IRC log of sml on 2008-02-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 18:55:48 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #sml
- 18:55:48 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-sml-irc
- 18:57:30 [johnarwe]
- johnarwe has joined #sml
- 18:59:22 [Zakim]
- MSM, you asked to be reminded at this time to call in
- 19:00:11 [Valentina]
- Valentina has joined #sml
- 19:00:22 [Jim]
- Jim has joined #sml
- 19:00:38 [MSM]
- zakim, please call MSM-617
- 19:00:38 [Zakim]
- ok, MSM; the call is being made
- 19:00:39 [Zakim]
- XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has now started
- 19:00:40 [Zakim]
- +MSM
- 19:00:48 [Zakim]
- +johnarwe
- 19:00:49 [MSM]
- MSM has changed the topic to: SML WG call, agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Feb/0114.html
- 19:01:05 [Zakim]
- +Valentina
- 19:01:14 [Zakim]
- +Jim
- 19:02:06 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 19:02:24 [ginny]
- ginny has joined #sml
- 19:02:34 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 19:02:45 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 19:02:46 [pratul]
- Zakim, Microsoft is me
- 19:02:47 [Zakim]
- +pratul; got it
- 19:03:06 [ginny]
- zakim, ??P12 is me
- 19:03:06 [Zakim]
- +ginny; got it
- 19:03:29 [Zakim]
- +Kumar
- 19:04:13 [Sandy]
- Sandy has joined #sml
- 19:05:38 [Valentina]
- scribenick: Valentina
- 19:05:54 [Valentina]
- chair: John
- 19:06:10 [Valentina]
- Meeting: SML teleconference
- 19:09:16 [johnarwe]
- zakim, who's here?
- 19:09:16 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see MSM, johnarwe, Valentina, Jim, ??P10, pratul, ginny, Kumar
- 19:09:18 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Sandy, ginny, Jim, Valentina, johnarwe, RRSAgent, pratul, Zakim, MSM, trackbot-ng
- 19:09:42 [Jordan]
- Jordan has joined #sml
- 19:09:45 [Sandy]
- zakim, ? is me.
- 19:09:45 [Zakim]
- +Sandy; got it
- 19:09:53 [Kumar]
- Kumar has joined #sml
- 19:09:59 [Valentina]
- Topic: Approval of minutes from previous meeting(s)
- 19:10:08 [Valentina]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Feb/att-0086/SML_Teleconference_--_07_Feb_2008.htm
- 19:10:25 [Zakim]
- +jboucher
- 19:10:49 [Valentina]
- Ginny: a discussion about the SML-IF consumer, required a bug to be opened by Ginny; Ginny is not planning to submit a bug
- 19:11:15 [Valentina]
- Kumar: not confortable with the current text but can accept the current content
- 19:11:43 [MSM]
- Ginny, is this in connection with 4675?
- 19:12:16 [Valentina]
- Ginny: all the notes dicussion is not in the meeting minutes;the notes were private
- 19:13:10 [Valentina]
- John : Kumar will take a look at the minutes and minutes will be updated next week
- 19:13:20 [MSM]
- So for purposes of today's minutes, the key points are (a) that Ginny doesn't currently plan to open a bug after all, and (b) Kumar is reluctantly willing to let it go
- 19:13:41 [Valentina]
- s/updated/approved
- 19:14:27 [Valentina]
- Topic: news from the CG
- 19:15:19 [Valentina]
- John: plan to point them to the editor's copy as soon as 5181 is finalized
- 19:15:34 [Valentina]
- Topic: Action items
- 19:16:42 [Valentina]
- John: proposal for 5417 is overdue
- 19:17:53 [Valentina]
- Kumar: On action 9, a discussion had taken place with the right group. It seems that there is no best practices available yet.
