14:01:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
14:01:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-irc
14:01:22 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:01:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
14:01:24 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be BPWG
14:01:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng, I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM already started
14:01:25 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:01:26 <trackbot-ng> Date: 08 May 2008
14:01:38 <jeffs> jeffs has joined #bpwg
14:01:42 <hgerlach> hgerlach has joined #bpwg
14:01:53 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:01:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, +0774762aaaa
14:01:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see hgerlach, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, Scott, DKA, trackbot-ng, dom
14:02:06 <DKA> zakim, +0774762aaaa is Scott
14:02:08 <Zakim> +Scott; got it
14:02:12 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:02:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, Scott
14:02:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see hgerlach, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, Scott, DKA, trackbot-ng, dom
14:02:26 <Zakim> +hgerlach
14:02:26 <hgerlach> hi
14:02:56 <Zakim> +jeffs
14:03:09 <DKA> Regrets: +Bryan
14:03:44 <achuter> achuter has joined #bpwg
14:04:01 <manrique> manrique has joined #bpwg
14:04:16 <Zakim> +adam
14:04:17 <DKA> Regrets: +robert, +martin, +sean, +magnus, +andrew
14:04:25 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:04:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, Scott, hgerlach, jeffs, adam
14:04:26 <adam> adam has joined #bpwg
14:04:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see manrique, achuter, hgerlach, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, Scott, DKA, trackbot-ng, dom
14:05:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:05:14 <Zakim> +berrueta
14:05:23 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:05:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, Scott, hgerlach, jeffs, adam, [IPcaller], berrueta
14:05:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see adam, manrique, achuter, hgerlach, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, Scott, DKA, trackbot-ng, dom
14:05:35 <DKA> zakim, [ipcaller] is Alan
14:05:35 <Zakim> +Alan; got it
14:05:37 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:05:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, Scott, hgerlach, jeffs, adam, Alan, berrueta
14:05:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see adam, manrique, achuter, hgerlach, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, Scott, DKA, trackbot-ng, dom
14:05:42 <achuter> achuter has joined #bpwg
14:06:19 <jo> jo has joined #bpwg
14:06:21 <DKA> Scribe: Alan
14:06:25 <DKA> ScribeNick: Achuter
14:06:37 <manrique> zakim berrueta is me
14:06:43 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:06:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, Scott, hgerlach, jeffs, adam, Alan, berrueta
14:06:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see jo, achuter, adam, manrique, hgerlach, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, Scott, DKA, trackbot-ng, dom
14:06:54 <manrique> zakim, berrueta is me
14:06:54 <Zakim> +manrique; got it
14:06:54 <jo> zakim, code?
14:06:55 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
14:07:08 <nacho> nacho has joined #bpwg
14:07:22 <achuter> zakim, Alan is me
14:07:22 <Zakim> +achuter; got it
14:07:23 <Zakim> +jo
14:07:25 <manrique> zakim, miguel is with me
14:07:25 <Zakim> +miguel; got it
14:07:29 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
14:07:34 <manrique> zakim, nacho is with me
14:07:34 <Zakim> +nacho; got it
14:07:40 <manrique> zakim, abel is with me
14:07:40 <Zakim> +abel; got it
14:07:42 <jo> rrsagent, pointer
14:07:42 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-irc#T14-07-42
14:08:18 <achuter> topic Mobile OK Pro
14:08:45 <jo> s/topic Mobile OK Pro/Topic: Mobile OK Pro
14:09:04 <achuter> achuter has joined #bpwg
14:09:13 <achuter> zakim, mute me
14:09:13 <Zakim> achuter was already muted, achuter
14:09:32 <achuter> topic MobileOK Pro
14:09:38 <Seungyun> Seungyun has joined #bpwg
14:09:41 <achuter> No report, as Kai not present
14:10:01 <Seungyun> This is Seungyun, sorry late join 
14:10:03 <jo> s/topic MobileOK Pro//
14:10:30 <achuter> zakim, unmute me
14:10:30 <Zakim> achuter should no longer be muted
14:10:48 <abel_> abel_ has joined #bpwg
14:10:54 <jo> scribe: jo
14:11:01 <jo> topic: Introductions
14:11:04 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:11:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, Scott, hgerlach, jeffs (muted), adam, achuter, manrique, jo
14:11:06 <Zakim> manrique has manrique, miguel, nacho, abel
14:11:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see abel_, Seungyun, achuter, abel, nacho, jo, adam, manrique, hgerlach, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, Scott, DKA, trackbot-ng, dom
14:11:08 <edm> edm has joined #bpwg
14:11:13 <Zakim> +Ed_Mitukiewicz
14:11:28 <jo> dka: Scott Hughes has joined from Vodafone
14:11:43 <jo> scott: Interested in Ajax etc ...
