RIF Telecon 21 Nov 06 -- 21 Nov 2006

<ChrisW> Stella, can you scribe today?

yes

<ChrisW> thanks

<ChrisW> Scribe: Stella Mitchell

<ChrisW> scribenick: StellaMitchell

<AlexKozlenkov> I can't hear anyone talking

<csma> Ok, I will do action tracking

<AlexKozlenkov> OK now

chris: propose to cancel next week's telcom because chairs cannot attend
... any objections? no

<csma> yes

<sandro> (It conflicts with W3C AC meeting)

chrisw: Nov 28th telcon is cancelled

<csma> continued

chris: action-165 continued

Admin'

<csma> I did not either

<PaulaP> no, Francois is not here but I can ask him about the minutes

<csma> action-165 continued

<csma> action-171 continued

chrisw: still need minutes from last week's telecon

F2F

chrisw: there is still another week for people to propose f2f5 alternatives

<PaulaP> Francois told me he sent the minutes for the last telecon, but apparently there were some problems in receiving the emails from him

allen: regarding mitre, room is reserved for feb 26-28
... early march is not possible

<ChrisW> Dates proposed: Feb26-28

chrisw: only one proposal so far for f2f5 and f2f6
... f2f5: mitre

<josb> I put the possible dates for f2f6 in Innsbruck around the ESWC on the wiki

chrisw: f2f6 deri, Austria

<josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F6

chrisw: correction: there is a 2nd proposal for f2f5: Jan, at MIT

<csma> action-121 done

action-183 done

<csma> action-122 done

<csma> action-183 done

paula: just sent out minutes from last week

chrisw: see url above from Jos for f2f6

Liason

<PaulVincent> PRR: no news

Technical Design

<sandro> ZAY-kim ZAY-kim ZAY-kim. :-)

<Hassan> yes

action-152 continued

action-153 done

<csma> action-142 continued

sandro: i might not get to action-156

chrisw: any volunteers to take over action-156 from Sandro?

frank: uc5 may not be able to be done in the core syntax

<Allen> Here is the URL for the email on action 153 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Nov/0009

sandro: all UC will probably involve some extensions

chris: the point is to see what you can and cannot express with core

csma: yes, to help identify extensions needed

<AxelPolleres> +1 to csma for part of the exercises is to write down what is missing in the core and maybe propose what could be added

frank: : I will take the action-156

<csma> action-156 reassigned to Frank

action-157 continuted

action-159 continued

<PaulaP> my action is ALMOST done, so continued :)

action-160 continued

<AlexKozlenkov> It is continued

action-170 continued

action-180 done

action-182 continued

action-184 continued

<Hassan> closed

action-185 done

action-186 continued

action-188 continued

chris: most minutes from fsf4 are on the f2f4 wiki page

sandro: when to we have to approve them?

<Hassan> Some poste the URL please?

<LeoraMorgenstern> IBM is temporarily me

chris: they are not quite finished yet, but main ones are there
... after they are completed, there will be 1 week to approve them
... first main issue for discussion are the changes to the core that Harold made
... in response to resolutions from f2f4

<csma> draft minutes for F2F4, see F2F4 wiki http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F4

<LeoraMorgenstern> please mute me

harold: 2 parts that could be seperated: slots seperately from optional constraints

<ChrisW> "slots" in this case refers to "keyword arguments" (as opposed to positional)

1st part:

2nd: part optional constraint only on rule part or on condtion part also?

hassan: contraints views of terms and slotted terms are just like rdf
... can have a hybrid syntax with "dot" on term also

csma: text on the wiki is correct? yes

hassan: but in slides and emails there is an error
... it's x.1 not f.1 (?)

chrisw: is it correct that condition language is a keyword language?

hassan: it's a convenience to avoid verbose syntax

csma: which is the most general?

hassan: constraints

chris: several people requested more concrete version of this proposal before they could accept

alex: have not had a chance to evaluate the proposal yet

<josb> I withdrew my skepticism, after I finally understood the presentation, after Chris' clarification at the face-to-face

<josb> Yes

chris: are there comments from anyone else on this proposal?
... we will have to vote on it soon

<csma> +1 to a 1st WD before end of year!!!

<AlexKozlenkov> The Hassan proposal looks good although I would like to see more links to claims about relation to reactivity

chris: there were email discussions on extensibility, kicked off by Sandro
... one of the requirements is that the core language must be extensible

<Hassan> hak -> alex: we first concentrate on Horn, then move to other kinds. Proof theory is one way (HHF)

chris: important part of phase 1 work is to understand the extensibility mechanism

<AlexKozlenkov> alex -> hak: agreed, but you are saying nice things about the basis being there already, which is good but more detils would be nice to have

sandro: we talked about extensibility last week
... how to you characterize what will go wrong if you ignore part of the syntax that you don't understand

<Hassan> hak -> alex: point taken - I will provide what I know, and will take it from there

csma: I just sent an email related to this. we need something more general that "body implies head"
... also, we do not have a resolution on ??

chris: we will take it offline and look through the minutes

<AlexKozlenkov> It would help my action point about extensibility

RIF-RAF

<csma> ...on having a common syntax for all dialects

action-148 continued

action-172 continued

<Hassan> continued

action-173 continued

action-174 continued

<AxelPolleres> Action continued!

action-175 continued

action-176 continued

<PaulaP> continued

action-177 continued

action-179 continued

<Hassan> thanks

chris: any other things to report on RIFRAF? Leora or Axel?

<AxelPolleres> not at the moment... I start working on it intensively this thu

<LeoraMorgenstern> I"m here

<LeoraMorgenstern> I don't know why you can't hear me.

<LeoraMorgenstern> No, nothing to report on rifraf.

UCR

action-38 continued

action-41 done

<LeoraMorgenstern> typo above: that should "I don't know why you can't hear me"

action-106 complete

action-144 continued

chris: Paul, can you take a look at the current draft and send your comments to Allen

paul: yes

<Hassan> I know continued

action-169 continued

action-181 continued

chris: allen, what is status for the UC document?

<PaulVincent> ACTION-131 was completed and reported on last month...

allen: a main thing that needs to be done is to limit the requirements that need to be linked to

paula: I already did that - with UC 2

<ChrisW> ACTION: Allen to send email to link use cases to requirements based on Paula's draft of UC2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<rifbot> Created ACTION-189 - Send email to link use cases to requirements based on Paula\'s draft of UC2 [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2006-11-28].

chris: need definition of "covers" finished
... are functional vs. non-functional reqquirements discussed in the doc?

allen: yes

csma: I think it is confusing the way it is written

chris and csma: can the general requirements be listed first?

allen: ok, and also will remove them from the phase sections

<ChrisW> ACTION: allen to move "general" requirements to beginning of section and remove duplicates [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-rif-minutes.html#action02]

<rifbot> Created ACTION-190 - Move \"general\" requirements to beginning of section and remove duplicates [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2006-11-28].

chris: I will review break out minutes to double check
... any other comments on UCR?
... none
... next telecon will be on Dec 5th

<ChrisW> next telecon Dec 5

<PaulaP> +1

<Hassan> +1

<FrankMcCabe> happy thanksgiving folks

<PaulaP> bye

- DRAFT -

RIF Telecon 21 Nov 06

21 Nov 2006

Attendees

Contents

Admin'

F2F

Liason

Technical Design

RIF-RAF

UCR

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output