IRC log of rif on 2007-02-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:19:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:19:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-irc
15:19:58 [MoZ]
Zakim, this will be rif
15:19:58 [Zakim]
ok, MoZ; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 41 minutes
15:21:24 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0026.html
15:21:52 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has changed the topic to: 13 Feb RIF Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0026.html
15:22:15 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 13 Feb 07
15:22:36 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
15:23:27 [ChrisW]
Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2006/10/17-rif-agenda.rdf
15:23:27 [Zakim]
working on it, ChrisW
15:23:28 [Zakim]
agenda+ Admin' [ChrisW]
15:23:29 [Zakim]
agendum 1 added
15:23:30 [Zakim]
agenda+ F2F [ChrisW]
15:23:31 [Zakim]
agendum 2 added
15:23:32 [Zakim]
agenda+ Liason [ChrisW]
15:23:34 [Zakim]
agendum 3 added
15:23:36 [Zakim]
agenda+ Technical Design [ChrisW]
15:23:37 [Zakim]
agendum 4 added
15:23:38 [Zakim]
agenda+ RIF-RAF [ChrisW]
15:23:39 [Zakim]
agendum 5 added
15:23:40 [Zakim]
agenda+ UCR [ChrisW]
15:23:42 [Zakim]
agendum 6 added
15:23:44 [Zakim]
agenda+ AOB [ChrisW]
15:23:46 [Zakim]
agendum 7 added
15:23:49 [Zakim]
done reading agenda, ChrisW
15:23:53 [ChrisW]
zakij, clear agenda
15:23:58 [ChrisW]
zakim, clear agenda
15:23:58 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
15:24:06 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Admin
15:24:12 [ChrisW]
agenda+ F2F
15:24:17 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Liason
15:24:25 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Technical Design
15:24:32 [ChrisW]
agenda+ UCR
15:24:36 [ChrisW]
agenda+ RIFRAF
15:24:40 [ChrisW]
agenda+ AOB
15:24:55 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:24:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
15:29:13 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:31:34 [ChrisW]
hey moz, can you scribe today?
15:32:06 [MoZ]
ChrisW, not I even won't be able to attend by phone, I fear
15:32:13 [MoZ]
I will only be there on IRC
15:33:45 [ChrisW]
ok
15:34:47 [MoZ]
The problem is even I would do I still will be a first-half-time-scribe
15:39:40 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
15:41:10 [ChrisW]
that's ok
15:52:04 [agiurca]
agiurca has joined #rif
15:52:37 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
15:54:52 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:55:02 [Zakim]
+ +39.022.399.aaaa
15:55:16 [csma]
zakim, aaaa is me
15:55:16 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
15:57:21 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
15:58:05 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
15:58:22 [patranja]
patranja has joined #rif
15:58:46 [IgorMozetic]
IgorMozetic has joined #rif
15:59:27 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:59:27 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:59:56 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:59:59 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:00:02 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:00:02 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
16:00:23 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
16:00:42 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:00:52 [IgorMozetic]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:00:52 [Zakim]
+IgorMozetic; got it
16:01:03 [IgorMozetic]
zakim, mute me
16:01:04 [Zakim]
IgorMozetic should now be muted
16:01:36 [Zakim]
+josb
16:01:42 [Allen]
Allen has joined #rif
16:02:04 [Harold]
Enterprise Architect is another UML tool: http://www.sparxsystems.com/ea.htm
16:02:05 [Zakim]
+[LMU]
16:02:07 [DavidHirtle]
DavidHirtle has joined #rif
16:02:07 [Zakim]
+[TU-Cottbus]
16:02:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
16:02:24 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:02:29 [agiurca]
zakim, [TU-Cottbus] is agiurca
16:02:29 [Zakim]
+agiurca; got it
16:02:30 [Zakim]
+Allen_Ginsberg
16:02:33 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (21%), ChrisW (19%), PaulaP (2%), [TU-Cottbus] (30%)
16:02:37 [agiurca]
zakim, mute me
16:02:37 [Zakim]
agiurca should now be muted
16:02:41 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:02:41 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:02:44 [Allen]
zakim, mute me
16:02:49 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:02:59 [Zakim]
+Sandro
16:03:17 [Zakim]
+??P35
16:03:17 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
16:03:22 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
16:03:26 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
16:03:26 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
16:03:37 [DavidHirtle]
zakim, ack me
16:03:40 [Zakim]
I see ??P35 on the speaker queue
16:03:45 [cgi-irc]
cgi-irc has joined #rif
16:03:53 [LeoraMorgenstern]
LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
16:03:56 [Zakim]
+??P38
16:04:06 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds (was ??P38)
16:04:15 [ChrisW]
ack ??
