IRC log of ws-desc on 2007-01-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:54:21 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #ws-desc
14:54:21 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-irc
14:54:26 [Jonathan]: RRSAgent, set log world
14:55:43 [Jonathan]: zakim, list conferences
14:55:43 [Zakim]: I see Math_IG()10:00AM, Team_(legal)14:07Z active
14:55:44 [Zakim]: also scheduled at this time are DI_DIWG(dpf)10:00AM, Team_Global(review)8:00AM, WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM
14:55:51 [Jonathan]: Zakim, this will be WSDL
14:55:53 [Zakim]: ok, Jonathan; I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:57:47 [TonyR]: TonyR has joined #ws-desc
14:58:29 [plh]: plh has joined #ws-desc
14:59:14 [Zakim]: WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has now started
14:59:16 [Zakim]: +Plh
14:59:55 [Zakim]: +??P6
14:59:57 [Zakim]: -??P6
15:00:05 [Zakim]: +??P6
15:00:11 [TonyR]: zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:17 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Plh, ??P6
15:00:33 [TonyR]: zakim, ??p6 is me
15:00:33 [Zakim]: +TonyR; got it
15:01:20 [plh]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/Dashboard.html
15:01:35 [Zakim]: +Jonathan_Marsh
15:02:17 [Zakim]: + +44.179.451.aaaa
15:02:30 [plh]: zakim, aaaa is John
15:02:30 [Zakim]: +John; got it
15:02:53 [jkaputin]: jkaputin has joined #ws-desc
15:04:47 [Zakim]: +Arthur
15:08:14 [Marsh]: Marsh has joined #ws-desc
15:11:12 [Marsh]: zakim, code?
15:11:12 [Zakim]: the conference code is 9735 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Marsh
15:11:49 [Zakim]: +Canon
15:11:56 [Zakim]: +Ruchith_Fernando
15:12:32 [keith]: keith has joined #ws-desc
15:12:51 [jjm]: jjm has joined #ws-desc
15:13:03 [Marsh]: Zakim, Ruchith is Keith
15:13:03 [Zakim]: +Keith; got it
15:21:54 [Jonathan]: Jonathan has joined #ws-desc
15:34:15 [Zakim]: -Arthur
15:38:38 [plh]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/results-messages/MessageTest-4G/log-MessageTest4G-canon-canon-results.html#message1
15:42:16 [plh]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20-adjuncts.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#_http_operation_multipart_encoding
15:42:56 [plh]: "This format serializes the instance data in the HTTP message body, making it only suitable for HTTP requests using methods allowing message bodies."
15:43:48 [Jonathan]: Jonathan has joined #ws-desc
15:44:23 [plh]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20-adjuncts.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#_http_operation_multipart_encoding
15:44:26 [plh]: "This format serializes the instance data in the HTTP message body, making it only suitable for HTTP requests using methods allowing message bodies."
15:44:39 [plh]: "In this serialization, for HTTP requests, the rules for constructing the HTTP request IRI defined in 6.7.1 Serialization of the instance data in parts of the HTTP request IRI apply if the {style} property of the Interface Operation bound has a value of "http://www.w3.org/@@@@/@@/wsdl/style/iri" as defined in 4.2 IRI Style."
15:45:49 [plh]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/results-messages/MessageTest-2G/log-MessageTest2G-canon-canon-results.html#message17
15:48:02 [Jonathan]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0058.html
16:01:33 [monica]: monica has joined #ws-desc
16:01:59 [monica]: will only be able to join today via irc - conflicts
16:02:29 [plh]: zakim, list conferences
16:02:29 [Zakim]: I see Math_IG()10:00AM, WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM, XML_PMWG()11:00AM, WAI_Team()10:45AM active
16:02:31 [Zakim]: also scheduled at this time are DIG_TAMI()11:00AM, GA_WebCGM()11:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, WS_DescWG()11:00AM
16:02:32 [Zakim]: -Plh
16:02:33 [Zakim]: -John
16:02:35 [Zakim]: -TonyR
16:02:37 [Zakim]: -Jonathan_Marsh
16:02:41 [Zakim]: -Canon
16:02:43 [Allen]: Allen has joined #ws-desc
16:02:51 [plh]: zakim, this will be WS_DescWG()11:00AM
16:03:02 [Zakim]: ok, plh; I see WS_DescWG()11:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
16:03:21 [Zakim]: WS_DescWG()11:00AM has now started
16:03:22 [Zakim]: +Plh
16:03:33 [Zakim]: +Allen_Brookes
16:03:39 [Zakim]: +??P0
16:03:46 [TonyR]: zakim, ??p0 is me
16:03:46 [Zakim]: +TonyR; got it
16:03:48 [JacekK]: JacekK has joined #ws-desc
16:04:15 [Zakim]: +John
16:04:32 [Zakim]: +Canon
16:04:58 [Zakim]: +Jonathan_Marsh
16:05:10 [Jonathan]: zakim, who's on the phone?
