See also: IRC log, previous 2007-07-26
<mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas
<ShaneM> might be a couple of minutes late on the phone
ok - anyway great to have you here!
<RalphS> previous 2007-07-26
Ben: Did a lot last week - now TC
-> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary
<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben writeup a summary of this discussion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [DONE]
<benadida> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0209.html
<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [CONTINUES]
<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]
<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10] [CONTINUES]
<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content after October [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]
<RalphS> scribenick: ralphs
<mhausenblas> TC
Michael: we've already reviewed 1 through 18
Ben: I can volunteer to look over the cases to see if we have invalidated any with our recent decisions
Michael: any such cases are either 'on hold' or should be removed
test case 0019
@about for subject
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0019 test 19
proposed to accept 19
resolved to accept 19
test case 0020 Inheriting @about for subject
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0020 test 20
Michael: two nested spans
resolved to accept 20
test case 0021 Subject inheritance with no @about
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0021 test 21
Michael: the semantics now look strange to me
Ben: looks good to me; creator is specified in the correct direction
resolved to accept 21
test case 0022 meta with parent @id
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0022 test 22
Ben: given that we're not including META in body in XHTML 1, we should reject this test
resolved to reject 22
test case 0023 Ignore @id in non-parent ancestor
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0023 test 23
Michael: this test now tests
another useful feature
... we could rename it to 'test that @id does not generate
subjects'
Ben: yes, this recent decision does require some implementation changes. I have code for those edge cases, though we've not seen those edge cases in practice
resolved to accept 23 with a renaming
<benadida> <div id="photo1"> <span class="attribution-line">this photo was taken by <span property="dc:creator">Mark Birbeck</span> </span> </div>
Ben: formerly this test demonstrated that 'photo1' was not inherited. Now the same test shows that @id never triggers a triple
test case 0024 Ignore @id for non-meta and non-link
Michael: this test should be rejected as redundant
Ben: yes, effectively merged with test 23
resolved to merge 24 into 23
Michael: I'd prefer to just reject rather than merge
resolved to drop 24; it does not test anything new
test case 0025 @id for object
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0025 test 25
<benadida> <span rel="dc:creator" id="me"> <span property="foaf:name">Ben Adida</span>, <a rel="foaf:mbox" href="mailto:ben@adida.net">ben@adida.net</a>. </span>
<benadida> <span rel="dc:creator" id="me">
Ben: this test is "interestingly" controversial
<benadida> <> dc:creator <#me> .
Ben: I interpreted this as
creating striping (or 'chaining' as Mark has called it)
... that's what test 25 was meant to test
... one of our non-binding resolutions from last week was to
not consider @id
... so with that in mind, we should reject this test
<mhausenblas> Glossary in -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/
Michael: I'm trying to put together a glossary in the umbrella document
<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-syntax-grammar/
Michael: I found the striping
idea very confusing
... I recommend that the term 'striping' be better-defined or
changed to 'chaining'
Ben: I'm happy to change the word
to 'chaining' instead
... test 25 was my old idea of how the markup should work, now
we're using @href instead
Michael: rather than drop the test, let's rewrite it to use @href
Shane: this is a pretty arcane level of RDF
Ben: last week's discussion was about the use of @id to do chaining. Mark was opposed to that
Shane: I don't much care about this notion of chaining
Ben: the intent is to be able to describe intermediate resources
Shane: that description makes a lot more sense
Ben: the concept of 'chaining' is
about defining an intermediate resource
... e.g. a music album with a musician who has a name
... the question is what XML attribute triggers this
object/subject switch
... so test 25 should confirm our decision on which attribute
(now @resource) triggers the object/subject switch
... foaf:mbox could be dropped from this test to simplify it as
a chaining test
... the foaf:mbox adds a second level of chaining
<mhausenblas> This paper was written by
<mhausenblas> <span rel="dc:creator" resource="#me">
<mhausenblas> <span property="foaf:name">Ben Adida</span>.
