See also: IRC log
<RalphS> previous 2007-08-07
PROPOSED to accept minutes of 7 August telecon:
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/07-swd-minutes.html
RESOLVED
<RalphS> f2f registration questionnaire
tomb: f2f meeting resolved, looks like guus, tom, diego, ed, antoine, ... looks like pretty full meeting
antoine has set up meeting web page, registration form in agenda
<RalphS> (only 4 people registered thus far)
guus: there is alist of hotels there. our university just outside south of city centre. hotels all between uni and city centre, nice locations
<RalphS> Amsterdam f2f logistics
guus: also informed W3C office in netherlands,
maybe organise something
... logistics page in VU house style, doesn't conform to accessibility
guidelines, so remove style
<scribe> ACTION: Antoine & Guus will take on setting up logistics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/07-swd-minutes.html#action01] [DONE]
guus: tomb & I to do agenda and set up list of documents. We should look at main issues on table, and distribute preparation work. Set some targets, e.g. issues to resolve at f2f.
tomb: note new issue about drawing pictures ...
tomb: good topic to quickly get feedback on,
need high level diagram on what SKOS is about ... something useful to have,
good to discuss at f2f. Any volunteers to start drawing a picture?
... put on agenda for amsterdam, not at top of agenda, but way to make sure
we're all on same page wrt bigger picture
<Zakim> aliman, you wanted to mention pictures drawn
<RalphS> Alistair: I just finished writing a tutorial on vocabularies for next week's Dublin Core conference
http://isegserv.itd.rl.ac.uk/public/ajm65/dc2007/tutorial.pdf -> tutorial on vocabularies for DC 2007
<RalphS> Alistair: without thinking specifically about SKOS, I did draw some pictures of what 'vocabularies' are; these might be useful input
guus: question about F2F - if people are interested, can organise social get together on sunday, that is an option. I'll include in logistics page.
guus: issue is drawing the pictures ... leave
until tomb's back
... aim to have first list of isssues to resolve at f2f
... issue 26 relationships between labels
... issue 35 on concept scheme containment
... these are two currently on our list.
... maybe best for one of us (me) to go through issues and propose a list.
tomb: support alistairs' "central issues" suggestion about issues to tackle first at f2f
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0164.html -> Alistair's SKOS central issues email
antoine: alistair raised two issues about semantics of labels, 32 is also involved, wanted to raise this as possibility
tomb: just talking about alistair's proposal
back in june to focus on 3 central issues - skos:Concept, labeling
properties, semantic relation properties. These three central ideas good way
to approach several other issues. Alistair proposed we approach all these
issues by looking at draft for SKOS semantics.
... so we could come up with a reading list, around discussion on these three
central ideas, look at them in light of draft semantics doc.
guus: nice if, for each issue, have separate issue owner who prepares discussion.
tomb: if first issue is 54 (concept semantics) ... any volunteers to shepherd discussion?
<RalphS> issue 54
<RalphS> all issues
tomb: notion of a skos:Concept, and any other related issues.
antoine: concept semantics, also related to problem of mixing with owl classes, so perhaps can volunteer?
<RalphS> issue 44; BroaderNarrowerSemantics
antoine: 44 is slightly different - broader/narrower semantics. heard someone discussing?
aliman: some discussion of transitivity?
antoine: 54 different to 44, so I volunteer for 54 but not 44.
tomb: issue 54 -> topic "SKOS Concept"
a.k.a. "Concept Semantics"
... owner Antoine
... issue 31 -> topic "Labeling Properties", owner Alistair
... leaves issue 44 -> topic "Broader Narrower Semantics" owner Sean
... on topic of drawing pictures, alistair has proposed some diagrams, anyone
else to take ownership?
sean: I raised question of drawing pictures, but don't want to take on too much ...
<Guus> I volunteer for ISSUE 26 LabelRelations
tomb: related to issue of semantic relation properties, figuring out where boundaries lie. Is there natural progression, draw picture before, during and after those three?
sean: draw picture before - rough idea of shared interpretation, so having as setting the scene would be useful. If do it after, discover we're talking about different things, could be awkward.
tomb: ideally progress on drawing pictures
before meeting, but ideally done f2f. propose we put that first in the
agenda, item on drawing the picture.
... see in IRC, Guus volunteers for issue 26 label relations
... so we have four topics, extract to draft agenda.
antoine: four topics, concept scheme containment dropped from discussion on purpose?
tomb: not dropped on purpose. fit into existing topics?
antoine: I guess no.
sean: containment partially addressed by drawing the picture notion. e.g. do you consider relationships to be part of concept scheme, or part of terms ... questions teased out when thinking of the model.
tomb: if we address drawing the picture and
issue 36 as first part of meeting at same time, still need topic leader
... alistair, antoine, sean, guus have volunteered. no volunteers. put in
placeholder, grouping issue 36 together with drawing the picture, for now.
hope to come up with volunteer.
elisa: happy to help with drawing pictures,
maybe need some help ...