16:04:26 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has left #rif
16:04:36 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #rif
16:04:43 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma (muted), Harold, ChrisW, IgorMozetic (muted), josb (muted), PaulaP (muted), agiurca (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), DavidHirtle,
16:04:46 [Zakim]
... StellaMitchell (muted), Dave_Reynolds
16:04:51 [Zakim]
+Leora_Morgenstern
16:04:53 [Zakim]
+??P5
16:04:56 [pfps]
pfps has joined #rif
16:05:06 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, please mute me
16:05:06 [Zakim]
Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:05:28 [Zakim]
+??P14
16:05:37 [pfps]
zakim, P14 is me
16:05:37 [Zakim]
sorry, pfps, I do not recognize a party named 'P14'
16:05:54 [pfps]
zakim, ??P14 is me
16:05:54 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
16:06:18 [Zakim]
+Michael_Kifer
16:06:45 [csma]
I will do it
16:06:48 [ChrisW]
scribenick: csma
16:07:23 [csma]
next agendum
16:07:28 [ChrisW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0013.html
16:07:42 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:07:42 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:07:43 [csma]
proposed: approve minutes of 13 Feb
16:07:56 [csma]
RESOLVED: minutes from 13 Feb approved
16:08:00 [IgorMozetic]
s/13/6/
16:08:02 [Allen]
zakim, unmute me
16:08:04 [csma]
next agendum
16:08:05 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:08:28 [csma]
Zakum, next agendum
16:09:14 [csma]
Allen: If you did not fill the questionaire, please do it before next Friday
16:09:53 [csma]
...extra room booked for BO sessions
16:09:59 [pfps]
I'm ready to scribe.
16:10:08 [csma]
scribenick: pfps
16:10:44 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, unmute me
16:10:44 [Zakim]
Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted
16:10:45 [pfps]
Chris: If you think you might come, sign up on the Wiki and provide nationality so that the appropriate paperwork can be done.
16:10:53 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Yes, sandro, because I forgot to sign up
16:11:02 [pfps]
Sandro: I'll reopen the questionnaire to support this.
16:11:10 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F5
16:11:28 [pfps]
Chris: 16 have signed up, so expect 20
16:12:46 [pfps]
Chris: agenda is up for meeting
16:13:17 [pfps]
Chris: If we can't approve drafts, then we want to at least try to get concrete actions for editors that will result in a working draft
16:13:37 [pfps]
Chris: Documents will be frozen one week before F2F
16:13:47 [Harold]
Is there news about wiki-tr (reading on the plane)?
16:14:16 [pfps]
Chris: Day 2 devoted to UCR draft
16:14:36 [pfps]
Chris: Day 3 devoted to architecture and to complete actions from previous days
16:14:54 [pfps]
Chris: WIKI page has more details, comments wanted
16:15:09 [pfps]
Chris: Hotels still have room, but do often fill
16:15:50 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
16:15:50 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "F2F" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:15:53 [pfps]
Allen: Two demos are available.
16:16:04 [pfps]
Harold: What about remote participation?
16:16:41 [pfps]
Allen: Each room has a speakerphone
16:17:06 [pfps]
Chris: Use regular code, if second bridge is needed then one will be set up
16:17:33 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
16:17:33 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:17:34 [pfps]
Sandro: Will send out email asking who wants to phone in (and when?)
