IRC log of waf on 2008-03-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:02:49 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #waf
12:02:49 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-irc
12:02:54 [claudio]
claudio has joined #waf
12:03:07 [ArtB]
Meeting: WAF WG's Widgets Voice Conf
12:03:13 [ArtB]
Date: 6 March 2008
12:03:17 [ArtB]
Scribe: Art
12:03:20 [Zakim]
+??P3
12:03:25 [ArtB]
ScribeNick: ArtB
12:03:28 [ArtB]
Chair: Art
12:03:32 [marcos_]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
12:03:32 [Zakim]
+marcos_; got it
12:04:43 [ArtB]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-appformats/2008Mar/0001.html
12:05:07 [benW]
Marcos, we're in the process of doing so at the moment
12:05:23 [ArtB]
Present: Art, Marcos, Claudio, Ben
12:05:43 [ArtB]
Topic: Agenda Review
12:05:47 [ArtB]
AB: any changes?
12:06:03 [ArtB]
MC: I was hoping Arve would participate but I'm OK with the agenda
12:06:18 [ArtB]
AB: I'll follow up with Arve to determine his status
12:06:33 [ArtB]
... important to have active participation from Opera
12:06:39 [Zakim]
+Caroline
12:06:51 [ArtB]
zakim, Caroline is Benoit
12:06:51 [Zakim]
+Benoit; got it
12:07:14 [ArtB]
Present: Art, Marcos, Claudio, Ben (BW), Benoit (BS)
12:07:15 [arve]
arve has joined #waf
12:07:21 [ArtB]
Topic: Charter Update
12:07:23 [arve]
sorry, a bit late
12:07:27 [arve]
will call in in a minute
12:07:32 [marcos_]
cool
12:07:43 [ArtB]
AB: I talked to Mike Smith earlier this week and he said the charter is still being reviewed by the Team
12:08:01 [ArtB]
AB: it seems unlikely the "mega charter" will prevail
12:08:17 [ArtB]
... and more likely that at least two WGs will be be proposed
12:08:35 [ArtB]
... and the AC4CSR spec may be in a separate WG just for that spec
12:09:03 [ArtB]
Topic: Publication Moratorium for 1H08
12:09:07 [anne]
for real?
12:09:09 [anne]
wow
12:09:13 [anne]
that's silly
12:09:28 [marcos_]
it's called the Anne Working Group
12:09:34 [ArtB]
AB: the upcoming AC meeting and WWW2008 in April is cause for a moratorium
12:09:46 [ArtB]
... April 15 is the deadline for publication requests
12:09:49 [anne]
seems easier to move it away from the W3c again then though, given all the overhead
12:10:20 [ArtB]
AB: I will be making a WAF/Widgets preso at WWW2008
12:10:35 [ArtB]
... It would be great to have some new pubs out before the conf
12:11:12 [Zakim]
+ +47.66.99.aacc
12:11:21 [ArtB]
zakim, aacc is Arve
12:11:21 [Zakim]
+Arve; got it
12:11:36 [ArtB]
MC: we can try to publish all 3 widgets doc on that date
12:11:50 [ArtB]
AB: that would be fantastic
12:12:13 [ArtB]
Present: Art, Marcos, Claudio, Ben (BW), Benoit (BS), Arve
12:12:40 [ArtB]
BS: are your slides ready?
12:12:45 [ArtB]
AB: not yet
12:12:56 [ArtB]
BS: would be good for our internal presentation
12:13:00 [ArtB]
AB: understand
12:13:38 [ArtB]
ACTION: submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008
12:13:38 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - submit
12:13:55 [ArtB]
ACTION: Barstow submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008
12:13:55 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-173 - Submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-03-13].
12:14:02 [marcos_]
Widget presentation: http://www.slideshare.net/mcaceres/widgets-125319
12:15:59 [ArtB]
Topic: f2f Meeting
12:16:29 [ArtB]
AB: Guido told me yesterday he needs one more day to try to find funding to host the meeting in Dublin
12:17:21 [ArtB]
... I will give him another 24 hours
12:17:27 [ArtB]
ABe: I
12:17:34 [ArtB]
ABe: I'm ok with either
12:17:50 [ArtB]
AB: Claudio, June 3-5 in Turin is OK?