14:11:44 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
14:12:04 <jo> topic: BP 2.0
14:12:30 <jo> dka: Adam has volunteered to join Bryan as editor and we are very grateful
14:12:47 <jo> adam: Have similar interests to Scott ...
14:13:03 <Kai> Kai has joined #bpwg
14:13:21 <jo> Topic: Accessibility doc
14:13:30 <Kai> zakim, code?
14:13:30 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Kai
14:13:44 <achuter> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080506/mwbp-wcag20.html
14:13:52 <jo> achuter: we got in a bit of a muddle during the restructuring, but now I have got round to doing the restructure
14:14:00 <Zakim> +Kai_Dietrich
14:14:14 <jo> ... how Mobile Best Practices help Accessibility
14:14:36 <jo> ... should be much easier to understand, this is half of the original doc the other half is:
14:14:45 <jo> ... in another doc
14:15:02 <jo> ... [alan discusses structure of the document]
14:15:08 <achuter> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080506/mwbp-wcag20_helps.html
14:15:34 <jo> ... and the other half is arranged under the best practices and how they help users with disabilities
14:16:12 <jo> ... we still have WCAG1 -> Mobile to work trhough and also the WCAG2 -Yeliz is doing that
14:16:26 <jo> ... not ready for group review yet
14:16:37 <jo> dka: do we need 2 docs for this?
14:16:47 <jo> achuter: yes, they are differently structured
14:17:16 <jo> ... complexity should not be a problem though their are more pages
14:17:39 <jo> dka: as a developer, is this difficult to use?
14:17:59 <jo> achuter: there is an overview which will explain which one you should use
14:18:16 <jo> dka: is this in line with EOWG wants to do it?
14:18:20 <jo> achuter: yes
14:18:33 <jo> dka: what should we target for the F2F on this doc
14:19:07 <jo> ... should we put on the agenda ... 6 weeks till F2F ... when should we target PWD?
14:19:22 <jo> achuter: Shaun drew up a timetable which I can't find ...
14:19:32 <jo> ... [scrabble scrabble]
14:19:52 <abel_> abel_ has joined #bpwg
14:20:00 <achuter> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-mwbp-wcag#publication
14:20:05 <jo> ... [scrabbling stops]
14:20:22 <jo> ... that link takes you to the schedule
14:20:51 <jo> ... restreucturing should have been done by 30th Apr is running 2 weeks behind
14:21:06 <jo> s/restreucturing/restructuring
14:21:21 <Kai> abel_WsP&)l   WsP&)l
14:22:09 <jo> dka: like to review this for the F2F
14:22:10 <Zakim> -Scott
14:22:34 <jo> achuter: should be ready at the beginning of the week after next
14:22:51 <Zakim> +Scott
14:23:20 <jo> dka: sounds like a good plan, you won't be on call next week, if you can email before the next call after that then that would be goodf
14:23:27 <jo> s/goodf/good/
14:23:29 <achuter> zakim, mute
14:23:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mute', achuter
14:23:32 <achuter> zakim, mute me
14:23:32 <Zakim> achuter should now be muted
14:23:41 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
14:23:41 <achuter> zakim, mute me
14:23:41 <Zakim> achuter was already muted, achuter
14:23:57 <jo> Topic: MobileOK Pro (bis)
14:24:21 <jo> Kai: we didn't get it all done ...
