10:56:35 RRSAgent has joined #xmlsec 10:56:35 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-xmlsec-irc 10:56:47 Zakim, this will be XMLSEC 10:56:47 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, jcc 11:11:19 tlr has joined #xmlsec 11:11:56 zakim, this will be xmlsec 11:11:56 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, tlr 11:47:43 zakim, this will be xmlsec 11:47:43 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, tlr 12:05:02 zakim, this will be xmlsec 12:05:02 ok, tlr; I see T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM scheduled to start in 55 minutes 12:13:51 jcc has joined #xmlsec 12:14:23 Zakim, this will be XMLSEC 12:14:23 ok, jcc; I see T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM scheduled to start in 46 minutes 12:14:34 hi Juan Carlos 12:15:04 Chair: Frederick Hirsch 12:15:19 Scribe: Juan Carlos Cruellas 12:19:30 PeterL has joined #xmlsec 12:19:42 RRSAgent, make log public 12:20:13 hi jcc, practising ;) 12:26:51 hallo Peter 12:32:45 jcc has joined #xmlsec 12:34:06 hallo thomas 12:36:26 Peter, ich habe gerade Deine Mail re Workshop-Hosting beantwortet 12:37:38 habs gesehen. JCC hat ja auch was angeboten. 12:38:00 I certainly must learn German ;-) 12:38:06 sorry 12:38:18 Peter had asked about specific requirements for the workshop, and I said I had just sent him e-mail. 12:38:26 He then said you had also offered hosting. 12:38:26 No problem... it is the natural way of comunicating among yourselves 12:38:26 sure juan carlos, then I'd learn more espagnol 12:39:02 ;-) 12:39:33 One question Thomas, is there any command to record that an action has been closed? 12:39:54 not at this point. 12:40:07 Just record ACTION-NNN closed, and Frederick or I need to do it through the Web interface. 12:40:46 I see... just wondering if there was some command for doing it automatically...thanks 12:42:40 Thomas, do you know if Frederick has uploaded the agenda of this meeting to the W3C server? 12:42:53 if so I would record the URL for the minutes... 12:43:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0025.html 12:43:20 it's just in the public mailing list archive 12:44:02 Ah! I see, when the scribe's instructions mention a URL to the agenda, in fact they mean to the email where the agenda was distributed... thanks 12:45:03 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0025.html 12:45:22 Meeting: XMLSEC 12:45:37 Chair: Frederick Hirsch 12:45:48 Scribe: Juan Carlos Cruellas 12:46:01 RRSAgent, make log public 12:48:01 jh has joined #xmlsec 12:48:43 zakim, who is here? 12:48:43 T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has not yet started, jh 12:48:44 On IRC I see jh, jcc, PeterL, tlr, RRSAgent, Zakim, klanz2, trackbot-ng 12:51:10 zakim, this will be xmlsecc 12:51:10 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, jh 12:51:15 zakim, this will be xmlsec 12:51:15 ok, jh; I see T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes 12:51:30 Meeting: XML Security Specifications Maintenance WG Conference Call 12:51:40 Chair: Frederick Hirsch 12:51:48 Scribe: Juan Carlos Cruellas 12:52:30 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0025.html 12:52:51 T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has now started 12:52:58 +Frederick_Hirsch 12:53:14 zakim, who is here+ 12:53:14 I don't understand 'who is here+', jh 12:53:19 zakim, who is here? 12:53:19 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch 12:53:21 On IRC I see jh, jcc, PeterL, tlr, RRSAgent, Zakim, klanz2, trackbot-ng 12:54:37 Regrets: Donald Eastlake, Gregory Berezowsky 12:54:48 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:54:48 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch 12:55:30 thomas, the command /me zakim, ??p9 is [handle] does not seem to work... I guess that I must substitute ?? by something? 12:55:31 rdm has joined #xmlsec 12:55:59 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:55:59 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch 12:56:06 EdS has joined #xmlsec 12:56:07 juan carlos, there is no unidentified party on the phone... 