12:17:57 [ArtB]
Claudio: yes
12:18:41 [ArtB]
Topic: Widgets Spec
12:19:43 [ArtB]
AB: issues: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/waf/products/5
12:19:43 [MikeSmith]
MikeSmith has joined #waf
12:22:22 [ArtB]
AB: I've been thinking about a Level 1 and Level 2 split of the spec
12:22:22 [benoit]
benoit has joined #waf
12:22:29 [ArtB]
ABe: I agree to some extent
12:23:15 [ArtB]
... for example Bernardo will not be able to contribute to the PKCS#7 discussion
12:23:32 [ArtB]
... I think we need to leave some stuff off the table for L1
12:23:48 [ArtB]
MC: I think we've essentially agreed on Dig Signatures
12:24:06 [ArtB]
... but we still have a few issues e.g. how much of XPath and Cannon to implement
12:24:44 [ArtB]
AB: proposal to close Issue #12 with a resolution that we will use XML Signature
12:24:48 [ArtB]
AB: any objections?
12:24:51 [ArtB]
[none]
12:25:07 [ArtB]
RESOLUTION: we will use XML Signature and close issue #12 accordingly
12:25:26 [ArtB]
Topic: Level 1 and Level 2
12:25:55 [ArtB]
MC: I agree as well
12:26:11 [ArtB]
... I've already mades some spec simplifications just within the last week
12:26:24 [ArtB]
... e.g. folder stuff
12:26:39 [ArtB]
CV: can you assign a timeframe for L1 and L2?
12:26:58 [ArtB]
... e.g. when would a L2 spec be ready for impl?
12:27:14 [ArtB]
... I don't think the market would wait too long
12:27:43 [ArtB]
MC: if you can help Edit Claudio that would help
12:27:51 [ArtB]
... us to make progress
12:28:20 [ArtB]
... we need inputs for most if not all of the red blocks
12:28:32 [ArtB]
... our goal for L1 is October Last Call
12:28:51 [ArtB]
CV: and then start thinking about L2 in October?
12:29:07 [ArtB]
MC: you could start L2 now
12:29:56 [ArtB]
... we could publish it when its ready e.g. technically sound, etc.
12:32:22 [marcos_]
L1: packaging format (zip), Config document, Processing model, base API, base events, digital sigs
12:33:16 [marcos_]
Processing model = XML Processing and how to process the package (files, folders)
12:33:38 [ArtB]
BW: I agree in principle to concentrate on the basics so I support the L1 and L2 split
12:34:07 [benoit]
BS: the question is really to decide if an L2 finalized can be added to the spec
12:34:52 [ArtB]
MC: I think yes
12:36:34 [ArtB]
... if the items are ready, we could move them into L2
12:37:01 [ArtB]
CV: I understand the concerns Marcos is raising i.e. who's going to actually do the work
12:38:49 [ArtB]
... we are particularly interested in the cross-widget messaging stuff
12:39:02 [ArtB]
MC: we need an input for that
12:39:18 [ArtB]
... as Nokia did with their digital signature input
12:39:47 [ArtB]
CV: OK, I'll think about it
12:40:57 [ArtB]
MC: I consider section 4 and 5 essentially done
12:42:44 [ArtB]
AB: we could rename the spec back to Widget Packaging Spec
12:43:08 [ArtB]
ABe: I'm in favor of something like Widget Packaging and Signature spec
12:43:34 [ArtB]
... I don't think the cross-widgets messaging stuff should be in the spec at all since that functionality is part of HTML5
12:43:52 [ArtB]
... and update is specified separately
12:44:47 [ArtB]
... rather than thinking about L1 and L2 should be thinking in terms of extensions
12:45:30 [ArtB]
MC: I would like this to be more modular as well; could even move the APIs to a separate spec
12:46:45 [ArtB]
CV: I'm not an HTML5 expert but I'm not sure if the Widgets cross-messaging requirements are fully covered by what is in HTML5
12:47:19 [ArtB]
ABe: HTML5 probably satisfies the requirements for Widgets
12:47:44 [ArtB]
CV: I just wanted to know if our Widgets Reqs are covered by HTML5
12:48:26 [ArtB]
MC: I recommend reviewing the HTML5 model to see it covers the requirements you are thinking about
12:48:41 [ArtB]
... postMessage
12:50:22 [ArtB]
CV: we have been looking at the Open Ajax model
12:50:31 [ArtB]
... they are using a pub/sub model
12:50:39 [ArtB]
... and it seems like a good starting point
12:51:07 [ArtB]
MC: please do some analysis and let us know what you learned
12:54:01 [ArtB]
AB: to summarize, there is support for focusing on core functionality
12:54:10 [ArtB]
... this could mean three separate docs:
12:54:21 [ArtB]
... 1. Zip, config, Procssing model
12:54:32 [ArtB]
... 2. basic APIs and events
12:54:37 [ArtB]
... 3. Signature
12:56:23 [ArtB]
AB: we could then add other specs as needed
12:57:24 [ArtB]
AB: is this what we want to do?
