IRC log of rif on 2007-09-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:53:37 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rif
- 14:53:37 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-rif-irc
- 14:53:49 [ChrisW]
- zakim, this will be rif
- 14:53:49 [Zakim]
- ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
- 14:53:59 [ChrisW]
- zakim, this will be rif
- 14:53:59 [Zakim]
- ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
- 14:53:59 [ChrisW]
- Meeting: RIF Telecon
- 14:54:06 [ChrisW]
- zakim, this will be rif
- 14:54:06 [Zakim]
- ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
- 14:54:06 [ChrisW]
- Meeting: RIF Telecon
- 14:54:17 [ChrisW]
- Meeting: RIF Telecon 18 Sept 2007
- 14:54:27 [ChrisW]
- Chair: Chris Welty
- 14:54:44 [ChrisW]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Sep/0093.html
- 14:54:55 [ChrisW]
- Scribe: Adrian Giurca
- 14:55:28 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:55:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
- 14:55:36 [ChrisW]
- zakim, clear agenda
- 14:55:36 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 14:55:46 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ Admin
- 14:55:52 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ Liason
- 14:55:56 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ F2F
- 14:56:07 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ BLD - RDF
- 14:56:19 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ Arch - XML Syntax
- 14:56:26 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ AOB
- 14:56:35 [ChrisW]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 14:56:35 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 14:56:43 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 14:58:20 [patranja]
- patranja has joined #rif
- 14:59:50 [DaveReynolds]
- DaveReynolds has joined #rif
- 15:00:13 [Hassan]
- Hassan has joined #rif
- 15:00:16 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
- 15:00:17 [Zakim]
- +Dave_Reynolds (was Guest P16 74394)
- 15:00:22 [Zakim]
- +Dave_Reynolds
- 15:00:47 [Zakim]
- +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
- 15:00:56 [AxelPolleres]
- AxelPolleres has joined #rif
- 15:01:12 [Harold]
- Harold has joined #rif
- 15:01:15 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 15:01:16 [ChrisW]
- zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
- 15:01:16 [Zakim]
- +ChrisW; got it
- 15:01:26 [StellaMitchell]
- StellaMitchell has joined #rif
- 15:01:29 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:01:33 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW
- 15:02:12 [Zakim]
- +[NRCC]
- 15:02:30 [Zakim]
- +??P38
- 15:02:44 [josb]
- josb has joined #rif
- 15:02:45 [Harold]
- zakim, [NRCC] is me
- 15:02:45 [AxelPolleres]
- Zakim, ??P38 is me
- 15:02:50 [Zakim]
- +Harold; got it
- 15:02:52 [Zakim]
- +AxelPolleres; got it
- 15:02:54 [Zakim]
- +josb
- 15:03:12 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 15:03:18 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 15:03:23 [StellaMitchell]
- zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
- 15:03:26 [Zakim]
- + +1.443.539.aaaa
- 15:03:34 [Zakim]
- +StellaMitchell; got it
- 15:03:38 [Zakim]
- +PaulaP
- 15:03:47 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:03:52 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres (muted), josb, StellaMitchell, Sandro, +1.443.539.aaaa, +49.892.1.aacc
- 15:04:17 [agiurca]
- agiurca has joined #rif
- 15:04:35 [Zakim]
- +DougL
- 15:04:47 [Doug]
- Doug has joined #rif
- 15:05:00 [AllenGinsberg]
- zakim aaaa is me
- 15:05:12 [AdrianP]
- AdrianP has joined #rif
- 15:05:12 [AllenGinsberg]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 15:05:12 [Zakim]
- +AllenGinsberg; got it
- 15:05:13 [PaulaP]
- :)
- 15:05:17 [AxelPolleres]
- :-D
- 15:05:42 [Zakim]
- + +1.410.290.aabb
- 15:05:42 [PaulaP]
- agiurca is Adrian Giurca
- 15:06:06 [ChrisW]
- adrian G are you here?
- 15:06:42 [mdean]
- mdean has joined #rif
- 15:06:48 [agiurca]
- yes
- 15:06:50 [ChrisW]
- zakim, aabb is mdean
- 15:06:50 [Zakim]
- +mdean; got it
- 15:06:56 [agiurca]
- I'll be on the phone too
- 15:07:07 [ChrisW]
- adrian, you had agreed to scribe today?
