14:53:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:53:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-rif-irc
14:53:49 <ChrisW> zakim, this will be rif
14:53:49 <Zakim> ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
14:53:59 <ChrisW> zakim, this will be rif
14:53:59 <Zakim> ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
14:53:59 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 
14:54:06 <ChrisW> zakim, this will be rif
14:54:06 <Zakim> ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:54:06 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 
14:54:17 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 18 Sept 2007
14:54:27 <ChrisW> Chair: Chris Welty
14:54:44 <ChrisW> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Sep/0093.html
14:54:55 <ChrisW> Scribe: Adrian Giurca
14:55:28 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:55:36 <ChrisW> zakim, clear agenda
14:55:36 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:55:46 <ChrisW> agenda+ Admin
14:55:52 <ChrisW> agenda+ Liason
14:55:56 <ChrisW> agenda+ F2F
14:56:07 <ChrisW> agenda+ BLD - RDF
14:56:19 <ChrisW> agenda+ Arch - XML Syntax
14:56:26 <ChrisW> agenda+ AOB
14:56:35 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 1
14:56:35 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
14:56:43 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
14:58:20 <patranja> patranja has joined #rif
14:59:50 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:00:13 <Hassan> Hassan has joined #rif
15:00:16 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:00:17 <Zakim> +Dave_Reynolds (was Guest P16 74394)
15:00:22 <Zakim> +Dave_Reynolds
15:00:47 <Zakim> +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
15:00:56 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:01:12 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
15:01:15 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:01:16 <ChrisW> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:01:16 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
15:01:26 <StellaMitchell> StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:01:29 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW
15:02:12 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
15:02:30 <Zakim> +??P38
15:02:44 <josb> josb has joined #rif
15:02:45 <Harold>  zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:02:45 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, ??P38 is me
15:02:50 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
15:02:52 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
15:02:54 <Zakim> +josb
15:03:12 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:03:18 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:03:23 <StellaMitchell> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:03:26 <Zakim> + +1.443.539.aaaa
15:03:34 <Zakim> +StellaMitchell; got it
15:03:38 <Zakim> +PaulaP
15:03:47 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres (muted), josb, StellaMitchell, Sandro, +1.443.539.aaaa, +49.892.1.aacc
15:04:17 <agiurca> agiurca has joined #rif
15:04:35 <Zakim> +DougL
15:04:47 <Doug> Doug has joined #rif
15:05:00 <AllenGinsberg> zakim aaaa is me
15:05:12 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
15:05:12 <AllenGinsberg> zakim, aaaa is me
15:05:12 <Zakim> +AllenGinsberg; got it
15:05:13 <PaulaP> :)
15:05:17 <AxelPolleres> :-D
15:05:42 <Zakim> + +1.410.290.aabb
15:05:42 <PaulaP> agiurca is Adrian Giurca
15:06:06 <ChrisW> adrian G are you here?
15:06:42 <mdean> mdean has joined #rif
15:06:48 <agiurca> yes
15:06:50 <ChrisW> zakim, aabb is mdean
15:06:50 <Zakim> +mdean; got it
15:06:56 <agiurca> I'll be on the phone too
15:07:07 <ChrisW> adrian, you had agreed to scribe today?
