IRC log of grddl-wg on 2007-11-21
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:03:34 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg
- 16:03:34 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-grddl-wg-irc
- 16:03:39 [rreck]
- P22 is me
- 16:03:48 [HarryH]
- HarryH has joined #grddl-wg
- 16:03:48 [rreck]
- zakim +P22 is me
- 16:03:52 [rreck]
- zakim, +P22 is me
- 16:03:58 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 16:04:02 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, dbooth, rreck, john-l, FabienG, Simone, DanC, myakura, Zakim
- 16:04:12 [Zakim]
- sorry, rreck, I do not recognize a party named '+P22'
- 16:04:20 [DanC]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Nov/0006.html
- 16:04:22 [rreck]
- zakim, +?P22 is me
- 16:04:24 [Zakim]
- sorry, rreck, I do not recognize a party named '+?P22'
- 16:04:40 [rreck]
- zakim, ?P22 is me
- 16:04:40 [Zakim]
- sorry, rreck, I do not recognize a party named '?P22'
- 16:04:41 [DanC]
- Zakim, take up item 1
- 16:04:41 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-10-17T11:00-0400" taken up
- 16:04:48 [DanC]
- Zakim, clear agenda
- 16:04:48 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 16:04:56 [Zakim]
- +??P27
- 16:04:56 [rreck]
- thanks simone
- 16:04:58 [DanC]
- Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda.rdf
- 16:04:58 [Zakim]
- working on it, DanC
- 16:05:00 [Zakim]
- done reading agenda, DanC
- 16:05:03 [HarryH]
- Zakim, ??P27 is HarryH
- 16:05:03 [Zakim]
- +HarryH; got it
- 16:05:13 [DanC]
- agenda + Convene [2]GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-11-21T11:00-0400
- 16:05:20 [DanC]
- agenda + Atom (GRDDL Outreach)
- 16:05:26 [DanC]
- agenda + hReview
- 16:05:31 [DanC]
- agenda + OpenID
- 16:05:36 [DanC]
- agenda + hCard
- 16:05:42 [DanC]
- agenda + Other GRDDL Outreach opportunities
- 16:05:48 [DanC]
- agenda + W3C GRDDL Service
- 16:05:54 [DanC]
- agenda + GRDDL Wrap-Up
- 16:06:24 [DanC]
- agenda + URI-based extensibility panel, http://dm93.org/z2001/InternetRealEstate
- 16:06:26 [HarryH]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 16:06:28 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P14
- 16:07:05 [DanC]
- agenda + Free Culture: Why buy the Amazon Kindle when you can give and get an OLPC XO-1 for the same price? http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/214
- 16:07:07 [Simone]
- Zakim, ??P14 is me
- 16:07:07 [Zakim]
- +Simone; got it
- 16:07:10 [HarryH]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 16:07:10 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose FabienG
- 16:07:32 [DanC]
- Zakim, take up item 1
- 16:07:32 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Convene [2]GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-11-21T11:00-0400" taken up [from DanC]
- 16:08:03 [HarryH]
- chair: HarryH
- 16:08:05 [DanC]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Oct/att-0006/17-grddl-wg-minutes.html minutes 17 Oct
- 16:08:11 [HarryH]
- scribe: FabienG
- 16:08:22 [HarryH]
- PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG -- 17th Oct 2007 as a true record
- 16:08:28 [HarryH]
- See URI above
- 16:08:29 [dbooth]
- Meeting: GRDDL Working Group
- 16:08:58 [HarryH]
- APPROVED: GRDDL WG -- 17th Oct 2007 as a true record http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Oct/att-0006/17-grddl-wg-minutes.html minutes 17 Oct
- 16:09:21 [HarryH]
- Next Meeting? Dec 4th?
- 16:09:25 [Zakim]
- +Chimezie_Ogbuji
- 16:09:28 [FabienG]
- Harry: meeting in december ?
- 16:09:42 [rreck]
- i pinged danja in #swig but no answer
- 16:10:03 [DanC]
- we're chartered thru 2008-01-31
- 16:10:09 [FabienG]
- Chime: 4th is in the middle of XML 2007
- 16:10:20 [john-l]
- s/Chime/john-l/
- 16:10:50 [FabienG]
- Harry: January 16th?
