IRC log of sml on 2007-11-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:56:05 [RRSAgent]
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18:56:05 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-sml-irc
18:56:14 [Zakim]
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18:57:25 [ginny]
Meeting: W3C SML Teleconference of 2007-11-08
18:57:31 [pratul]
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18:58:16 [pratul]
Agenda is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2007Nov/0081.html
18:59:20 [Zakim]
XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has now started
18:59:26 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
18:59:29 [Zakim]
+Ginny
18:59:39 [pratul]
Zakim, Microsoft is me
18:59:39 [Zakim]
+pratul; got it
19:00:55 [Zakim]
+Sandy
19:07:09 [ginny]
zakim, who is here?
19:07:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pratul, Ginny, Sandy
19:07:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pratul, Zakim, RRSAgent, J, ginny, Sandy, MSM, trackbot-ng
19:08:01 [ginny]
Regrets: Kirk, Valentina
19:08:17 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
19:08:56 [Kumar]
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19:09:20 [ginny]
Regrets: Kirk, Valentina, John
19:09:38 [ginny]
zakim, Microsoft is Kumar
19:09:38 [Zakim]
+Kumar; got it
19:10:59 [ginny]
Regrets: Michael
19:12:51 [ginny]
scribe: Ginny
19:16:53 [ginny]
Topic: schedule Monday meeting with w3c
19:17:10 [ginny]
Resolution: Pratul will send email request
19:18:32 [ginny]
Topic: Approval of minutes 10/15 and 11/1
19:18:40 [ginny]
Resolution: approved by attending members
19:19:29 [ginny]
Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5040
19:19:37 [Zakim]
+Jim
19:21:12 [ginny]
Note: no quorum present; decision is to discuss issues today and bring issues up to rest of group when a quorum present
19:27:35 [ginny]
Kumar: wants to have confidence that a valid model is really valid.
19:28:03 [ginny]
Sandy: we have only 2 states - valid and invalid
19:28:35 [ginny]
Sandy: if we separate concerns we can cover all use cases
19:29:04 [ginny]
... targetRequired controls whether a ref resolves not targetType
19:38:57 [ginny]
Kumar: make this dependent on the whether we decide on an "unknown" state
19:39:33 [ginny]
Sandy: model validator could state that it cannot perform e.g. network down.
19:40:03 [ginny]
... this affect more than just this bug
19:40:18 [ginny]
s/affect/affects/
19:41:09 [ginny]
Kumar: if validator cannot reach the target and the target is actually not the correct type; use will not know
19:41:18 [ginny]
s/use/user/
19:42:00 [ginny]
Sandy: memory bad or no network is not an issue on this bug only; this is an issue for the validator as a whole
19:43:17 [ginny]
Kumar: if this kind of an error we cannot say if the model if valid or not.
19:44:13 [ginny]
... then this "unknown" does not apply to a reference but to the model as a whole
19:45:39 [ginny]
Kumar: rephrasing: When you are trying to resolve a scheme and it cannot be resolved due to an error such as network, etc., the entire model is declared to be unknown.
19:46:11 [ginny]
... then ok with targetType/Element in this bug be specified as "satisfied"
19:49:57 [ginny]
Resolution: When you are trying to resolve a scheme and it cannot be resolved due to an error such as network, etc., the entire model is declared to be unknown. Then for an unresolved reference, targetType/Element is declared "satisfied".
19:50:23 [ginny]
s/unknown/in an unknown state/
19:54:26 [ginny]
Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5063
19:55:55 [ginny]
Sandy: no inheritance for particle restrictions so argument is not the same as Bug 4643
19:56:26 [ginny]
... need to specify how inheritance happens
19:57:50 [ginny]
Pratul: original spec wanted constraints to be inherited
19:59:00 [ginny]
... why do we need to look at schema 1.1?
20:01:22 [ginny]
Sandy: describes the inheritance problem...
20:05:21 [ginny]
Action: Sandy to add an example of the problem to the bug
20:05:21 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-149 - Add an example of the problem to the bug [on Sandy Gao - due 2007-11-15].
20:06:24 [ginny]
Sandy: preference is that we don't inherit
20:07:56 [ginny]
Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5119
20:09:40 [ginny]
Resolution: mark as editorial; editors to ensure that all issues in this bug have been addressed.