- 19:18:09 [Valentina]
- Kumar: proposes to close this action until a best practices is defined
- 19:18:17 [Valentina]
- Resolution: Kumar will close this action
- 19:19:04 [Valentina]
- John: Kirk has one action overdue; Kirk not here today
- 19:19:20 [Valentina]
- Topic: Review bugs with no keywords or target
- 19:19:58 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5390
- 19:20:08 [Valentina]
- John: proposes to target this for CR
- 19:20:20 [Valentina]
- Resolution: target bug to CR
- 19:20:43 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5478
- 19:20:57 [Valentina]
- John: propose to mark editorial, and target for LC
- 19:21:38 [Valentina]
- Resolution: mark editorial, target to LC
- 19:22:21 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5423
- 19:22:39 [Zakim]
- +Zulah_Eckert
- 19:23:35 [zulah]
- zulah has joined #sml
- 19:24:04 [Valentina]
- Ginny: commenting on John's description in comment #7
- 19:24:42 [Valentina]
- Ginny: proposes to reduces the amount of text in this definitions; they are repeated in other sections
- 19:24:53 [Valentina]
- s/reduces/reduce
- 19:25:06 [Valentina]
- s/this/these
- 19:25:59 [zeckert]
- zeckert has joined #sml
- 19:26:21 [Valentina]
- John: remove the second sentence in all three definitions and leave the rest ( looking at comment #7 in bugzilla )
- 19:27:07 [Valentina]
- Resoultion : remove the second sentence in all three definitions and leave the rest ( looking at comment #7 in bugzilla )
- 19:29:10 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5398
- 19:30:30 [Valentina]
- Ginny: has a problem with vacuous document
- 19:30:45 [Valentina]
- Ginny: need a definition of this term
- 19:32:14 [Valentina]
- Kumar: used this term because MSM mentioned that XML Schema is using the same term
- 19:32:41 [Valentina]
- MSM: does not remember about this term in XML Schema
- 19:33:32 [Valentina]
- Kumar: Ginny is fine with the notion but not the used word; proposes to have Ginny come up with a better term
- 19:34:12 [Valentina]
- Ginny: agrees to proposes a new term
- 19:34:32 [Valentina]
- s/proposes/propose
- 19:35:47 [Valentina]
- Resolutionmy phone seesm to be on mute..
- 19:36:27 [Valentina]
- I can hear you but can't tak..
- 19:36:36 [Valentina]
- yes
- 19:36:46 [Valentina]
- I'll call back
- 19:36:48 [Zakim]
- -Valentina
- 19:37:31 [Zakim]
- +Valentina
- 19:37:35 [ginny]
- Action: Virginia to open bug to decide on a term for 'vacuous'
- 19:37:35 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-170 - Open bug to decide on a term for 'vacuous' [on Virginia Smith - due 2008-02-21].
- 19:38:47 [Valentina]
- Tpic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5398
- 19:39:09 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5398
- 19:39:29 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5306
- 19:40:04 [Valentina]
- Resolution: closed as resolved
- 19:40:25 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5418
- 19:41:14 [MSM]
- [Not something that needs to delay resolution of the bug, but a possible editorial change: for the existing text, read:
- 19:41:15 [MSM]
- An SML-IF producer MAY declare that a model conforms to a specific
- 19:41:15 [MSM]
- version of the SML-IF specification by including the version number of
- 19:41:16 [MSM]
- the relevant specification as the value of the SMLIFVersion attribute
- 19:41:16 [MSM]
- in the document's model element.
- 19:41:17 [MSM]
- ]
- 19:42:36 [johnarwe]
- preceding is a re-word of 1st sentence, relevant to 5306
- 19:42:50 [Valentina]
- MSM: suggests an editorial update, see comments above
- 19:43:18 [Valentina]
- Resolution: resolved, with a possible update as suggested by MSM
- 19:43:51 [Valentina]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 19:43:51 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-sml-minutes.html Valentina
- 19:44:07 [johnarwe]
- 06MSM can live with that, won't open new bug01
- 19:44:11 [Valentina]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 19:45:53 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5063
- 19:49:26 [Valentina]
- Kumar: agrees with Sandy's comments covered under comment #17
- 19:51:07 [Valentina]
- Resolution: make the changes proposed in comment #17 and close the defect as resolved ( mark editorial )
- 19:51:25 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5064
- 19:51:49 [Valentina]
- Kumar: addressed by the proposal in 5063, comment #17
- 19:52:19 [Valentina]
- Resolution: will be closed when 5063 is resolved
- 19:53:03 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5402
- 19:56:54 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 19:57:16 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5408
- 19:59:40 [Valentina]
- MSM: suggests to link this defect with 5462
- 20:00:22 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:00:34 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5416
- 20:01:45 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:01:53 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5424
- 20:04:36 [Valentina]
- Ginny: the note sections should be changed to align with the standard format for notes
- 20:05:25 [Valentina]
- MSM: proposes to remove 'This note is non-normative' from all notes and make a note at the beginning about all notes being non-normative
- 20:05:53 [MSM]
- [The rule about notes being non-normative is in fact already present in 2.1: "The content of this specification is normative except for sections, notes, or texts that are explicitly marked as non-normative."]
