IRC log of swd on 2007-06-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:52:11 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #swd
- 14:52:11 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-irc
- 14:52:17 [TomB]
- rrsagent, bookmark
- 14:52:17 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-irc#T14-52-17
- 14:52:22 [TomB]
- zakim, this will be swd
- 14:52:22 [Zakim]
- ok, TomB; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
- 14:52:27 [TomB]
- Meeting: SWD WG
- 14:52:30 [TomB]
- Chair: Tom
- 14:53:13 [TomB]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0084.html
- 14:53:35 [TomB]
- Previous: http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html
- 14:54:03 [TomB]
- Regrets: Ralph, Daniel, Justin
- 14:54:17 [TomB]
- rrsagent, please make record public
- 14:54:25 [Guus]
- Guus has joined #swd
- 14:54:50 [Guus]
- [i'm stuck here in a review meeting, with no access to a phone]
- 14:55:20 [Zakim]
- SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
- 14:55:26 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 14:56:13 [Zakim]
- +??P9
- 14:56:14 [edsu2]
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- 14:56:38 [berrueta]
- zakim, ??P9 is me
- 14:56:38 [Zakim]
- +berrueta; got it
- 14:56:51 [TomB]
- Scribe: berrueta
- 14:56:56 [TomB]
- scribenick: berrueta
- 14:58:41 [TomB]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 14:58:41 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see TomB, berrueta
- 14:59:34 [vit]
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- 15:00:25 [Zakim]
- +[LC]
- 15:00:53 [aliman]
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- 15:01:01 [Antoine]
- Antoine has joined #swd
- 15:01:20 [edsu]
- do the caps matter at all? Edsu vs edsu?
- 15:01:37 [TomB]
- edsu - I have no idea :-)
- 15:01:45 [edsu]
- heheh
- 15:01:46 [Zakim]
- +??P22
- 15:01:58 [Zakim]
- +??P27
- 15:02:27 [Zakim]
- +Antoine_Isaac
- 15:03:08 [aliman]
- q+ to ask for last minute addition to agenda re SKOS and POWDER linkage
- 15:03:18 [TomB]
- ack aliman
- 15:03:18 [Zakim]
- aliman, you wanted to ask for last minute addition to agenda re SKOS and POWDER linkage
- 15:03:32 [Elisa]
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- 15:03:54 [seanb]
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- 15:04:15 [Zakim]
- +??P26
- 15:04:24 [kjetilk]
- Zakim, ??P26 is me
- 15:04:24 [Zakim]
- +kjetilk; got it
- 15:04:30 [Zakim]
- +Elisa_Kendall
- 15:05:00 [Zakim]
- +??P31
- 15:05:22 [berrueta]
- tomb: accept adding a new item to the agenda as requested by alistair
- 15:05:25 [berrueta]
- topic: admin
- 15:05:40 [berrueta]
- PROPOSED to accept minutes of 12 June telecon: http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html
- 15:05:44 [JonP]
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- 15:05:55 [berrueta]
- RESOLVED: accepted minutes of 12 June
- 15:06:10 [berrueta]
- next telecon: 26 June
- 15:06:19 [berrueta]
- topic: skos
- 15:06:20 [Zakim]
- +Ben_Adida
- 15:06:44 [berrueta]
- ACTION: Ralph to update SKOS pages to point to UCR [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action01]
- 15:07:08 [berrueta]
- --continues
- 15:07:17 [Zakim]
- +Jon_Phipps
- 15:07:24 [Zakim]
- + +1.267.391.aaaa
- 15:07:54 [JonP]
- zakim, Jon_Phipps is me
- 15:07:54 [Zakim]
- +JonP; got it
- 15:08:20 [berrueta]
- aliman: wording looks fine
- 15:08:52 [berrueta]
- Antoine: sandbox is dead, some issues that were not fine worded might now dissapear
- 15:09:23 [berrueta]
- ACTION: Alistair to fix wording on skos issues sandbox [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action03]
- 15:09:25 [berrueta]
- --done
- 15:09:31 [berrueta]
- ACTION: Jon and Alistair: Move SKOS issues over from Sandbox to Tracker on an ongoing basis [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-swd-minutes.html#action10]
- 15:09:32 [berrueta]
- --done
- 15:10:38 [berrueta]
- TomB: asks about the test cases. Any progress?