14:24:25 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:24:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, hgerlach, jeffs (muted), adam, achuter (muted), manrique, jo, Ed_Mitukiewicz, Kai_Dietrich, Scott
14:24:27 <Zakim> manrique has manrique, miguel, nacho, abel
14:24:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see abel, abel_, Kai, edm, Seungyun, achuter, nacho, jo, adam, manrique, hgerlach, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, Scott, DKA, trackbot-ng, dom
14:24:49 <jo> manrique: working on the tests today so should be ready soon
14:25:00 <jo> dka: let's put time on next week's agenda then
14:25:14 <jo> ... can you publish a couple of days in advance of the call
14:25:16 <abel_> abel_ has joined #bpwg
14:25:24 <jo> kai: I won't be able to work on this stuff
14:25:30 <jo> ... next week may not happen
14:26:03 <jo> dka: let's see what happens ... and we'll ... see if the doc is in a shape to review on Thursday and if not then we'll discuss the following week
14:26:29 <jo> kai: I have to wait on Manrique and then everyone waits on me
14:26:39 <jo> ... looking for any guidance from anyone on this
14:27:04 <jo> Topic: CT Task Force Report
14:27:18 <achuter> zakim, unmute me
14:27:18 <Zakim> achuter should no longer be muted
14:27:23 <jo> scribe: achuter
14:27:28 <achuter> scribe: Alan
14:27:37 <jo> scribenick: achuter
14:28:08 <achuter> Jo: Progress is slow
14:28:38 <achuter> Jo: working toward new draft. Should be ready by next week. Last call WD in time for F2F.
14:29:20 <achuter> Jo: Hope to be redy for approval of LCWD at F2F.
14:29:33 <achuter> Jo: No further news about it today.
14:29:50 <achuter> topic: BP2 document
14:29:54 <hgerlach> sorry, have to leave for the next meeting, bye
14:29:57 <hgerlach> hgerlach has left #bpwg
14:30:01 <Zakim> -hgerlach
14:30:35 <jo> issue-245?
14:30:35 <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-245 -- ADC, A Wooden Stake and Some Garlic Needed -- OPEN
14:30:35 <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/245
14:31:50 <achuter> Long ago we decided not to define an advanced delivery context
14:32:20 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
14:32:21 <achuter> Dan: The idea is that if a more advanced device is detected, then exploit its capabilities
14:32:40 <jeffs> real-world ADC in common practice will slide naturally over time, and document should reflect that reality
14:32:53 <jo> q+
14:32:58 <DKA> ack jo
14:32:59 <achuter> Dan: We made that decision, but for some reason the debate has been resurrected again
14:33:20 <achuter> Dan: We made that decision, but for some reason the debate has been resurrected again
14:33:25 <jo> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Apr/0090.html
14:33:38 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: ISSUE-245 ADC goes back in coffin and   close ISSUE-245
14:33:58 <achuter> Dan: Last time, in April, we didn't take a resolution because (Kai?) was not present.
14:34:30 <achuter> s/Dan: Last/Jo: Last
14:35:00 <jeffs> IMHO we are saying "find out at runtime what the client can do"
14:35:07 <achuter> Jo: Think that an ADC definition would be out of date before the ink dry.
14:35:40 <achuter> Jo: Better to think in terms of low-tier, medium and high-tier devices
14:36:21 <achuter> Jo: Idea of ADC is counter-productive to the idea of taking advantage of all capabilities a device has to offer.