15:07:10 <agiurca> and I will scribe
15:07:27 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Sep/att-0085/11-sept-07-rif-minutes.html
15:07:42 <Zakim> + +1.703.243.aacc
15:07:46 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: accept Sept 11 minutes
15:07:54 <Deborah_Nichols> Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
15:08:06 <Zakim> + +49.351.6.aadd
15:08:14 <ChrisW> zakim, aacc is Deborah_Nichols
15:08:14 <Zakim> sorry, ChrisW, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
15:08:35 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres (muted), josb, StellaMitchell (muted), Sandro, AllenGinsberg, PaulaP (muted), DougL, mdean,
15:08:38 <Zakim> ... +1.703.243.aaff, +49.351.6.aagg
15:08:44 <Zakim> +agiurca
15:08:49 <ChrisW> zakim, aaff is Deborah_Nichols
15:08:49 <Zakim> +Deborah_Nichols; got it
15:09:02 <ChrisW> scribenick: agiurca
15:09:11 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:09:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres (muted), josb, StellaMitchell (muted), Sandro, AllenGinsberg, PaulaP (muted), DougL, mdean,
15:09:13 <agiurca> zakim, mute me
15:09:14 <Zakim> ... Deborah_Nichols, +49.351.6.aagg, [TU-Cottbus]
15:09:16 <Zakim> sorry, agiurca, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:09:20 <AdrianP> zakim, aadd is me
15:09:20 <Zakim> sorry, AdrianP, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
15:09:39 <agiurca> zakim, aagg is me
15:09:39 <Zakim> +agiurca; got it
15:09:51 <agiurca> zakim, mute me
15:09:51 <Zakim> agiurca should now be muted
15:10:55 <AdrianP> Zakim, aadd is me
15:10:55 <Zakim> sorry, AdrianP, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
15:11:09 <agiurca> no
15:11:12 <agiurca> yes :)
15:11:18 <Zakim> +Gary_Hallmark
15:11:36 <agiurca> zakim, aadd is AdrianP
15:11:36 <Zakim> sorry, agiurca, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
15:11:49 <ChrisW> zakim, close item 2
15:11:49 <Zakim> agendum 2, Liason, closed
15:11:50 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:11:53 <Zakim> 3. F2F [from ChrisW]
15:11:56 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 3
15:11:56 <Zakim> agendum 3. "F2F" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:12:09 <LeoraMorgenstern> LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:12:31 <IgorMozetic> IgorMozetic has joined #rif
15:12:37 <AdrianP> Zakim, aadd is me
15:12:38 <Zakim> sorry, AdrianP, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
15:12:55 <agiurca> ChrisW: F2F8 in Nov. 5-6 , Boston
15:13:03 <Zakim> +??P46
15:13:12 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, ??P46 is me
15:13:12 <Zakim> +LeoraMorgenstern; got it
15:13:13 <Zakim> +??P57
15:13:16 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, mute me
15:13:16 <Zakim> LeoraMorgenstern should now be muted
15:13:25 <IgorMozetic> zakim, ??P57 is me
15:13:25 <Zakim> +IgorMozetic; got it
15:14:49 <IgorMozetic> zakim, mute me
15:14:49 <Zakim> IgorMozetic should now be muted
15:15:45 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:15:47 <Zakim> agendum 4. "BLD - RDF" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:16:03 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:16:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres (muted), josb, StellaMitchell (muted), Sandro, AllenGinsberg, PaulaP (muted), DougL, mdean,
15:16:06 <Zakim> ... Deborah_Nichols, agiurca (muted), [TU-Cottbus], Gary_Hallmark, LeoraMorgenstern (muted), IgorMozetic (muted)
15:16:34 <josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/RIF-RDF_Compatibility
15:18:03 <josb> q+
15:19:05 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:19:24 <Zakim> -agiurca
15:19:46 <agiurca> zakim, [TU-Cottbus] is me
15:19:46 <Zakim> +agiurca; got it
15:20:19 <Zakim> +agiurca.a
15:21:14 <Zakim> +Michael_Kifer
15:21:22 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
15:21:22 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:21:26 <Harold> Couldn't the 'extension rules' always be specified in a fixed subset of BLD?
15:21:59 <Harold> (independent of the BLD dialects)
15:22:42 <ChrisW> q?
15:23:23 <agiurca> josb: This combination has his own semantics 
15:23:47 <agiurca> josb: the semantics is an extension of BLD and RDF semantics
15:24:43 <DaveReynolds> q+
15:24:54 <josb> q-
15:24:54 <MichaelKifer> q+
15:24:59 <ChrisW> q?
