IRC log of grddl-wg on 2007-02-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:51:18 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg
15:51:18 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/02/21-grddl-wg-irc
15:51:53 [John]: John has joined #grddl-wg
15:55:14 [chimezie]: chimezie has joined #grddl-wg
15:55:26 [chimezie]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:55:26 [Zakim]: SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has not yet started, chimezie
15:55:27 [Zakim]: On IRC I see chimezie, John, RRSAgent, danja, Zakim, Simone, DanC_lap, briansuda
15:56:07 [john-l]: C'mon, man, where's the multitasking? ;-)
15:56:22 [john-l]: chimezie: Good morning!
15:58:20 [chimezie]: hello there
15:59:06 [danja]: procedure : out of sweo => pour coffee => into grddl-wg
16:00:35 [Zakim]: SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has now started
16:00:42 [Zakim]: + +1.216.445.aaaa
16:00:56 [john-l]: Zakim, aaaa is john-l.
16:00:56 [Zakim]: +john-l; got it
16:01:42 [Zakim]: +Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:01:52 [FabienG]: FabienG has joined #grddl-wg
16:02:31 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:02:36 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller.a]
16:02:39 [briansuda]: Zakim, IPcaller is briansuda
16:02:39 [Zakim]: +briansuda; got it
16:02:40 [Simone]: Zakim, IPcaller is Simone
16:02:41 [Zakim]: sorry, Simone, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
16:02:46 [Simone]: Zakim, IPcaller.a is Simone
16:02:48 [Zakim]: +Simone; got it
16:02:51 [Zakim]: + +1.919.457.aabb
16:03:26 [Zakim]: + +1.913.236.aacc
16:03:41 [Zakim]: +[Sophia]
16:03:45 [Simone]: Zakim, mute me
16:03:45 [Zakim]: Simone should now be muted
16:03:50 [DanC_lap]: Zakim, take up item 1
16:03:50 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-02-21T11:00-0500" taken up
16:03:52 [HarryH]: HarryH has joined #grddl-wg
16:03:55 [DanC_lap]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:57 [Zakim]: On the phone I see john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, briansuda, Simone (muted), +1.919.457.aabb, DanC, [Sophia]
16:04:16 [chimezie]: Zakim, 1.919.457.aabb is HarryH
16:04:16 [FabienG]: Zakim, Sophia is FabienG
16:04:16 [Zakim]: sorry, chimezie, I do not recognize a party named '1.919.457.aabb'
16:04:19 [Zakim]: +FabienG; got it
16:04:25 [chimezie]: Zakim, +1.919.457.aabb is HarryH
16:04:25 [Zakim]: +HarryH; got it
16:04:29 [chimezie]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:29 [Zakim]: On the phone I see john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, briansuda, Simone (muted), HarryH, DanC, FabienG
16:04:44 [Simone]: Zakim, unmute me
16:04:44 [Zakim]: Simone should no longer be muted
16:05:17 [HarryH]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:17 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose john-l
16:05:30 [HarryH]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:30 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:05:44 [HarryH]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:44 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Simone
16:05:50 [chimezie]: scribe: Chimezie_ogbuji
16:05:54 [Zakim]: +??P18
16:06:04 [HarryH]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:06:04 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC
16:06:07 [DanC_lap]: Regrets+ rreck
16:06:16 [HarryH]: DanC to scribe for next week.
16:06:36 [HarryH]: PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly -- 14 Feb 2007 as a true record
16:06:53 [HarryH]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/att-0135/14-grddl-wg-minutes.html
16:06:57 [HarryH]: RESOLVED
16:06:58 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:07:04 [bwm]: bwm has joined #grddl-wg
16:07:09 [danja]: zakim, [IPCaller] is danja
16:07:09 [Zakim]: +danja; got it
16:07:18 [HarryH]: Zakim, who's on the phone
16:07:18 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who's on the phone', HarryH
16:07:28 [HarryH]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:07:28 [Zakim]: On the phone I see john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, briansuda, Simone, HarryH, DanC, FabienG, ??P18, danja
16:07:42 [bwm]: Zakim, ??p18 is bwm
16:07:42 [Zakim]: +bwm; got it
16:07:46 [Zakim]: +Murray_Maloney
16:08:02 [HarryH]: Zakim, next item
16:08:02 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "[#issue-conformance-labels]" taken up
16:08:24 [danja]: zakim, mute me
16:08:24 [Zakim]: danja should now be muted
16:08:27 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: wrote up a section on GRDDL-aware agents
16:08:32 [DanC_lap]: http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#sec_agt
16:08:38 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: incorporated *most* feedback
16:09:18 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: added JJ's security excerpt
16:09:26 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: tweak to item 2. not changed yet
16:10:03 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: WG seems supportive
16:10:34 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: plans to update murray suggestion for step 2
16:11:20 [HarryH]: PROPOSE: to resolve close #issue-conformance-label as per Dan's text in spec as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0140.html with resulting comments edited in as appropriate.
