IRC log of core on 2007-04-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:57:37 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #core

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/17-core-irc

14:00:35 [fsasaki]

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14:00:37 [MickM]

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14:00:56 [Zakim]

I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has now started

14:00:59 [Zakim]

+Felix

14:01:18 [r007a]

zakim, dial richard please

14:01:25 [Zakim]

ok, r007a; the call is being made

14:01:29 [Zakim]

+Richard

14:01:37 [Zakim]

+Michael_Monaghan

14:02:02 [r007a]

zakim, who's here ?

14:02:09 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Felix, Richard, Michael_Monaghan

14:02:13 [Zakim]

+??P22

14:02:17 [Zakim]

On IRC I see MickM, fsasaki, RRSAgent, Zakim, r007a, DavidClarke

14:02:34 [r007a]

zakim, ??P22 is David

14:02:41 [Zakim]

+David; got it

14:02:51 [Zakim]

+Greg_Aaron

14:03:53 [GregAaron]

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14:04:34 [r007a]

Meeting: I18n Core telecon

14:04:34 [r007a]

Chair: Richard Ishida

14:04:58 [r007a]

Regrets: Ienup, Vijay, Karunesh, Tom

14:05:07 [r007a]

Scribe: Michael

14:06:41 [MickM]

"What is Encoding" - Daivid will plagiarize some images, simplify article, less theoretical

14:07:00 [r007a]

ACTION: David, look at What is encoding, and why should I http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoEncoding and determine what needs to be done to move to next stage [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/10-core-minutes.html#action09] DONE

14:07:31 [MickM]

David open to suggestions on the "What is Encoding" article.

14:08:26 [r007a]

ACTION: David, redraft What is encoding, and why should I http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoEncoding for 1st May

14:08:48 [r007a]

ACTION: RI, move Tagging text with no language information to HTML http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoNoLanguageTag recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/10-core-minutes.html#action08] DONE

14:09:40 [MickM]

RI recieved lots of feedback on the 'geoNoLanguageTag' article. Needs to parse feedback etc.

14:09:55 [r007a]

ACTION: RI, publish What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8? http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-upgrade.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/10-core-minutes.html#action11] PENDING

14:10:16 [r007a]

ACTION: Richard, consider a F2F since it has been awhile. Before or at same time as plenary? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/10-core-minutes.html#action13] PENDING

14:10:49 [r007a]

ACTION: Richard, OK to link to http://people.w3.org/rishida/utils/subtags/ recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/10-core-minutes.html#action12] DONE

14:11:27 [MickM]

RI's 'subtag' page receiving some traffic

14:11:45 [r007a]

ACTION: All, look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2007Mar/0030.html and send feedback by email for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/10-core-minutes.html#action01] CLOSED

14:12:25 [r007a]

ACTION: All, review Tagging text with no language information http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoNoLanguageTag for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/10-core-minutes.html#action02] CLOSED

14:12:41 [r007a]

ACTION: Felix to look at EARL Schema and see if a review is necessary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/10-core-minutes.html#action03] DONE

14:13:26 [MickM]

Felix looked at EARL schema - thinks no need for additional review.

14:13:44 [r007a]

ACTION: Felix to look at SPARQL and see if an i18n review is necessary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/10-core-minutes.html#action04] DONE

14:13:46 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20070326/#func-langMatches

14:14:15 [MickM]

Felix looked at SPARQL - one comment - need to discuss one para - pasted above

14:14:15 [r007a]

Topic: Info Share

14:14:28 [GregAaron]

nothing to report

14:14:38 [r007a]

Language Declaration Best Practices

14:14:38 [r007a]

PUBLISHED !

14:14:38 [r007a]

http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/

14:14:55 [fsasaki]

congrats!

14:15:00 [GregAaron]

well done

14:15:02 [MickM]

RI's Info Share: lang declaration BP published as WG note

14:15:13 [r007a]

Updated pipeline page

14:15:13 [r007a]

http://www.w3.org/International/core/pipeline

14:15:33 [MickM]

RI updated the 'pipeline' page - to bring it in line with rest of iste.

14:15:36 [r007a]

Subtag search tool linked to from various places

14:15:36 [r007a]

http://people.w3.org/rishida/utils/subtags/

14:15:38 [r007a]

Subtag search tool linked to from various places

14:15:38 [r007a]

http://people.w3.org/rishida/utils/subtags/

14:15:43 [r007a]

Subtag search tool linked to from various places

14:15:43 [r007a]

http://people.w3.org/rishida/utils/subtags/

14:16:39 [r007a]

Topic: Core homework page

14:16:39 [r007a]

http://esw.w3.org/topic/coreHomework

14:16:39 [r007a]

Would it be useful to keep this up?

14:17:25 [MickM]

Core Homework Page -lists some tasks awaiting attention. Should this page be maintained?

14:18:01 [fsasaki]

q+

14:18:57 [MickM]

MM - More useful than agenda. Agenda arrives too late.

14:20:57 [MickM]

Felix - agrees that Core homework page a good idea. Little worried about additional workload

14:21:54 [MickM]

RI - yes it's more work, BUT! - might be the diff between having participants read material before mtg or not

14:22:37 [Zakim]

+??P9

14:22:45 [MickM]

RI - might create agenda in wiki

14:23:10 [MickM]

All - please send additional agenda requests via email to RI

14:24:03 [MickM]

DC: adding to wiki - reasonable to allow edit-all?

14:24:13 [MickM]

RI - yes. Would be fine.

14:24:54 [r007a]

Topic: What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8?

