18:00:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sml
18:00:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-sml-irc
18:00:48 <Zakim> +Sandy
18:01:02 <johnarwe> zakim, who's on the phone
18:01:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', johnarwe
18:01:09 <Valentina> Valentina has joined #sml
18:01:10 <johnarwe> zakim, who's on the phone?
18:01:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.603.823.aaaa, +1.845.433.aabb, [Microsoft], Sandy
18:01:25 <johnarwe> zakim, aaas is Kirk
18:01:25 <Zakim> sorry, johnarwe, I do not recognize a party named 'aaas'
18:01:35 <Zakim> + +1.905.413.aacc
18:01:43 <pratul> Zakim, aabb is me
18:01:43 <Zakim> +pratul; got it
18:01:44 <johnarwe> zakim, aaaa is Kirk
18:01:44 <Zakim> +Kirk; got it
18:01:56 <johnarwe> zakim, aacc is Valentina
18:01:56 <Zakim> +Valentina; got it
18:02:06 <johnarwe> zakim, aabb is John
18:02:06 <Zakim> sorry, johnarwe, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
18:02:08 <Jordan> Jordan has joined #sml
18:02:21 <Sandy> zakim, pratul is John
18:02:21 <Zakim> +John; got it
18:02:31 <pratul> zakim, Microsoft is me
18:02:31 <Zakim> +pratul; got it
18:02:39 <Zakim> +Zulah_Eckert
18:03:03 <Zakim> + +1.303.495.aadd
18:03:24 <zulah> zulah has joined #sml
18:03:44 <johnarwe> zakim, aadd is Jordan
18:03:44 <Zakim> +Jordan; got it
18:04:05 <MSM> zakim, please call MSM-Office
18:04:05 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
18:04:06 <Zakim> +MSM
18:04:10 <Zakim> + +1.267.987.aaee
18:04:21 <johnarwe> zakim, aaee is Paul
18:04:21 <Zakim> +Paul; got it
18:05:03 <johnarwe> zakim, who's on the phone?
18:05:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kirk, John, pratul, Sandy, Valentina, Zulah_Eckert, Jordan, MSM, Paul
18:05:05 <Zakim> + +1.484.239.aaff
18:06:59 <johnarwe> zakim, who's on the phone?
18:06:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kirk, John, pratul, Sandy, Valentina, Zulah_Eckert, Jordan, MSM, Paul, +1.484.239.aaff
18:07:15 <johnarwe> zakim, aaff is Jim
18:07:15 <Zakim> +Jim; got it
18:07:23 <Zakim> + +1.360.383.aagg
18:07:47 <johnarwe> zakim, aagg is Marv
18:07:47 <Zakim> +Marv; got it
18:07:57 <MSM> zakim, what's the code?
18:07:57 <Zakim> the conference code is 76594 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MSM
18:08:04 <johnarwe> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/SML
18:08:12 <ginny> ginny has joined #sml
18:08:38 <Zakim> + +1.530.823.aahh
18:09:10 <johnarwe> zakim, aahh is Ginny
18:09:10 <Zakim> +Ginny; got it
18:09:16 <Marv> Marv has joined #sml
18:09:39 <Jordan> 76594 => SMLWG (alpha on a phone keypad)
18:11:11 <johnarwe> zakim, who's on the phone?
18:11:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kirk, John, pratul, Sandy, Valentina, Zulah_Eckert, Jordan, MSM, Paul, Jim, Marv, Ginny
18:11:14 <Jordan> Scribe: Jordan Boucher
18:11:20 <Jordan> ScribeNick: Jordan
18:12:06 <Jordan> Meeting: SML WG Teleconf 2007-09-06
18:12:19 <Jordan> Chair: John and Pratul
18:12:37 <johnarwe> updates to agenda scribe list
18:12:39 <johnarwe> 2007-08-23        Eckert, Zulah
18:12:54 <johnarwe> 2007-08-28        Lynn, James 
18:12:54 <johnarwe> 2007-08-28        Gao, Sandy 
18:13:01 <pratul> Agenda is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2007Sep/0009.html
18:13:09 <johnarwe> 2007-08-29        Valentina Popescu 
18:13:09 <johnarwe> 2007-08-29        Wilson, Kirk 
18:13:09 <johnarwe> 2007-08-30        Lipton, Paul 
18:13:59 <Jordan> topic: f2f meetings
18:14:07 <Jordan> s/meetings/meeting minutes/
18:14:22 <Jordan> resolution: minutes approved
18:15:14 <Jordan> s/f2f/last/
18:16:31 <Jordan> resolution: skip over due actions this week
18:17:13 <Jordan> topic: item 5 - Editorial continuity
18:19:09 <Jim> Jim has joined #sml
18:21:25 <Kumar> Kumar has joined #sml
18:22:26 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
18:24:14 <Jordan> resolution: Jim to lead editors through draft
18:24:19 <johnarwe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2007Sep/0007.html
18:24:34 <Jordan> topic: item 6 - Continue references discussion
18:27:28 <Jordan> Sandy: summarized issues
18:27:54 <Jordan> Sandy: need agreement on sections 2, 3 and 6
18:33:33 <MSM> [Pratul, can you expound on why you believe the identity checking problem is hard?  Where does the difficulty lie?]