12:57:00 zakim, call thomas-781 12:57:00 ok, tlr; the call is being made 12:57:01 +Thomas 12:57:28 sean has joined #xmlsec 12:58:15 PHB has joined #xmlsec 12:58:17 +[IPcaller] 12:58:31 zakim, IPcaller is JuanCarlosCruellas 12:58:31 +JuanCarlosCruellas; got it 12:58:38 zakim, nick jcc is JuanCarlosCruellas 12:58:38 ok, tlr, I now associate jcc with JuanCarlosCruellas 12:58:52 + +1.781.442.aaaa 12:59:07 zakim, nick fjh is FrederickHirsch 12:59:07 ok, tlr, I now associate fjh with Frederick_Hirsch 12:59:21 zakim, aaaa is SeanMullen 12:59:21 +SeanMullen; got it 12:59:25 zakim, nick sean is SeanMullen 12:59:25 ok, tlr, I now associate sean with SeanMullen 12:59:55 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:59:55 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, Thomas, JuanCarlosCruellas, SeanMullen 13:00:04 hal has joined #xmlsec 13:00:11 + +1.650.380.aabb 13:00:20 I'm having trouble with my machine, I'll dial in ASAP 13:00:23 +EdSimon 13:00:26 + +1.443.695.aacc 13:00:42 zakim, aabb is GregWhitehead 13:00:42 +GregWhitehead; got it 13:00:56 zakim, aacc is RobMiller 13:00:56 +RobMiller; got it 13:00:59 zakim, who is here? 13:00:59 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, Thomas, JuanCarlosCruellas, SeanMullen, GregWhitehead, EdSimon, RobMiller 13:01:01 On IRC I see hal, PHB, sean, EdS, rdm, fjh, jcc, PeterL, tlr, RRSAgent, Zakim, klanz2, trackbot-ng 13:01:01 zakim, nick rdm is RobMiller 13:01:01 ok, tlr, I now associate rdm with RobMiller 13:01:09 +Hal_Lockhart 13:01:17 zakim, nick EdS is EdSimon 13:01:17 ok, tlr, I now associate EdS with EdSimon 13:01:22 zakim, nick hal is Hal_Lockhart 13:01:22 grw has joined #xmlsec 13:01:26 ok, tlr, I now associate hal with Hal_Lockhart 13:01:26 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:01:28 + +30281039aadd 13:01:36 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, Thomas, JuanCarlosCruellas, SeanMullen, GregWhitehead, EdSimon, RobMiller, Hal_Lockhart, +30281039aadd 13:01:39 zakim, what is the dial in 13:01:44 zakim, nick grw is GregWhitehead 13:01:46 zakim, code? 13:01:51 I don't understand 'what is the dial in', PHB 13:01:53 zakim, aadd is GilesHogben 13:01:57 ok, tlr, I now associate grw with GregWhitehead 13:01:59 the conference code is 965732 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), tlr 13:02:05 +GilesHogben; got it 13:02:11 rdm2 has joined #xmlsec 13:02:21 zakim, nick rdm2 is RobMiller 13:02:22 ok, tlr, I now associate rdm2 with RobMiller 13:02:34 zakim, who is here? 13:02:34 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, Thomas, JuanCarlosCruellas, SeanMullen, GregWhitehead, EdSimon, RobMiller, Hal_Lockhart, GilesHogben 13:02:37 On IRC I see rdm2, grw, hal, PHB, sean, EdS, rdm, fjh, jcc, PeterL, tlr, RRSAgent, Zakim, klanz2, trackbot-ng 13:02:39 + +1.781.306.aaee 13:02:43 ghogben3 has joined #xmlsec 13:02:49 - +1.781.306.aaee 13:03:10 OPIC: 1) Administrative: Scribe confirmation, Attendance, Agenda review (9:00 am Eastern) 13:03:17 +PHB 13:03:17 zakim, nick ghogben3 is GilesHogben 13:03:18 ok, tlr, I now associate ghogben3 with GilesHogben 13:03:32 Topic: Administrative 13:03:36 Scribe for next week: PHB 13:03:51 fjh: confirming next week scribe Phillp Hallman for the week after, not next week 13:03:52 Scribe for 29 May: Giles Hogben 13:03:58 s/Hallam/Hallam-Baker/ 13:04:12 fjh: asks Giles Hogben to do it for the week after 13:04:20 TOPIC: 1a) Regrets: Donald Eastlake, Gregory Berezowsky 13:04:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0025.html 13:04:43 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0025.html 13:04:49 TOPIC: 2) Review and Approval of WG minutes 13:05:04 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0012.html 13:05:08 (minutes from last week) 13:05:23 are posted changes to the canonicalizations. They were not in the minutes. 