16:03:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg
16:03:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-grddl-wg-irc
16:03:35 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #grddl-wg
16:03:39 <rreck> P22 is me
16:03:48 <HarryH> HarryH has joined #grddl-wg
16:03:48 <rreck> zakim +P22 is me
16:03:52 <rreck> zakim, +P22 is me
16:03:58 <Zakim> +??P14
16:04:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, dbooth, rreck, john-l, FabienG, Simone, DanC, myakura, Zakim
16:04:12 <Zakim> sorry, rreck, I do not recognize a party named '+P22'
16:04:20 <DanC> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Nov/0006.html
16:04:22 <rreck> zakim, +?P22 is me
16:04:24 <Zakim> sorry, rreck, I do not recognize a party named '+?P22'
16:04:40 <rreck> zakim, ?P22 is me
16:04:40 <Zakim> sorry, rreck, I do not recognize a party named '?P22'
16:04:41 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
16:04:41 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-10-17T11:00-0400" taken up
16:04:48 <DanC> Zakim, clear agenda
16:04:48 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:04:56 <Zakim> +??P27
16:04:56 <rreck> thanks simone
16:04:58 <DanC> Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda.rdf
16:04:58 <Zakim> working on it, DanC
16:05:00 <Zakim> done reading agenda, DanC
16:05:03 <HarryH> Zakim, ??P27 is HarryH
16:05:03 <Zakim> +HarryH; got it
16:05:13 <DanC> agenda + Convene [2]GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-11-21T11:00-0400
16:05:20 <DanC> agenda + Atom (GRDDL Outreach)
16:05:26 <DanC> agenda + hReview
16:05:31 <DanC> agenda + OpenID
16:05:36 <DanC> agenda + hCard
16:05:42 <DanC> agenda + Other GRDDL Outreach opportunities
16:05:48 <DanC> agenda + W3C GRDDL Service
16:05:54 <DanC> agenda + GRDDL Wrap-Up
16:06:24 <DanC> agenda + URI-based extensibility panel, http://dm93.org/z2001/InternetRealEstate
16:06:26 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:06:28 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P14
16:07:05 <DanC> agenda + Free Culture: Why buy the Amazon Kindle when you can give and get an OLPC XO-1 for the same price? http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/214
16:07:07 <Simone> Zakim, ??P14 is me
16:07:07 <Zakim> +Simone; got it
16:07:10 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:10 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose FabienG
16:07:32 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
16:07:32 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene [2]GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-11-21T11:00-0400" taken up [from DanC]
16:08:03 <HarryH> chair: HarryH
16:08:05 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Oct/att-0006/17-grddl-wg-minutes.html minutes 17 Oct
16:08:11 <HarryH> scribe: FabienG
16:08:22 <HarryH> PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG -- 17th Oct 2007 as a true record
16:08:28 <HarryH> See URI above
16:08:29 <dbooth> Meeting: GRDDL Working Group
16:08:58 <HarryH> APPROVED:  GRDDL WG -- 17th Oct 2007 as a true record http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Oct/att-0006/17-grddl-wg-minutes.html minutes 17 Oct
16:09:21 <HarryH> Next Meeting? Dec 4th?
16:09:25 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:09:28 <FabienG> Harry: meeting in december ?
16:09:42 <rreck> i pinged danja in #swig but no answer
16:10:03 <DanC> we're chartered thru 2008-01-31
16:10:09 <FabienG> Chime: 4th is in the middle of XML 2007
16:10:20 <john-l> s/Chime/john-l/
16:10:50 <FabienG> Harry: January 16th?
16:10:55 <DanC> +1 16 Jan 2008 10am Chicago
16:11:02 <HarryH> Next Meeting: Jan 16th 2008
16:11:30 <Simone> +1
16:11:53 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:11:53 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Atom (GRDDL Outreach)" taken up [from DanC]
16:12:11 <DanC> (pointer to invitation, pls?)
16:12:18 <FabienG> Harry: we invited ATOM people to our next meeting
16:12:29 <FabienG> ... no response yet
16:12:58 <FabienG> ... if they accept may be we should have an ATOM only meeting
16:13:40 <HarryH> ACTION: HarryH and Danja to set-up meeting with Kanzaki and Henry Story over ATOM, possibly in Dec, alert list when meeting scheduled  
16:14:35 <FabienG> Harry: the best XSLT is Kanzaki's available on the web
16:14:42 <HarryH> ACTION: danja and john-l to test and see if any XSLT is mature enough to add to ATOM namespace doc and has proper licensing (W3C Software license), as well as canvass all candidate XSLT authors for their opinion on ATOM/RSS 1.0 namespace.