- 16:10:55 [DanC]
- +1 16 Jan 2008 10am Chicago
- 16:11:02 [HarryH]
- Next Meeting: Jan 16th 2008
- 16:11:30 [Simone]
- +1
- 16:11:53 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 16:11:53 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Atom (GRDDL Outreach)" taken up [from DanC]
- 16:12:11 [DanC]
- (pointer to invitation, pls?)
- 16:12:18 [FabienG]
- Harry: we invited ATOM people to our next meeting
- 16:12:29 [FabienG]
- ... no response yet
- 16:12:58 [FabienG]
- ... if they accept may be we should have an ATOM only meeting
- 16:13:40 [HarryH]
- ACTION: HarryH and Danja to set-up meeting with Kanzaki and Henry Story over ATOM, possibly in Dec, alert list when meeting scheduled
- 16:14:35 [FabienG]
- Harry: the best XSLT is Kanzaki's available on the web
- 16:14:42 [HarryH]
- ACTION: danja and john-l to test and see if any XSLT is mature enough to add to ATOM namespace doc and has proper licensing (W3C Software license), as well as canvass all candidate XSLT authors for their opinion on ATOM/RSS 1.0 namespace.
- 16:14:46 [DanC]
- q+ to suggest a GRDDL/Atom XG
- 16:14:53 [HarryH]
- q+ DanC
- 16:15:16 [FabienG]
- DanC: need test material on w3.org
- 16:16:49 [FabienG]
- DBooth: I think it is worth to do
- 16:17:14 [FabienG]
- DanC: anybody to draft an XG charter ?
- 16:18:37 [HarryH]
- ACTION: HarryH with talk to Henry about considering an XG, if positive then writing up XG charter.
- 16:18:45 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 16:18:45 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, HarryH
- 16:18:49 [HarryH]
- q+_
- 16:18:53 [HarryH]
- q+
- 16:18:57 [HarryH]
- ack DanC
- 16:18:57 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to suggest a GRDDL/Atom XG and to
- 16:19:02 [HarryH]
- ack Harry
- 16:19:09 [HarryH]
- ack _
- 16:19:13 [DanC]
- queue=
- 16:19:14 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 16:19:15 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "hReview" taken up [from DanC]
- 16:19:28 [DanC]
- q+ to talk about "story telling and test cases" un-conference session...
- 16:19:50 [HarryH]
- http://danja.talis.com/xmlns/rev_2007-11-09/index.html
- 16:19:50 [FabienG]
- Harry: anyone to review the vocabulary
- 16:19:58 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/nov07
- 16:23:32 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2007/11/09-html-wg-minutes.html#item01
- 16:24:35 [rreck]
- pointer please
- 16:24:44 [DanC]
- http://del.icio.us/connolly/quality+xhtml
- 16:25:09 [DanC]
- http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support
- 16:26:05 [FabienG]
- DanC: looking at table http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support#standards
- 16:26:26 [FabienG]
- ... looks like our table generated from EARL http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results
- 16:27:21 [FabienG]
- ... the is to use blog items to produce EAR reports
- 16:27:35 [FabienG]
- Harry: what goes into the blog entry ?
- 16:28:14 [FabienG]
- Harry: who wants to review the vocabulary ?
- 16:29:32 [DanC]
- ACTION DanC: ask OT and Karl D to invite Danja to contribute his hReview experience to the "story telling and test cases" work
- 16:29:49 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 16:29:49 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, HarryH
- 16:29:55 [DanC]
- q?
- 16:30:02 [HarryH]
- ack DanC
- 16:30:02 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to talk about "story telling and test cases" un-conference session...
- 16:30:02 [DanC]
- ack danc
- 16:30:08 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 16:30:08 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "OpenID" taken up [from DanC]
- 16:30:30 [DanC]
- -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/206 brainstorming, issue tracking, and problem reporting... with tabulator?
- 16:30:55 [rreck]
- but the right date
- 16:31:28 [DanC]
- -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/206 FOAF and OpenID: two great tastes that taste great together
- 16:31:50 [rreck]
- Wed, 2007-10-24 23:00.
