See also: IRC log
DanC: going around the table in Zakim order
Julian: I'm interested in talking about the modularity issue
Sam: I have no preferences at the moment, first telcon I've joined, I have no preferences
DanC: I think the HTML5 spec release is worth a little partying
shepazu: interested in modularity but I don't want to drive the meeting
DanC: I need to be out of here at 12:00 central
<DanC> Simple things make firm foundations
DanC: one side note related to modularity is in W3 Q&A weblog
<DanC> TAG blog
DanC: from W3C Director Tim Berners-Lee
<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/01/modularity.html
anne: I read that as saying that
it could be *implemented* in a modular way
... not necessarily written in a modular way
<DanC> action-13?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-13 -- Chris Wilson to talk to WebAPI and WAF WGs about their role in offline API stuff and how they work with and contribute to the discussion -- due 2008-02-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/13
ChrisWilson: no progress on that yet
<DanC> action-14?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-14 -- Chris Wilson to get more information on MS patent review with <canvas> -- due 2008-03-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/14
ChrisWilson: This obviously is in
progress but I won't have anything to say until our legal team
gets back
... March 1st is probably before they will be done, but I don't
want to drop it
<DanC> action-14?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-14 -- Chris Wilson to get more information on MS patent review with <canvas> -- due 2008-05-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/14
<DanC> action-27?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-27 -- Dan Connolly to draft a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with microformats.org regarding @rel values -- due 2008-01-31 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/27
DanC: a little progress on this
...
... I talked with Rigo Wenning
... he's interested in having the registry at W3C
... also David Orchard of BEA
... I continue to investigate the microformats.org
... wondering for example what would happen if they get
sued
<DanC> action-38?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-38 -- Dan Connolly to chairs to review need for amending charter with Director -- due 2008-01-24 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/38
DanC: hmm, due today... I guess we're not done with that
ChrisWilson: right, I don't think we've reached a conclusion on that
DanC: I'm gonna get progress on that in the next week, most likely
<DanC> action-41?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-41 -- Dan Connolly to consider a new requirements issue about the overlap with HTTP -- due 2008-01-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/41
DanC: time with ... Tim maybe today
<DanC> action-28?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-28 -- Dan Connolly to consult with the Hypertext CG and W3C management about how much time W3C member organizations should be allowed to study the patent implications of an HTML 5 spec 1st WD -- due 2007-12-19 -- CLOSED
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/28
<DanC> issue-28?
<trackbot-ng> ISSUE-28 -- Content type rules in HTML 5 overlaps with the HTTP specification? -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/28
DanC: basically, I almost did an
Internet Draft back in August
... I've not checked what impact if any this might have on the
HTML spec
trackbot-ng, close action-41
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-41 Consider a new requirements issue about the overlap with HTTP closed
DanC: Julian, you expressed some interest in that?
Julian: the content-type sniffing thing?
DanC: yeah
Julian: yeah, let's talk about it
now
... issue is that HTML spec mandates content-type sniffing
...
... while the HTTP spec and TAG document prohibit it
DanC: I would really like a test case
Julian: I think Ian Hickson has a
big set of test cases
... related to this
Hixie ?
DanC: anybody got a URL for that?
<Julian> test cases: http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/
DanC: would like EARL reports on
these
... would like review by the HTTP working group
Julian: We have the argument
that, on the one hand, the specs require to trust the
content-type that is given
... but the HTML spec requiring UAs not to do that
<gsnedders> Julian: didn't you mean http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ ?
Julian: also the ongoing discussing about if a UA is required to report discrepancies if it does sniffing and finds them
<DanC> trackbot-ng, status
<gsnedders> (the ones in the parent folder merely check it obeys the given content-type in some cases)
<Julian> gsnedders: yeah
<DanC> . ACTION: Julian to investigate expected results to http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/ tests in collaboration with the IETF HTTP WG
<gsnedders> DanC: http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ it should be
<DanC> ACTION: Julian to investigate expected results to http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ tests in collaboration with the IETF HTTP WG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-44 - Investigate expected results to http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ tests in collaboration with the IETF HTTP WG [on Julian Reschke - due 2008-01-31].
Julian: looking at that, it seems like the tests may actually have expected results stated
<DanC> ACTION: Dan to developer EARL/hReview reports based on http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ from a handful of user agents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-45 - Developer EARL/hReview reports based on http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ from a handful of user agents [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-01-31].
DanC: so much for that
<DanC> issue-29?