16:05:10 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Plh, Allen_Brookes, TonyR, John, Canon, Jonathan_Marsh
16:05:34 [Zakim]: +JacekK
16:05:46 [Zakim]: +Roberto
16:06:10 [asir]: asir has joined #ws-desc
16:07:10 [Zakim]: +asir
16:07:55 [plh]: Meeting: Web Services Description Meeting
16:07:59 [plh]: Chair: Jonathan
16:08:03 [plh]: Scribe: plh
16:08:11 [plh]: Topic: minutes from last week
16:08:20 [plh]: Minutes approved
16:08:25 [plh]: Topic: Action items
16:09:36 [plh]: [DONE] 2007-01-04: Charlton to come up with a list of editorial comments and WSDL substantive issues.
16:09:45 [plh]: Topic: Draft comments for WS-Policy
16:09:58 [Jonathan]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0071.html
16:10:24 [Zakim]: +??P8
16:10:32 [plh]: Jonathan: let's skip the editorial issues
16:10:36 [Jonathan]: zakim, P8 is Charlton
16:10:36 [Zakim]: sorry, Jonathan, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'
16:10:39 [Jonathan]: zakim, ??P8 is Charlton
16:10:39 [Zakim]: +Charlton; got it
16:11:40 [plh]: ... let's look at number 11, policy intersection
16:12:05 [Zakim]: -Roberto
16:12:56 [plh]: Charlton: this is relevant to the client, not strictly relevant to WSDL. Don't see anything to select the intersection mode selection.
16:13:31 [plh]: ... if one entity understands one mode and an other is being required by the other entity, the intersection won't occur.
16:13:53 [plh]: Jonathan: so, if I would attach a policy to WSDL, should we have a mode as well?
16:13:56 [plh]: q+
16:14:30 [plh]: Charlton: if you want someone to always apply lax, there is no mechanism for that for the moment.
16:14:42 [Zakim]: + +1.650.786.aaaa
16:14:56 [jjm]: jjm has joined #ws-desc
16:15:04 [jjm]: zakim, where am I?
16:15:04 [Zakim]: I don't understand your question, jjm.
16:15:07 [plh]: ... there should be a mechanism for expressing this.
16:15:18 [jjm]: rrsagent, where am I?
16:15:18 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-irc#T16-15-18
16:16:32 [charltonb]: charltonb has joined #ws-desc
16:17:09 [asir]: q+
16:17:29 [Jonathan]: ack plh
16:17:31 [charltonb]: q+
16:17:44 [Roberto]: Roberto has joined #ws-desc
16:18:01 [Jonathan]: ack asir
16:18:10 [plh]: Philippe: this is up to the client to use one or the other intersection mode
16:18:37 [plh]: Asir: it's at the discretion of the requester. I don't see this as a WSDL issue
16:18:54 [Jonathan]: ack charlton
16:19:50 [plh]: Charlton: not trying to express that anyone other than the client can pick the mode, but the service might want to indicate which one to pick.
16:20:03 [plh]: Jonathan: be isn't ignorable the mode?
16:20:04 [Zakim]: +Monica_Martin
16:20:44 [plh]: Philippe: if you don't want the client to ignore your assertions, then don't use ignorable.
16:21:15 [monica]: q+
16:21:48 [plh]: Jonathan: we would need a more developed use case to see the interop problem, but this seems a policy issue
16:21:49 [Jonathan]: ack monica
16:22:26 [plh]: Monica: some parts of the discussion will be handled in other documents in WS-Policy. Maybe that will help Charlton on this issue.
16:22:44 [plh]: Charlton: I'm happy not including this in the WSDL comments.
16:22:57 [Zakim]: +Gilbert_Pilz
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16:23:21 [plh]: Charlton: Number 12 is already filed as an issue in WS-Policy but we're expressing interest in it.
16:23:44 [plh]: ... the issue is about how to map parameters in policy attachments to WSDL 2.0.
16:24:08 [plh]: Asir: is this a Last Call issue or an issue about the WSDL 1.1 Element identifiers?
16:24:18 [plh]: Charlton: this is a last call issue?
16:24:24 [plh]: s/\?//
16:25:20 [plh]: ... it's a fragid issue.
16:26:13 [plh]: Jonathan: I suggest we include it in the mail, as a side remark.
16:26:52 [plh]: ... I'll file the issues on behalf of the WSDL WG.
16:27:04 [plh]: ... all editorials. not 11.
16:27:35 [plh]: ... I'll leave the observations in this WG.
