19:01:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sml
19:01:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/17-sml-irc
19:01:13 <johnarwe> johnarwe has joined #sml
19:01:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sml
19:01:29 <Sandy> Sandy has joined #sml
19:01:38 <jboucher> Scribe: Jordan Boucher
19:01:45 <jboucher> ScribeNick: jboucher
19:02:13 <jboucher> Meeting: SML Teleconference 2008-01-17
19:02:29 <johnarwe> zakim, this is sml
19:02:32 <Zakim> johnarwe, this was already XML_SMLWG()2:00PM
19:02:34 <Zakim> ok, johnarwe; that matches XML_SMLWG()2:00PM
19:02:49 <jboucher> Chair: John
19:03:08 <johnarwe> zakim, aadd is me
19:03:08 <Zakim> +johnarwe; got it
19:03:09 <Valentina> zakim, aabb is me
19:03:10 <Zakim> +Valentina; got it
19:03:21 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:03:26 <ginny> ginny has joined #sml
19:03:27 <zulah> zulah has joined #sml
19:03:27 <kirk> zakim, aacc is me
19:03:27 <Zakim> +kirk; got it
19:03:37 <MSM> MSM has changed the topic to: SML call 17 January http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Jan/0038.html
19:03:40 <Kumar> Kumar has joined #sml
19:03:46 <MSM> zakim, please call MSM-Office
19:03:46 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
19:03:47 <Zakim> +MSM
19:03:48 <jboucher> zakim, aaaa is me
19:03:48 <Zakim> +jboucher; got it
19:03:55 <Jim> Jim has joined #sml
19:04:09 <Zakim> + +1.610.277.aaee
19:04:43 <Zakim> +??P14
19:05:04 <Zakim> -??P14
19:05:28 <Zakim> + +1.530.823.aaff
19:05:35 <johnarwe> 06zakim, who's on the phone?01
19:05:50 <ginny> zakim, aaff is me
19:05:50 <Zakim> +ginny; got it
19:06:07 <johnarwe> zakim, who's here?
19:06:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see jboucher, Valentina, kirk, Sandy, johnarwe, [Microsoft], MSM, +1.610.277.aaee, ginny
19:06:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jim, Kumar, zulah, ginny, Sandy, Zakim, johnarwe, RRSAgent, kirk, Valentina, jboucher, MSM, trackbot-ng
19:06:38 <Kumar> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
19:06:38 <Zakim> +Kumar; got it
19:06:49 <Jim> zakim, aaee is me
19:06:49 <Zakim> +Jim; got it
19:08:02 <jboucher> Topic: roll call
19:08:11 <jboucher> regrets: Pratul, Zulah (partial)
19:08:18 <jboucher> Topic: approval of minutes
19:08:32 <jboucher> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Jan/att-0010/2008-01-03-minutes.htm
19:08:56 <jboucher> Resolution: minutes approved
19:09:07 <jboucher> Topic: overdue actions
19:10:53 <jboucher> only 1 and Pratul is not present
19:10:59 <jboucher> Topic: Bugs
19:12:00 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5368
19:12:12 <jboucher> Kumar: mark editorial
19:13:10 <jboucher> Resolution: so marked (by Ginny)
19:13:47 <jboucher> Valentina: point 2 & 3 are fixed by webmaster, only 1 is editorial now
19:13:56 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5379
19:14:32 <jboucher> John: needs agreement?
19:15:25 <jboucher> Resolution: so marked, target LC
19:17:27 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5380
19:18:40 <jboucher> Sandy: believes it is editorial
19:19:11 <jboucher> Resolution: so marked, answer to Sandy's final question is no
19:19:22 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5382
19:21:34 <pratul> pratul has joined #sml
19:22:32 <jboucher> Kirk: mark editorial
19:23:03 <jboucher> Resolution: so marked
19:23:09 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5383
19:23:45 <jboucher> Kirk: mark editorial, perhaps revisit for EPR note
19:25:50 <jboucher> Sandy: perhaps open a separate issue?
19:28:06 <jboucher> Kirk: will open an issue for the EPR note component
19:29:00 <johnarwe> Syntactically, the content of a locator can be a documentURI element defined by SML-IF or anything else understood by the consumer. Typically it is a URI, an XLink [XLink], or a Web Services Addressing endpoint reference [WS-Addressing Core].
19:29:37 <jboucher> Resolution: mark 5383 editorial, open new issue for EPR note
19:29:59 <jboucher> ... remove the sentence starting with "Typically ..."
19:30:07 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5384
19:32:29 <jboucher> Resolution: mark editorial, remove use of equivalent (and variants thereof)
19:32:34 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5386
19:34:04 <jboucher> Resolution: mark editorial
19:34:12 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5387
19:36:14 <jboucher> Kirk: addressed by content sent by Sandy earlier today
19:38:12 <johnarwe> The SML URI Scheme can be used in an SML-IF [SML-IF 1.1] document to reference documents from the interchange set.
19:39:24 <jboucher> Ginny: fixed right after the release of 3rd draft
19:39:37 <jboucher> Ginny: mark won't fix
19:40:02 <jboucher> Sandy: suggests duplicate instead
19:40:39 <jboucher> Resolution: make it so
19:40:43 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5388
19:40:49 <jboucher> Kirk: oh boy!