- 15:07:10 [agiurca]
- and I will scribe
- 15:07:27 [ChrisW]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Sep/att-0085/11-sept-07-rif-minutes.html
- 15:07:42 [Zakim]
- + +1.703.243.aacc
- 15:07:46 [ChrisW]
- RESOLVED: accept Sept 11 minutes
- 15:07:54 [Deborah_Nichols]
- Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
- 15:08:06 [Zakim]
- + +49.351.6.aadd
- 15:08:14 [ChrisW]
- zakim, aacc is Deborah_Nichols
- 15:08:14 [Zakim]
- sorry, ChrisW, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
- 15:08:35 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:08:35 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres (muted), josb, StellaMitchell (muted), Sandro, AllenGinsberg, PaulaP (muted), DougL, mdean,
- 15:08:38 [Zakim]
- ... +1.703.243.aaff, +49.351.6.aagg
- 15:08:44 [Zakim]
- +agiurca
- 15:08:49 [ChrisW]
- zakim, aaff is Deborah_Nichols
- 15:08:49 [Zakim]
- +Deborah_Nichols; got it
- 15:09:02 [ChrisW]
- scribenick: agiurca
- 15:09:11 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:09:11 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres (muted), josb, StellaMitchell (muted), Sandro, AllenGinsberg, PaulaP (muted), DougL, mdean,
- 15:09:13 [agiurca]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:09:14 [Zakim]
- ... Deborah_Nichols, +49.351.6.aagg, [TU-Cottbus]
- 15:09:16 [Zakim]
- sorry, agiurca, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 15:09:20 [AdrianP]
- zakim, aadd is me
- 15:09:20 [Zakim]
- sorry, AdrianP, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
- 15:09:39 [agiurca]
- zakim, aagg is me
- 15:09:39 [Zakim]
- +agiurca; got it
- 15:09:51 [agiurca]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:09:51 [Zakim]
- agiurca should now be muted
- 15:10:44 [ChrisW]
- zakim, next item
- 15:10:44 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 15:10:55 [AdrianP]
- Zakim, aadd is me
- 15:10:55 [Zakim]
- sorry, AdrianP, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
- 15:11:09 [agiurca]
- no
- 15:11:12 [agiurca]
- yes :)
- 15:11:18 [Zakim]
- +Gary_Hallmark
- 15:11:36 [agiurca]
- zakim, aadd is AdrianP
- 15:11:36 [Zakim]
- sorry, agiurca, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
- 15:11:49 [ChrisW]
- zakim, close item 2
- 15:11:49 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, Liason, closed
- 15:11:50 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:11:53 [Zakim]
- 3. F2F [from ChrisW]
- 15:11:56 [ChrisW]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 15:11:56 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "F2F" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 15:12:09 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
- 15:12:31 [IgorMozetic]
- IgorMozetic has joined #rif
- 15:12:37 [AdrianP]
- Zakim, aadd is me
- 15:12:38 [Zakim]
- sorry, AdrianP, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
- 15:12:55 [agiurca]
- ChrisW: F2F8 in Nov. 5-6 , Boston
- 15:13:03 [Zakim]
- +??P46
- 15:13:12 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zakim, ??P46 is me
- 15:13:12 [Zakim]
- +LeoraMorgenstern; got it
- 15:13:13 [Zakim]
- +??P57
- 15:13:16 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:13:16 [Zakim]
- LeoraMorgenstern should now be muted
- 15:13:25 [IgorMozetic]
- zakim, ??P57 is me
- 15:13:25 [Zakim]
- +IgorMozetic; got it
- 15:14:49 [IgorMozetic]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:14:49 [Zakim]
- IgorMozetic should now be muted
- 15:15:45 [ChrisW]
- zakim, next item
- 15:15:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "BLD - RDF" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 15:16:03 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:16:03 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres (muted), josb, StellaMitchell (muted), Sandro, AllenGinsberg, PaulaP (muted), DougL, mdean,
- 15:16:06 [Zakim]
- ... Deborah_Nichols, agiurca (muted), [TU-Cottbus], Gary_Hallmark, LeoraMorgenstern (muted), IgorMozetic (muted)
- 15:16:34 [josb]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/RIF-RDF_Compatibility
- 15:18:03 [josb]
- q+
- 15:19:05 [MichaelKifer]
- MichaelKifer has joined #rif
- 15:19:24 [Zakim]
- -agiurca
- 15:19:46 [agiurca]
- zakim, [TU-Cottbus] is me
- 15:19:46 [Zakim]
- +agiurca; got it
- 15:20:19 [Zakim]
- +agiurca.a
- 15:21:14 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Kifer
- 15:21:22 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:21:22 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should now be muted
- 15:21:26 [Harold]
- Couldn't the 'extension rules' always be specified in a fixed subset of BLD?