- 15:11:43 [berrueta]
- aliman: suggest to go as per-issue basis
- 15:12:02 [berrueta]
- ... unsure about how the test cases will look like
- 15:12:51 [berrueta]
- ... there will be some entailment TC for SKOS like in OWL, but also other TC
- 15:13:13 [berrueta]
- ... we might open a new document
- 15:13:55 [GuusS]
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- 15:14:21 [berrueta]
- seanb: it will be useful for us to have a central document that talks about how SKOS TC should be like
- 15:14:36 [GuusS]
- +1
- 15:15:10 [berrueta]
- aliman: suggest to create a wiki that might serve as template for TC
- 15:15:18 [TomB]
- +1 to Alistair's idea of setting up wiki draft with entailment test cases, etc
- 15:15:36 [berrueta]
- TomB: volunteers to create this template?
- 15:15:54 [berrueta]
- ... in the wiki
- 15:17:33 [berrueta]
- aliman describes the procedure to create a wiki template
- 15:17:56 [berrueta]
- ACTION: seanb to create the template for TC in the wiki
- 15:18:06 [aliman]
- SKOS Semantics -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Semantics
- 15:18:11 [berrueta]
- ACTION: Alistair will look at raising the examples from the issues to test cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-swd-minutes.html#action06]
- 15:18:14 [berrueta]
- --done
- 15:18:35 [berrueta]
- ACTION: Guus to update proposal with issue of single vs. multiple labels for terms [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action09]
- 15:18:36 [berrueta]
- --done
- 15:18:39 [aliman]
- Template used for some sub-pages in SKOS Semantics -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosModuleTemplate
- 15:18:47 [berrueta]
- ACTION: Alistair to provide details of alternative proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action10]
- 15:18:48 [berrueta]
- --done
- 15:19:14 [berrueta]
- TomB: we have two alternative proposals on the table now
- 15:19:46 [aliman]
- http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosDesign/RelationshipsBetweenLabels
- 15:20:08 [GuusS]
- Guus: I have done a small user study to compare the usability of the two proposals for Issue 26, and will report on the results later this week
- 15:20:45 [berrueta]
- aliman presents the "Minimal label relation" proposal (Proposal four)
- 15:21:42 [berrueta]
- aliman: new class skos:LabelRelation, labels are represented as literals, LabelRelation glues them together
- 15:22:15 [berrueta]
- ... very similar to the 1st proposal, but slightly more general
- 15:22:39 [berrueta]
- ... allows relationships between any number of labels
- 15:24:16 [berrueta]
- ... (regarding proposal 3) i sent an email asking about the multiplicity of the relationship between Labels and literals
- 15:26:01 [berrueta]
- Antoine: i responded to alistair's mail, suggesting if two Labels have the same literal value, they should be the same
- 15:26:15 [GuusS]
- question for Alistair: how do you handle directed relations like acronymOf?