- 20:06:33 [Valentina]
- Kumar: can fix 6a and 6b from comment #3; proposes to mark the bug editorial
- 20:07:33 [Valentina]
- Resolution: mark editorial and fix according to comment #3
- 20:07:46 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5462
- 20:11:35 [Valentina]
- John: leave more time for the group to review comments #5 and #6; mark bug editorial
- 20:12:54 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5448
- 20:13:57 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:14:09 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5450
- 20:14:39 [Valentina]
- John: no reason for keeping this defect opened
- 20:15:09 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:15:29 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5457
- 20:15:59 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:16:09 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5410
- 20:16:46 [Valentina]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 20:16:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-sml-minutes.html Valentina
- 20:16:48 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:17:00 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5417
- 20:19:27 [Valentina]
- Kumar: wonder if the defect requires to clarify an existing notion or expects to change the meaning
- 20:20:19 [Valentina]
- Kumar: if this requires chages in the meaning of the rules, this change may affect the LC date
- 20:21:23 [Valentina]
- MSM: not sure if this is going to fall in the first or second bucket
- 20:23:58 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5429
- 20:24:49 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:25:51 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5395
- 20:26:15 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:26:41 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5400
- 20:28:11 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:28:22 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5430
- 20:28:55 [Valentina]
- shoud be closed :)
- 20:28:59 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:29:21 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5437
- 20:29:57 [Valentina]
- yes
- 20:30:15 [Valentina]
- Resolution: close as resolved
- 20:30:31 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5463
- 20:30:56 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5181
- 20:31:58 [Valentina]
- Ginny: still reading through this section
- 20:32:12 [Valentina]
- Ginny: the non-normative sections is a bit confusing
- 20:32:22 [Valentina]
- s/sections/section
- 20:33:07 [Valentina]
- Ginny: will have this done by tomorrow
- 20:33:47 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5479
- 20:41:53 [Valentina]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5463
- 20:46:16 [johnarwe]
- A set of XML documents is a conforming SML model if and only if it satisfies the following conditions:
- 20:46:16 [johnarwe]
-
- 20:46:16 [johnarwe]
- 1.
- 20:46:16 [johnarwe]
-
- 20:46:16 [johnarwe]
- Each document in the model MUST be a well-formed XML document [XML]
- 20:46:17 [johnarwe]
- 2.
- 20:46:20 [johnarwe]
-
- 20:46:21 [johnarwe]
- Each XML Schema document in the model's definition documents MUST satisfy the conditions expressed in Errors in Schema Construction and Structure (�5.1). [XML Schema Structures]
- 20:46:24 [johnarwe]
- 3.
- 20:46:26 [johnarwe]
-
- 20:46:28 [johnarwe]
- Each Schematron document in the model's definition documents MUST be a valid Schematron document [ISO/IEC 19757-3]
- 20:50:54 [Valentina]
- MSM: is the requirement mentioned in this defect feasible ?
- 20:53:17 [Valentina]
- Kumar: the requirement is not that the references be valid but to be defined using the SML reference scheme
- 20:53:56 [Valentina]
- s/SML reference scheme/SML URI reference scheme
- 20:54:43 [Valentina]
- MSM: Kumar's comment addresses his concern
- 20:56:57 [MSM]
- [But I notice a new concern: what we intend is that the SML-IF producer's output be 'equivalent' to the input SML model, for some suitable definition of equivalence.]
- 20:58:22 [MSM]
- [But the current prose does not define equivalence. I think I'm hearing Kumar say a suitable definition of equivalence is not possible.]
- 20:59:27 [MSM]
- If an SML-IF producer translates every SML model as input into <sml:if/> (or whatever the smallest SML-IF model is), is it
- 20:59:33 [MSM]
- (a) conforming but not very useful, or
- 20:59:36 [MSM]
- (b) non-conforming?
- 21:00:18 [Valentina]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 21:00:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-sml-minutes.html Valentina
- 21:04:13 [Zakim]
- -jboucher
- 21:04:17 [Jordan]
- hard stop, bfn
- 21:04:32 [Zakim]
- -Zulah_Eckert
- 21:05:14 [Zakim]
- -pratul
- 21:08:11 [Valentina]
- Resolution: fix the bug as in comment #1 and add a non-normative section stating that the expectation is that the in put and output model are equivalent; the notion of equivalence will not be defined
- 21:08:23 [Zakim]
- -Valentina
- 21:08:32 [Zakim]
- -MSM
- 21:08:36 [Zakim]
- -Sandy
- 21:08:38 [Jim]
- Jim has left #sml
- 21:08:44 [Zakim]
- -ginny
- 21:08:45 [Zakim]
- -Jim
- 21:08:46 [Zakim]
- -Kumar
- 21:08:46 [Zakim]
- XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has ended
- 21:08:48 [Zakim]
- Attendees were MSM, johnarwe, Valentina, Jim, pratul, ginny, Kumar, Sandy, jboucher, Zulah_Eckert
- 21:09:18 [johnarwe]
- johnarwe has left #sml
- 21:09:30 [Valentina]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 21:09:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-sml-minutes.html Valentina
- 22:42:51 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #sml