16:17:53 [csma]
ACTION: to Sandro to send email to ask who plans to attend by phone
16:17:53 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
16:18:08 [PaulVincent]
PRR - no news
16:18:11 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
16:18:11 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, ChrisW
16:18:19 [ChrisW]
zakim, close item 3
16:18:19 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Liason, closed
16:18:21 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:18:22 [Zakim]
4. Technical Design [from ChrisW]
16:18:33 [pfps]
Chris: Action review
16:19:10 [pfps]
Chris: Harold actions 216 done, 217 done,
16:19:17 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
16:19:19 [pfps]
Chris: Jos action #? done
16:19:45 [pfps]
Chris: actions 218, 219, 220 done
16:19:56 [johnhall]
johnhall has joined #rif
16:20:07 [pfps]
Chris: action 223 done
16:20:18 [Zakim]
+Sandro.a
16:20:26 [pfps]
Chris: action (Sandro) not done
16:20:30 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:20:41 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
16:20:49 [csma]
s/(sandro)/224/
16:20:55 [pfps]
Harold: draft incorporates all changes from Allen's initial review
16:21:00 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:21:15 [johnhall]
zakim, ipcaller is me
16:21:15 [Zakim]
+johnhall; got it
16:21:22 [pfps]
Harold: still discussing later review from Allen and other reviews (appendix)
16:21:23 [johnhall]
zakim,mute me
16:21:23 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
16:21:40 [MichaelKifer]
q+
16:21:43 [pfps]
Harold: overview section has initial content
16:22:01 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:22:01 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:22:11 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
16:22:11 [pfps]
Harold: Mike and Jos are discussing comments
16:22:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:22:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma (muted), Harold, ChrisW, IgorMozetic (muted), josb (muted), PaulaP (muted), agiurca (muted), Allen_Ginsberg, DavidHirtle, StellaMitchell (muted),
16:22:22 [Zakim]
... Dave_Reynolds, Leora_Morgenstern, PaulVincent, pfps, Michael_Kifer, Gary_Hallmark, Sandro.a, johnhall (muted)
16:22:52 [pfps]
Michael: current document has motivation - where should they go? they might end up quite long
16:23:14 [pfps]
Chris: leave motivation, etc., in for initial draft, later move to another document
16:23:30 [agiurca]
There is a consensus about the Section "Multisorted Extension?" Why is this an extension? I propose to drop out this section by moving the content to the Syntax and Semantics sections.
16:23:41 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
16:24:11 [pfps]
Michael: how to address criticism then?
16:24:22 [csma]
q+
16:24:47 [pfps]
Harold: comments are against technical sections - mixture of intro and formal stuff
16:24:47 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:24:55 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
16:25:06 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:25:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma (muted), Harold, ChrisW, IgorMozetic (muted), josb (muted), PaulaP (muted), agiurca (muted), Allen_Ginsberg, DavidHirtle, StellaMitchell (muted),
16:25:09 [Zakim]
... Dave_Reynolds, Leora_Morgenstern, PaulVincent, pfps, Michael_Kifer, Gary_Hallmark, Sandro.a, johnhall (muted)
16:25:37 [pfps]
Harold: maybe a reorganization of the section is the best way to go
16:25:44 [csma]
q?
16:25:55 [csma]
ack michaelk
16:26:26 [pfps]
Chris: how much work to rewrite
16:26:51 [csma]
q?
16:27:17 [pfps]
Michael/Harold: more than a week, can't just take it out, need to reorganize
16:27:27 [josb]
zakim, unmute me
16:27:27 [Zakim]
josb should no longer be muted
16:27:41 [pfps]
Chris: Jos - what is the biggest problem
16:28:12 [pfps]
Jos: mixture of intro/motivation and technical stuff, which degrades readability
16:28:35 [pfps]
Jos: would be better to have informal intro to language with motivation
16:28:40 [csma]
I agree with Jos; we should clearly separate what is the spec and what are additional explanations
16:28:52 [pfps]
Jos: separate section/document for technical stuff
16:28:59 [Harold]
Jos, later perhaps we'll need a 'walk-through' like the one for OWL? Just not in one week?
16:29:25 [pfps]
Michael: other problems are small, this is the only one that is big
16:29:47 [pfps]
Jos: also question on end point (which documents?) so scope of this document is unclear
16:29:54 [csma]
q?
16:30:05 [pfps]
Chris: this doc is description of RIF core - it will be the guts of the standard
16:30:35 [pfps]
Chris: some stuff will move to another document, which is not ready yet, they need to exist now, so that this document can be read
16:31:35 [pfps]
Michael: the current situation is problematic for non-experts, there needs to be an introductory section or document
16:31:37 [Harold]
Michael, but it's also a good didactic principle to do it "informal-formal-informal-formal-...".
16:32:01 [csma]
ack csma
16:32:05 [Harold]
Rather than informal-informal-...informal-formal-formal-...-formal.