13:05:47 s/are posted/hal: there were/ 13:05:47 fjh: minutes approved 13:06:16 action: fjh to post the changes to canonicalization process 13:06:16 Sorry, couldn't find user - fjh 13:06:19 +??P20 13:06:58 ACTION: Frederick to post red-line link for C14N11 13:06:58 Created ACTION-25 - Post red-line link for C14N11 [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2007-05-22]. 13:07:15 zakim, who is here? 13:07:15 On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, Thomas, JuanCarlosCruellas, SeanMullen, GregWhitehead, EdSimon, RobMiller, Hal_Lockhart, GilesHogben, PHB, ??P20 13:07:17 On IRC I see ghogben3, rdm2, grw, hal, PHB, sean, EdS, rdm, fjh, jcc, PeterL, tlr, RRSAgent, Zakim, klanz2, trackbot-ng 13:07:45 My audio device has problems 13:07:52 yes 13:07:56 zakim, ??P20 is klanz2 13:07:56 +klanz2; got it 13:08:08 and the IRC runs via vpn on aother machine 13:08:31 resolution: minutes of May 2nd and 3rd face to face meeting were approved 13:09:25 zakim, where am i? 13:09:25 I don't understand your question, fjh. 13:09:30 zakim, bookmark? 13:09:30 I don't understand your question, tlr. 13:09:33 rrsagent, bookmark? 13:09:33 See http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-xmlsec-irc#T13-09-33 13:09:34 rrsagent, where am i? 13:09:34 See http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-xmlsec-irc#T13-09-34 13:09:46 TOPIC: 3) Future WG Meetings 13:09:59 fjh: will be out, Thomas will chair the two next meetings 13:10:19 ACTION-3: closed 13:10:28 zakim, unmute me 13:10:28 klanz2 was not muted, klanz2 13:11:03 ACTION-4: closed; fjh updated the homepage. 13:11:32 ACTION-5: open for finishing. 13:12:09 ACTION-6: open. Konrad will complete in the next week 13:12:23 ACTION-8: closed as part of the editorial update 13:12:28 zakim, mute me 13:12:28 klanz2 should now be muted 13:13:07 ACTION-9: closed. Sent email to the list 13:13:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0022.html 13:13:52 tlr: asks Sean to pass the link of the message 13:14:23 ACTION-12: open. fjh has been working on it...almost done 13:14:32 ACTION-13: closed 13:15:47 ACTION-15: closed; done it 2007-05-14 call. 13:15:56 q+ 13:16:23 the coordination group will take care of security issues 13:17:25 ... fjh: when a charter is created it should include security considerations and how this will be done... 13:17:35 s/the coord/fjh: the coord/ 13:17:42 s/... fjh: when/... when/ 13:17:45 fjh: ... and the coordination group would take care of this. 13:17:53 s/fjh: .../... / 13:17:58 q? 13:18:22 ed: should have permanent security group to review materials 13:18:27 hal: +1 to ed 13:18:50 ... also errata handling ... 13:18:50 hal: seconds the idea, and also to be in the position of receiving errata of security specifications 13:19:19 ed: the group should be the place where the policies and processes are reviewed 13:19:56 tlr: this is a useful proposal and this could be part of the outcome to be produced by the group 13:20:21 tlr: question to Frederick, what documentation? 13:20:53 what documentation should be managed? only minutes or others? 13:21:24 fjh: we should draft a note... 13:21:41 tlr: we could capture text from minutes and generate the note. 13:21:43 +??P27 13:21:58 zakim, ??P27 is peter_Lipp 13:21:58 +peter_Lipp; got it 13:22:34 fjh: the group should start indicating what the issues are and then we will receive indications of what to do. 13:23:01 ACTION: thomas to draft CG note draft for submission to XML CG - due 2007-06-20 13:23:01 Created ACTION-26 - draft CG note draft for submission to XML CG [on Thomas Roessler - due 2007-06-20]. 13:23:02 zakim, nick PeterL is peter_Lipp 13:23:02 ok, PeterL, I now associate you with peter_Lipp 13:23:48 ACTION-16: closed 13:23:58 ACTION-17: open 13:24:13 zakim, unmute me 13:24:13 klanz2 should no longer be muted 13:24:15 ACTION-18: open 13:24:22 ACTION-19: open 13:24:25 zakim, mute me 13:24:25 sorry, tlr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 13:24:27 ongoing 13:24:30 ACTION-20: done 13:24:30 zakim, mute thomas 13:24:30 Thomas should now be muted 13:24:46 zakim, mute me 13:24:46 klanz2 should now be muted 13:25:01 fjh: we will indicate when we can meet. 13:25:06 zakim, unmuteme 13:25:06 I don't understand 'unmuteme', tlr 13:25:13 zakim, unmute thomas 13:25:13 Thomas should no longer be muted 13:25:49 fjh: when we will know when we will meet in November plenary 13:26:03 tlr: in the next few months...