14:51:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:51:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-forms-irc
14:51:34 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make log public
14:51:47 <John_Boyer> Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Telecon
14:51:56 <John_Boyer> Chair: John
14:53:35 <John_Boyer> Regrets: Leigh, Charlie, Raman, Keith, Ulrich, Joern, Rafael
14:55:16 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Jul/0006.html
14:55:22 <John_Boyer> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Jul/0006.html
14:55:56 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
14:57:13 <Roger> Roger has joined #forms
14:58:55 <Roger> zakim, code?
14:58:55 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Roger
15:00:25 <lars> lars has joined #forms
15:01:22 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()11:00AM has now started
15:01:28 <Zakim> +??P1
15:01:44 <lars> zakim, I am ?P1
15:01:44 <Zakim> sorry, lars, I do not see a party named '?P1'
15:01:50 <lars> zakim, I am ??P1
15:01:50 <Zakim> +lars; got it
15:01:53 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:01:58 <Nick> Nick has joined #Forms
15:02:25 <Nick> sorry but I'm currently in another meeting and won't be able to be on time for the call
15:02:42 <Nick> I'll join in about 15-30 minutes
15:02:47 <Zakim> +??P2
15:02:50 <Zakim> -lars
15:02:51 <Zakim> +lars
15:02:59 <Roger> zakim, p2 is roger
15:02:59 <Zakim> sorry, Roger, I do not recognize a party named 'p2'
15:03:14 <Roger> zakim, ??P2 is perhaps Roger
15:03:14 <Zakim> +Roger?; got it
15:03:23 <Zakim> +John_Boyer
15:04:01 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:04:01 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:04:02 <Zakim> +Steven
15:04:14 <Zakim> +??P3
15:04:34 <Roger> Steven, there is an error in the email you sent about the f2f in Madrid
15:04:34 <ebruchez> zakim, ??P3 is ebruchez
15:04:34 <Zakim> +ebruchez; got it
15:05:07 <Schnitz> Schnitz has joined #forms
15:05:09 <Schnitz> zakim, code?
15:05:12 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Schnitz
15:05:28 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32219/xformssummer07/
15:05:33 <Zakim> +??P5
15:05:40 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34637/ftfsept2007/
15:05:42 <Schnitz> zakim, ??p5 is me
15:05:42 <Zakim> +Schnitz; got it
15:05:46 <Schnitz> zakim, mute me
15:05:46 <Zakim> Schnitz should now be muted
15:05:53 <Schnitz> brb
15:06:45 <John_Boyer> Steven, ruff :-)
15:07:22 <Schnitz> back
15:07:46 <John_Boyer> Scribe: lars
15:08:13 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:08:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:09:23 <lars> topic: coming calls
15:09:37 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32219/xformssummer07/
15:09:49 <lars> John_Boyer: url for questinaire is above... everyone, please fill it out
15:10:05 <lars> topic: next  f2f
15:10:08 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34637/ftfsept2007/
15:10:09 <Steven> s/questinaire/questionnaire/
15:10:39 <lars> Steven: roger, can you send the details for the f2f?
15:11:06 <lars> ... lots of people will be away in august, so would be good to have the page up early
15:11:15 <lars> Roger: rafael will send them along
15:11:30 <lars> topic: xforms conference/evening at xml conference
15:11:34 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Jun/0099.html
15:11:40 <lars> John_Boyer: posted list of questions in email
15:11:55 <John_Boyer> Timeblock will be 7:30 - 9:30
15:11:57 <lars> ... since then I learned that our time slot will be 7:30-9:30
15:12:30 <ebruchez> Roger: are you close from the MAD airport?
15:13:13 <Roger> It depends, 50 Km
15:13:21 <John_Boyer> Sorry, that link should be http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Jun/0108.html
15:13:41 <Steven> Steven has left #forms
15:13:50 <lars> ... conference organiter already replied
15:14:05 <Steven> Steven has joined #forms
15:14:12 <lars> ... he said we have only two houres because we have to go after the reception
15:14:14 <ebruchez> Thanks, not that close then ;-)
15:14:44 <lars> .. otherwise we wouldn't get enough attendance
15:14:57 <lars> ... best we can do is 3 talks, 15 minutes each
15:15:04 <lars> ... then a 30 minute address
15:15:14 <lars> ... and another 3 talks at 15 minutes
15:15:28 <lars> ... what do others think?