<trackbot-ng> ISSUE-29 -- Should the HTML 5 specification introduce URI schemes such as javascript:? -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/29
DanC: I might have jumped the gun on this on a little bit
<gsnedders> for javascript: the normal parsing rules for URIs can't apply, because it relies on all kinds of behaviour
DanC: anne clarified that there may be a separate draft spec related to this
<ChrisWilson> hmmm...that explains why I wasn't getting any updates.
DanC: we should decide as a
working group whether that's in scope
... anybody want to take action on that?
anne: what kind of action?
shepazu: leaving it in the "someday" pile means it stays in the spec ...
<DanC> (roll call isn't critical for this meeting, since decisions aren't binding)
<anne> http://www.websitedev.de/ietf/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-ri-00.txt
<anne> October 28, 2006
anne: there is no "01"
DanC: somebody should ping Bjoern about it
Julian: yeah, I can do that
... I think the javascript URI thing never went anywhere
...
... because nobody agreed it could [identify] a
resource
<DanC> ACTION: Julian ask B. Hoehrmann about any plans to update http://www.websitedev.de/ietf/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-ri-00.txt [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-46 - Ask B. Hoehrmann about any plans to update http://www.websitedev.de/ietf/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-ri-00.txt [on Julian Reschke - due 2008-01-31].
<Julian> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-scheme-00
DanC: anybody know if javascript:
is used outside of a@href ?
... used outside of HTML ?
<shepazu> I'm not sure that "javascript:" is much different in respect to defining a resource than "data:uri"
ChrisWilson: in Favorites
anne: also in SVG
DanC: user-agent community has
already to my satisfaction demonstrated that it could be used
[like? as?] a URI
... anybody sees Paul Krill's article?
<oedipus> there are MANY examples in the wild of javascript: being used as a pseudo-HREF -- javascript:var popupwin=this.window.open etc.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/01/22/W3C-offers-HTML-5-draft_1.html
<DanC> krill article http://www.infoworld.com/archives/emailPrint.jsp?R=printThis&A=/article/08/01/22/W3C-offers-HTML-5-draft_1.html
[[
"The most interesting thing will be what happens when those capabilities get into native HTML and what impact that has on the rich Internet development market," he said. Specific plug-in technologies are not supported on every platform, he said. "[Thusly], as a developer I might be more interested in writing HTML 5," Hammond said.
]]
<DanC> -- Jeffrey Hammond
<DanC> not even idiot comments: http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/08/01/22/175243.shtml
DanC: and HTML5 got on Slashdot...
<DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/
DanC: so this publication has
actually generated comments on the public-html-comments
list
... If you respond to comments there, make it clear that you
are not responding on behalf of the working group
... the only way to respond on behalf of the group is to quote
an actual working-group decision
<Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to comment on that article and to suggest we encourage members of the WG to subscribe to the comments list
<anne> http://cgi.w3.org/member-bin/MailingListQuery.pl?queryList=public-html-comments says 41
<oedipus> GJR: mikeTMsmith, although it is a top-level link on the HTML WG page, most people don't know of its existence and even though in the spec, people diving down into details and skipping the intro, which is human nature, which cannot be changed....
oedipus - true that
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/3
<oedipus> mikeTMsmith - it's the danger of checklists and best practices documents -- people work off of them, rather than the actual TR
<DanC> issue-19?
<trackbot-ng> ISSUE-19 -- HTML 5 specification 1st release as W3C WD -- CLOSED
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/19
DanC: product3 in tracker is W3C publications
<gsnedders> MikeSmith: action-37 can be closed
April 22
DanC: what's the next draft anybody wants to see published?
ChrisWilson: I would like to put
in a request to not re-publish the spec every 3 months
... (because of need to do patent review)
<gsnedders> I don't think it's worthwhile republishing the spec every 3 months, but what other documents do we have that change enough to be worthwhile publishing?
ChrisWilson: we either have to do a patent review every time we publish the spec, or we have to agree before publishing [about all changes that go into the spec between publications]
<Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask if WCAG (web content accessibility guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL and ATAG (authoring tool accessibility wg - http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU) has been
<oedipus> has WCAG (web content accessibility guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL and ATAG (authoring tool accessibility wg - http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU) has been approached about working with HTML WG with on authoring guidelines? that is what these groups do, and both have expressed willingness to work with the HTML WG on such documentation
GR: has the WAI authoring-tool group or [other WAI group] been approached about collaborating?