16:32:06 [pfps]
Michael: A completely formal document will need to point to the motivation
16:32:24 [pfps]
CSMA: not clear what is spec and what is non-spec
16:32:58 [Allen]
q+
16:33:02 [pfps]
CSMA: fix by visually indicating spec and non-spec?
16:33:21 [Allen]
q-
16:33:22 [pfps]
Chris: can this be done?
16:33:33 [Allen]
I agree with Christian
16:34:04 [agiurca]
May be the RIF MOF/UML metamodel is better to be inside of the Positive Conditions section and not in the RIF overview.
16:34:09 [pfps]
Harold: probably, but how to do in WIKI style
16:34:26 [pfps]
Michael: how to do quickly?
16:34:26 [Harold]
Christian, special fonts (or boxes) for "informal" and for "formal" would be doable.
16:34:55 [pfps]
CSMA: how about highlighting / italics (just for frozen version) and something better later?
16:35:43 [pfps]
Harold: how about colours?
16:36:17 [pfps]
Sandro: WIKI vs TR - have editors pick something for WIKI, I can map into TR
16:36:33 [Harold]
E.g. in the help system: ||<#FF8080> red ||<#80FF80> green ||<#8080FF> blue ||
16:37:08 [agiurca]
there is a <strong> tag which is not closed
16:37:26 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute csma
16:37:26 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:37:26 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:37:31 [pfps]
Michael: Need some fixes for WIKI-TR - can't use entities
16:37:47 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:37:48 [Zakim]
csma was already muted, csma
16:37:57 [csma]
q+
16:38:17 [Zakim]
+ +3592976aabb
16:38:22 [Harold]
Which colour do we use for "formal"? red?
16:38:27 [pfps]
Sandro: will try to fix (somehow)
16:39:09 [pfps]
Michael: OK
16:39:25 [csma]
q?
16:40:05 [pfps]
Chris: temporary solution is to distinguish via colour
16:40:16 [Harold]
Or, following Christian, mark "informal" by green?
16:41:18 [csma]
q?
16:41:18 [csma]
ack me
16:41:18 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:41:22 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
16:41:46 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:41:46 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:41:54 [pfps]
CSMA: what goes into the overview? Why is the metamodel not in the spec?
16:41:57 [MichaelKifer]
q-
16:42:55 [agiurca]
From the metamodel cannot be obtained the actual BNF. What is the mapping which was used?
16:42:58 [pfps]
Harold: problem with mixing motivation with metamodel
16:43:44 [pfps]
CSMA: XML part should be separated, later
16:44:27 [pfps]
Harold: may not need strict separation, just mark
16:44:45 [agiurca]
XML syntax can be generated fro the MOF abstract syntax
16:45:31 [pfps]
Harold: perhaps physically separate, and have links
16:45:52 [pfps]
CSMA: for this WD just mark, discuss end state later
16:45:59 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:45:59 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:46:20 [pfps]
Chris: move where?
16:46:46 [csma]
I removed the remark about moving XML into a different section
16:46:56 [pfps]
Harold: need two diagrams
16:47:08 [csma]
I keep the remark about moving the meta-model along with the corresponding BNF
16:48:00 [csma]
+1
16:48:10 [pfps]
Chris: do minimal change
16:48:10 [agiurca]
The mapping from the MOF abstract syntax to BNF must be described.
16:48:26 [pfps]
Who is recording actions?
16:48:37 [csma]
Ok
16:49:02 [csma]
Action to Harold to move the MOF diagram to the relevant syntax subsection
16:49:43 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:49:43 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:50:01 [pfps]
Harold: problems with concurrent editing in WIKI
16:50:11 [agiurca]
zakim, unmute me
16:50:11 [Zakim]
agiurca should no longer be muted
16:50:42 [csma]
ACTION: Harold to move the MOF diagrams to the relevant syntax subsections
16:50:43 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-225 - Move the MOF diagrams to the relevant syntax subsections [on Harold Boley - due 2007-02-20].
16:50:57 [pfps]
Sandro: email WIKI bugs to sysreq
16:51:03 [sandro]
sysreq@w3.org
16:51:12 [agiurca]
q+
16:51:14 [sandro]
to report the wiki being down or seriously malfunctioning.
16:51:43 [pfps]
Chris: how to fix problem with WIKI-TR?
16:52:09 [csma]
q?