15:15:43 <Schnitz> zakim, unmute me
15:15:43 <Zakim> Schnitz should no longer be muted
15:15:45 <lars> ... or should be focus on fewer longer talks
15:16:03 <lars> ... or should we dispense of the keynote idea and do 6 20 minute talks
15:16:31 <lars> ... erik, I think shorter talks are a good idea
15:16:39 <lars> errr
15:16:43 <lars> erik: I think shorter talks are a good idea
15:16:55 <lars> ... depends on the speaker though
15:18:22 <lars> Schnitz: I think 20 minutes would be good to have questions and discussions
15:18:43 <Zakim> + +0208761aaaa
15:18:46 <lars> ... but then we'd need to drop the keynote
15:18:49 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aaaa
15:18:49 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
15:18:51 <lars> ... so I'll take this back
15:19:08 <lars> John_Boyer: do we want to do a call for papers
15:19:19 <lars> ... or shall we just invite people
15:19:26 <lars> Steven: lets do that
15:20:00 <lars> John_Boyer: conference chair thought we were proposing session and wanted to know about session speakers
15:20:18 <lars> ... so we should get an idea about who the people are going to be
15:20:29 <lars> ... should we start with WG members?
15:20:40 <lars> ... maybe send around an email
15:21:18 <lars> Schnitz: when there are more then six volunteers, we should debate who speaks rather then select randomly
15:21:23 <lars> s/then/than
15:21:47 <lars> John_Boyer: should we do a questionaire?
15:21:50 <lars> Steven: email is enough
15:22:56 <lars> mark: it might be worth to see what people are up to that has coherence with what we are doing
15:23:11 <lars> ... showing how it runs everywhere
15:23:33 <lars> ... would underline our point
15:24:20 <lars> John_Boyer: variety would be good
15:24:45 <lars> ... I'd like to show a runtime, but also would like to show a design-time
15:25:39 <lars> mark: what about short sections with back-to-back demos
15:26:07 <lars> ... similar to the lightning talks at xtech
15:26:24 <lars> ebruchez: it was hard to do but the audience got a lot out of it
15:26:56 <lars> Steven: people at this conference are going to be big fans, as this is an XML conference
15:27:31 <lars> ... demonstrations and not being afraid of talking about XML will be just great
15:27:56 <lars> Schnitz: we are trying to have this "red line" connecting the talks
15:28:12 <lars> ... when we open this up to www-forms, we might not be able to maintain that
15:28:30 <lars> ... which might be a good thing, as it gets more heterogenous
15:28:54 <lars> mark: maybe not be so restrictive, but maybe just give it a title before we send out an email
15:29:09 <lars> ... "XML ent to end"
15:29:14 <lars> s/ent/end
15:29:36 <lars> John_Boyer: more like "XForms: XML end-to-end"
15:29:52 <lars> ... we can get away with that at an XML conference ;)
15:30:11 <lars> Schnitz: that's cool, lets see what people do with that
15:30:21 <lars> John_Boyer: public-forms or www-forms
15:30:26 <lars> Schnitz: the latter
15:30:50 <lars> Steven: two week s would be a good timeframe
15:30:56 <lars> ... ask for abstracts
15:31:13 <lars> John_Boyer: final question around keynore
15:31:20 <lars> ... is (a) there is a keynote
15:31:36 <lars> ... (b) how do we select the speaker
15:31:55 <lars> s/is (a/if (a
15:32:31 <lars> mark: don't think we need a keynote and rather keep it light and show a lot of stuff
15:32:40 <lars> ... keeping it "hands on"
15:33:00 <lars> John_Boyer: downside of not having keynote is that the right keynopte speaker would drive up attendance
15:33:07 <lars> ... upside is we have more room for talks
15:33:14 <lars> mark: who were you thinking of
15:33:44 <Roger> s/keynopte/keynote
15:33:50 <lars> John_Boyer: I was at XML2006 and was suprised to see the effect Michael Kay had 
15:34:15 <lars> Schnitz: I think there is some merit in that
15:34:26 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:34:35 <Nick> zakim, mute me
15:34:35 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:34:49 <lars> ebruchez: john, do you know whether michael kay would talk about xforms at all
15:35:20 <lars> Schnitz: Kurt Cagl would also be a great choice in my opinion
15:36:02 <lars> John_Boyer: at XML2006, Kay did a lot of XForms stuff in his talk
15:36:27 <lars> mark: to get the best of both world... I would hope that Kurt would do a talk anyway
15:36:46 <lars> ... John might approach Michael and see how that works out
15:38:04 <lars> Schnitz: I would hope that Michael Kay could also put the topic in a broader context
15:38:21 <lars> ... CUrt Cagl would have a lot to say about that too
15:38:32 <lars> ... and a keynote would be a better place for that
15:39:06 <lars> ... not only technology, but also about the market for XForms in general
15:43:04 <lars> topic: forms joint task force
15:43:18 <lars> John_Boyer: anyone thinking about participating in that
15:43:28 <lars> Schnitz: has it been kicked off yet?