16:12:21 [HarryH]: PROPOSE: to resolve close #issue-conformance-label as per Dan's text in spec as in current text in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec with resulting comments edited in as appropriate.
16:12:22 [DanC_lap]: so I guess I PROPOSE: to include "GRDDL-aware agent" as a conformance-label as described in sections 8 and 9 of http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec v: 1.227 plus Murray's suggestion to step 2
16:12:55 [danja]: s/mailicious/malicious
16:12:59 [DanC_lap]: so I guess I PROPOSE: to include "GRDDL-aware agent" as a conformance-label as described in sections 8 and 9 of http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec v: 1.227 plus Murray's suggestion to step 2, plus a scrub for s/GRDDL processor/GRDDL-aware agent/
16:13:14 [HarryH]: Murray: "...pass documents from trusted sources through a GRDDL processor...."
16:13:30 [DanC_lap]: so I guess I PROPOSE: to include "GRDDL-aware agent" as a conformance-label as described in sections 8 and 9 of http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec v: 1.227 plus Murray's suggestion to step 2, plus a scrub for s/GRDDL processor/GRDDL-aware agent/ and s/GRDDL transform/GRDDL transformation/
16:13:42 [HarryH]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:13:42 [Zakim]: On the phone I see john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, briansuda, Simone, HarryH, DanC, FabienG, bwm, danja (muted), Murray_Maloney
16:13:44 [chimezie]: Murray: security section isn't using consistent language with rest of the spec
16:14:34 [briansuda]: abstain
16:14:45 [danja]: zakim, unmute me
16:14:45 [Zakim]: danja should no longer be muted
16:14:53 [chimezie]: .. we query members for comfort level of PROPOSAL ..
16:15:16 [HarryH]: can't hear very well...
16:15:16 [danja]: sound bad here too
16:15:30 [DanC_lap]: I heard Simone say "it's ok for me" which is clear and then "the procedure may be clear" which wasn't clear
16:15:32 [HarryH]: Simone?
16:15:37 [DanC_lap]: Zakim, who's talking?
16:15:47 [HarryH]: To you think Dan's text editing is okay? Close the issue?
16:15:48 [Zakim]: DanC_lap, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: briansuda (25%), bwm (20%), danja (29%)
16:16:07 [HarryH]: Simone - can you respond in IRC, as I am having difficulty hearing you.
16:16:10 [DanC_lap]: Simone, I'm having trouble hearing; perhaps you could type what you said?
16:16:43 [HarryH]: Fabien?
16:16:56 [HarryH]: abstain
16:16:57 [chimezie]: FabienG: abstains
16:17:00 [HarryH]: bwm?
16:17:18 [HarryH]: bwm doesn't address issue raised....still ambiguous.
16:17:28 [chimezie]: bwm: could you restate the issue?
16:17:31 [chimezie]: if you don't mind?
16:18:03 [Zakim]: -Simone
16:18:11 [HarryH]: Murray?
16:18:12 [chimezie]: danja: should not verbage meant to be informative/normative?
16:18:22 [chimezie]: Murray: minor editorial issues..
16:18:28 [Zakim]: -briansuda
16:18:55 [chimezie]: HarryH: get objections out on table
16:19:32 [chimezie]: bwm: what is the specific criteria for GRDDL-aware agent label
16:20:18 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: the text is clear..
16:20:19 [danja]: a triangle is a three-sided triangle?
16:20:30 [chimezie]: bwm: WG members misread the intent of the label defn..
