 'Carlosl'
14:02:55 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
14:02:55 <Zakim> +Felix
14:02:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Richard, Andrew, CarlosI, Richard, Felix (muted)
14:02:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see DavidClarke, RRSAgent, Zakim, r12a, YvesS, fsasaki
14:03:12 <r12a> zakim, Carlosl is David
14:03:12 <Zakim> sorry, r12a, I do not recognize a party named 'Carlosl'
14:03:22 <r12a> zakim, CarlosI is David
14:03:22 <Zakim> +David; got it
14:03:24 <DavidClarke> zakim, CarlosI is David
14:03:24 <Zakim> sorry, DavidClarke, I do not recognize a party named 'CarlosI'
14:05:14 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
14:05:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Richard, Andrew, David, Richard, Felix
14:05:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see DavidClarke, RRSAgent, Zakim, r12a, YvesS, fsasaki
14:06:11 <r12a> Meeting: I18n Core telecon
14:06:43 <r12a> Topic: Actions
14:06:46 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Homework
14:07:31 <r12a> ACTION: Addison: write basic outline in wiki for a note on case folding PENDING
14:07:46 <r12a> ACTION: Andrew: create notes on how to use the wiki template DONE
14:08:10 <r12a> ACTION: Addison to write an alternative proposal for the para giving an example in SSML 3.2.1 PENDING
14:08:26 <r12a> Topic: Info Share
14:09:59 <r12a> RI: Talks in Australia seemed to go well
14:11:00 <r12a> Topic: IRI/URI Canonicalization does not address IRIs with IDNs
14:11:08 <r12a> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008JanMar/0025.html
14:13:58 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008AprJun/0024.html
14:18:40 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008AprJun/0020.html
14:23:47 <r12a> ACTION: Felix to report this issue to the IDNA WG at IETF and see if they have any comments
14:24:14 <r12a> David: even on a simple level round tripping doesn't work because of case reduction
14:31:47 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008JanMar/0026.html
14:32:13 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2007/powder/Group/powder-grouping/20080128.html#canon
14:33:07 <andrewc> andrewc has joined #core
14:36:49 <r12a> Topic: HTML 5 and Charmod (input from Andrew)
14:36:56 <r12a> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2008Feb/0010.html
14:37:49 <r12a> ===================
14:38:02 <r12a> HTML5 and
14:38:02 <r12a> CharMod conformance
14:38:02 <r12a> The Core I18N working group has concerns
14:38:02 <r12a> over section 8.2.2.2 in HTML5.
14:38:02 <r12a> We consider the following
14:38:03 <r12a> instruction problematic:
14:38:05 <r12a> "When a user agent would
14:38:07 <r12a> otherwise use the ISO-8859-1 encoding, it must instead use the
14:38:09 <r12a> Windows-1252 encoding."
14:38:11 <r12a> There is a note that "this
14:38:13 <r12a> requirement is a wilful violation of the W3C Character Model
14:38:15 <r12a> specification".
14:38:17 <r12a> Theoretically we would prefer for all
14:38:19 <r12a> HTML5 documents to adhere to the W3C character model. We also recognise
14:38:21 <r12a> the practicalities for user agents to correct obvious authoring errors.
14:38:23 <r12a> The Core I18N group recommends that 
14:38:25 <r12a> 1) Any
14:38:27 <r12a> documentation developed for content authors and authoring agents must
14:38:29 <r12a> conform to the character model, and explicitly indicate the need to
14:38:31 <r12a> correctly and accurately identify the character encoding of a document.
14:38:33 <r12a> HTML 5 material developed for content authors needs to give
14:38:35 <r12a> clear and direct guidance on the importance and need of correctly and
14:38:37 <r12a> accurately identifying the character encoding of a document.
14:38:39 <r12a> 2)
14:38:41 <r12a> Authors and authoring agents sometimes miss-identify encodings. It is
14:38:43 <r12a> useful to assume that character encodings that are a subset of another
14:38:45 <r12a> encoding are identified by the browser as using the superset encoding.
14:38:47 <r12a> If the HTML5 documentation continues to recommend that ISO-8859-1
14:38:49 <r12a> documents be interpreted as Windows-1252 we would recommend an additional
14:38:51 <r12a> note indicating that the sole purpose of this need is to compensate for
14:38:53 <r12a> encoding misidentification introduced by the authors.
14:38:55 <r12a> We would
14:38:57 <r12a> also recommend that is you follow this path that you do not specifically
14:38:59 <r12a> privilege the ISO-8859-1 - Windows-1252 encoding pair. Current web
14:39:01 <r12a> browsers also use other subset - superset encoding pairings, e.g. GB-2312
14:39:03 <r12a> and GBK, etc.
14:39:05 <r12a> All such encoding pairs supported by current web
14:39:07 <r12a> browsers should be identified in the HTML5 documentation.