16:14:46 <DanC> q+ to suggest a GRDDL/Atom XG
16:14:53 <HarryH> q+ DanC
16:15:16 <FabienG> DanC: need test material on w3.org
16:16:49 <FabienG> DBooth: I think it is worth to do
16:17:14 <FabienG> DanC: anybody to draft an XG charter ?
16:18:37 <HarryH> ACTION: HarryH with talk to Henry about considering an XG, if positive then writing up XG charter.
16:18:45 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:18:45 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, HarryH
16:18:49 <HarryH> q+_
16:18:53 <HarryH> q+
16:18:57 <HarryH> ack DanC
16:18:57 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to suggest a GRDDL/Atom XG and to 
16:19:02 <HarryH> ack Harry
16:19:09 <HarryH> ack _
16:19:13 <DanC> queue=
16:19:14 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:19:15 <Zakim> agendum 3. "hReview" taken up [from DanC]
16:19:28 <DanC> q+ to talk about "story telling and test cases" un-conference session...
16:19:50 <HarryH> http://danja.talis.com/xmlns/rev_2007-11-09/index.html
16:19:50 <FabienG> Harry: anyone to review the vocabulary
16:19:58 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/nov07
16:23:32 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/09-html-wg-minutes.html#item01
16:24:35 <rreck> pointer please
16:24:44 <DanC> http://del.icio.us/connolly/quality+xhtml
16:25:09 <DanC> http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support
16:26:05 <FabienG> DanC: looking at table http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support#standards
16:26:26 <FabienG> ... looks like our table generated from EARL http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results
16:27:21 <FabienG> ... the is to use blog items to produce EAR reports
16:27:35 <FabienG> Harry: what goes into the blog entry ?
16:28:14 <FabienG> Harry: who wants to review the vocabulary ?
16:29:32 <DanC> ACTION DanC: ask OT and Karl D to invite Danja to contribute his hReview experience to the "story telling and test cases" work
16:29:49 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:29:49 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, HarryH
16:29:55 <DanC> q?
16:30:02 <HarryH> ack DanC
16:30:02 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to talk about "story telling and test cases" un-conference session...
16:30:02 <DanC> ack danc
16:30:08 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:30:08 <Zakim> agendum 4. "OpenID" taken up [from DanC]
16:30:30 <DanC> -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/206 brainstorming, issue tracking, and problem reporting... with tabulator?
16:30:55 <rreck> but the right date
16:31:28 <DanC> -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/206 FOAF and OpenID: two great tastes that taste great together
16:31:50 <rreck> Wed, 2007-10-24 23:00. 
16:32:34 <rreck> nog
16:33:03 <FabienG> DanC: OpenID tells you about the access right but it doesn't tell you if he person is a spammer.
16:33:32 <DanC> Zakim, who's talking?
16:33:43 <Zakim> DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P22 (65%), DanC (66%)
16:34:00 <DanC> Zakim, mute ??P22 temporarily
16:34:00 <Zakim> ??P22 should now be muted
16:34:13 <DanC> Zakim, mute ??P22
16:34:13 <Zakim> ??P22 was already muted, DanC
16:34:15 <Zakim> ??P22 should now be unmuted again
16:34:19 <DanC> Zakim, mute ??P22
16:34:19 <Zakim> ??P22 should now be muted
16:39:05 <DanC> http://esw.w3.org/topic/FoafOpenid
16:39:15 <FabienG> dbooth: so what needs to be done ?
16:39:27 <DanC> <link rel="openid.server">
16:39:52 <DanC> (I'm particularly interested in using GRDDL to get FOAF data right from the OpenID page; stay tuned for more on that.)
16:40:17 <HarryH> Looking for GRDDL angle - do we GRDDL openID-enabled pages?
16:41:02 <FabienG> DanC example from OpenID Spec http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/id/talk19#(6)
16:42:39 <FabienG> ... GRRDL use in a web page http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/id/talk19#(7)
16:43:43 <HarryH> No interest?
16:43:47 <FabienG> ... anyone wants to do something on that?
16:44:16 <DanC> yes, PHB's work on accountability vs link spam is relevant
16:44:30 <rreck> we have covered alot of information for 30 minutes
16:44:31 <FabienG> ... anothe XG ? same XG as hReview?
16:45:31 <DanC> yes, robust uris (supplementary test materials, tutorial materials) for GRDDL profile for OpenId is a/the goal, ref http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/id/talk19#(7)
16:46:39 <HarryH> RDFish people in OpenID?
