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13:56:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc
13:57:01 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS WG
13:57:03 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
13:57:08 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
13:57:13 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
13:58:01 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2007OctDec/0027.html
13:59:57 <Jirka> Jirka has joined #i18nits
14:00:08 <Zakim> I18N_TS()9:00AM has now started
14:00:16 <Zakim> + +420.4.824.0.aaaa
14:00:39 <YvesS> YvesS has joined #i18nits
14:01:04 <Zakim> -Jirka
14:01:07 <Zakim> +Jirka
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14:01:11 <Zakim> +Felix
14:01:37 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
14:01:43 <Zakim> +[SAP]
14:01:56 <Zakim> +??P12
14:02:02 <YvesS> zakim, who is there?
14:02:05 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, YvesS.
14:02:14 <YvesS> zakim, who is here?
14:02:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jirka, Felix, Yves_Savourel, Christian, Bartosz
14:02:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see chriLi, bbogacki, YvesS, Jirka, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, r12a, trackbot-ng
14:02:53 <fsasaki> topic: action items
14:02:55 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/International/its/track/actions/open
14:03:18 <fsasaki> ACTION-2 XHTML issues
14:03:22 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
14:03:22 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:03:25 <Zakim> +Richard
14:03:41 <fsasaki> Yves: need to decide whether to keep or remove the section
14:03:51 <fsasaki> ACTION-3 skipped for now
14:04:03 <fsasaki> ACTION-11 ITS and XForms
14:04:40 <fsasaki> ACTION-24 ITS and XProc
14:04:47 <fsasaki> Jirka: XProc new WD available
14:05:21 <fsasaki> ... there is an attribute with translatable content in the WD
14:05:59 <fsasaki> .. it is better than previous WD, but not completely resolved
14:06:06 <fsasaki> Yves: how to follow-up?
14:07:03 <fsasaki> Felix: propose that Jirka sends a mail to the XProc people with his concerns, keeping us in CC
14:07:14 <fsasaki> Jirka: OK, keep the AI open, I'll send a mail
14:07:43 <fsasaki> ACTION-31
14:08:11 <fsasaki> Yves: everything resolved here, AI can be closed
14:08:13 <fsasaki> Close ACTION-31
14:08:13 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-31 Provide correction for examples 39 and 40 closed
14:11:05 <fsasaki> ACTION-33
14:11:47 <fsasaki> pending
14:12:06 <fsasaki> ACTION-45 , done offline, but not closed yet
14:12:34 <fsasaki> ACTION-44 ongoing
14:12:56 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/TR/#last-call
14:13:04 <fsasaki> Topic: reviews
14:13:31 <fsasaki> nothing new
14:13:46 <fsasaki> topic: Best Practices Working Draft
14:14:49 <fsasaki> Yves: thanks to Richard a lot for editing, saw nothing except BP 24
14:14:54 <fsasaki> .. how about others?
14:15:18 <fsasaki> Richard: So I can accept also change to subtitles and blue background text?
14:15:47 <fsasaki> Felix: happy with the changes and moving forward
14:15:53 <fsasaki> s/happy/also/
14:16:00 <fsasaki> Yves: now BP 24
14:16:41 <fsasaki> Yves: sometimes we have XML files which contain XML source of some other files
14:18:20 <fsasaki> Felix: our examples in the XMLSPEC source are also XML data which is not part of the XMLSPEC vocabulary
14:18:58 <fsasaki> Yves: problem is for what is inside elements, mostly HTML data
14:19:10 <fsasaki> .. content is not authoring content, but just storage as XML
14:19:39 <fsasaki> Richard: you said "we can't add markup since it is storage". Were do you want to add markup?
14:20:11 <fsasaki> Yves: I don't want to add markup, just process the "stored as data" XML
14:20:34 <fsasaki> .. e.g. if we have XHTML data , the text should be XHTML markup 
14:21:32 <fsasaki> Richard: so how about our XHTML output of the BP document?
14:21:54 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.html#AuthMarkupAsText
14:21:56 <fsasaki> Yves: that is an output format, but in most cases we look into temporary stortage formats
14:23:24 <fsasaki> Richard: were do we have such scenarios: translation tools?
14:23:31 <fsasaki> Yves: yes, and spell checking, QA etc.
14:23:42 <fsasaki> .. all kinds of localization related processing
14:24:06 <fsasaki> .. often there is no way around this, but in some places it helps to use namespaces
14:25:10 <fsasaki> Richard: if we need to translate into Arabic and need to put e.g. a span element
14:25:49 <fsasaki> .. if you would have CDATA, you would put in the tags in escaped forms
14:25:59 <fsasaki> Yves: problem is not adding markup to target output
14:26:05 <fsasaki> .. problem is processing
14:26:18 <fsasaki> .. you don't distinguish element from the text
14:27:28 <fsasaki> Richard: is it localization properties?