16:52:11 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:52:11 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:52:29 [pfps]
Chris: Sandro - run WIKI-TR and see if there are real problems
16:52:37 [csma]
q?
16:53:05 [pfps]
Harold: Can WIKI-TR handle appendices?
16:53:23 [csma]
Can we move that discussion off line?
16:53:34 [pfps]
Sandro: can handle by using single numbering
16:54:17 [csma]
q?
16:54:29 [csma]
q?
16:54:35 [csma]
ack agiurca
16:55:20 [pfps]
Adrian: need to explain mapping from BNF to abstract syntax
16:56:03 [pfps]
Harold: something needs to be done
16:56:44 [pfps]
Adrian: why do we need new syntax?
16:56:58 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:56:58 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:57:02 [pfps]
Adrian: what about sorts? are they core or not?
16:57:07 [pfps]
Michael: in core
16:57:14 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:57:14 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
16:57:24 [Harold]
"Multisorted extension" is a 'Core-internal' extension.
16:57:24 [pfps]
Adrian: then don't call this multi-sorted extensions
16:58:22 [pfps]
Adrian: what is status of "type"
16:58:30 [pfps]
Harold: missing - needs to be added
16:58:43 [pfps]
Chris: put this into an email
16:59:01 [csma]
Harold, do you want a action to add some text to explain the mapping between BNF and MOF diagram?
16:59:22 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:59:22 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:59:31 [Harold]
Adrian, attributes in BNF syntax are not wide-spread, but we could invent something.
16:59:37 [agiurca]
q-
16:59:45 [Harold]
Christian, yes.
16:59:47 [agiurca]
zakim, mute me
16:59:47 [Zakim]
agiurca should now be muted
17:00:09 [pfps]
Chris: other comments
17:00:17 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
17:00:17 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Technical Design" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:00:20 [pfps]
Chris: next item - UCR
17:00:38 [pfps]
Allen: no recent changes - reviews have been assigned
17:00:39 [csma]
action: harold to add some text in the syntax subsections to explain the mapping between BNF and MOF diagrams
17:00:40 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-226 - Add some text in the syntax subsections to explain the mapping between BNF and MOF diagrams [on Harold Boley - due 2007-02-20].
17:00:55 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
17:00:55 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
17:00:59 [pfps]
Chris: what needs to be done for final version - there are outstanding issues
17:01:25 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/open
17:02:12 [pfps]
Chris: e.g. RIF must cover OWL
17:02:34 [pfps]
Chris: F2F should cover all outstanding issues with UCR
17:03:03 [pfps]
Chris: each open UCR issue should have a plan
17:03:17 [pfps]
Alllen: OK, I'll look at them
17:03:31 [pfps]
Chris: some of them are old - and should have already been closed
17:04:28 [pfps]
Chris: we want a success - need to think about extensions as well
17:04:44 [pfps]
Chris: this WILL come up at the F2F - be prepared
17:05:01 [Zakim]
-Leora_Morgenstern
17:05:14 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
17:05:15 [pfps]
Chris: action conclusion and summary - 215 - open
17:05:16 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
17:05:42 [pfps]
Allen: deferred to final version, work on phase 2 first
17:05:49 [csma]
I do
17:06:07 [pfps]
Chris: opinions either way?
17:06:09 [csma]
we should have a conclusion in the next WD
17:06:30 [pfps]
CSMA: we should have conclusion and summary now
17:07:00 [pfps]
Chris: OK, Allen can you do that
17:07:06 [pfps]
Allen: I'll try
17:07:13 [csma]
zakim, �ute me
17:07:13 [Zakim]
I don't understand '�ute me', csma
17:07:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute csma
17:07:18 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
17:07:20 [csma]
zakim, mute me
17:07:20 [Zakim]
csma was already muted, csma
17:07:24 [PaulaP]
q+
17:07:33 [PaulaP]
m7 zakim, unmute me
17:07:45 [ChrisW]
ack paulap
17:08:16 [pfps]
Paula: how should Phase 2 requirements be gathered?
17:08:26 [pfps]
Chris: good question - Allen?