+ 13:26:11 ACTION-21: closed 13:26:20 ACTION-22: open 13:27:02 ACTION-23: proposal for qnames. Frederick was not sure of the action on that issue 13:27:15 fjh: it is a timing issue .... 13:27:19 q+ 13:27:53 qnames should not be used as data 13:28:23 qnames are prefixed or unprefixed, this introduces some ambiguity 13:28:26 The prefix namespaces do not work within the data space 13:28:30 q+ 13:28:39 There is an AB finding on the topic 13:28:55 s/AB/TAG/ 13:29:41 qnames may be prefixed or unprefixed, and the issue is on prefixed qnames 13:29:43 EdSimon: Said qnames are prefixed or unprefixed; didn't talk about ambiguity. The concern is about prefixed qnames in data space. It's an issue I thought about during the last week WRT c14n 13:29:44 The point here was that there should be a note in the C18N section to the effect that prefixes will break, and protocols should avoid them per the TAG 13:29:58 hal: Don't agree that only prefixed names are a problem 13:30:08 s/C18N/C14N/ 13:30:28 fjh: does not think this affects canonicalization 13:30:41 s/does not think/asks whether/ 13:30:49 q+ to ask whether this is considered critical path for C14N 1.1 13:31:09 greg: treat as best practice 13:31:10 Greg: provide a best practice document 13:31:32 zakim, unmute me 13:31:32 klanz2 should no longer be muted 13:31:35 q+ 13:31:49 zakim, mute me 13:31:49 klanz2 should now be muted 13:32:02 ack tlr 13:32:02 tlr, you wanted to ask whether this is considered critical path for C14N 1.1 13:32:11 q - 13:32:37 q- 13:33:10 q+ 13:33:12 tlr: we should advice core group as soon as we can on the issues we identify 13:33:14 zakim, unmute me 13:33:14 klanz2 should no longer be muted 13:33:27 q+ 13:33:37 nah... we can always ask politely. 13:33:51 konrad suggests only formal objection possible now 13:34:04 zakim, mute me 13:34:04 klanz2 should now be muted 13:34:25 fjh, speaking as self: don't think we need to do more, rather do best practice approach 13:34:30 fjh: as Frederick, would prefer the best practice approahc 13:34:48 q? 13:34:51 EdSimon: proposed changes to c14n would need to be broader; rather thinking of C14N 2.0 13:34:51 ack klanz 13:34:52 ed: canonicalization is so broad that he is thinking in canonicalization 2.0 13:34:57 ... don't expect resolution near-term ... 13:34:58 ack Frederick_Hirsch 13:35:02 ack EdSimon 13:35:04 q? 13:35:04 zakim, mute e 13:35:05 EdSimon should now be muted 13:35:10 q+ to note that this sounds like a proposal for further work 13:35:14 zakim, mute me 13:35:14 klanz2 should now be muted 13:35:27 fjh: can we agree on that? 13:35:35 + +1.514.861.aaff 13:35:43 zakim, aaff is DonEastlake 13:35:43 +DonEastlake; got it 13:36:10 fjh: can we agree on the best practice issue? 13:36:14 q= 13:36:15 q? 13:36:26 q- 13:36:39 RESOLUTION: We are not going to bring qnames in content to XML Core, but rather feed that into best practices. 13:36:45 RESOLUTION: we are not going to bring the qname issue to the core group but be part of the best practices 13:36:59 s/RESOLUTION: We are not going to bring qnames in content to XML Core, but rather feed that into best practices.// 13:37:11 this is something that we must notice this issue... 13:37:24 phil 13:37:33 deastlak has joined #xmlsec 13:37:34 Ed: I strongly agree with Phill. 13:37:46 phil: sligthly more than best practices: something that has to be noted as property of the algorithm 13:37:53 q+ 13:37:57 q+ 13:37:58 phil: it is a consequence of the XML... 13:38:09 phil: we should provide more information ..... 13:38:18 q+ 13:38:26 fjh: is it possible to provide more text for CN14.1 13:38:28 q- 13:39:39 tlr: we need to coordinate with core as they have been waiting for us 13:39:59 greg: i would think that the note would be rather simple.... 