- 15:21:59 [Harold]
- (independent of the BLD dialects)
- 15:22:42 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 15:23:23 [agiurca]
- josb: This combination has his own semantics
- 15:23:47 [agiurca]
- josb: the semantics is an extension of BLD and RDF semantics
- 15:24:43 [DaveReynolds]
- q+
- 15:24:54 [josb]
- q-
- 15:24:54 [MichaelKifer]
- q+
- 15:24:59 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 15:25:03 [ChrisW]
- ack dave
- 15:27:36 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:27:36 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
- 15:27:43 [ChrisW]
- ack michael
- 15:28:49 [josb]
- q+
- 15:28:55 [agiurca]
- MichaelKifer: Embeding do not need any new task
- 15:29:29 [Zakim]
- -mdean
- 15:29:38 [agiurca]
- MichaelKifer: You need an embedding in oder to use RDF and RIF together
- 15:30:09 [agiurca]
- MichaelKifer: Otherwise you have to implement another language that extend both RIF and RDF
- 15:30:28 [agiurca]
- MichaelKifer: Embedding is the only thing that we need
- 15:30:59 [agiurca]
- josb: Explain why we need a new language in oder to use RDF and RIF together
- 15:31:32 [GaryHallmark]
- GaryHallmark has joined #rif
- 15:31:41 [AxelPolleres]
- from our charter (not sure whether directly related): "Note that the natural overlap in expressivity between this language and RDF means this syntax should function as an alternative XML serialization for RDF Graphs (or at least a subset of RDF Graphs)."
- 15:31:45 [agiurca]
- MichaelKifer: Without embedding people have to implement all kind of translations
- 15:32:12 [Hassan]
- +1 with MK ...
- 15:32:12 [agiurca]
- josb: is the embedding just a syntactic representation of RDF in RIF?
- 15:32:28 [agiurca]
- +1 with MichaelKifer solution
- 15:33:37 [agiurca]
- MichaelKifer: We need just embedding and model theory is redundant
- 15:33:41 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 15:34:05 [DaveReynolds]
- q+
- 15:34:09 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:34:09 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should now be muted
- 15:34:11 [ChrisW]
- ack j
- 15:34:12 [agiurca]
- MichaelKifer: Otherwise the users must decide how to do the embedding
- 15:34:50 [agiurca]
- josb: another argument in favor of model theoretic approach is that this is according with W3C recommendations
- 15:35:22 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:35:22 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
- 15:35:28 [MichaelKifer]
- q+
- 15:35:32 [agiurca]
- josb: You can do reasoning with RDF using this embedding. If you have the embedding you don't extend the existing RDF semantics
- 15:36:26 [agiurca]
- josb: My proposal is to do everything with model theory
- 15:37:17 [DaveReynolds]
- ack me
- 15:37:18 [agiurca]
- josb: Otherwise you need specific rule sets or specific constructs for queries...
- 15:38:30 [agiurca]
- MichaelKifer: Even with model theory you have to check consistency
- 15:38:33 [Hassan]
- +++1 for MK's point!
- 15:38:38 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 15:38:41 [ChrisW]
- ack m
- 15:39:04 [PaulaP]
- +1 to Michael's comment
- 15:39:06 [agiurca]
- MichaelKifer: Embedding is simple and straightforward to explain to people
- 15:39:15 [josb]
- q+
- 15:39:23 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 15:39:25 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:39:25 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should now be muted
- 15:39:26 [ChrisW]
- ack josb
- 15:39:27 [MichaelKifer]
- q-
- 15:40:43 [IgorMozetic]
- q+
- 15:41:05 [josb]
- q+
- 15:41:23 [JeffP]
- JeffP has joined #rif
- 15:41:34 [JeffP]
- sorry for the late
- 15:41:44 [agiurca]
- ChrisW: I guess examples are good to illustrate both approaches and they are desirable
- 15:42:21 [Zakim]
- + +012242aaee
- 15:42:44 [JeffP]
- zakim, +012242aaee is me
- 15:42:44 [Zakim]
- +JeffP; got it
- 15:42:46 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:42:46 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
- 15:43:20 [Hassan]
- q+
- 15:43:24 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 15:44:51 [agiurca]
- josb: There is a second point: the relation with RDF semantics document
- 15:45:27 [agiurca]
- josb: First we have to decide about the OWL - RIF compatibility
- 15:45:34 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:45:34 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should now be muted
- 15:45:36 [ChrisW]
- ack igor
- 15:46:10 [agiurca]
- IgorMozetic: Josb What is the vision of the implementation?