15:25:03 <ChrisW> ack dave
15:27:36 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
15:27:36 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:27:43 <ChrisW> ack michael
15:28:49 <josb> q+
15:28:55 <agiurca> MichaelKifer: Embeding do not need any new task
15:29:29 <Zakim> -mdean
15:29:38 <agiurca> MichaelKifer: You need an embedding in oder to use RDF and RIF together
15:30:09 <agiurca> MichaelKifer: Otherwise you have to implement another language that extend both RIF and RDF
15:30:28 <agiurca> MichaelKifer: Embedding is the only thing that we need
15:30:59 <agiurca> josb: Explain why we need a new language in oder to use RDF and RIF together
15:31:32 <GaryHallmark> GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:31:41 <AxelPolleres> from our charter (not sure whether directly related): "Note that the natural overlap in expressivity between this language and RDF means this syntax should function as an alternative XML serialization for RDF Graphs (or at least a subset of RDF Graphs)."
15:31:45 <agiurca> MichaelKifer: Without embedding people have to implement all kind of translations
15:32:12 <Hassan> +1 with MK ...
15:32:12 <agiurca> josb: is the embedding just a syntactic representation of RDF in RIF?
15:32:28 <agiurca> +1 with MichaelKifer solution
15:33:37 <agiurca> MichaelKifer: We need just embedding and model theory is redundant
15:33:41 <ChrisW> q?
15:34:05 <DaveReynolds> q+
15:34:09 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
15:34:09 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:34:11 <ChrisW> ack j
15:34:12 <agiurca> MichaelKifer: Otherwise the users must decide how to do the embedding
15:34:50 <agiurca> josb: another argument in favor of model theoretic approach is that this is according with W3C recommendations 
15:35:22 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
15:35:22 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:35:28 <MichaelKifer> q+
15:35:32 <agiurca> josb: You can do reasoning with RDF using this embedding. If you have the embedding you don't extend the existing RDF semantics
15:36:26 <agiurca> josb: My proposal is to do everything with  model theory
15:37:17 <DaveReynolds> ack me
15:37:18 <agiurca> josb: Otherwise you need specific rule sets or specific constructs for queries...
15:38:30 <agiurca> MichaelKifer: Even with model theory you have to check consistency
15:38:33 <Hassan> +++1 for MK's point!
15:38:38 <ChrisW> q?
15:38:41 <ChrisW> ack m
15:39:04 <PaulaP> +1 to Michael's comment
15:39:06 <agiurca> MichaelKifer: Embedding is simple and straightforward to explain to people
15:39:15 <josb> q+
15:39:23 <ChrisW> q?
15:39:25 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
15:39:25 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:39:26 <ChrisW> ack josb
15:39:27 <MichaelKifer> q-
15:40:43 <IgorMozetic> q+
15:41:05 <josb> q+
15:41:23 <JeffP> JeffP has joined #rif
15:41:34 <JeffP> sorry for the late
15:41:44 <agiurca> ChrisW: I guess examples are good to illustrate both approaches and they are desirable
15:42:21 <Zakim> + +012242aaee
15:42:44 <JeffP> zakim, +012242aaee is me
15:42:44 <Zakim> +JeffP; got it
15:42:46 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
15:42:46 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:43:20 <Hassan> q+
15:43:24 <ChrisW> q?
15:44:51 <agiurca> josb: There is a second point: the relation with RDF semantics document
15:45:27 <agiurca> josb: First we have to decide about the OWL - RIF compatibility
15:45:34 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
15:45:34 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:45:36 <ChrisW> ack igor
15:46:10 <agiurca> IgorMozetic: Josb What is the vision of the implementation?