14:36:29 <Kai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Apr/0061.html
14:36:33 <jo> [low tier mid tier and high tier being determined by the needs of the application]
14:36:58 <achuter> Kai: Not wedded to the ADC concept, but think it is a mistake to kill it. So I will drop the idea now.
14:37:09 <jo> [not by some arbitrary categorization that makes no reference to particular application needs]
14:38:07 <jo> close ISSUE-245
14:38:43 <jo> scribe: jo
14:38:50 <achuter> zakim, unmute me
14:38:50 <Zakim> achuter should no longer be muted
14:38:53 <jo> RESOLUTION: ISSUE-245 ADC goes back in coffin and  close ISSUE-245
14:39:03 <jo> scribe: achuter
14:39:35 <achuter> issue-235?
14:39:35 <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-235 -- Co Editor for Mobile Web Applications Best Practices (i.e. BP2) -- OPEN
14:39:35 <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/235
14:40:34 <achuter> close ISSUE-235
14:41:01 <achuter> issue-246?
14:41:01 <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-246 -- Name of BP2 / Relationship to BP1 -- OPEN
14:41:01 <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/246
14:41:29 <achuter> Jo: Has been discussed on list
14:41:53 <achuter> Jo: Agreed that it would be "BP for mobile applications"
14:42:43 <jeffs> +1
14:42:59 <jeffs> "Mobile Web Applications"
14:43:01 <achuter> s/mobile applications/mobile Web applications
14:43:50 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Name of BP2 remains formally speaking Best Practices for Mobile Web Applications and not BP2 because the latter would give the wrong impression about relationship with BP1 - but we will carry on calling it BP2 anyway
14:44:32 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Name of BP2 remains formally speaking Best Practices for Mobile Web Applications and not BP2 because the latter would give the wrong impression about relationship with BP1 - but we will carry on calling it BP2 anyway - and close ISSUE-246
14:45:47 <jo> scribe: jo
14:45:54 <jo> RESOLUTION: Name of BP2 remains formally speaking Best Practices for Mobile Web Applications and not BP2 because the latter would give the wrong impression about relationship with BP1 - but we will carry on calling it BP2 anyway - and close ISSUE-246
14:45:59 <jo> scribe: achuter
14:46:17 <jo> issue-247?
14:46:17 <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-247 -- Proposed Topics for BP2 -- OPEN
14:46:17 <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/247
14:47:56 <jo> q+
14:48:06 <DKA> ack jo
14:48:08 <jeffs> I think we are talking about "location" and "identities" here
14:49:07 <edm> I wonder if we would mention (and elaborate) on potential uses of DCCI to deal with dynamic properties/context...
14:50:40 <achuter> ACTION: Jo to contact Tom Hume of Future Platforms about use of microformats
14:50:40 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-753 - Contact Tom Hume of Future Platforms about use of microformats [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-05-15].
14:50:41 <abel_> abel_ has joined #bpwg
14:51:34 <nacho> zakim, who is noisy?
14:51:45 <Zakim> nacho, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (52%), adam (24%), jo (23%)
14:52:00 <adam> zakim, mute me
14:52:00 <Zakim> adam should now be muted
14:52:01 <achuter> zakim, mute me
14:52:02 <Zakim> achuter should now be muted
14:52:45 <adam> It's on the HTML5 roadmap I think.
14:52:50 <adam> zakim, unmute me
14:52:50 <Zakim> adam should no longer be muted
14:54:04 <achuter> zakim, unmute me
14:54:04 <Zakim> achuter should no longer be muted
14:54:05 <jeffs> given this doc is in the mobile context, it seems important that we address location issues
14:54:24 <achuter> scribe: achuter
14:55:19 <achuter> Adam: Google Gears API HTML 5
14:56:00 <achuter> Dan: Upcoming versions of browsers should have it as they are geared up for HTML 5
14:56:12 <achuter> [about location]
14:56:30 <achuter> ACTION: Adam to get back to teh group with text about location
14:56:30 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-754 - Get back to teh group with text about location [on Adam Connors - due 2008-05-15].