- 15:46:21 [agiurca]
- josb: the implementation uses embedding
- 15:46:45 [agiurca]
- IgorMozetic: So, you need embedding anyway
- 15:46:53 [agiurca]
- josb: No you don't need that
- 15:47:11 [ChrisW]
- ack jos
- 15:47:17 [ChrisW]
- ack hassan
- 15:47:41 [agiurca]
- Hassan_Ait-Kaci: I just want to emphasise the Michael Kifer point
- 15:47:52 [sandro]
- q+ to say redundancy isn't necessarily bad. readers don't have to read both -- just the one they want.
- 15:48:06 [agiurca]
- Hassan_Ait-Kaci: the embedding is straightforward for the most users of Prolog...
- 15:49:26 [agiurca]
- Hassan_Ait-Kaci: most RDF users do not uses the semantics
- 15:50:08 [agiurca]
- Hassan_Ait-Kaci: RDF grapth is just a data structure
- 15:50:09 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 15:50:21 [AxelPolleres]
- q+
- 15:51:06 [agiurca]
- +1 for hassan points. for RIF, RDF is a data model
- 15:51:31 [AxelPolleres]
- q-, +1 with sandro here.
- 15:51:39 [AxelPolleres]
- q-
- 15:52:03 [DaveReynolds]
- Adrian, Hassan - the embedding proposal proposes embedding the semantics (as rules) not just as a data structure
- 15:52:24 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:52:24 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
- 15:53:00 [agiurca]
- Michael_Kifer: making embedding normative will establish how RIF works with RDF
- 15:53:50 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 15:54:29 [agiurca]
- Dave, this is like in Jena no? That's why the embedding is sufficient
- 15:54:52 [DaveReynolds]
- q+
- 15:55:10 [ChrisW]
- ack sandro
- 15:55:10 [Zakim]
- sandro, you wanted to say redundancy isn't necessarily bad. readers don't have to read both -- just the one they want.
- 15:55:40 [ChrisW]
- ack DaveReynolds
- 15:57:46 [Hassan]
- q+
- 16:00:39 [josb]
- q+
- 16:00:48 [sandro]
- sandro has joined #rif
- 16:00:55 [agiurca]
- Michael_Kifer: I propose to split the document in two parts
- 16:01:28 [AxelPolleres]
- +1 to separate documents eventually
- 16:01:43 [AxelPolleres]
- ... and keeping model theory.
- 16:01:44 [agiurca]
- Michael_Kifer: I don not want the model theory in the sample document
- 16:02:19 [josb]
- we are also chartered to produce an OWL compatibility doc; RDF compatibility should also go in there
- 16:02:20 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:02:20 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should now be muted
- 16:02:32 [AxelPolleres]
- q+
- 16:02:34 [PaulaP]
- +1 to have two docs
- 16:02:41 [josb]
- q-
- 16:02:44 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:02:44 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer was already muted, MichaelKifer
- 16:02:48 [ChrisW]
- zakim, next item
- 16:02:48 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ChrisW
- 16:02:52 [Harold]
- Michael seems to say: we dont want an extra barrier to entry.
- 16:02:52 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 16:02:58 [ChrisW]
- axk Harold
- 16:03:01 [ChrisW]
- ack hassan
- 16:03:08 [sandro]
- (I didn't feel Chris' summary addressed the issue of DaveReynolds's point about reverse engineering.)
- 16:03:49 [agiurca]
- Hassan_Ait-Kaci: An example might be a rule set which us metaprogramming...
- 16:03:51 [ChrisW]
- ack axel
- 16:04:21 [MichaelKifer]
- q+
- 16:04:43 [agiurca]
- AxelPolleres: we might not know now which of the approaches is more complex
- 16:04:59 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:04:59 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
- 16:05:08 [agiurca]
- AxelPolleres: I think we need two documents
- 16:05:39 [josb]
- q+
- 16:05:40 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:05:42 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should now be muted
- 16:06:21 [MichaelKifer]
- q-
- 16:06:28 [agiurca]
- josb: we are also chartered to produce an OWL compatibility doc; RDF compatibility should also go in there
- 16:06:31 [AxelPolleres]
- Well, there is a lot of stuff which people who only need to use bld wouldn't need to care about (e.g. multiple truth values, etc.)