DanC: not been approached to my knowledge
GR: I have talked to them, but I think they want somebody other than me [from the HTML WG] to approach them
DanC: they are hereby welcomed
<DanC> trackbot-ng, status
<DanC> ACTION: Gregory: invite ATAG and WCAG WGs to help with HTML 5 authoring guidelines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - Gregory:
<oedipus> DanC, use wai-liaison@w3.org and what other public list
<DanC> ACTION: Gregory invite ATAG and WCAG WGs to help with HTML 5 authoring guidelines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-47 - Invite ATAG and WCAG WGs to help with HTML 5 authoring guidelines [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-01-31].
action-37?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-37 -- Michael(tm) Smith to announce Planet HTML5 on public-html-announce, http://www.w3.org/html/, wherever else appropriate -- due 2008-01-24 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/37
<DanC> action-29
<DanC> action-29?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-29 -- Dan Connolly to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2008-01-31 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29
trackbot-ng, close action-37
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-37 Announce Planet HTML5 on public-html-announce, http://www.w3.org/html/, wherever else appropriate closed
DanC: I did follow up on
action-29 ...
... it has gone up the tree ...
... I don't know if it has gone up to the Pope yet ...
... I did not push it [all the way] up the hill yet
<oedipus> GJR: if DanC wants to play sissyphus than he will plus one
Sam: I encourage you to pursue it, Dan
<oedipus> GJR: am checking what ATAG documents do...
DanC: use case: sometimes it's
useful for certain kinds of applications to emit messages that
quote parts of W3C specs ...
... [but applications are currently not free to do that because
of W3C license restrictions]
anne: [there is some precedent for dual licensing]
<DanC> action-32?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-32 -- Michael(tm) Smith to change the product name of "HTML 5 authoring guidelines" in the tracker to something else, eventually -- due 2008-01-24 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/32
shepazu: some in AC may be concerned about it setting a precedent
trackbot-ng, close action-32
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-32 Change the product name of "HTML 5 authoring guidelines" in the tracker to something else, eventually closed
<DanC> action-33?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-33 -- Chris Wilson to investigate an HTML WG blog, a la the way the I18N WG does it -- due 2008-02-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/33
<shepazu> that's just my opinion, not a team stance
<gavin> e/win 26
anne: value of an HTML WG blog
might be a place for people to blog about HTML5 instead of just
on their blog
... I think Planet HTML5 is good enough
ChrisWilson: Planet HTML5 is just aggregating blogs from elsewhere ...
DanC: so far only the chairs are authorized to speak on behalf of the WG
<DanC> close action-33
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-33 Investigate an HTML WG blog, a la the way the I18N WG does it closed
<DanC> action-34?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-34 -- Lachlan Hunt to prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference -- due 2008-01-31 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/34
Lachy ?
you around?
<Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to mention mechanism that Planet HTML5
<DanC> (I think the mechanism Mike is mentioning is documented in recent mail to public-html )
<DanC> (a pointer would be nice...)
<oedipus> GJR's ARIA status report:
<oedipus> ARIA Suite will now contain: 1) ARIA Roadmap; 2) Roles, States, and Properties for Accessible Rich Internet Applications (combination of 2 previously separate documents); 3) ARIA Best Practices; and 4) ARIA Primer (new)
<oedipus> two approaches to embedding ARIA:
<oedipus> 1) no namespaces, no prefixes -- host languages reserve all attribute names matching the pattern aria-*. This allows the ARIA states and properties to be controlled by the PFWG specification, including future maintenance.
<oedipus> 2) by Namespaces in XML -- Role Attribute Module () will give @role a 'home' namespace from which it can be cited using the Namespaces in XML Recommendation technique, so that ARIA can be used in DIAL and other dialects of XHTML, which are likely to be used primarily to feed middleware, as there is no immediate prospect of this technology being picked up widely by browsers any time soon
<oedipus> testing - collaborative matrix (ARIA Test Tests) being maintained at: http://html4all.org/wiki/index.php/ARIATestTests
<oedipus> problem: links to Best Practices document (no public draft yet) and the 2 drafts that are now one, but are not yet public
<DanC> (I strongly encourage you to migrate from html4all.org to the esw.w3.org wiki)
oedipus: only reason it's at html4all is that esw wiki doesn't allow hyperlinks in <dt>
<DanC> ACTION-23?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-23 -- Gregory Rosmaita to coordinate tests using ARIA -- due 2008-01-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23
oedipus: I have to keep it open until new drafts come out ...
oedipus: because there have been changes
ChrisWilson: can't chair on 31st because I'll be at Web Directions North
DanC: I can't either
... propose to cancel 31 January and I can chair on 7 Feb
<DanC> so resolved
<sampablokuper> 2nded
[adjourned]