- 15:26:34 [GuusS]
- I guess via subproperties of labelRelated
- 15:26:39 [berrueta]
- aliman: trying to clarify when two SKOS labels are the same thing
- 15:27:12 [berrueta]
- aliman: to GuusS: yes
- 15:27:58 [berrueta]
- aliman: the proposal points that extensions of the vocabulary should be used
- 15:28:29 [berrueta]
- TomB: we should make progress on the mailing list
- 15:28:32 [Antoine]
- my answer to Alistair -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0064.html
- 15:28:44 [berrueta]
- ... and try to make a resolution for next week
- 15:28:54 [berrueta]
- ... move forward to issue 33
- 15:29:11 [berrueta]
- ACTION: Alistair to propose resolution for Issue-33 (minimal fix) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action12]
- 15:29:18 [berrueta]
- --done
- 15:29:24 [berrueta]
- ACTION: Alistair to propose minimal fix for resolution of issue 33 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-swd-minutes.html#action09]
- 15:29:26 [berrueta]
- --done
- 15:30:06 [berrueta]
- aliman: the content of this section reflects more or less the same as the original proposal
- 15:30:16 [aliman]
- http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Semantics/Grouping?action=recall&rev=4 -> section of SKOS semantics
- 15:31:07 [berrueta]
- aliman: in the original there were some detailed examples
- 15:31:18 [berrueta]
- ... but they should be moved into SKOS Primer
- 15:31:25 [berrueta]
- ... only minor examples in SKOS semantics
- 15:32:28 [berrueta]
- ... Antoine sent an email asking for clarification of some points
- 15:34:34 [berrueta]
- ... in general, it is out of scope for SKOS to provide all the information required to layout a systematic display of the thesaurus
- 15:34:55 [berrueta]
- ... there is a default way to build a systematic display based on the SKOS data
- 15:35:32 [berrueta]
- ... the same question has appeared in a different WG
- 15:35:56 [berrueta]
- TomB: agree that SKOS should not try to provide all this information
- 15:37:22 [berrueta]
- ... UCR might include a reference to this design decission
- 15:38:06 [berrueta]
- aliman: UCR should say that representing this information is out of scope
- 15:38:27 [TomB]
- s/this information/presentational information/
- 15:38:33 [berrueta]
- ... but the primer might include some hints
- 15:38:34 [aliman]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0061.html -> Alistair's statement about presentational information and SKOS scope
- 15:39:54 [berrueta]
- aliman: the data in SKOS is enough to generate an alphabetical display, for instance
- 15:40:16 [berrueta]
- ... but when it comes to systematical/hierarchical display, it might be not enough
- 15:40:22 [berrueta]
- ... you might need some extra data
- 15:40:47 [berrueta]
- ... but there is enough to create a default display
- 15:42:06 [berrueta]
- ... this might be a starting point to talk about what is presentational information and what is not
- 15:43:28 [berrueta]
- ... consider people by age; age ranges are captured in SKOS, but ordering is a presentational detail
- 15:44:58 [berrueta]
- Antoine: this relates with the usage of SKOS, not only the specification
- 15:45:45 [aliman]
- "schedule"
- 15:46:04 [berrueta]
- aliman: schedule describes the actual presentation
- 15:46:52 [berrueta]
- Antoine: please point at examples where this information cannot be represented in SKOS
- 15:47:18 [berrueta]
- ACTION: aliman to provide examples of cases where presentational information is required
- 15:47:46 [GuusS]
- [i'm still in a review meeting, have to drop off, sorry for missing the telecon]
- 15:47:53 [berrueta]
- TomB: new point in the agenda about POWDER
- 15:48:06 [berrueta]
- aliman: mail from Phil Archer about POWDER
- 15:48:17 [berrueta]
- ... POWDER is RDF vocabulary to represent content labels
- 15:48:35 [berrueta]
- ... talk about the dependency between SKOS and POWDER
- 15:48:51 [kjetilk]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jan/0069.html
- 15:48:52 [kjetilk]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0049.html
- 15:48:52 [kjetilk]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Apr/0015.html
- 15:49:11 [berrueta]
- kjetilk describes POWDER objectives
- 15:50:14 [berrueta]
- kjetilk: UI gives people the option to specify the predicate and the object
- 15:51:11 [berrueta]
- kjetilk: quite different uses
- 15:51:29 [berrueta]
- ... i need a single predicate that maps to SKOS
- 15:52:20 [aliman]
- skos:it/skos:as discussion
- 15:53:18 [berrueta]
- aliman: some time ago, during earlier dev. of SKOS
- 15:53:33 [berrueta]
- ... linking skos:Concepts to classes in an ontology
- 15:53:42 [berrueta]
- ... danbri proposed skos:it and skos:as
- 15:54:11 [berrueta]
- ... for instance, link a skos:Concept with a foaf:Person
- 15:54:53 [berrueta]
- ... we don't have this in our UCR
- 15:55:39 [berrueta]
- ... it is up to kjetilk to do something, we don't have anything on the table
- 15:56:23 [kjetilk]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jan/0069.html
- 15:56:51 [berrueta]
- TomB: doesn't look that we can do anything by this friday
- 15:57:17 [berrueta]
- aliman: this is one of several similar UC
- 15:57:47 [berrueta]
- ... this is close with the issue of interop with OWL
- 15:58:30 [berrueta]
- Antoine: is this related to the potential issue that i flagged this week?