- 16:06:33 [josb]
- q-
- 16:07:10 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:07:10 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
- 16:07:11 [sandro]
- (I agree --- the Charter doesn't tell us how we need to organize our text into documents.)
- 16:07:11 [agiurca]
- chrisW: we don't really need a separate document on compatibility. We can just need to address compatibility with both RDF and OWL
- 16:08:17 [AxelPolleres]
- Could an intermediate solution be putting the model theory in an appendix and refferring to from the rules (stating that these are derivable from the model theory?)
- 16:08:25 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:08:25 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should now be muted
- 16:08:33 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 16:08:39 [ChrisW]
- zakim, next item
- 16:08:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Arch - XML Syntax" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 16:09:28 [sandro]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Arch/XML_Syntax_Issues_2
- 16:09:35 [ChrisW]
- zakim, mute Deborah_Nichols
- 16:09:35 [Zakim]
- Deborah_Nichols should now be muted
- 16:09:37 [agiurca]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:09:37 [Zakim]
- agiurca should now be muted
- 16:10:14 [PaulaP]
- I did read it
- 16:10:16 [DaveReynolds]
- I have glanced through it
- 16:10:22 [AxelPolleres]
- have had a glance today.
- 16:10:25 [Hassan]
- I have glanced thru it
- 16:10:25 [DougL]
- Not in the last 2 hours!!
- 16:10:26 [GaryHallmark]
- I skimmed it
- 16:10:30 [JeffP]
- not yet
- 16:10:59 [AdrianP]
- i did
- 16:12:25 [Harold]
- q+
- 16:12:36 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 16:12:53 [josb]
- q+
- 16:12:59 [AxelPolleres]
- q+
- 16:13:55 [agiurca]
- Harold: It was a little time to study the document since it was updated just two hours ago
- 16:13:57 [DaveReynolds]
- Harold - OWL is not based on RDF/XML it is a based on RDF that was the problem, Sandro's proposal is not for an RDF serialization
- 16:15:12 [GaryHallmark]
- -1 for rdf/xml
- 16:15:29 [Harold]
- DaveR, it's instructive to re-read: http://www.daml.org/listarchive/joint-committee/1635.html
- 16:16:26 [PaulaP]
- It is not clear why we should go for RDF/XML
- 16:16:35 [MichaelKifer]
- q+
- 16:16:42 [Harold]
- q-
- 16:16:47 [josb]
- yes, there can be confusion RDF as syntax for RIF and RDF as data set/model for RIF rules
- 16:16:53 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:16:53 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
- 16:16:58 [PaulaP]
- +1 to Axel's comment
- 16:17:00 [josb]
- s/confusion/confusion between/
- 16:17:11 [ChrisW]
- ack MichaelKifer
- 16:17:15 [ChrisW]
- ack josb
- 16:17:16 [josb]
- q-
- 16:17:17 [ChrisW]
- ack acel
- 16:17:22 [ChrisW]
- ack AxelPolleres
- 16:17:26 [MichaelKifer]
- q-
- 16:17:37 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:17:37 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should now be muted
- 16:21:53 [Harold]
- Human-readable greaterThan(?diffdate 10), if greaterThan is a SWRL Built-In,
- 16:21:53 [Harold]
- should become serialized as (since full striping was decided):
- 16:21:53 [Harold]
- <Uniterm>
- 16:21:53 [Harold]
- <op><Const iri="http://www.w3.org/Submission/SWRL/#8.1">greaterThan</Const></op>
- 16:21:53 [Harold]
- <arg><Var>diffdate</Var></arg>
- 16:21:54 [Harold]
- <arg><Const>10</Const></arg>
- 16:21:56 [Harold]
- </Uniterm>
- 16:22:43 [AxelPolleres]
- q+ (not asking about RDF syntax, promise! ;-) )
- 16:22:56 [AxelPolleres]
- q+
- 16:23:09 [GaryHallmark]
- is there a difference between "local named constants" and "literal data values"?
- 16:23:46 [DaveReynolds]
- Harold - how can http://www.w3.org/Submission/SWRL/#8.1 be the iri for greaterThan?
- 16:24:08 [Harold]
- It's currently the most fine-grained we have.
- 16:25:05 [Harold]
- For more completeness, we could create: iri="http://www.w3.org/Submission/SWRL/8.1/#greaterThan"
- 16:25:08 [agiurca]
- May be http://www.w3.org/2003/11/swrlb#greaterThan
- 16:25:21 [Hassan]
- q+
- 16:25:21 [DaveReynolds]
- Harold - so what's the relation between the IRI and the element content (i.e. "greaterThan")
- 16:25:21 [agiurca]
- but is the same ideea of course
- 16:25:37 [AxelPolleres]
- I proposed: &op;numeric-greater-than
- 16:26:14 [AxelPolleres]
- ... which would however require us to provide a namespace for the op: prefix used in the XPath-functions document
- 16:26:26 [Harold]
- You point to the specifying passage of the official document.