<mhausenblas> </span>
Ben: yes, that's the simple example
resolved to accept test 25, rewritten, and renamed to 'simple chaining example'
<benadida> <span rel="dc:creator">
Ben: add ^ to the test for a slightly bigger example
Michael: I'd rather create a new, separate test -- call it test 33
Ben: 33 should use @rel without @resource
<mhausenblas> ... and producing the same SPARQL ask as TC25
<mhausenblas> ... with a bNode instead of #me
<Simone> Simone: phone is bad :( so TC are ok for me
test case 0026 @content
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0026 test 26
Michael: but the span has no content
Ben: so it's a empty literal
<benadida> <span about="http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/" property="dc:creator" content="Mark Birbeck"> </span>
<mhausenblas> <span about="http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/" property="dc:creator" content="Mark Birbeck" />
Michael: from an XML viewpoint, 26 and 27 as written are not very different
Ben: right, we're not testing XML here. It would be OK to change 26 to be a self-closed element
Shane: I think they're both
interesting test cases; they'd really test the DOM parser
... but I don't think self-closing SPANs work, say, in Internet
Explorer
Ben: 26 is worthwhile as a self-closed element and if IE has trouble, that's good to know
resolved to accept 26, re-written as a self-closed element
<scribe> ACTION: Michael test how <SPAN /> behaves in Internet Explorer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
Ben: test 27 is the same as 26 but has content in the span
resolved to accept 27
test case 0028 @xml:lang and @datatype
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0028 test 28
Ben: this tests the affect of
xml:lang on the triple
... test 28 looks OK to me
<benadida> ACTION: Ben to work through xml:lang issue with Ivan [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
Ben: I need to followup with Ivan on the behavior of xml:lang
Michael: I think Karl's message 0198 may resolve this
Ben: ok, but I want the Task Force to review it
<benadida> ACTION: Michael to email individual emails to resolve TCs 29-33 (TC 28 to be resolved post xml:lang discussion) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
<scribe> scribenick: mhausenblas
Ben: We agreed last time to use XHTML XXX
Shane: Currently no contact to
Steven
... he has the edit token
[Steven is on holiday]
Ben: We have an array of changes (chaining, no @id, etc.)
Ralph: He did no significant
changes; should be back on 13 Aug
... Does Steven work offline?
<benadida> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/syntax/
Shane: Give me a correct version,
I'll take care for the conversion
... may take me some couple of an hour
Ben: Not time-frozen version, but the actual one
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/syntax/Overview.xml
Ben: Pls keep me in the
loop
... as Mark and Steven are on holiday
... we might need a separate chat
<RalphS> Shane: the XHTML2 WG has a separate content management system not on w3.org
Shane: There is a separate access control/system we work on
<RalphS> Ralph: that's too bad, but if the work is getting done then ok
Ben: Have to look at the
Primer
... and update it according to the newest development
<RalphS> Shane: the intention is still to keep the syntax document as a stand-alone document
-> http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations
<benadida> ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr and post their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
<ShaneM> question: does syntax document become rec-track? I can't remember
<ShaneM> Ben says yes.
<ShaneM> Note that there is already a separate xhtml-rdfa document that does a similar thing, but without all the syntax parsing rules.
Ralph: TomB had the question regarding reck-track
<Simone> Simone: I'm testing Js implementation and works great, for XSL implementation I've load a parser with Fabien's XSL but my Sablotron has problem, so also Monkey RDFa (a PHP parser with n3 output) works good
<Simone> Simone: So on W3C XSL servlet is ok, we may ask to get an RDFa extractor service?
<RalphS> Michael: will we ever declare the test cases frozen?
<RalphS> Ralph: as we're not doing conformance test, I suggest we leave ourselves the option to add a test whenever we reach a decision about an open question
<RalphS> Ben: it would be nice to be able to add a test without having to take [the test case] document back to Last Call
<RalphS> ... for now, it's good that our strategy be to act as if the test cases were Rec Track
<RalphS> Ben: I'll be running in-between meetings next week, may have difficulty making a call