13:40:30 greg: using qnames values in data then you must use the implicit namespace or the prefixes may not be captured 13:40:49 greg: just pointing what is not obviuos for all the people 13:41:11 +1 to greg 13:41:13 phil: best practices suggest that you have options 13:41:28 q+ 13:41:51 hal: there are aspects to basic XML semantics, security considerations... 13:42:09 hal: do we want to discuss this now? is a lengthy discussion 13:42:37 fjh: this is an important topic and we have to discuss....maybe in the next call 13:42:50 q+ 13:42:52 ack klanz 13:42:54 zakim, unmute me 13:42:54 klanz2 was not muted, klanz2 13:42:57 ack tlr 13:43:01 ack tlr 13:43:35 q- 13:43:39 konrad: no syntactical means for distinguighing 13:43:57 ...prefixed from unprefixed qnames... 13:44:05 +1 to fjh 13:44:45 ed: maybe we .... 13:44:45 to distinguish from other data that may also look like prefixed names 13:44:58 eg: urn:somename 13:45:06 ed: should get broader attention to this as this may not be an issue only on one type of canonicalization algorithm 13:45:11 q+ to note that c14N 1.1 is actually explicit 13:45:51 q+ 13:46:01 phil: when applying transforms, and you use prefixed qnames, then you have to take into account how to deal with them.. 13:46:12 Ed: qname discussion not likely to be resolved in short order; will likely lead to significant discussion. I suggest capping c14n 1.1, and getting to work on c14n 2.0 ASAP. 13:46:33 +1 13:46:46 ack tlr 13:46:46 tlr, you wanted to note that c14N 1.1 is actually explicit 13:47:17 tlr: supports moving on, and support not asking for an explicit remark to be added... 13:47:22 q- 13:47:25 ack EdSimon 13:47:40 +1 to tlr 13:48:02 tlr: table qname issues for now, leave C14N11 as now, future work item 13:48:06 tlr: if this is relevant, then we should include it for future work... leave C14n1 as it is 13:48:21 q? 13:48:36 hal: agrees moving on. 13:48:37 ack hal_lockhart 13:48:47 fjh: phill, can you live with this? 13:48:50 phill: yeah *sigh* 13:49:16 fjh: consider whether to do anything with sig or... 13:49:31 RESOLUTION: not to feed C14n1 13:49:40 RESOLUTION: not to feed C14n1 on the qnames issue 13:49:51 shall we distill some thing for the future work now from this discussion 13:49:52 grw has joined #xmlsec 13:50:19 ACTION-23: closed 13:50:24 q+ 13:50:56 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/qnameids.html 13:50:59 hal: mentions some text on qnames... 13:51:07 ACTION-24: closed 13:51:17 fjh: asks to complete the questionnaire on interop. 13:51:34 TOPIC: 5) Editorial Status 13:51:51 fjh: asks to review the editorial material circulated. Not possible to discuss it now 13:52:01 TOPIC: 5a) Review status of XML Signature draft 13:52:01 TOPIC: 5b) Review status Decryption Transform draft 13:52:01 I share Phill's sigh. From my review of c14n 1.1, uddi c14n (http://www.uddi.org/pubs/SchemaCentricCanonicalization-20020710.htm), and the qname issue, my strong initial impression is that it will be best to move from c14n 1.1 to c14n 2.0 ASAP. 13:52:26 TOPIC: 7. Workshop Planning 13:52:38 fjh: two or three proposals for workshops? 13:52:48 fjh: Austria, Spain, California... 13:52:54 zakim, unmute me 13:52:54 klanz2 was not muted, klanz2 13:53:07 peterlipp: would be willing to host in Graz 13:53:09 PeterL: offers Austria (Graz) 13:53:22 zakim, mute me 13:53:22 klanz2 should now be muted 13:53:24 fjh: how many days? assumed 2 or 3 13:53:41 tlr mentioned typically 2 13:53:47 what about preparation day? 13:53:56 fjh: do we need face-to-face processing time? 13:54:03 ... any difference to the folks who would host? 13:54:07 hal: no difference to us 13:54:10 peter: no problem 13:54:14 PeterLipp: does not care on the days. 13:54:17 juanCC: can do 3 13:54:42 tlr: three months in advance it announces the workshop 13:55:04 tlr: not earlier than September. 13:55:24 fjh: people think on time. 13:55:34 fjh: avoid first week of September 13:55:40 zakim, unmute me 13:55:40 klanz2 should no longer be muted 13:55:53 zakim, mute me 13:55:53 klanz2 should now be muted 13:55:56 fjh: Konrad constraints existent 13:56:08