16:20:46 [Zakim]: +??P12
16:20:54 [Simone]: Zakim, +??P12 is Simone
16:20:54 [Zakim]: sorry, Simone, I do not recognize a party named '+??P12'
16:20:57 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:21:04 [briansuda]: Zakim, IPcaller is briansuda
16:21:04 [Zakim]: +briansuda; got it
16:21:05 [Simone]: Zakim, P12 is Simone
16:21:06 [Zakim]: sorry, Simone, I do not recognize a party named 'P12'
16:21:31 [Simone]: Zakim, +??P12 is Simone
16:21:31 [Zakim]: sorry, Simone, I do not recognize a party named '+??P12'
16:21:41 [Simone]: Zakim, who's on call please?
16:21:41 [Zakim]: I don't understand your question, Simone.
16:21:52 [HarryH]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:21:52 [Zakim]: On the phone I see john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, HarryH, DanC, FabienG, bwm, danja, Murray_Maloney, ??P12, briansuda
16:22:03 [chimezie]: +q
16:22:06 [HarryH]: Zakim, ??P12 is Simone
16:22:06 [Zakim]: +Simone; got it
16:22:21 [chimezie]: bwm: do the policies confuse the conformance definition...
16:23:21 [chimezie]: Murrays: suggestion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0188.html
16:23:32 [DanC_lap]: so I guess I PROPOSE: to include "GRDDL-aware agent" as a conformance-label as described in sections 8 and 9 of http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec v: 1.227 plus Murray's suggestion to step 2, plus a scrub for s/GRDDL processor/GRDDL-aware agent/ and s/GRDDL transform/GRDDL transformation/
16:23:32 [HarryH]: ack Chime
16:23:47 [DanC_lap]: Murray's suggestion re step 2 is [[ Selectively apply any or all discovered transformations to obtain GRDDL results.
16:23:47 [DanC_lap]: [N.B. Selection may be guided by the agent's capabilities, local security policies
16:23:47 [DanC_lap]: and possibly user/client intervention. ]]
16:25:37 [chimezie]: chimezie: what happens if a local policy prevents the application of any transform - is it a GRDDL-aware agent?
16:25:50 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: not too concerned...
16:26:10 [DanC_lap]: 1.228 has the tweak to step 2 applied.
16:26:17 [chimezie]: I think if we describe the conformance criteria in the context of policies (as completely as we can) we will be consistent
16:26:29 [DanC_lap]: so I guess I PROPOSE: to include "GRDDL-aware agent" as a conformance-label as described in sections 8 and 9 of http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec v: 1.228, plus a scrub for s/GRDDL processor/GRDDL-aware agent/ and s/GRDDL transform/GRDDL transformation/
16:29:25 [HarryH]: s/A GRDDL-aware agent is a software module that computes GRDDL results of information resources./A GRDDL-aware agent is a software module that computes GRDDL results of information resources given a local policy..
16:31:09 [HarryH]: A local policy SHOULD allow one to produce one or more GRDDL results on at least one source document.
16:31:13 [HarryH]: ?
16:35:13 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: serves editorial right to make changes adhoc as long as they don't violate WG consensus
16:35:24 [HarryH]: PROPOSE: to include "GRDDL-aware agent" as a conformance-label as described in sections 8 and 9 of http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec v: 1.228, plus a scrub for s/GRDDL processor/GRDDL-aware agent/ and s/GRDDL transform/GRDDL transformation/.
16:35:58 [HarryH]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:35:58 [Zakim]: On the phone I see john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, HarryH, DanC, FabienG, bwm, danja, Murray_Maloney, Simone, briansuda
16:36:01 [briansuda]: yes
16:36:19 [chimezie]: sweet
16:36:28 [HarryH]: RESOLVED: to include "GRDDL-aware agent" as a conformance-label as described in sections 8 and 9 of http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec v: 1.228, plus a scrub for s/GRDDL processor/GRDDL-aware agent/ and s/GRDDL transform/GRDDL transformation/.
16:37:01 [DanC_lap]: MM notes in section 8 "step 4 and 5" is tricky.
16:37:05 [HarryH]: We will have the possibility this week of editorial changes, including sharpening definition of local policy and GRDDL-aware agent.
16:37:13 [DanC_lap]: Danc: yes, I'll look into more clear numbering
16:37:36 [HarryH]: Zakim, next item
16:37:36 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "[#issue-http-header-links]" taken up
16:39:51 [HarryH]: ACTION: HarryH to bring #issue-http-header-links test with dajobe.