15:46:21 <agiurca> josb: the implementation uses embedding
15:46:45 <agiurca> IgorMozetic: So, you need embedding anyway
15:46:53 <agiurca> josb: No you don't need that
15:47:11 <ChrisW> ack jos
15:47:17 <ChrisW> ack hassan
15:47:41 <agiurca> Hassan_Ait-Kaci: I just want to emphasise the Michael Kifer point
15:47:52 <sandro> q+ to say redundancy isn't necessarily bad.   readers don't have to read both -- just the one they want.
15:48:06 <agiurca> Hassan_Ait-Kaci: the embedding is straightforward for the most users of Prolog...
15:49:26 <agiurca> Hassan_Ait-Kaci: most RDF users do not uses the semantics
15:50:08 <agiurca> Hassan_Ait-Kaci: RDF grapth is just  a data structure
15:50:09 <ChrisW> q?
15:50:21 <AxelPolleres> q+
15:51:06 <agiurca> +1 for hassan points. for RIF, RDF is a data model
15:51:31 <AxelPolleres> q-, +1 with sandro here. 
15:51:39 <AxelPolleres> q-
15:52:03 <DaveReynolds> Adrian, Hassan - the embedding proposal proposes embedding the semantics (as rules) not just as a data structure
15:52:24 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
15:52:24 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:53:00 <agiurca> Michael_Kifer: making embedding normative will establish how RIF works with RDF
15:53:50 <ChrisW> q?
15:54:29 <agiurca> Dave, this is like in Jena no? That's why the embedding is sufficient
15:54:52 <DaveReynolds> q+
15:55:10 <ChrisW> ack sandro
15:55:10 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to say redundancy isn't necessarily bad.   readers don't have to read both -- just the one they want.
15:55:40 <ChrisW> ack DaveReynolds
15:57:46 <Hassan> q+
16:00:39 <josb> q+
16:00:48 <sandro> sandro has joined #rif
16:00:55 <agiurca> Michael_Kifer: I propose to split the document in two parts
16:01:28 <AxelPolleres> +1 to separate documents eventually
16:01:43 <AxelPolleres> ... and keeping model theory.
16:01:44 <agiurca> Michael_Kifer: I don not want the model theory in the sample document 
16:02:19 <josb> we are also chartered to produce an OWL compatibility doc; RDF compatibility should also go in there
16:02:20 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:02:20 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:02:32 <AxelPolleres> q+
16:02:34 <PaulaP> +1 to have two docs
16:02:41 <josb> q-
16:02:44 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:02:44 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer was already muted, MichaelKifer
16:02:48 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:02:48 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ChrisW
16:02:52 <Harold> Michael seems to say: we dont want an extra barrier to entry.
16:02:52 <ChrisW> q?
16:02:58 <ChrisW> axk Harold
16:03:01 <ChrisW> ack hassan
16:03:08 <sandro> (I didn't feel Chris' summary addressed the issue of DaveReynolds's point about reverse engineering.)
16:03:49 <agiurca> Hassan_Ait-Kaci: An example might be a rule set which us metaprogramming...
16:03:51 <ChrisW> ack axel
16:04:21 <MichaelKifer> q+
16:04:43 <agiurca> AxelPolleres: we might not know now which of the approaches is more complex
16:04:59 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:04:59 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:05:08 <agiurca> AxelPolleres: I think we need two documents
16:05:39 <josb> q+
16:05:40 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:05:42 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:06:21 <MichaelKifer> q-
16:06:28 <agiurca> josb: we are also chartered to produce an OWL compatibility doc; RDF compatibility should also go in there
16:06:31 <AxelPolleres> Well, there is a lot of stuff which people who only need to use bld wouldn't need to care about (e.g. multiple truth values, etc.) 
16:06:33 <josb> q-
16:07:10 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:07:10 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:07:11 <sandro> (I agree --- the Charter doesn't tell us how we need to organize our text into documents.)