12:57:38 [ArtB]
BS: this is more docs. Is this OK with you Marcos?
12:57:50 [ArtB]
MC: I would Arve to take the APIs and Events
12:58:18 [ArtB]
ABe: that will be difficult for me to meet by the April 15 deadline
12:59:26 [ArtB]
MC: I can take the signauture part and ask TLR for some help
12:59:37 [ArtB]
AB: I can help of the signature part too
13:00:41 [ArtB]
AB: regarding doc #2, for April 15 we could just cut-and-paste what we have now
13:01:02 [marcos_]
zakim, who is making noise?
13:01:13 [Zakim]
marcos_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +44.791.999.aabb (17%), marcos_ (10%), Arve (9%)
13:01:19 [ArtB]
AB: is splitting the doc into these 3 parts doable by April 15?
13:01:22 [ArtB]
MC: yes
13:01:29 [arve]
Looking at section 7, we have mostly complete text
13:01:31 [marcos_]
zakim, mute me
13:01:31 [Zakim]
marcos_ should now be muted
13:01:42 [marcos_]
zakim, unmute me
13:01:42 [Zakim]
marcos_ should no longer be muted
13:01:44 [arve]
zakim, mute me
13:01:44 [Zakim]
Arve should now be muted
13:01:50 [ArtB]
AB: proposals to split the current doc into three parts as described above
13:01:52 [arve]
zakim, unmute me
13:01:52 [Zakim]
Arve should no longer be muted
13:01:57 [ArtB]
AB: any objections?
13:01:59 [ArtB]
[none]
13:02:01 [arve]
no
13:02:05 [marcos_]
zakim, mute 44.791.999.aabb
13:02:06 [Zakim]
sorry, marcos_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to 44.791.999.aabb
13:02:15 [ArtB]
RESOLUTION: the Widgets 1.0 spec will be split into three separate specs
13:02:20 [marcos_]
zakim, mute +44.791.999.aabb
13:02:24 [Zakim]
+44.791.999.aabb should now be muted
13:02:30 [marcos_]
:)
13:03:07 [ArtB]
AB: anything else for today?
13:03:15 [marcos_]
zakim, unmute +44.791.999.aabb
13:03:15 [Zakim]
+44.791.999.aabb should no longer be muted
13:03:17 [marcos_]
zakim, mute +44.791.999.aabb
13:03:17 [Zakim]
+44.791.999.aabb should now be muted
13:03:22 [marcos_]
zakim, unmute +44.791.999.aabb
13:03:22 [Zakim]
+44.791.999.aabb should no longer be muted
13:03:24 [Zakim]
-Benoit
13:03:28 [ArtB]
AB: next week will start with section 4.1
13:03:28 [Zakim]
- +39.011.228.aaaa
13:03:30 [Zakim]
-Arve
13:03:30 [claudio]
quit
13:03:32 [Zakim]
- +44.791.999.aabb
13:03:33 [ArtB]
AB: meeting adjourned
13:03:50 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:04:02 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
13:04:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-minutes.html ArtB
13:04:43 [Zakim]
-Art_Barstow
13:05:17 [ArtB]
zakim, bye
13:05:17 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Art_Barstow, +39.011.228.aaaa, +44.791.999.aabb, marcos_, Benoit, +47.66.99.aacc, Arve
13:05:17 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #waf
13:06:19 [ArtB]
rrsagent, bye
13:06:19 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-actions.rdf :
13:06:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008 [1]
13:06:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-irc#T12-13-38
13:06:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Barstow submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008 [2]
13:06:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-irc#T12-13-55