18:33:42 <Jordan> Ginny: shares Pratul's concern about section 2
18:39:50 <pratul> Here's the URL for my email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2007Sep/0019.html
18:43:32 <Jordan> discussion about deref()
18:44:25 <pratul> MSM, the identity check is possible to implement using the notion of a document identity and the XPath from the document root to the element
18:45:21 <Zakim> -Paul
18:46:16 <pratul> However, there was concern in the private WG that this will be difficult to implement in distributed scenarios where the model docs are distributed
18:50:41 <Zakim> + +1.732.658.aaii
18:54:57 <johnarwe> Ginny suggested de-coupling def of deref() from consumers.  Kumar notes "consumer" was recently removed from SML spec.
18:55:10 <Jim> Jim has left #sml
18:55:39 <Zakim> -Jim
18:57:14 <johnarwe> e.g. ref proposal 2.1 is "strict", 2.2 is "lax".  validating consumers require "strict" behavior.  this separates the concerns.
18:58:54 <Jordan> Ginny mentioned need to update conformance section based on this decision
19:00:37 <Jordan> resolution: de-couple def of deref(), as suggested by Ginny
19:01:35 <pratul> resolution is to decouple the defn of deref() from the notion of a consumer
19:21:42 <ginny> ginny has joined #sml
19:42:15 <johnarwe> MSM suggests de-coupling ref validity checking (eg mult ref schemes in 1 ref must pt to same doc+element)
19:42:31 <johnarwe> ... from definition of deref()
19:47:41 <johnarwe> Pratul notes current content of deref()  (x.1.2.4) only has a vague implication that the ref's validity gets checked
19:48:10 <johnarwe> section is structured oddly...validation implication is really implied by pre-conditions.
19:48:50 <johnarwe> Sandy suggests ref proposal 2.1 be used for what validators must do, and 2.2 be used for what deref() must do.
19:49:27 <johnarwe> awkward section is http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-sml-20070806/#deref_28_29_XPath_Extension_Function
19:53:31 <johnarwe> MSM would like to say "an impl of deref() that actually checks all the schemes is just an impl of 2.2"
19:58:53 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
19:58:54 <Zakim> -pratul
19:58:54 <Zakim> -Zulah_Eckert
19:58:55 <Zakim> -Kirk
19:58:55 <Zakim> -Ginny
19:58:56 <Zakim> - +1.732.658.aaii
19:58:58 <Zakim> -Marv
19:58:59 <Zakim> -John
19:59:00 <Zakim> -Valentina
19:59:02 <Zakim> -Sandy
19:59:04 <Zakim> -Jordan
19:59:06 <Zakim> -MSM
19:59:06 <ginny>  /leave
19:59:08 <Zakim> XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has ended
19:59:10 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.603.823.aaaa, +1.845.433.aabb, Sandy, +1.905.413.aacc, Kirk, Valentina, John, pratul, Zulah_Eckert, +1.303.495.aadd, Jordan, MSM, +1.267.987.aaee, Paul,
19:59:13 <Zakim> ... +1.484.239.aaff, Jim, +1.360.383.aagg, Marv, +1.530.823.aahh, Ginny, [Microsoft], +1.732.658.aaii
19:59:13 <Jordan> John: continue ref proposal via email
19:59:20 <johnarwe> rrsagent, create minutes
19:59:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-sml-minutes.html johnarwe
19:59:56 <johnarwe> johnarwe has left #sml
20:34:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sml
20:45:24 <Jordan> exit
21:11:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items