W3C

- DRAFT -

Weekly Forms WG Teleconference

02 Apr 2008

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Charlie, John_Boyer, Susan_Borgrink, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, +1.919.254.aaaa, unl, wellsk, Leigh_Klotz, [IPcaller], ebruchez, Steven, Rafael, +0208761aabb, markbirbeck
Regrets
Kenneth, Joern
Chair
John
Scribe
Leigh

Contents


 

 

<John_Boyer> Scribe: Leigh

<John_Boyer> scribenick: klotz

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0002.html

<markbirbeck> I have just sent apologies for this telecon, to the list. Sorry about that. (Apologising about sending apologies...)

<John_Boyer> Action 2008-01-16.1

<John_Boyer> Behavior of replace=text for submissions that retrieve non-text

<scribe> ACTION: jboyer to write up spec-ready text proposal for 1.2 for Behavior of replace=text for submissions that retrieve non-text as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0079.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

<trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0001.html

<unl> in the java world there are many databinding tools. they are often used in web services stacks like axis

<unl> the schema is used to generate a class tree implementing structure and validation rules prescribed by a schema

<unl> furthermore there are marshallers/unmarshallers to translate between xml documents and object graphs

<nick> I noticed that they completely rewritten '3.1 URI Reference Encoding and Escaping'

calling back

<John_Boyer> we've gone quiet till your return

Forms Task Force

<nick> John: We are getting closure to the simplified synstax

back

were there actions items for xml:base?

<scribe> ACTION: Steven Pemberton to review XML Base PER June 30 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0087.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-455 - Pemberton to review XML Base PER June 30 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0087.html [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-04-09].

<John_Boyer> If you could say so on the IRC, that would suffice

<unl> yes, we did

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html

<markbirbeck> Hi everyone. Sorry I can't make the call. John has mentioned in a separate window that you might be close to a resolution on the simplified syntax discussion, and I'd like to add my vote if that's the case. My position is still that I favour @name mapping to a 'flat' model.

<markbirbeck> I feel this 'flat model' is best achieved by mapping to <bind> statements, and further that a convenient way to refer to those binds is via the dollar syntax.

<markbirbeck> But note that I am not therefore saying we MUST use the dollar syntax to address the binds, or that binds must represent variables.

<nick> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0006.html

<markbirbeck> It just seems to me that the whole package of "@name -> <bind> -> named variable -> reference via $x" is pretty coherent, consistent and ultimately very useful in many different ways, not just in the simplified syntax.

<nick> ack, me

why now <xf:variable name="foo"><xf:bind ... />

or <xf:variable name="foo" bind="xyz" /> <xf:bind id="xyz" ....

<nick> it becomes hard to identify what path-steps needs to be rewritten

<nick> sum(LineTotal)*AnotherContrl

<nick> if you evaluate this expression the LineTotal path expression needs to evaluated against all row elements

<nick> the AnotherContrl path needs to be evaluated to another context

<nick> or an attribute on bind variable="true"

This is a secondary point, but what's the difference between <xf:bind name="foo" calculate="123"/> and <xf:variable name="foo" select="123" />

<nick> yes because a[$c = '1']/../../../.[$c = '1] will refer to the same nodeset

<nick> also if the path is inside the repeat, and ../../.. breaks outside the repeat

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html

<nick> a big difference between variables and binds is that our variables should be scoped, and the binds are global

<John_Boyer> Please scroll to point 5f

<John_Boyer> to see the canonical form, modulo using id on bind rather than name on bind

<nick> we could make variables in the model also global, but putting variables in the UI should result in local variables

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html

<Charlie> i was originally opposed to having both $ and non-$ notation, but now like the ability to have a "flat" space of names, so I'm +1

<nick> Since a couple of weeks, I'm personally convinced that the $ proposal is good proposal for me. So for me we can start working on the details on a separate call

<John_Boyer> I like the dollar syntax as an easier way for people to get started and go for longer with a "flat space" understanding of the world, and then they can scale up to full XPath without too much pain.

+1

<markbirbeck> +1

<wellsk> Keith says move forward +1

<unl> +/-0

<Steven> +0

<John_Boyer> Proposed Resolution: Proceed to spec ready text on simplified syntax and canonical form expressed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html plus name attr on bind as way to create variables

<Steven> Let's add <font> to XHTML to persuade people to use CSS ;-)

RESOLUTION: Proceed to spec ready text on simplified syntax and canonical form expressed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html plus name attr on bind as way to create variables

<scribe> ACTION: John_Boyer to provide spec ready text on simplified syntax and canonical form expressed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html plus name attr on bind as way to create variables [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - jboyer

<nick> bye

<SusanB> bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jboyer to write up spec-ready text proposal for 1.2 for Behavior of replace=text for submissions that retrieve non-text as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0079.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: John_Boyer to provide spec ready text on simplified syntax and canonical form expressed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html plus name attr on bind as way to create variables [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven Pemberton to review XML Base PER June 30 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0087.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2008/04/02 16:17:04 $

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Succeeded: s/John Boyer/jboyer/
Succeeded: s/John_Boyer/jboyer/
Found Scribe: Leigh
Found ScribeNick: klotz
Default Present: Charlie, John_Boyer, Susan_Borgrink, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, +1.919.254.aaaa, unl, wellsk, Leigh_Klotz, [IPcaller], ebruchez, Steven, Rafael, +0208761aabb, markbirbeck
Present: Charlie John_Boyer Susan_Borgrink Nick_van_den_Bleeken +1.919.254.aaaa unl wellsk Leigh_Klotz [IPcaller] ebruchez Steven Rafael +0208761aabb markbirbeck
Regrets: Kenneth Joern
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0002.html
Got date from IRC log name: 02 Apr 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-minutes.html
People with action items: jboyer john_boyer pemberton steven

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