17:08:33 [pfps]
Allen: no opinion
17:08:50 [pfps]
Chris: start new WIKI page - as before
17:08:57 [pfps]
Paula: I will help if needed
17:09:03 [ChrisW]
action paula to start phase 2 wiki page
17:09:07 [pfps]
Chris: ACTION Paula set up new WIKI page
17:09:13 [csma]
ACTION: PaulaP to start a new wiki page for phase 2 reqs
17:09:13 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - PaulaP
17:09:28 [ChrisW]
action: paula to start phase 2 wiki page
17:09:28 [pfps]
Chris: <sarcasm deleted>
17:09:28 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - paula
17:09:41 [AxelPolleres]
q+
17:09:43 [ChrisW]
zakim, rifraf
17:09:43 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'rifraf', ChrisW
17:09:48 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
17:09:49 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ChrisW
17:09:50 [pfps]
Chris: next item - RIFRAF
17:09:56 [ChrisW]
ack axel
17:09:58 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
17:09:58 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "UCR" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:10:47 [pfps]
Axel: problems with aligning different stuff with UML diagrams
17:10:55 [pfps]
Axel: would like to go higher-level
17:11:22 [pfps]
Axel: no feedback so far
17:11:43 [pfps]
Chris: Leora will be at F2F, but not other RIFRAFers
17:11:58 [pfps]
Chris: what to discuss at meeting?
17:12:09 [pfps]
Axel: I will try to attend by phone.
17:13:06 [pfps]
Chris: Metamodel discussion is scheduled, RIFRAF also, these are the important ones
17:13:23 [pfps]
Chris: how much time to allot?
17:13:31 [pfps]
Axel: depends on other people!
17:13:56 [pfps]
Chris: will put email on list of to-be-read
17:14:02 [pfps]
Axel: should I prepare slides?
17:14:07 [pfps]
Chris: YES!!!!!!!!!!!
17:14:27 [pfps]
Axel: will produce something by Monday
17:14:36 [ChrisW]
action: axel to send slides on proposed rifraf ontology
17:14:36 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-227 - Send slides on proposed rifraf ontology [on Axel Polleres - due 2007-02-20].
17:15:06 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
17:15:06 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "RIFRAF" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:15:15 [pfps]
Chris: other business - going once, going twice, gone
17:15:20 [PaulaP]
+1
17:15:21 [csma]
+1
17:15:22 [Zakim]
-IgorMozetic
17:15:26 [Zakim]
-PaulVincent
17:15:27 [Allen]
bye
17:15:30 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
17:15:31 [Zakim]
-StellaMitchell
17:15:31 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
17:15:32 [PaulaP]
bye
17:15:32 [Zakim]
-DavidHirtle
17:15:33 [Zakim]
-Dave_Reynolds
17:15:34 [Zakim]
-Harold
17:15:34 [johnhall]
Bye
17:15:34 [pfps]
Chris: DONE
17:15:35 [Zakim]
-PaulaP
17:15:35 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make mintues
17:15:35 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make mintues', ChrisW. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:15:36 [Zakim]
-josb
17:15:37 [Zakim]
-Allen_Ginsberg
17:15:38 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has left #rif
17:15:45 [Zakim]
-Sandro
17:15:48 [Zakim]
-johnhall
17:15:50 [Zakim]
-Michael_Kifer
17:16:12 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:16:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma (muted), ChrisW, agiurca (muted), pfps
17:16:20 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:16:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:17:29 [Zakim]
-pfps
17:17:36 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
17:17:36 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
17:17:38 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:17:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, agiurca (muted)
17:17:46 [agiurca]
-agiurca
17:17:51 [Zakim]
-agiurca
17:18:10 [csma]
csma has left #rif
17:21:08 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
17:21:12 [Zakim]
-csma
17:21:14 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:21:16 [Zakim]
Attendees were +39.022.399.aaaa, csma, Harold, ChrisW, IgorMozetic, josb, PaulaP, agiurca, Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro, StellaMitchell, DavidHirtle, Dave_Reynolds, Leora_Morgenstern,
17:21:18 [Zakim]
... pfps, PaulVincent, Michael_Kifer, Gary_Hallmark, johnhall, AxelPolleres
17:21:20 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:21:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:21:27 [ChrisW]
oops
17:21:56 [ChrisW]
Regrets: Fran�oisBry DeborahNichols MarkusKr�tzsch MohamedZergaoui (IRC only) IgorMozetic
17:22:05 [ChrisW]
Scribe: Peter Patel-Schneider
17:22:10 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:22:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:23:07 [ChrisW]
ok, give it a sec - that should be it