20:13:14 [ginny]
Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5120
20:13:15 [ginny]
Sandy: working on a proposal covering inter-document references that will cover this bug as well as others
20:13:49 [ginny]
Resolution: Review this bug after reviewing Sandy's proposal.
20:15:18 [ginny]
Marking this bug as needsAgreement.
20:17:01 [ginny]
Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5171 and http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5201
20:17:03 [ginny]
Resolution: mark as needsAgreement and wait for Sandy's proposal
20:18:02 [ginny]
Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5181
20:26:13 [ginny]
Kumar: proposes to replace schemaLocation uri's with alias to document
20:27:14 [ginny]
Sandy: but base uri also applies to sml:uri elements and possible other new schemes.
20:28:08 [ginny]
Kumar: if xml:base brings other semantics with it, one possibility is to back to baseURI
20:29:09 [ginny]
Sandy: having a single baseURI is not sufficient; several documents may need different baseURIs
20:30:27 [ginny]
Sandy: candidates that need a base include schemaLocations and sml:uri but should also cover additional extensions like new schemes
20:31:06 [ginny]
Sandy: normally expect that relative URI is resolved based on containing document
20:32:03 [ginny]
... so alias must retain information on directory structure that is lost when packaged into an SML-IF document
20:33:25 [ginny]
... each document has its own baseURI
20:38:42 [ginny]
Kumar: sml-if doc baseURI applies to every embedded document?
20:40:53 [ginny]
Kumar: each document has its own baseURI, a schemaLocation, and sml reference. SchemaLocation is written with baseURI in mind but sml:uri may not be.
20:41:35 [ginny]
Sandy: can always add other aliases
20:42:22 [ginny]
Kumar: are aliases absolute?
20:42:24 [ginny]
Sandy: yes, they need to be
20:42:52 [ginny]
Pratul: every relative URI is based on baseURI
20:43:50 [ginny]
Kumar: uncomfortable with each document having its own baseURI
20:44:17 [ginny]
... if 10 incoming references and each with its own baseURI, will need 10 aliases for the document.
20:45:19 [ginny]
Sandy: don't need different URIs
20:46:10 [Sandy]
A: file://dir/a.xml B: file://dir/b.xml in A, there is a reference "../b.xml#xyz".
20:47:26 [ginny]
Kumar: 2 docs with different baseURIs. A has ref to E in B. A's ref is relative to A. To reach B, take baseURI of A plus relative ref to reach document B. So B will need an alias to match.
20:47:58 [Sandy]
B: file://dir2/b.xml
20:48:08 [Sandy]
reference: "../dir2/b.xml#xyz"
20:51:42 [ginny]
Sandy: in most cases, baseURI and alias will be the same
20:53:56 [ginny]
Pratul: could go back to one baseURI or change all uris to be absolute
20:54:52 [ginny]
Chair: Pratul
20:54:54 [Zakim]
-pratul
20:57:47 [jLynn]
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21:01:29 [ginny]
Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4811
21:02:10 [ginny]
Ginny: suggest that we limit a "conforming validator" to the #ALL phase; this does not mean a validator does not support other phases.
21:06:54 [ginny]
Resolution: Ginny will add another bullet point to address Sandy's concern about the #ALL phase
21:08:32 [Zakim]
-Sandy
21:08:52 [ginny]
zakim, generate minutes
21:08:52 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'generate minutes', ginny
21:09:09 [Zakim]
-Kumar
21:09:11 [ginny]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:09:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-sml-minutes.html ginny
21:09:17 [Zakim]
-Ginny
21:09:38 [ginny]
rrsagent, make minutes public
21:09:38 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', ginny. Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:09:44 [Zakim]
-Jim
21:09:45 [Zakim]
XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has ended
21:09:47 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ginny, pratul, Sandy, Kumar, Jim
21:10:34 [ginny]
zakim, bye
21:10:34 [Zakim]
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21:11:12 [ginny]
rrsagent, bye
21:12:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-sml-minutes.html Sandy
21:12:10 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-sml-actions.rdf :
21:12:10 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sandy to add an example of the problem to the bug [1]
21:12:10 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/08-sml-irc#T20-05-21