16:27:51 [plh]: ACTIOn: Jonathan to send WS-Policy comments to the WS-Policy WG
16:28:42 [plh]: Topic: Interchange format draft note
16:28:45 [plh]: Postponed
16:28:57 [plh]: Topic: MTOM Description
16:28:59 [Jonathan]: http://www.w3.org/Submission/2006/SUBM-WS-MTOMPolicy-20061101/
16:29:17 [plh]: Jonathan: W3C ack'd a submission on the MTOM policy assertion
16:31:47 [plh]: Philippe: will be sent to XMLP. I *think* they want to work on this on the REC track.
16:32:08 [plh]: ... the XMLP WG will need a new charter if they do so.
16:32:54 [plh]: Jonathan: following-up on this, I thought Canon was going to investigate the use of the MTOM policy assertion. Any news?
16:33:05 [plh]: Jean-Jacques: no news yet.
16:34:32 [plh]: Jonathan: the interesting point is if it is difficult to implement a WS-Policy that can only support one policy assertion.
16:35:17 [plh]: Jean-Jacques: if we parse it, and check if the infoset only contains a subset, would that work?
16:35:36 [plh]: Jonathan: you also want to support the PolicyReference element, which is the practice
16:35:50 [plh]: ... you also want to reject policy you don't understand.
16:36:02 [plh]: Jean-Jacques: a bit more complex than XPath...
16:36:49 [plh]: Jonathan: I also don't understand the resources constraint you're facing
16:37:55 [plh]: ... could one use XSLT to transform the policy into a direct WSDL extension?
16:38:18 [plh]: ... if that's true, the information content is equivalenet
16:38:24 [plh]: s/lenet/lent/
16:39:10 [plh]: ... Paul's proposal was to annotate the policies. Asir's proposal was that we don't need to annotate them at all.
16:40:33 [plh]: ACTION: Jean-Jacques to provide more analysis on how difficult it would deal with a Policy that only contains an MTOM policy assertion
16:41:20 [plh]: s/would/would be/
16:42:47 [plh]: Topic: CR122
16:43:06 [plh]: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR122
16:50:41 [plh]: John: 6.7.2.2.2 talks about ignoreUncited. If the HTTP PUT or POST then the remainder gets serialized in the message body anyway, not repeated in the URI. So the use of the property isn't relevant here.
16:51:30 [plh]: Jonathan: should we clarify that data could be thrown away?
16:52:24 [plh]: ... you're not only preventing the data from appearing in the URI, but you can also prevent it from appearing in the HTTP Body
16:52:33 [plh]: ... Youenn got the correct behavior
16:54:02 [plh]: ... I do believe it would be possible to write some WSDL that wouldn't interop because of implementation limitations.
16:54:50 [plh]: Jonathan: yes, it is the expected behavior. The user might trip on this. Closed with no action.
16:54:57 [Zakim]: -Monica_Martin
16:55:00 [plh]: Resolution: close with no action
16:55:16 [plh]: Topic: CR130
16:55:25 [plh]: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR130
16:55:26 [Zakim]: +m2
16:55:32 [Zakim]: -Charlton
16:55:40 [monica]: nick /monica
16:56:32 [plh]: John: I had to make some decision on how to associate the tokens I find with the string
16:56:46 [Zakim]: -asir
16:56:54 [plh]: ... should the spec be more specific?
16:57:16 [Jonathan]: Jonathan has joined #ws-desc
16:57:28 [jkaputin]: whttp:location="{{{town}}}"
16:58:13 [jkaputin]: {{,{town},}}
16:58:22 [jkaputin]: {{,{,town,}},}
16:58:38 [plh]: John: two ways to interpret the example.
16:58:41 [Roberto]: I'd say it's '{' + value of town + '}'
16:58:48 [plh]: +1
16:59:30 [plh]: John: with a strategy that looks for matching curly braces first, the example will be ok.
17:00:01 [plh]: s/curly/par curly/
17:00:20 [plh]: Jonathan: the proposal is to match the pair of curly braces first.
17:00:47 [plh]: Tony: I can't see a grammar where the second result would be correct
17:01:05 [Roberto]: q+
17:02:03 [Jonathan]: ack roberto
17:02:53 [plh]: Jonathan: is there a common algorithm we can point to?
17:03:01 [plh]: John: don't know any
17:03:50 [plh]: Philippe: don't try using regular expression to handle http:location, you need a parser and a state table
17:04:07 [plh]: {{town}}
17:05:54 [plh]: ACTIOn: Philippe to propose a grammar for http:location
17:06:12 [plh]: Topic: CR131
17:06:19 [plh]: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR131
17:09:03 [plh]: John: should we deal with infault elements as well?
17:09:15 [plh]: Jonathan: the binding only works for the 3 MEPs
17:09:31 [plh]: ... you can say that it applies to the infault in your extension as well.