- 16:32:34 [rreck]
- nog
- 16:33:03 [FabienG]
- DanC: OpenID tells you about the access right but it doesn't tell you if he person is a spammer.
- 16:33:32 [DanC]
- Zakim, who's talking?
- 16:33:43 [Zakim]
- DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P22 (65%), DanC (66%)
- 16:34:00 [DanC]
- Zakim, mute ??P22 temporarily
- 16:34:00 [Zakim]
- ??P22 should now be muted
- 16:34:13 [DanC]
- Zakim, mute ??P22
- 16:34:13 [Zakim]
- ??P22 was already muted, DanC
- 16:34:15 [Zakim]
- ??P22 should now be unmuted again
- 16:34:19 [DanC]
- Zakim, mute ??P22
- 16:34:19 [Zakim]
- ??P22 should now be muted
- 16:39:05 [DanC]
- http://esw.w3.org/topic/FoafOpenid
- 16:39:15 [FabienG]
- dbooth: so what needs to be done ?
- 16:39:27 [DanC]
- <link rel="openid.server">
- 16:39:52 [DanC]
- (I'm particularly interested in using GRDDL to get FOAF data right from the OpenID page; stay tuned for more on that.)
- 16:40:17 [HarryH]
- Looking for GRDDL angle - do we GRDDL openID-enabled pages?
- 16:41:02 [FabienG]
- DanC example from OpenID Spec http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/id/talk19#(6)
- 16:42:39 [FabienG]
- ... GRRDL use in a web page http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/id/talk19#(7)
- 16:43:43 [HarryH]
- No interest?
- 16:43:47 [FabienG]
- ... anyone wants to do something on that?
- 16:44:16 [DanC]
- yes, PHB's work on accountability vs link spam is relevant
- 16:44:30 [rreck]
- we have covered alot of information for 30 minutes
- 16:44:31 [FabienG]
- ... anothe XG ? same XG as hReview?
- 16:45:31 [DanC]
- yes, robust uris (supplementary test materials, tutorial materials) for GRDDL profile for OpenId is a/the goal, ref http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/id/talk19#(7)
- 16:46:39 [HarryH]
- RDFish people in OpenID?
- 16:46:47 [dbooth]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:46:47 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see john-l, FabienG, DanC, DBooth, ??P22 (muted), Simone, HarryH, Chimezie_Ogbuji
- 16:46:49 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see HarryH, chimezie, RRSAgent, dbooth, rreck, john-l, FabienG, Simone, DanC, Zakim
- 16:47:29 [rreck]
- i must be the muted one!
- 16:48:17 [FabienG]
- dbooth: I can volonteer to see if HP is ok to backup this XG
- 16:48:54 [DanC]
- ACTION DanC: work with David B. on a few paragraphs of XG charter around OpenID GRDDL profile
- 16:49:09 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 16:49:09 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "hCard" taken up [from DanC]
- 16:49:59 [FabienG]
- Harry: advice on two problems
- 16:49:59 [HarryH]
- workTel, homeTel,
- 16:50:02 [HarryH]
- etc. etc.
- 16:50:11 [HarryH]
- This problem also work address, home address, etc. etc.
- 16:50:29 [HarryH]
- A single telephone property with subproperties for work and home
- 16:50:45 [DanC]
- (this is not a 10 minute discussion; this is a 6 month discussion; the answer belongs in test cases. I'm happy to review a test case if you put it in front of me. and then it's a question of whether the authors are willing to produce matching markup)
- 16:51:38 [HarryH]
- More fundamental problem: "x-types"
- 16:51:47 [HarryH]
- x-skype as a type of phone number.
- 16:52:30 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/NOTE-rdfcal-20050929/#Extension
- 16:56:15 [DanC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/NOTE-rdfcal-20050929/#Extension 10. Extension Tokens and Product Identifiers in RDF Calendar - an application of the Resource Description Framework to iCalendar Data
- 16:56:18 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 16:56:18 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "Other GRDDL Outreach opportunities" taken up [from DanC]
- 16:56:29 [dbooth]
- It certainly seems like an ontology design best practices issue.
