<ChrisW> Scribe: Gerd Wagner

<ChrisW> scribenick: GerdWagner

<agiurca> Zakim G is agiurca

<agiurca> thanks

<agiurca> ok

Admin

<ChrisW> approved Oct 17 telecon minutes

F2F

<josb> http://www.georgiacenter.uga.edu/hotel/directions.phtml#Shuttle

<AxelPolleres> Can you post these alternatives to the list/wiki?

<ChrisWelty> pfps: no remote support planned

<ChrisWelty> csma: no one has indicated interested in remote participation

Liason

Technical Design

<pfps> http://www.georgiacenter.uga.edu/conferences/about/directions.phtml has information on ground transport to and from Atlanta

<ChrisWelty> action 120 complete

<ChrisWelty> action 141 complete

<ChrisWelty> action 142 continued

<PaulaP> CONTINUED

<pfps> http://www.aaaairportexpress.com/routes/athens.html has the AAA express schedule and phone numbers

<ChrisWelty> action 161 complete

<ChrisWelty> action 162 complete

<JeffP> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UC7_Worked_Example

<ChrisWelty> action 155 complete

<DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UC8_Worked_Example

csma: there are now several alternative proposals for the condition language

<ChrisWelty> hassan's proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Oct/0083.html

hassan: my proposal is compatible but slightly more abstract than the Boley et al proposal
... separate "data model" and rules

harold: feature terms would be an important addition

<Harold> Slotted syntax: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/charter#xml-syntax

<Harold> "In order to allow interoperability with RDF and object-oriented systems, the syntax must support named arguments (also called "role" or "slot" names), allowing n-ary facts, rules, and queries to be provided through property/value interfaces."

<ChrisWelty> ACTION: harold to work with Hassan to reconcile two proposals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<rifbot> Created ACTION-163 - Work with Hassan to reconcile two proposals [on Harold Boley - due 2006-11-07].

csma: the purpose of my proposal is to trigger thinking about a RIF that is different than Harold et al's
... RIF should allow the interchange of PRs and LP rules where possible

<Harold> Christian, are we talking about semantics or about 'pragmatics', then?

<Harold> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics

csma: the same rule could be formalized/used as a LP rule with stable model emantics of as a PR with a different semantics

<Harold> Pragmatics is also a bit in the RIFRAF, but not quite enough. Interoperation can be seen as part of it.

dave: how are going to capture meaning without formal semantics?

csma: the extreme would be to leave semantics outside of RIF
... in many practical cases you do not care about the precise meaning of a rule

<ChrisWelty> gerd: the current core proposal is for the condition language, but csma proposal is not

<Hassan> +1 with Gerd

josb: csma, if you don't specify the semantic of rules how can you interchange?

<AxelPolleres> +1 to that model-theoretic semantics is the way to capture the agreed minimal smeantics.

csma: even in phase 1 we should be able to interchange not only Horn rules but also PRs

<Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask about test cases, and their differences

sandro: would csma's proposla give us different test cases than Harold et al's?

<sandro> sandro: so you're not TRYING to achieve any different test-case results?

<sandro> csma: Right -- It's not clear to me from the current proposal how it's possible to interchange the kind of rules we need

csma: LP semantics may not capture interchange

<AxelPolleres> I think this is what we do with the current use cases mapping to th RCL?!????!?!????

<Zakim> DaveReynolds, you wanted to respond to Sandro's point on test cases

hassan: everyone may provide test cases

axel: is your proposal an alternative or an extension?

csma: my point is I have some kind of test cases in mind and the are not covered

dave: I didn't view my proposal as an alternative
... rdf would help with extensibility

<sandro> silence?

<pfps> i'm not convinced about the utility of RDF with respect to this sort of extensibility

<Harold> Peter, didn't you also work on a unified data model, bringing together RDF's OO modeling with XML's positional one?

csma: your proposal seems to contain some elements where it goes beyond the Boley et al proposal

<pfps> Yes, I did some work on allowing XML documents to be considered as RDF data

hassan: rdf allows to represent any data models

<Harold> I was thinking of allowing both XML-like, positional Herbrand data terms and RDF-like, feature/slot data terms.

csma: what about trial implementations?

RIF-RAF

<ChrisWelty> ACTION: gary to fix typo in minutes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-rif-minutes.html#action02]

<rifbot> Created ACTION-164 - Fix typo in minutes [on Gary Hallmark - due 2006-11-07].

UCR

csma: action x continued

<Allen> done

<ChrisWelty> action 143 complete

action 144 cont

action 147 completed

<Hassan> +1 for adjourning

<sandro> or we could talk about Saturday Morning's plans.....

<sandro> or parties Friday night? L-)

<Hassan> Or both?

<PaulaP> +1

<JeffP> +1

<Allen> bye

<PaulaP> bye

<JeffP> see you

<DaveReynolds> bye

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127  of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Gerd Wagner
Found ScribeNick: GerdWagner
Default Present: csma, Harold, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Deborah_Nichols, GerdWagner, Allen_Ginsberg, JeffP, PaulaP, Axel_Polleres, josb, Sandro
Present: csma Harold Hassan_Ait-Kaci Deborah_Nichols GerdWagner Allen_Ginsberg JeffP PaulaP Axel_Polleres josb Sandro
Regrets: IgorMozetic MichaelKifer PaulVincent FrançoisBry MarkusKrötzsch MichaelSintek ElisaKendall
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Oct/0112.html
Got date from IRC log name: 31 Oct 2006
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-rif-minutes.html
People with action items: gary harold