16:46:47 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
16:46:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see john-l, FabienG, DanC, DBooth, ??P22 (muted), Simone, HarryH, Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:46:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see HarryH, chimezie, RRSAgent, dbooth, rreck, john-l, FabienG, Simone, DanC, Zakim
16:47:29 <rreck> i must be the muted one!
16:48:17 <FabienG> dbooth: I can volonteer to see if HP is ok to backup this XG
16:48:54 <DanC> ACTION DanC: work with David B. on a few paragraphs of XG charter around OpenID GRDDL profile
16:49:09 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:49:09 <Zakim> agendum 5. "hCard" taken up [from DanC]
16:49:59 <FabienG> Harry: advice on two problems
16:49:59 <HarryH> workTel, homeTel,
16:50:02 <HarryH> etc. etc.
16:50:11 <HarryH> This problem also work address, home address, etc. etc.
16:50:29 <HarryH> A single telephone property with subproperties for work and home
16:50:45 <DanC> (this is not a 10 minute discussion; this is a 6 month discussion; the answer belongs in test cases. I'm happy to review a test case if you put it in front of me. and then it's a question of whether the authors are willing to produce matching markup)
16:51:38 <HarryH> More fundamental problem: "x-types"
16:51:47 <HarryH> x-skype as a type of phone number.
16:52:30 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/NOTE-rdfcal-20050929/#Extension
16:56:15 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/NOTE-rdfcal-20050929/#Extension 10. Extension Tokens and Product Identifiers in RDF Calendar - an application of the Resource Description Framework to iCalendar Data
16:56:18 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:56:18 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Other GRDDL Outreach opportunities" taken up [from DanC]
16:56:29 <dbooth> It certainly seems like an ontology design best practices issue.
16:56:31 <HarryH> DanBri told me that Joost uses RDFa
16:56:57 <DanC> (we didn't write an action re vCard; I think we should before we adjourn. I'm sorry I kept interrupting you, Harry)
16:57:15 <dbooth> Fabien: Yes, they are in sync.  Every time there is a major change in the syntax, we change it.
16:57:18 <DanC> (RDFa has a supporting WG.)
16:57:34 <HarryH> (I'll just continue this...)
16:58:14 <HarryH> ACTION:HarryH To finish vCard mapping and publish as SWIG note, update profile URI with slightly tweaked GRDDL transform [CONTINUES]
16:58:16 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:58:16 <Zakim> agendum 7. "W3C GRDDL Service" taken up [from DanC]
16:58:21 <DanC> s/To finish vCard mapping and publish as SWIG note/To publish vCard mapping as SWIG note with open issues/
16:59:10 <HarryH> ACTION: DanC to e-mail about HTML (OlivierT) and RDF and OWL Validator (EricP) linking to GRDDL [CONTINUES]
16:59:15 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:59:15 <Zakim> agendum 7 was just opened, HarryH
16:59:20 <chimezie> unfortunately, I have to drop off the phone (but will be monitoring IRC)
16:59:23 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:59:23 <HarryH> Zakim, close this item
16:59:24 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
16:59:25 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:59:26 <Zakim> 8. GRDDL Wrap-Up [from DanC]
16:59:30 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 8
16:59:30 <Zakim> agendum 8. "GRDDL Wrap-Up" taken up [from DanC]
16:59:36 <DanC> q+ to recruit reviewers for XProc
17:00:06 <HarryH> ack DanC
17:00:06 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to recruit reviewers for XProc
17:00:33 <FabienG> q+ to talk about GRDDL for SAWSDL http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Nov/0007.html
17:01:16 <FabienG> DanC: can someone read the minutes of their meeting ?
17:01:31 <DanC> (shall we look for records now?)
17:02:20 <FabienG> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Sep/0044.html
17:02:30 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xproc-20070920/
17:02:47 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/XML/Processing/
17:03:31 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/TPAC/Schedule.html
17:04:14 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Nov/0064.html XProc Minutes 15 Nov 2007
17:04:29 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Nov/0031.html XProc Minutes for Technical Plenary f2f, 8/9 Nov 2007
17:05:03 <FabienG> OK
17:05:34 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/
17:05:45 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/open
17:06:00 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/34 ISSUE-34
17:06:00 <DanC> xmlFunctions-34
17:06:00 <DanC> XML Transformation and composability (e.g., XSLT, XInclude, Encryption)
17:08:42 <HarryH> ack FabienG
17:08:42 <Zakim> FabienG, you wanted to talk about GRDDL for SAWSDL http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Nov/0007.html
17:09:23 <DanC> yay for alpha release.