- 16:56:31 [HarryH]
- DanBri told me that Joost uses RDFa
- 16:56:57 [DanC]
- (we didn't write an action re vCard; I think we should before we adjourn. I'm sorry I kept interrupting you, Harry)
- 16:57:15 [dbooth]
- Fabien: Yes, they are in sync. Every time there is a major change in the syntax, we change it.
- 16:57:18 [DanC]
- (RDFa has a supporting WG.)
- 16:57:34 [HarryH]
- (I'll just continue this...)
- 16:58:14 [HarryH]
- ACTION:HarryH To finish vCard mapping and publish as SWIG note, update profile URI with slightly tweaked GRDDL transform [CONTINUES]
- 16:58:16 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 16:58:16 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "W3C GRDDL Service" taken up [from DanC]
- 16:58:21 [DanC]
- s/To finish vCard mapping and publish as SWIG note/To publish vCard mapping as SWIG note with open issues/
- 16:59:10 [HarryH]
- ACTION: DanC to e-mail about HTML (OlivierT) and RDF and OWL Validator (EricP) linking to GRDDL [CONTINUES]
- 16:59:15 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 16:59:15 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 was just opened, HarryH
- 16:59:20 [chimezie]
- unfortunately, I have to drop off the phone (but will be monitoring IRC)
- 16:59:23 [Zakim]
- -Chimezie_Ogbuji
- 16:59:23 [HarryH]
- Zakim, close this item
- 16:59:24 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 closed
- 16:59:25 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:59:26 [Zakim]
- 8. GRDDL Wrap-Up [from DanC]
- 16:59:30 [HarryH]
- Zakim, open item 8
- 16:59:30 [Zakim]
- agendum 8. "GRDDL Wrap-Up" taken up [from DanC]
- 16:59:36 [DanC]
- q+ to recruit reviewers for XProc
- 17:00:06 [HarryH]
- ack DanC
- 17:00:06 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to recruit reviewers for XProc
- 17:00:33 [FabienG]
- q+ to talk about GRDDL for SAWSDL http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Nov/0007.html
- 17:01:16 [FabienG]
- DanC: can someone read the minutes of their meeting ?
- 17:01:31 [DanC]
- (shall we look for records now?)
- 17:02:20 [FabienG]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Sep/0044.html
- 17:02:30 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xproc-20070920/
- 17:02:47 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/XML/Processing/
- 17:03:31 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2007/11/TPAC/Schedule.html
- 17:04:14 [DanC]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Nov/0064.html XProc Minutes 15 Nov 2007
- 17:04:29 [DanC]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Nov/0031.html XProc Minutes for Technical Plenary f2f, 8/9 Nov 2007
- 17:05:03 [FabienG]
- OK
- 17:05:34 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/
- 17:05:45 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/open
- 17:06:00 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/34 ISSUE-34
- 17:06:00 [DanC]
- xmlFunctions-34
- 17:06:00 [DanC]
- XML Transformation and composability (e.g., XSLT, XInclude, Encryption)
- 17:08:42 [HarryH]
- ack FabienG
- 17:08:42 [Zakim]
- FabienG, you wanted to talk about GRDDL for SAWSDL http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Nov/0007.html
- 17:09:23 [DanC]
- yay for alpha release.
- 17:09:48 [dbooth]
- Fabien: During the outreach session, there was an item on SAWSDL GRDDL transform. It's buggy, alpha release. Got feedback from Jacek and will update.
- 17:10:21 [HarryH]
- Fabien will maintain it until a final version is reached...
- 17:10:25 [dbooth]
- Fabien: I'll maintain it as long as it is not valid. Whoever wants to host it can.
- 17:10:44 [DanC]
- s/it is not valid/the w3c process hasn't resolved/
- 17:11:04 [HarryH]
- SAWSDL's charter is up.
- 17:12:40 [FabienG]
- Jacek spotted a number of bugs http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Nov/0008.html
- 17:12:47 [dbooth]
- DBooth: Can it be put at the end of the SAWSDL namespace URL?
- 17:12:50 [FabienG]
- we are working on it
- 17:12:56 [DanC]
- (I wonder if I should agenda + XBRL)
- 17:13:04 [DanC]
- (re noteable GRDDL opportunities)
- 17:13:09 [dbooth]
- DanC: Not necessarily. Gotta get a w3c person to do it.