... need some guidance to get it right. don't have budget to come to
amsterdam, but can be on the phone.
sean: have looked today at references jon and antoine had pointed to on zthes and bs8273, found those useful, could already see differences between them, useful already.
antoine: can i ask about bs 8723, seemed relevant, actually some UML diagrams already available?
elisa: i did attend with jon and clay the open
forum meeting in NY in June, i know some people from work at OMG, so if we
need contact folks on ISO side, know people. there is work on FBER? at OMG,
representation of semantics for business rules, also have some pictures, done
work with ISO 1087 terminology for vocabulary work, general vocabulary terms,
access to that and folks on ISO...
... committee who developed it. Clay and ed know those people, Jon knows some
people.
... some of them have worked with NCI, so Daniel probably knows. Lots of
people could help, need focus. Have access to this, hopefully helpful.
tomb: try to go through discussion of SKOS
today? elisa asked time for VM.
... suggest we go through actions ..
<scribe> ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about the issue of containment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]
<scribe> ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04]. [CONTINUES]
<scribe> ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]
<scribe> ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]
<RalphS> Vocabulary Management wiki draft [last edited 2007-08-21 05:40:02 by ElisaKendal]
elisa: i've been looking at wiki, talking with
some people, preparation for meeting on ontologies for US intelligence
community, interest in VM, re-use of ontologies in public domain. Fits nicely
with what we want to do here, requirements are smaller.
... have revised some things from wiki, front matter. section using URIs for
naming ... things you would anticipate, pointing to recipes document (schemes
people use for developing URI schemes), or relative to setting up policies
for managing URIs, stating policies etc.
... in that first para, have taken as far as I can without further input from
others
... ask for few key people to read that section, number 1 under principles of
good practice, give some examples
... have captured link to recipes, choosing namespaces. don't have examples
around ownership of URI spaces, domain registration; good practices for
persisting URIs - daniel and/or tom - on policies of delegating use of URIs
in collection environment, where different people developing different
vocabs, link to bioportal.
... feedback on first section, tom or daniel? to write something and finish
first para
tomb: write to the list, summarising input needed. then get others. i'll be at DC 2007 next week, so if have description of where you want to take next ...
elisa: will send that out, may ask for input on
following sections as well. think second & third topics, documentation -
DC is good example; maintenance policies, DC and FOAF or broader collection
e.g. bioportal, both are relevant. try to send broader email asking for
input.
... shouldn't take a lot of time.
<scribe> ACTION: elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action06]
elisa: feel free to edit, contribute especially in sections i highlight.
<RalphS> Paper: URI Identity Management for Semantic Web Data Integration and Linkage
tomb: i put link into IRC, document called cool
URIs... doc has been reviewed by TAG, is now in SWEO, they are looking at
possibliity of publishing as a W3C note
... wanted to suggest we review that doc as well, in context of f2f
meeting.
... put VM on agenda?
elisa: yes, prefer end of the day. lots of SKOS f2f work which needs to be done, so ...
<RalphS> HCLSIG BioRDF subgroup task on URI Best Practices
guus: end of first day, could schedule last session on monday 8, 4-5:30 still early for you?
<edsu> tomb: there's also by the same authors http://sites.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/suhl/bizer/pub/drafts/LinkedDataTutorial/
tomb: if you could take SWEO doc under review,
see how it overlaps or relates to what we want to do
... there have been comment on that doc from TAG, already incorporated do at
advanced stage. question of scope w.r.t. doc we want to write.
ralph: also, HCLSIG has a task working on URI
best practices in healthcare area, would expect this WG would be formally
asked for input on that.
... clearly active area, lots of things been written.
daniel: should reach out to them?
... i joined some of there telcons, so happy to approach.
ralph: not sure if editor's draft wiki page, if
they've yet asked for input?
... good to identify someone as liaison
daniel: happy to liase
ralph: LSIG will publish IG note, expect us to be asked for review before publish
tomb: good to have at end of day (8 oct) discussion of VM issues, looking at various drafts being produced
<RalphS> F2F registration (October 8-9)
tomb: straightforward task of leading a discussion, any volunteer? 2 or 3 papers on this, including our own VM draft, elisa there remotely but probably hard to lead remotely, so good to have someone in WG who is willing to lead discussion locally & help elisa participate remotely.
ralph: I can do that.
tomb: put this on agenda?
... for f2f.
... would need critical mass of people willing to prepare that. leave a
question mark.
ralph: I missed last weeks rdfa call, so don't
know if TF has considered question of f2f agenda.
... given that several TF members are in europe, steve p in amsterdam ...
<RalphS> 16 Aug RDFa TF telecon
<scribe> ACTION: ralph to raise RDFa on f2f agenda question in RDFa telcon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action07]
tomb: AOB? adjourned.