16:07:11 <agiurca> chrisW: we don't really need a separate document on compatibility. We can just  need to address compatibility with both RDF and OWL
16:08:17 <AxelPolleres> Could an intermediate solution be putting the model theory in an appendix and refferring to from the rules (stating that these are derivable from the model theory?)
16:08:25 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:08:25 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:08:33 <ChrisW> q?
16:08:39 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:08:40 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Arch - XML Syntax" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:09:28 <sandro> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Arch/XML_Syntax_Issues_2
16:09:35 <ChrisW> zakim, mute Deborah_Nichols
16:09:35 <Zakim> Deborah_Nichols should now be muted
16:09:37 <agiurca> zakim, mute me
16:09:37 <Zakim> agiurca should now be muted
16:10:14 <PaulaP> I did read it
16:10:16 <DaveReynolds> I have glanced through it
16:10:22 <AxelPolleres> have had a glance today.
16:10:25 <Hassan> I have glanced thru it
16:10:25 <DougL> Not in the last 2 hours!!
16:10:26 <GaryHallmark> I skimmed it
16:10:30 <JeffP> not yet
16:10:59 <AdrianP> i did
16:12:25 <Harold> q+
16:12:36 <ChrisW> q?
16:12:53 <josb> q+
16:12:59 <AxelPolleres> q+
16:13:55 <agiurca> Harold: It was a little time to study the document since it was updated just two hours ago
16:13:57 <DaveReynolds> Harold - OWL is not based on RDF/XML it is a based on RDF that was the problem, Sandro's proposal is not for an RDF serialization
16:15:12 <GaryHallmark> -1 for rdf/xml
16:15:29 <Harold> DaveR, it's instructive to re-read: http://www.daml.org/listarchive/joint-committee/1635.html
16:16:26 <PaulaP> It is not clear why we should go for RDF/XML
16:16:35 <MichaelKifer> q+
16:16:42 <Harold> q-
16:16:47 <josb> yes, there can be confusion RDF as syntax for RIF and RDF as data set/model for RIF rules
16:16:53 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:16:53 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:16:58 <PaulaP> +1 to Axel's comment
16:17:00 <josb> s/confusion/confusion between/
16:17:11 <ChrisW> ack MichaelKifer
16:17:15 <ChrisW> ack josb
16:17:16 <josb> q-
16:17:17 <ChrisW> ack acel
16:17:22 <ChrisW> ack AxelPolleres
16:17:26 <MichaelKifer> q-
16:17:37 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:17:37 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:21:53 <Harold>  Human-readable greaterThan(?diffdate 10), if greaterThan is a SWRL Built-In,
16:21:53 <Harold> should become serialized as (since full striping was decided):
16:21:53 <Harold>               <Uniterm>
16:21:53 <Harold>                 <op><Const iri="http://www.w3.org/Submission/SWRL/#8.1">greaterThan</Const></op>
16:21:53 <Harold>                 <arg><Var>diffdate</Var></arg>
16:21:54 <Harold>                 <arg><Const>10</Const></arg>
16:21:56 <Harold>               </Uniterm>
16:22:43 <AxelPolleres> q+ (not asking about RDF syntax, promise! ;-) )
16:22:56 <AxelPolleres> q+
16:23:09 <GaryHallmark> is there a difference between "local named constants" and "literal data values"?
16:23:46 <DaveReynolds> Harold - how can http://www.w3.org/Submission/SWRL/#8.1 be the iri for greaterThan?
16:24:08 <Harold> It's currently the most fine-grained we have.
16:25:05 <Harold> For more completeness, we could create:  iri="http://www.w3.org/Submission/SWRL/8.1/#greaterThan"
16:25:08 <agiurca> May be http://www.w3.org/2003/11/swrlb#greaterThan
16:25:21 <Hassan> q+
16:25:21 <DaveReynolds> Harold - so what's the relation between the IRI and the element content (i.e. "greaterThan")
16:25:21 <agiurca> but is the same ideea of course
16:25:37 <AxelPolleres> I proposed: &op;numeric-greater-than
16:26:14 <AxelPolleres> ... which would however require us to provide a namespace for the op: prefix used in the XPath-functions document
16:26:26 <Harold> You point to the specifying passage of the official document.