- 15:58:37 [berrueta]
- ... daniel also referred to this problem
- 15:59:01 [berrueta]
- TomB suggests putting this into next week's agenda
- 15:59:23 [berrueta]
- TomB: somebody should summarize this in a mail to the list
- 15:59:32 [berrueta]
- ... any volunteeers?
- 15:59:44 [berrueta]
- Antoine: i volunteer
- 15:59:58 [berrueta]
- topic: recipes
- 16:00:04 [berrueta]
- ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09]
- 16:00:06 [berrueta]
- --continues
- 16:00:22 [berrueta]
- topic: vocabulary management
- 16:00:45 [berrueta]
- Elisa: i want to propose to talk about this next week
- 16:01:35 [berrueta]
- ... to discuss about issues with URIs, also in relation with danbri's mail
- 16:02:00 [berrueta]
- TomB: there is some contextual information in the recipes, but vocab. management document should take a broader view
- 16:02:30 [berrueta]
- ... not sure about how to put this in the agenda
- 16:03:05 [berrueta]
- ... its a rather difficult topic to explain, see the semantic-web mailing list recently
- 16:03:47 [berrueta]
- ... it would be difficult to make progress if we use the telecons for brainstorming
- 16:04:05 [berrueta]
- topic: RDFa
- 16:04:45 [berrueta]
- ben: remaining issues should be solved quickly, they are not controversial
- 16:04:50 [Zakim]
- -Clay
- 16:04:54 [Zakim]
- -Edsu
- 16:04:57 [Zakim]
- -Seanb
- 16:04:58 [Zakim]
- -Vit
- 16:04:59 [Zakim]
- -kjetilk
- 16:05:01 [Zakim]
- -Aliman
- 16:05:03 [Zakim]
- -Elisa_Kendall
- 16:05:05 [Zakim]
- -Ben_Adida
- 16:05:08 [TomB]
- zakim, list participants
- 16:05:08 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been TomB, berrueta, Edsu, Vit, Aliman, Antoine_Isaac, kjetilk, Elisa_Kendall, Seanb, Ben_Adida, +1.267.391.aaaa, Clay, JonP
- 16:05:09 [berrueta]
- TomB: adjourned
- 16:05:11 [Zakim]
- -JonP
- 16:05:18 [TomB]
- rrsagent, please draft minutes
- 16:05:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html TomB
- 16:05:30 [edsu]
- edsu has left #swd
- 16:06:02 [Zakim]
- -TomB
- 16:06:13 [Zakim]
- -Antoine_Isaac
- 16:06:19 [Antoine]
- Antoine has left #swd
- 16:06:30 [Zakim]
- -berrueta
- 16:06:31 [Zakim]
- SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
- 16:06:32 [Zakim]
- Attendees were TomB, berrueta, Edsu, Vit, Aliman, Antoine_Isaac, kjetilk, Elisa_Kendall, Seanb, Ben_Adida, +1.267.391.aaaa, Clay, JonP
- 16:58:20 [seanb]
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- 18:50:58 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #swd