14:24:54 [r007a]

http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-upgrade.en.php

14:24:54 [r007a]

Comments found. Who can review comments and suggest next steps?

14:26:03 [MickM]

"Moving to UTF-8" article. RI went to move to published last week. - but realized there were some comments outstanding.

14:26:11 [MickM]

Andrew will parse these comments

14:26:42 [r007a]

ACTION: Andrew, read comments for What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8? http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-upgrade.en.php and seek resolutions and propose necessary edits

14:27:36 [r007a]

ri, remove xforms from radar

14:28:08 [r007a]

Topic: xml schema comments

14:28:08 [r007a]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2007Mar/0030.html

14:28:08 [r007a]

Any thoughts?

14:28:59 [MickM]

"XML Schema Comments" - summarized by Felix

14:29:11 [MickM]

Felix - drafteed new comments based on old

14:29:33 [MickM]

Felix - 2 new comments. 1 - allow i18n related markup in schemas

14:30:06 [MickM]

ITS now available - wasn't before.

14:30:40 [MickM]

2. Dates in say French representaiton. When comment first made - not much available to create locale specific data rep.

14:30:50 [MickM]

Now CLDR available

14:31:32 [MickM]

Felix: Would be good to have such a mechanism in XML Schema 1.1

14:32:25 [fsasaki]

would propose a mechanism to use instead of "2007-03-27" (current date data type) the following : "2007年3月27日"

14:33:51 [MickM]

RI - we currently get the En representation - since it's an ISO format

14:34:23 [MickM]

Currently XML SChema only allows locale non-specific date/time format

14:35:19 [MickM]

RI - Q: One country can have several date/time format variations. Is Felix recommending one format per country, or that it conform to a general format?

14:38:47 [GregAaron]

Yes, one country can have variants. Certain sections of the US, for example.

14:38:51 [MickM]

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14:39:29 [DavidClarke]

Currently only ISO format is allowable

14:40:12 [DavidClarke]

Felix suggests that data types could be defined for each new locale

14:40:35 [DavidClarke]

and the data source. e.g. CLDR

14:41:05 [DavidClarke]

Which is similar to ISO notion of date and time

14:41:49 [DavidClarke]

RI suggests that specifying a CLDR locale ID which could then be used for validation

14:42:38 [DavidClarke]

which gives automatic extensibility via a CLDR data type

14:43:40 [DavidClarke]

e.g. using this in 5 languages, but extend the XML document to include data eith the CLDR id

14:44:34 [DavidClarke]

Felix suggests that there needs to be a schema entry to say that a field is a a CLDR compatible field.

14:45:18 [DavidClarke]

XML schema gives lexical representation and value representation

14:45:56 [DavidClarke]

this would enable mapping lexical representation of data type to local indementant form in XML schema processor

14:46:19 [DavidClarke]

at present both have a 1 to 1 (ISO to ISO)

14:46:59 [DavidClarke]

Felix wants option to provide Lexical to ISO mapping for content creators

14:47:53 [DavidClarke]

Felix would like this mechanism to be defined. e.g. as a schema annotation

14:49:27 [DavidClarke]

Felix prepared to start with it as a private query to XML schema WG

14:49:56 [DavidClarke]

RI suggests taking it forwards in the way that the no language tag was handled

14:50:39 [DavidClarke]

Felix is preparing a detailed paper on the subject, but it is not ready for circulation yet

14:51:16 [DavidClarke]

RI can we collect this info in a centralised location?

14:52:15 [DavidClarke]

Felix suggests that starting it as private and then adding paper when it is ready

14:52:47 [r007a]

ACTION: Felix, send private email to XML SChema to discuss point 2 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2007Mar/0030.html and look at creating a page describing the proposal later

14:54:33 [DavidClarke]

RI invites all to look at EMMA regarding i18n

14:54:50 [r007a]

Topic: SPARQL review

14:54:53 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20070326/#func-langMatches

14:55:28 [fsasaki]

Returns true if language-range (second argument) matches language-tag (first argument) per Matching of Language Tags [RFC4647] section 2.1. RFC4647 defines a case-insensitive, hierarchical matching algorithm which operates on ISO-defined subtags for language and country codes, and user defined subtags. In SPARQL, a language-range of "*" matches any non-empty language-tag string.

14:56:48 [DavidClarke]

Felix: suggest BCP47 reference needed

14:58:13 [DavidClarke]

Felix: proposes dropping second sentence as RFC4647 does not specify this, and RFC4647 does not operate ISO defined subtags

14:58:19 [GregAaron]

logging off for another meeting; see you next time.

14:58:25 [Zakim]

-Greg_Aaron

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14:59:04 [DavidClarke]

RI : Should say operates on languages defined in the subtag registry

14:59:52 [mm]

mm has joined #core

15:00:10 [DavidClarke]

Felix: This is the only area that still seems relevant to i18n

15:01:04 [Zakim]

-David

15:02:02 [Zakim]

-Michael_Monaghan

15:02:04 [Zakim]

-Felix

15:02:05 [Zakim]

-Andrew

15:02:10 [Zakim]

-Richard

15:02:12 [Zakim]

I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has ended

15:02:13 [Zakim]

Attendees were Felix, Richard, Michael_Monaghan, David, Greg_Aaron, Andrew

15:03:12 [r007a]

ACTION: Felix, send comments we discussed to SPARQL folks (http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20070326/#func-langMatches)

15:04:24 [r007a]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:04:24 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/17-core-minutes.html r007a

15:08:05 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/17-core-minutes.html fsasaki