- 17:13:44 [DanC]
- agenda + XBRL
- 17:13:49 [DanC]
- Zakim, take up item 11
- 17:13:49 [Zakim]
- agendum 11. "XBRL" taken up [from DanC]
- 17:14:12 [DanC]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Sep/0235.html SEC interactive data
- 17:15:41 [FabienG]
- DanC: XML format for the companies giving their report to the SEC
- 17:16:04 [FabienG]
- ... would be nice to have them in RDF too.
- 17:17:25 [rreck]
- thanks for tying that up harry
- 17:17:43 [FabienG]
- Harry: the idea is to have a GRDDL profile for XBRL?
- 17:21:22 [HarryH]
- Zakim, next item
- 17:21:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 8. "GRDDL Wrap-Up" taken up [from DanC]
- 17:21:26 [HarryH]
- Zakim, open item 9
- 17:21:26 [Zakim]
- agendum 9. "URI-based extensibility panel, http://dm93.org/z2001/InternetRealEstate" taken up [from DanC]
- 17:22:40 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2007/11/tp_session2.html
- 17:22:40 [DanC]
- http://media.w3.org/2007/11/w3c_tpac_session2.oga
- 17:23:02 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2007/11/07-TechPlenAgenda.html
- 17:23:18 [DanC]
- Session 6: URI-Based Extensibility: Benefits, Deviations, Lessons-Learned
- 17:23:31 [DanC]
- "it's incomplete. I'm missing sessions 4, 5, and 6."
- 17:23:52 [DanC]
- http://media.w3.org/2007/11/w3c_tpac_session6.oga
- 17:25:09 [dbooth]
- DanC: Ian Hixon says he's done a study of hte web, billions of docs, they've measured the web and there are 15,000 that use profile, and of those 10,000 are dublin core So to first order it's 0% of the web. That was his argument.
- 17:26:04 [dbooth]
- ... Then I say "if you look at the worldwide real estate market, my back yard is insignificant, so you can just delete it. the government can just take it. No. Every domain is negotiated. We need to do URI extansibility the same way.
- 17:27:00 [dbooth]
- ... I think I convinced Ian Hixon.
- 17:27:35 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/QA/2007/11/a_story_about_namespaces_mime.html
- 17:27:41 [dbooth]
- ... He's also convinced about URIs and tried to do the right things, but the browsers and authors didn't, and the usability is too low. He wanted to know how to make it usable, and I've strarted to write that story.
- 17:27:43 [DanC]
- ^ in re hixie's question about usable namespaces
- 17:28:14 [dbooth]
- DanC: I want to hack up the implicit namespaces idea.
- 17:28:53 [DanC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/11 ACTION-11
- 17:28:53 [DanC]
- Show how <div aria="something"> works with URI based extensibility
- 17:29:49 [DanC]
- adjourn?
- 17:29:52 [DanC]
- agenda?
- 17:30:06 [HarryH]
- Meeting Adjourned.
- 17:30:18 [rreck]
- thanks dan
- 17:30:25 [Zakim]
- -john-l
- 17:30:31 [Zakim]
- -HarryH
- 17:30:37 [FabienG]
- rrsagent, set logs world-visible
- 17:30:45 [Zakim]
- -??P22
- 17:31:03 [FabienG]
- rrsagent, create minutes
- 17:31:03 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html FabienG
- 17:31:47 [Zakim]
- -FabienG
- 17:31:59 [Zakim]
- -DBooth
- 17:32:04 [Zakim]
- -Simone
- 17:32:14 [dbooth]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 17:32:24 [dbooth]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 17:32:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html dbooth
- 17:32:25 [Zakim]
- -DanC
- 17:32:26 [Zakim]
- SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended
- 17:32:28 [Zakim]
- Attendees were john-l, FabienG, [ArborText], DanC, DBooth, HarryH, Simone, Chimezie_Ogbuji
- 18:04:47 [Simone]
- Simone has joined #grddl-wg
- 19:06:31 [john-l]
- john-l has left #grddl-wg
- 19:31:58 [FabienG]
- FabienG has left #grddl-wg
- 20:05:37 [Simone]
- Simone has joined #grddl-wg
- 22:21:24 [Simone]
- Simone has joined #grddl-wg