17:09:48 <dbooth> Fabien: During the outreach session, there was an item on SAWSDL GRDDL transform.  It's buggy, alpha release.  Got feedback from Jacek and will update.
17:10:21 <HarryH> Fabien will maintain it until a final version is reached...
17:10:25 <dbooth> Fabien: I'll maintain it as long as it is not valid.  Whoever wants to host it can.
17:10:44 <DanC> s/it is not valid/the w3c process hasn't resolved/
17:11:04 <HarryH> SAWSDL's charter is up.
17:12:40 <FabienG> Jacek spotted a number of bugs http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Nov/0008.html
17:12:47 <dbooth> DBooth: Can it be put at the end of the SAWSDL namespace URL?
17:12:50 <FabienG> we are working on it
17:12:56 <DanC> (I wonder if I should agenda + XBRL)
17:13:04 <DanC> (re noteable GRDDL opportunities)
17:13:09 <dbooth> DanC: Not necessarily.  Gotta get a w3c person to do it.
17:13:44 <DanC> agenda + XBRL
17:13:49 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 11
17:13:49 <Zakim> agendum 11. "XBRL" taken up [from DanC]
17:14:12 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Sep/0235.html SEC interactive data
17:15:41 <FabienG> DanC: XML format for the companies giving their report to the SEC
17:16:04 <FabienG> ... would be nice to have them in RDF too.
17:17:25 <rreck> thanks for tying that up harry
17:17:43 <FabienG> Harry: the idea is to have a GRDDL profile for XBRL?
17:21:22 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
17:21:22 <Zakim> agendum 8. "GRDDL Wrap-Up" taken up [from DanC]
17:21:26 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 9
17:21:26 <Zakim> agendum 9. "URI-based extensibility panel, http://dm93.org/z2001/InternetRealEstate" taken up [from DanC]
17:22:40 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/tp_session2.html
17:22:40 <DanC> http://media.w3.org/2007/11/w3c_tpac_session2.oga
17:23:02 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/07-TechPlenAgenda.html
17:23:18 <DanC> Session 6: URI-Based Extensibility: Benefits, Deviations, Lessons-Learned 
17:23:31 <DanC> "it's incomplete. I'm missing sessions 4, 5, and 6."
17:23:52 <DanC> http://media.w3.org/2007/11/w3c_tpac_session6.oga
17:25:09 <dbooth> DanC: Ian Hixon says he's done a study of hte web, billions of docs, they've measured the web and there are 15,000 that use profile, and of those 10,000 are dublin core  So to first order it's 0% of the web.  That was his argument.
17:26:04 <dbooth> ... Then I say "if you look at the worldwide real estate market, my back yard is insignificant, so you can just delete it.  the government can just take it.  No.  Every domain is negotiated.  We need to do URI extansibility the same way.
17:27:00 <dbooth> ... I think I convinced Ian Hixon.
17:27:35 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/QA/2007/11/a_story_about_namespaces_mime.html
17:27:41 <dbooth> ... He's also convinced about URIs and tried to do the right things, but the browsers and authors didn't, and the usability is too low.  He wanted to know how to make it usable, and I've strarted to write that story.
17:27:43 <DanC> ^ in re hixie's question about usable namespaces
17:28:14 <dbooth> DanC: I want to hack up the implicit namespaces idea.
17:28:53 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/11 ACTION-11
17:28:53 <DanC> Show how <div aria="something"> works with URI based extensibility
17:29:49 <DanC> adjourn?
17:29:52 <DanC> agenda?
17:30:06 <HarryH> Meeting Adjourned.
17:30:18 <rreck> thanks dan 
17:30:25 <Zakim> -john-l
17:30:31 <Zakim> -HarryH
17:30:37 <FabienG> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
17:30:45 <Zakim> -??P22
17:31:03 <FabienG> rrsagent, create minutes
17:31:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html FabienG
17:31:47 <Zakim> -FabienG
17:31:59 <Zakim> -DBooth
17:32:04 <Zakim> -Simone
17:32:14 <dbooth> rrsagent, make logs public
17:32:24 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:32:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html dbooth
17:32:25 <Zakim> -DanC
17:32:26 <Zakim> SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended
17:32:28 <Zakim> Attendees were john-l, FabienG, [ArborText], DanC, DBooth, HarryH, Simone, Chimezie_Ogbuji
18:04:47 <Simone> Simone has joined #grddl-wg
19:06:31 <john-l> john-l has left #grddl-wg
19:31:58 <FabienG> FabienG has left #grddl-wg
20:05:37 <Simone> Simone has joined #grddl-wg
22:21:24 <Simone> Simone has joined #grddl-wg