16:41:02 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: added IanD's text, cited IETF draft, ...
16:41:10 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: done as far as I know
16:41:59 [HarryH]: Zakim, next item
16:41:59 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "GRDDL Spec: Last Call" taken up
16:42:28 [HarryH]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:42:28 [Zakim]: On the phone I see john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, HarryH, DanC, FabienG, bwm, danja, Murray_Maloney, Simone, briansuda
16:43:16 [briansuda]: yes
16:43:51 [chimezie]: .. a vote for draft last call is taken up ..
16:44:03 [chimezie]: 1 abstain, 2 nos.. all else: yes..
16:44:17 [chimezie]: bwm: high rate of change, now stable period before last call is taken up
16:44:21 [chimezie]: s/now/no
16:45:11 [danja]: zakim, mute me
16:45:11 [Zakim]: danja should now be muted
16:45:24 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: happy to not touch spec..
16:45:54 [chimezie]: Murary: a week to review, incorporate comments, and voete
16:45:57 [chimezie]: s/voete/vote
16:47:07 [chimezie]: Murray: fine with monday as editorial cut off..
16:47:48 [chimezie]: bwm: 2 kinds of comment: editorial and substantitive
16:48:04 [chimezie]: bwm: we will need telecon time to discuss substantial comments. Add editorial comments to after last call
16:48:20 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: concurrs with me
16:48:25 [danja]: +1
16:48:53 [chimezie]: bwm: can't review by friday
16:49:01 [danja]: zakim, unmute me
16:49:01 [Zakim]: danja should no longer be muted
16:49:31 [chimezie]: Murray: current draft?
16:49:38 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: prefers review of current draft
16:49:49 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: 1.228
16:49:50 [DanC_lap]: 1.228
16:51:16 [HarryH]: PROPOSAL: To freeze GRDDL spec draft at 1.228 for a week of reviews, clearly label reviews comments substantive or editorial and go for Last Call next telecon..
16:52:28 [HarryH]: RESOLVED: To freeze GRDDL spec draft at 1.228 for a week of reviews, clearly label reviews comments substantive or editorial and go for Last Call next telecon.
16:52:33 [chimezie]: HarryH: release as a WD?
16:52:35 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: no..
16:52:51 [Zakim]: -Murray_Maloney
16:53:12 [HarryH]: Zakim. next item
16:53:16 [Zakim]: +Murray_Maloney
16:53:23 [HarryH]: Zakim, next item
16:53:23 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Primer Document: Going To Last Call?" taken up
16:53:48 [chimezie]: HarryH: bug in RDFa example... no approval from danja
16:54:12 [chimezie]: danja: satisfied..
16:54:32 [DanC_lap]: (danja, you did send comments? Harry and I seem to have missed them in preparing the agenda)
16:55:02 [HarryH]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0198.html
16:55:31 [HarryH]: ACTION: Fabien to see what causes this bug in RDFa http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0198.html
16:55:36 [HarryH]: Zakim, next item
16:55:36 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "Use-Case Document: Going To Last Call?" taken up
16:55:37 [DanC_lap]: (oh. duh. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0126.html 14 Feb from danja re primer)
16:56:04 [danja]: hmm, can't see it now, but I broke that out in another thread
16:56:14 [FabienG]: GRDDL Use Cases: Scenarios of extracting RDF data from XML documents, v 1.75 2007/02/21 16:32:07 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm
16:56:42 [HarryH]: DanC: Workload reason for taking it to rec track.
16:56:43 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: prefer not to take usecases to rec track
16:57:57 [chimezie]: HarryH: if editor wants to go to rec track, we should go..
16:58:05 [danja]: (re. primer the problem I saw was just down to non-sync between text & linked data, now I believe resolved)
16:58:33 [chimezie]: Murray: desire to take usecase doc to rec track..
16:59:30 [HarryH]: http://www.w3.org/TR/webont-req/
16:59:49 [chimezie]: we should take both or neither to rec track.. (there are dependencies)..
16:59:54 [HarryH]: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-dawg-uc/
17:00:19 [chimezie]: DanC_lap: when usecases went rec track they had *requirements*...