14:27:42 <fsasaki> Yves: no, all kinds of processing
14:28:03 <fsasaki> Felix: like writing a translateRule element, that would not match for escaped elements
14:28:18 <fsasaki> .. e.g. a code element
14:28:34 <fsasaki> Richard: you would need to put the code element into a namespace anyway?
14:28:57 <fsasaki> Felix: yes, but not escaping them via 
14:29:25 <fsasaki> .. e.g. &lt;myns:code&gt; ...
14:29:32 <fsasaki> Christian: what is escaping here?
14:29:41 <fsasaki> Richard: changing markup into content
14:30:32 <fsasaki> Yves: big problem is putting XML into XML. The "hosted" XML is text, not XML anymore
14:30:40 <fsasaki> .. that is the problem
14:30:59 <fsasaki> .. there is no real solution, except flaging the content like JavaScript
14:31:11 <fsasaki> .. by saying "this is not plain text, but 'escaped' HTML"
14:31:33 <fsasaki> Richard: we have to find an example that makes that clear
14:32:59 <fsasaki> Yves: I can try to make an explanation 
14:33:16 <fsasaki> Richard: you said it is the use, that makes this clearer
14:33:53 <fsasaki> action: Yves to make an explanation of the BP 24 issue
14:33:53 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-46 - Make an explanation of the BP 24 issue [on Yves Savourel - due 2007-12-12].
14:34:25 <fsasaki> Yves: how about other sections?
14:34:29 <fsasaki> Richard: still working on some
14:34:53 <fsasaki> Yves: we got feedback from Bartosz, are you happy with my replies and changes?
14:41:22 <fsasaki> action: Felix to look into having numbers for BPs in the table of contents, Richard to see if he has some code for that
14:41:22 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-47 - Look into having numbers for BPs in the table of contents, Richard to see if he has some code for that [on Felix Sasaki - due 2007-12-12].
14:43:14 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.html#xmlspec
14:44:25 <fsasaki> Felix: we need to update the XMLSPEC section to use the official XMLSPEC dtd (not the modified XMLSPEC i18n DTD)
14:44:44 <fsasaki> .. and we need to mention that we will update the XMLSPEC i18n DTD accordingly
14:45:00 <fsasaki> action: Felix to update XMLSPEC dtd
14:45:00 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-48 - Update XMLSPEC dtd [on Felix Sasaki - due 2007-12-12].
14:45:25 <fsasaki> Yves: we will need to go through sec. 4 later
14:45:47 <fsasaki> Richard: will not go through this section in detail
14:46:28 <fsasaki> topic: editorship for BP document
14:46:48 <fsasaki> everybody agrees that Richard should be co-editor of BP document!
14:46:56 <fsasaki> topic: AOB
14:51:10 <fsasaki> Yves: next meeting would be 9 a.m. in Central Europe time, fine with everybody?
14:51:34 <fsasaki> no disagreement
14:53:00 <fsasaki> action: Felix to change teleconf reservation
14:53:00 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-49 - Change teleconf reservation [on Felix Sasaki - due 2007-12-12].
14:53:51 <fsasaki> topic: ITS2Y
14:54:09 <fsasaki> Christian and Felix were and will follow up
14:54:16 <Zakim> -Christian
14:54:17 <Zakim> -Bartosz
14:54:19 <Zakim> -Felix
14:54:19 <Zakim> -Jirka
14:54:22 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
14:54:45 <fsasaki> present: Richard, Christian, Yves, Jirka, Bartosz, Felix
14:54:49 <Zakim> -Richard
14:54:49 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:54:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
14:54:50 <Zakim> I18N_TS()9:00AM has ended
14:54:51 <Zakim> Attendees were +420.4.824.0.aaaa, Jirka, Felix, Yves_Savourel, [SAP], Christian, Bartosz, Richard
14:55:15 <Jirka> Jirka has left #i18nits
14:55:34 <r12a>  i just uploaded a new version of its-techniques.html which seems to have captured the changes made in external files
14:59:22 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-actions.rdf :
14:59:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to make an explanation of the BP 24 issue [1]
14:59:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc#T14-33-53
14:59:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to look into having numbers for BPs in the table of contents, Richard to see if he has some code for that [2]
14:59:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc#T14-41-22
14:59:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to update XMLSPEC dtd [3]
14:59:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc#T14-45-00
14:59:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to change teleconf reservation [4]
14:59:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/05-i18nits-irc#T14-53-00
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