17:10:50 [plh]: Resolution: the HTTP 1.1 Binding aplies only to the 3 MEPs we have in the spec. Closed with no action
17:10:55 [plh]: Topic: CR 133
17:11:34 [plh]: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR133
17:12:30 [plh]: Jonathan: For the SOAP response MEP the immediate destination is "the value of the WSDL {address} property, modified by the {http location} property following the rules described in section 6.7.2 Serialization as application/x-www-form-urlencoded."
17:12:41 [plh]: ... is it intentional that we are ignoring http:location?
17:13:54 [plh]: "the SOAP request-response MEP the immediate destination is "the value of the WSDL {address} property of the Endpoint component."" . is it intentional that we are ignoring http:location?
17:14:16 [plh]: John: so instance data would be serialized in the IRI
17:14:26 [plh]: Jonathan: yes, but the full XML would still be part of the SOAP Body
17:14:48 [plh]: John: might be useful in gateway/middleware scenarios
17:15:55 [plh]: ... so you don't have to parse the message body but still want to do dispatch
17:16:26 [plh]: Jonathan: didn't see any reason to have it the way it is.
17:17:36 [plh]: Proposal: the SOAP request-response MEP immediate destination is the value of the
17:17:36 [plh]: WSDL {address} property, modified by the {http location} property following the
17:17:36 [plh]: rules described in section 6.7.2 Serialization as application/x-www-form-urlencoded. The entire instance data is seralized in the SOAP Body.
17:17:52 [plh]: s/sera/seria/
17:18:57 [plh]: Resolution: proposal adopted.
17:19:02 [plh]: Topic: CR 140
17:19:56 [plh]: John: What happens if the MEP allows multiple input messages or infaults as well as input messages?
17:20:34 [plh]: ... there is an issue on how to associate the element name with the input data.
17:20:51 [plh]: Jonathan: we only define the property for the 3 MEPs.
17:20:57 [plh]: Resolution: closed.
17:21:51 [plh]: Topic: CR 141
17:22:09 [plh]: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR141
17:23:29 [plh]: Jonathan: this is a duplicate of 130 since Philippe will come up with a grammar.
17:24:20 [plh]: Resolution: will be resolved with the resolution of 130. Closed (duplicate).
17:24:45 [monica]: monica has joined #ws-desc
17:25:31 [plh]: Topic: CR119
17:25:42 [plh]: wsdl:binding/wsdl:operation/@whttp:queryParameterSeparator is missing in
17:25:42 [plh]: the HTTP binding syntax summary while present in section 6.4.4.
17:26:03 [plh]: Resolution: agreed. needs to be fixed.
17:26:15 [plh]: Topic: CR 120
17:27:10 [plh]: Jonathan: It does make sense to add #none
17:28:06 [plh]: ... the SOAP Response MEP can only be used with the IRI style or with an input message of #none.
17:28:19 [plh]: ... sounds reasonable.
17:28:34 [plh]: Resolution: agreed. Needs to be fixed.
17:28:46 [plh]: Topic: CR 121
17:29:03 [plh]: Support for deprecation.
17:30:05 [plh]: Resolution: could be done through extensibility or in V.Next. Closed.
17:30:43 [Zakim]: -John
17:30:44 [Zakim]: -Jonathan_Marsh
17:30:45 [Zakim]: -Allen_Brookes
17:30:45 [Zakim]: -Roberto
17:30:47 [Zakim]: -m2
17:30:47 [Zakim]: -Plh
17:30:48 [Zakim]: -Canon
17:30:51 [Zakim]: -TonyR
17:31:00 [Zakim]: -JacekK
17:32:25 [TonyR]: TonyR has left #ws-desc
17:36:01 [Zakim]: disconnecting the lone participant, Gilbert_Pilz, in WS_DescWG()11:00AM
17:36:05 [Zakim]: WS_DescWG()11:00AM has ended
17:36:06 [Zakim]: Attendees were Plh, Allen_Brookes, TonyR, John, Canon, Jonathan_Marsh, JacekK, Roberto, asir, Charlton, +1.650.786.aaaa, Monica_Martin, Gilbert_Pilz, m2
17:40:18 [Jonathan]: rrsagent, draft minutes
17:40:18 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html Jonathan
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21:29:35 [plh]: rrsagent, bye
21:29:35 [RRSAgent]: I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-actions.rdf :
21:29:35 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Jonathan to send WS-Policy comments to the WS-Policy WG [1]
21:29:35 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-irc#T16-27-51
21:29:35 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Jean-Jacques to provide more analysis on how difficult it would deal with a Policy that only contains an MTOM policy assertion [2]
21:29:35 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-irc#T16-40-33
21:29:35 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Philippe to propose a grammar for http:location [3]
21:29:35 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-irc#T17-05-54