19:41:05 <jboucher> Kirk: mark needs review
19:42:04 <jboucher> Kirk: feels reference is overloaded and should be defined more clearly
19:44:58 <jboucher> John: check use of reference used on its own and qualify them
19:45:27 <jboucher> John: define SML reference and SML reference scheme
19:46:04 <jboucher> Kirk: distinguish use of scheme carefully as well, wrt. xpointer scheme
19:48:27 <jboucher> John: search and qualify use of scheme, in addition to reference
19:48:54 <ginny> Resolution: 
19:48:55 <ginny> Define 2 terms - SML Reference (currently "Reference" in the terminology section) and SML Reference scheme (definition should indicate that it is different from xpath schemes)
19:48:57 <ginny> Review all uses of unqualified "reference" and fix if necessary. Also review uses of "scheme".
19:48:58 <jboucher> Resolution: mark needs review, proposal is as discussed above
19:49:45 <ginny> s/xpath/xpointer/
19:50:14 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5389
19:50:36 <jboucher> Valentia: mark editorial
19:50:50 <jboucher> Resolution: so marked
19:51:28 <jboucher> Topic: Needs Review Bugs
19:51:34 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4687
19:53:01 <jboucher> John: has everyone had time?  any objections to marking fixed?
19:53:05 <jboucher> Resolution: so marked
19:54:06 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4774
19:54:45 <jboucher> John: has everyone had time to review?  any objections to marking fixed?
19:54:56 <jboucher> Resolution: so marked
19:55:06 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4992
19:55:51 <jboucher> Ginny: reviewed Sandy's suggestions and agrees
19:56:33 <jboucher> John: Kirk to add a link to comments in email
19:57:19 <jboucher> John: has everyone had time to review?  any objections to marking fixed?
19:57:51 <jboucher> s/fixed/editorial/
19:58:19 <jboucher> Resolution: mark as editorial
19:58:49 <jboucher> Topic: Needs Agreement Bugs
19:59:04 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5298
19:59:57 <jboucher> Sandy: target is CR, so skip
20:00:06 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5396
20:02:07 <jboucher> scratch 5396, it does not exist
20:02:12 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5306
20:14:17 <johnarwe> Kirk, Kumar: discussion of possibly reducing scope down to schema complete and versoin
20:14:48 <johnarwe> MSM: usefulness of version as a data-stamp, for debug, etc, but not for constraining consumers
20:15:35 <johnarwe> ...i.e. consumers must be required to proceed in the face of unknown versions, if (in a practical sense) you want to be able to deploy future versions.
20:20:44 <johnarwe> ...MSM strongly recommends using version numbers.  eg a 1.0 consumer, receiving a 2.0 document, still must attempt to process the 2.0 document (as a 1.0 document with some unknown extensions).  Since 1.0 consumers are not allowed to just fail based on the version number, a disincentive to deploying 2.0 producers is absent.
20:21:25 <johnarwe> ... If the 2.0 format also happens to be 1.0-compliant, works fine.
20:26:07 <jboucher> John: Kirk to rev proposal per scope discussed above
20:26:33 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5341
20:26:51 <jboucher> Sandy: also a CR target
20:27:13 <jboucher> ... skip it
20:27:20 <jboucher> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5379
20:28:11 <jboucher> MSM: my analysis has not progressed since last week, some by F2F next week
20:28:59 <jboucher> Kumar: some idea of where you are going?
20:30:42 <jboucher> MSM: yes, leaning towards all constraints on types and elements (and lots more summary stated on phone)
20:39:04 <jboucher> Kumar: what is the value of allowing constraints on both types and elements?
20:42:07 <jboucher> MSM: a reason is to allow acyclic and target* to defined in the same places
20:44:04 <jboucher> ... a 2nd reason is wrt language design choices/patterns
20:45:38 <jboucher> Ginny: I totally agree with MSM
20:50:00 <jboucher> ... 1) prefer working in types, 2) require good reasons for restrictions, 3) support consistency
20:51:55 <jboucher> Sandy: certain constraints make sense on elements but not types, XML schema examples support this pattern
20:54:25 <jboucher> John: points out design perspectives may have varied on decision points
20:54:49 <jboucher> ... why do it this way?  vs. why not do it this way?
20:55:38 <jboucher> ... what use case supports the decision?  or, contradicts it?
20:56:24 <jboucher> Ginny: acyclic was discussed for weeks and determined to be needed on types
20:59:24 <Jim> have to leave now.
20:59:27 <jboucher> Kumar: suggests impact to existing models is too great to allow target* on types
21:00:23 <Zakim> -Jim
21:00:30 <jboucher> MSM: suggests taking some further discussion into an email thread
21:01:16 <Zakim> -Kumar
21:01:18 <jboucher> rrsagent, make log public
21:01:33 <jboucher> rrsagent, draft minutes
21:01:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/17-sml-minutes.html jboucher
21:02:16 <Zakim> -kirk
21:02:40 <Zakim> -Sandy
21:03:04 <Zakim> -ginny
21:03:06 <Zakim> -Valentina
21:03:08 <Zakim> -jboucher
21:03:09 <Zakim> -johnarwe
21:03:14 <Zakim> -MSM
21:03:15 <Zakim> XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has ended
21:03:17 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.303.495.aaaa, +1.905.413.aabb, +1.603.823.aacc, Sandy, +1.845.433.aadd, johnarwe, Valentina, kirk, MSM, jboucher, +1.610.277.aaee, +1.530.823.aaff, ginny, Kumar,
21:03:19 <Zakim> ... Jim
21:03:21 <ginny>  /quit
21:03:33 <jboucher> rrsagent, bye
21:03:33 <RRSAgent> I see no action items