15:43:55 <lars> John_Boyer: next step is to get 3 memebers from each WG 
15:44:11 <lars> Schnitz: I'll join
15:46:52 <lars> ^w^w^w
15:47:03 <lars> ;)
15:47:51 <lars> John_Boyer: I think our side of the task force should work on xforms simplification
15:48:16 <lars> Steven: Roland joined me as co-chair of the XHTML2 WG
15:48:30 <lars> topic: action item list
15:48:33 <Nick> zakim, umute me
15:48:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'umute me', Nick
15:48:46 <Nick> zakim, unmute me
15:48:46 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should no longer be muted
15:49:43 <lars> nick: I have to do some catching up on the list
15:49:58 <Nick> zakim, mute me
15:49:58 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:50:07 <lars> John_Boyer: everyone look at your action items and try to pick one off this week
15:50:31 <Schnitz> zakim, mute me
15:50:31 <Zakim> Schnitz should now be muted
15:53:29 <lars> topic: last call items
15:53:31 <John_Boyer> http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/Types?id=97;user=guest;statetype=4;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1
15:53:48 <lars> John_Boyer: that's issue #97
15:54:03 <lars> ... seems to call for addtion of examples about invalid email addresses
15:54:14 <lars> ... this one looks more like anyURI
15:54:22 <Schnitz> zakim, unmute me
15:54:22 <Zakim> Schnitz should no longer be muted
15:54:27 <lars> ... can email addresses actually not contain a ':'?
15:55:01 <Nick> yes
15:55:25 <lars> ... we have a reg-ex for that
15:55:58 <lars> Steven: I asked I18N group but haven't heard back yet
15:56:38 <lars> John_Boyer: at f2f we discussed something like "any charcter but @" '@' "any charcter but @"
15:56:48 <lars> Schnitz: I don't think we should define that
15:57:00 <lars> ... we should reference it from some other source
15:57:05 <ebruchez> agreed
15:57:36 <lars> ... ask Martin for reference
15:57:46 <lars> ... but we shouldn't define this on our own
15:58:14 <lars> ACTION: John_Boyer to add example
15:58:29 <lars> John_Boyer: next issue is #64
15:59:13 <lars> Steven: a good example - or two
15:59:50 <lars> John_Boyer: next issue is #66
16:00:31 <lars> ... it says we don't say what the range of the random function is
16:00:43 <Nick> Email Address Internationalization : http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/eai-charter.html
16:01:18 <lars> Steven: should be 0 <= rnd < 1
16:01:37 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:01:39 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
16:01:40 <Zakim> -Steven
16:01:40 <Zakim> -Roger?
16:01:44 <Zakim> -Schnitz
16:01:45 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:01:46 <lars> ACTION: John_Boyer to fix random function definition
16:01:47 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
16:02:40 <lars> s/0 <= rnd < 1/random >= 0 && random < 1
16:02:44 <John_Boyer> s/John_Boyer to add example/John_Boyer to add example of invalid email address
16:03:05 <John_Boyer> Action: John_Boyer to add example of valid power() function result, e.g. power(2, 3) returning 8
16:03:10 <lars> yeah, a bit of context is better
16:03:14 <John_Boyer> :-)
16:03:46 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
16:03:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see lars
16:03:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see Steven, Nick, ebruchez, lars, Roger, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, markbirbeck
16:03:55 <Zakim> -lars
16:03:57 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()11:00AM has ended
16:03:58 <Zakim> Attendees were lars, Roger?, John_Boyer, Steven, ebruchez, Schnitz, +0208761aaaa, markbirbeck, Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:04:03 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
16:04:10 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, bye
16:04:10 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-forms-actions.rdf :
16:04:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John_Boyer to add example [1]
16:04:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-forms-irc#T15-58-14
16:04:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John_Boyer to fix random function definition [2]
16:04:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-forms-irc#T16-01-46
16:04:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John_Boyer to add example of valid power() function result, e.g. power(2, 3) returning 8 [3]
16:04:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-forms-irc#T16-03-05