14:39:09 <r12a> We
14:39:11 <r12a> assume the need for this guidance is based on the amount of material on
14:39:13 <r12a> the web that is currently self-identified as ISO-8859-1 but is actually
14:39:15 <r12a> Windows-1252. 
14:39:17 <r12a> One concern with this assumption is that such
14:39:19 <r12a> behaviour is specifically dealing with HTML 4 and XHTML 1.0/1.1 documents
14:39:21 <r12a> rather than the needs of HTML 5 documents. There seems to be an implicit
14:39:23 <r12a> assumption that currently authors get it wrong and when HTML 5 documents
14:39:25 <r12a> are generated in the future content authors will continue to get it
14:39:27 <r12a> wrong.
14:39:29 <r12a> This may be a valid assumption, but HTML 5 documentation
14:39:31 <r12a> for content authors will play a important role in wether this assumption
14:39:33 <r12a> is correct or not.
14:39:35 <r12a> One final concern with this instruction is
14:39:37 <r12a> that it ignores the common practice of deliberately mislabelling legacy
14:39:39 <r12a> encodings as iSO-8859-1 when the legacy encoding for encodings not
14:39:41 <r12a> explicitly supported by authoring agents and web browsers.
14:39:43 <r12a> This
14:39:45 <r12a> content, although self-identified as ISO-88859-1, should not be
14:39:47 <r12a> interpreted as Windows-1252.
14:39:49 <r12a> =====================
14:39:51 <r12a> Put on agenda for next week 
14:40:29 <r12a> Topic: Info Share (2)
14:41:20 <r12a> Felix: There was heated discussinoin the the LTRU group about how to represent chinese languages and the chairs asked for people to read the proposals and decide at the beginning of next week via a vote which way to go forward
14:41:38 <r12a> ... if you are interested in giving your opinion, please look at the thread
14:42:06 <r12a> Topic: Pipeline review
14:42:06 <fsasaki> "a consensus call on the "extlang or not extlang" question to end Saturday, May 24."
14:42:17 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Pipeline
14:42:40 <fsasaki> s/at the beginning of next week/"a consensus call on the "extlang or not extlang" question to end Saturday, May 24."/
14:44:38 <r12a> ACTION: Andrew to continue work on What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8? (http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-upgrade.html) and report progress
14:48:11 <r12a> ACTION: Addison to guide decision next week (28th May) on which document(s) to tackle next from Charmod, etc list, and choose editor(s) to get work started
14:49:14 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/#last-call
14:52:05 <r12a> Topic: Spec reviews
14:52:53 <r12a> ACTION: Addison to check latest XMLHTTPRequest LC draft against previous comments made when we reviewed the document
14:54:46 <r12a> ACTION: Felix to check whether there are any issues in CURIE Syntax spec http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-curie-20080506/
14:56:12 <Zakim> -Felix
14:56:15 <Zakim> -David
14:56:17 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
14:56:18 <Zakim> -Andrew
14:56:27 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-minutes.html r12a
14:57:56 <Zakim> -Richard
14:58:24 <andrewc_> andrewc_ has joined #core
15:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Richard, in I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM
15:05:04 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has ended
15:05:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Richard, Andrew, Felix, David
15:12:39 <r12a> zakim, bye
15:12:39 <Zakim> Zakim has left #core
15:12:43 <r12a> rrsagent, bye
15:12:54 <r12a> rrsagent, set log to public
15:12:54 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'set log to public', r12a.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:13:04 <r12a> grr
15:13:27 <andrewc_> andrewc_ has joined #core
15:13:28 <r12a> rrsagent, help
15:14:23 <r12a> rrsagent, make log public
15:14:30 <r12a> rrsagent, bye
15:14:30 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-actions.rdf :
15:14:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Addison: write basic outline in wiki for a note on case folding PENDING [1]
15:14:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-07-31
15:14:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Andrew: create notes on how to use the wiki template DONE [2]
15:14:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-07-46
15:14:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Addison to write an alternative proposal for the para giving an example in SSML 3.2.1 PENDING [3]
15:14:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-08-10
15:14:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to report this issue to the IDNA WG at IETF and see if they have any comments [4]
15:14:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-23-47
15:14:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Andrew to continue work on What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8? (http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-upgrade.html) and report progress [5]
15:14:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-44-38
15:14:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Addison to guide decision next week (28th May) on which document(s) to tackle next from Charmod, etc list, and choose editor(s) to get work started [6]
15:14:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-48-11
15:14:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Addison to check latest XMLHTTPRequest LC draft against previous comments made when we reviewed the document [7]
15:14:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-52-53
15:14:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to check whether there are any issues in CURIE Syntax spec http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-curie-20080506/ [8]
15:14:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-core-irc#T14-54-46