17:02:55 [danja]: zakim, mute me
17:02:55 [Zakim]: danja should now be muted
17:03:30 [chimezie]: we don't seem to be on the same page about what is going rec track
17:04:05 [chimezie]: HarryH: resource issues with taking test doc to rec track
17:04:13 [chimezie]: Murray: what if test doc and spec conflict?
17:04:30 [danja]: brb, shoe to retrieve (no strong feelings on rec track for aux docs)
17:04:53 [HarryH]: Zakim's who's on the phone?
17:04:59 [HarryH]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:04:59 [Zakim]: On the phone I see john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, HarryH, DanC, FabienG, bwm, danja (muted), Simone, briansuda, Murray_Maloney
17:05:12 [HarryH]: The questions are:
17:05:14 [DanC_lap]: (that the tests might say something spec doesn't say is a concern of mine; I'm not aware of any crystal-clear cases.)
17:05:15 [HarryH]: Primer Rec Track?
17:05:19 [HarryH]: Use-case Rec Track?
17:05:22 [HarryH]: Test-Case Rec Track?
17:06:07 [chimezie]: john-l: what is criteria for Rec..
17:07:11 [DanC_lap]: (the main criterion for whether something is a REC is that the WG decides that it should be a REC. Different WGs have different styles. It's up to this WG to decide our approach to what to do with what documents.)
17:08:30 [briansuda]: Primer: (preferably), Use-case: abstain, Test: abstain
17:08:47 [danja]: zakim, unmute me
17:08:47 [Zakim]: danja should no longer be muted
17:12:17 [chimezie]: I intend to clearly express the problem with not know what the criteria for REC track is via email. (beyond 'functional requirements')
17:12:58 [chimezie]: Murray: we benefit more from bringing spec to REC status.. we are short on resources... pushing for 'name recognition'.. we should focus on the spec and test cases...
17:13:03 [DanC_lap]: chime, there are no criteria more important than the preference of WG members. I hope you can give an opinion.
17:13:17 [chimezie]: I don't think we have enough of a 'tutorial' , low learning curve approach to GRDDL w/out the other 2
17:16:35 [HarryH]: We'll do a questionnaire and continue discussion on listserv.
17:16:41 [HarryH]: Zakim, next item
17:16:41 [Zakim]: agendum 7. "Test Cases as Rec?" taken up
17:16:46 [HarryH]: Zakim, next item
17:16:46 [Zakim]: agendum 7 was just opened, HarryH
17:16:51 [HarryH]: Zakim open item 8
17:16:55 [HarryH]: Zakim, open item 8
17:16:55 [Zakim]: agendum 8. "Misc Test-Cases nominated for approval" taken up
17:18:22 [danja]: (I got sidetracked making a profile for XSPF without seeing their no-derivs license)
17:18:41 [Zakim]: -DanC
17:18:43 [Zakim]: -Chimezie_Ogbuji
17:18:44 [Zakim]: -bwm
17:18:46 [Zakim]: -Murray_Maloney
17:18:48 [Zakim]: -HarryH
17:18:49 [Zakim]: -john-l
17:18:52 [Zakim]: -briansuda
17:18:54 [Zakim]: -danja
17:18:57 [HarryH]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:18:57 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html HarryH
17:18:58 [Zakim]: -Simone
17:19:01 [Zakim]: -FabienG
17:19:02 [Zakim]: SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended
17:19:03 [Zakim]: Attendees were +1.216.445.aaaa, john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, briansuda, Simone, +1.913.236.aacc, DanC, FabienG, HarryH, danja, bwm, Murray_Maloney
17:19:09 [HarryH]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:19:09 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html HarryH
17:20:05 [chimezie]: rrsagent, set logs world-visible
17:48:02 [danja]: danja has joined #grddl-wg
18:01:20 [DanC_lap]: harry, good job on handling the scheduling issues today. I think you provided some leadership and enouraged the WG to stay on the schedule we've agreed with others, but also listened to reasons why we might do otherwise.
18:11:38 [danja]: danja has left #grddl-wg
18:23:38 [HarryH]: HarryH has joined #grddl-wg
18:43:49 [DanC_lap]: harry, good job on handling the scheduling issues today. I think you provided some leadership and enouraged the WG to stay on the schedule we've agreed with others, but also listened to reasons why we might do otherwise.
19:30:26 [HarryH]: Thanks Dan - just hope we got to consensus on GRDDL spec Last Call next telecon :)