- 16:26:51 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 16:26:55 [ChrisW]
- ack axel
- 16:26:59 [ChrisW]
- ack Hassan
- 16:27:31 [AxelPolleres]
- Note that I ran in pretty many of the mentioned issues in: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UC10_Worked_Example
- 16:27:33 [agiurca]
- Hassan_Ait-Kaci: local names follow a scoping mechanism
- 16:27:49 [AxelPolleres]
- q-
- 16:28:07 [MichaelKifer]
- q+
- 16:28:28 [Harold]
- +1 to Hassan: also in the draft we already have a notion of rif:local <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/Positive_Conditions>.
- 16:28:59 [Harold]
- "Basic RIF logic also defines two additional symbol spaces, rif:iri (for international resource identifier or IRI) and rif:local (for constant symbols that are not visible outside of a particular set of RIF formulas)."
- 16:29:03 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 16:29:08 [ChrisW]
- q?
- 16:29:13 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:29:13 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
- 16:29:52 [agiurca]
- Michael_Kifer: There is already a syntax of these in the current document. There is no need for special elements for the local and global names
- 16:30:00 [Hassan]
- The XML syntax should reflect the spec
- 16:30:28 [MichaelKifer]
- q-
- 16:30:37 [MichaelKifer]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:30:37 [Zakim]
- Michael_Kifer should now be muted
- 16:30:38 [Harold]
- There's already <Const type="xsd:long">49</Const> in <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/Positive_Conditions>.
- 16:30:46 [ChrisW]
- zakim, next item
- 16:30:48 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "AOB" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 16:30:58 [agiurca]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:30:58 [Zakim]
- agiurca should no longer be muted
- 16:30:59 [PaulaP]
- bye
- 16:31:00 [JeffP]
- +1
- 16:31:01 [Zakim]
- -Deborah_Nichols
- 16:31:02 [JeffP]
- bye
- 16:31:02 [Zakim]
- -AllenGinsberg
- 16:31:03 [Zakim]
- -Harold
- 16:31:03 [PaulaP]
- PaulaP has left #rif
- 16:31:04 [Zakim]
- -IgorMozetic
- 16:31:05 [Zakim]
- -StellaMitchell
- 16:31:06 [Zakim]
- -Gary_Hallmark
- 16:31:07 [Zakim]
- -PaulaP
- 16:31:08 [Zakim]
- -LeoraMorgenstern
- 16:31:10 [ChrisW]
- zakim, list attendees
- 16:31:10 [Zakim]
- -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
- 16:31:11 [Zakim]
- -JeffP
- 16:31:12 [Zakim]
- -josb
- 16:31:14 [Zakim]
- -Dave_Reynolds
- 16:31:16 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres, josb, Sandro, +1.443.539.aaaa, StellaMitchell, PaulaP, DougL, AllenGinsberg,
- 16:31:19 [Zakim]
- ... +1.410.290.aabb, mdean, +1.703.243.aacc, +49.351.6.aadd, agiurca, Deborah_Nichols, Gary_Hallmark, LeoraMorgenstern, IgorMozetic, Michael_Kifer, JeffP
- 16:31:22 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Kifer
- 16:31:24 [Zakim]
- -DougL
- 16:31:26 [Zakim]
- -agiurca.a
- 16:31:28 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 16:31:30 [Zakim]
- -AxelPolleres
- 16:31:36 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:31:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
- 16:32:00 [Zakim]
- -ChrisW
- 16:32:01 [Zakim]
- -agiurca
- 16:32:03 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
- 16:32:05 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres, josb, Sandro, +1.443.539.aaaa, StellaMitchell, PaulaP, DougL, AllenGinsberg, +1.410.290.aabb, mdean,
- 16:32:10 [Zakim]
- ... +1.703.243.aacc, +49.351.6.aadd, agiurca, Deborah_Nichols, Gary_Hallmark, LeoraMorgenstern, IgorMozetic, Michael_Kifer, JeffP
- 16:32:29 [ChrisW]
- Regrets: PaulVincent
- 16:32:33 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:32:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
- 16:35:27 [PaschkeA]
- PaschkeA has joined #rif