16:26:51 <ChrisW> q?
16:26:55 <ChrisW> ack axel
16:26:59 <ChrisW> ack Hassan
16:27:31 <AxelPolleres> Note that I ran in pretty many of the mentioned issues in: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UC10_Worked_Example
16:27:33 <agiurca> Hassan_Ait-Kaci: local names follow a scoping mechanism
16:27:49 <AxelPolleres> q-
16:28:07 <MichaelKifer> q+
16:28:28 <Harold> +1 to Hassan: also in the draft we already have a notion of rif:local <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/Positive_Conditions>.
16:28:59 <Harold> "Basic RIF logic also defines two additional symbol spaces, rif:iri (for international resource identifier or IRI) and rif:local (for constant symbols that are not visible outside of a particular set of RIF formulas)."
16:29:03 <ChrisW> q?
16:29:08 <ChrisW> q?
16:29:13 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:29:13 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:29:52 <agiurca> Michael_Kifer: There is already a syntax of these in the current document. There is no need for special elements for the local and global names
16:30:00 <Hassan> The XML syntax should reflect the spec
16:30:28 <MichaelKifer> q-
16:30:37 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:30:37 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:30:38 <Harold> There's already <Const type="xsd:long">49</Const> in <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/Positive_Conditions>.
16:30:46 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:30:48 <Zakim> agendum 6. "AOB" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:30:58 <agiurca> zakim, unmute me
16:30:58 <Zakim> agiurca should no longer be muted
16:30:59 <PaulaP> bye
16:31:00 <JeffP> +1
16:31:01 <Zakim> -Deborah_Nichols
16:31:02 <JeffP> bye
16:31:02 <Zakim> -AllenGinsberg
16:31:03 <Zakim> -Harold
16:31:03 <PaulaP> PaulaP has left #rif
16:31:04 <Zakim> -IgorMozetic
16:31:05 <Zakim> -StellaMitchell
16:31:06 <Zakim> -Gary_Hallmark
16:31:07 <Zakim> -PaulaP
16:31:08 <Zakim> -LeoraMorgenstern
16:31:10 <ChrisW> zakim, list attendees
16:31:10 <Zakim> -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:31:11 <Zakim> -JeffP
16:31:12 <Zakim> -josb
16:31:14 <Zakim> -Dave_Reynolds
16:31:16 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres, josb, Sandro, +1.443.539.aaaa, StellaMitchell, PaulaP, DougL, AllenGinsberg,
16:31:19 <Zakim> ... +1.410.290.aabb, mdean, +1.703.243.aacc, +49.351.6.aadd, agiurca, Deborah_Nichols, Gary_Hallmark, LeoraMorgenstern, IgorMozetic, Michael_Kifer, JeffP
16:31:22 <Zakim> -Michael_Kifer
16:31:24 <Zakim> -DougL
16:31:26 <Zakim> -agiurca.a
16:31:28 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:31:30 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
16:31:36 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:32:00 <Zakim> -ChrisW
16:32:01 <Zakim> -agiurca
16:32:03 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:32:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, Harold, AxelPolleres, josb, Sandro, +1.443.539.aaaa, StellaMitchell, PaulaP, DougL, AllenGinsberg, +1.410.290.aabb, mdean,
16:32:10 <Zakim> ... +1.703.243.aacc, +49.351.6.aadd, agiurca, Deborah_Nichols, Gary_Hallmark, LeoraMorgenstern, IgorMozetic, Michael_Kifer, JeffP
16:32:29 <ChrisW> Regrets: PaulVincent
16:32:33 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:32:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/18-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:35:27 <PaschkeA> PaschkeA has joined #rif