14:56:38 <DKA> q?
14:56:51 <adam> zakim, mute me
14:56:51 <Zakim> adam should now be muted
14:56:56 <jeffs> agree identity sep
14:57:22 <DKA> zakim, unmute jeffs
14:57:23 <Zakim> jeffs was not muted, DKA
14:58:04 <achuter> Jeffs: Need to address identity and location in this document
14:58:31 <nacho_> nacho_ has joined #bpwg
14:59:34 <achuter> Dan: concerened about the scope of the document, as these are such complex issues
14:59:45 <jeffs> issue would be my suggestion
15:00:04 <achuter> s/concerened/concerned
15:00:12 <jo> Regrets: Rob, Martin, SeanP
15:00:37 <achuter> Ed: Suggest dynamic properties. Supported in common browser.
15:00:42 <jo> q+ to ask whether this is current good practice?
15:01:20 <achuter> Jo: If there are no other implementations can not be best practice.
15:01:27 <achuter> Ed: There is another
15:01:41 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
15:03:19 <Kai> Are we loosening the meaning of "best practice"?
15:03:50 <DKA> q?
15:03:56 <DKA> ack jo
15:03:57 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to ask whether this is current good practice?
15:04:06 <adam> zakim, unmute me
15:04:06 <Zakim> adam should no longer be muted
15:04:10 <adam> q+
15:04:15 <DKA> ack adam
15:06:53 <abel> abel has left #bpwg
15:07:08 <adam> zakim, unmute me
15:07:09 <Zakim> adam was not muted, adam
15:07:35 <achuter> Dan: would like to wait until Bryan is here
15:07:59 <jo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html jo
15:08:17 <achuter> Adam: Persistent storage. What happens when installing.
15:08:43 <achuter> Adam: Cases where content is HTML+CSS but still has install step.
15:09:02 <achuter> Adam: Looks like Bryan has removed section on declaring install size.
15:09:28 <jeffs> given widgets are based on the same techs (html/css/javascript-based) as browser-based thingies and operate in same context (mobile), seems to me they fit here
15:10:24 <achuter> Dan: While we discussed widgets in Seoul, but decided there were too many platforms to be able to write BPs
15:10:38 <achuter> Dan: But can cover use of individual technologies.
15:11:03 <achuter> Dan: Can talk about it when Bryan is back, maybe next week.
15:11:16 <jo> chair: DKA
15:11:22 <edm> logistics for next f2f?
15:11:50 <jo> Topic: Logisitics for F2F
15:12:13 <Zakim> -jeffs
15:12:45 <Kai> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Meetings/Sophia/logistics.html
15:13:52 <achuter> Dan: Logisitcs for next F2F
15:14:16 <achuter> Dan: François is putting together an email with logistics
15:15:19 <achuter> Dan: Two and half days or three?
15:16:16 <Zakim> -DKA
15:16:18 <Zakim> -Kai_Dietrich
15:16:18 <Zakim> -adam
15:16:22 <Zakim> -jo
15:16:23 <Zakim> -Scott
15:16:23 <Zakim> -Ed_Mitukiewicz
15:16:27 <Zakim> -manrique
15:16:28 <Zakim> -achuter
15:16:29 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
15:16:29 <DKA> trackbot-ng, make log minutes something whatever
15:16:30 <Zakim> Attendees were DKA, Scott, hgerlach, jeffs, adam, manrique, achuter, jo, miguel, nacho, abel, Ed_Mitukiewicz, Kai_Dietrich
15:16:33 <Scott> bye
15:16:40 <nacho_> bye everyone
15:16:46 <jo> rrsagent, make logs public
15:16:53 <Scott> Scott has left #bpwg
15:16:53 <jo> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:16:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html jo
15:19:06 <nacho_> nacho_ has left #bpwg
17:18:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #bpwg