IRC log of dawg on 2006-10-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:18:57 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:18:57 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc

14:19:02 [kendallclark]

zakim, this will be dawg

14:19:03 [Zakim]

ok, kendallclark; I see WS_DBWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 41 minutes

14:19:11 [kendallclark]

damn

14:19:29 [kendallclark]

i think i have to tell it something special because of time change in the US :(

14:19:30 [LeeF]

time change?

14:19:47 [LeeF]

Sounds like a problem for ericP

14:20:03 [kendallclark]

yeah

14:20:34 [kendallclark]

zakim, what conferences?

14:20:34 [Zakim]

I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM active

14:20:35 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time are MM_InkML()9:00AM, GA_SVGWG()9:30AM, VB_VBPAG()9:00AM

14:20:49 [AndyS]

41 mins is 15:00Z which is neither old nor new - we aren't DBWG are we?

14:20:55 [kendallclark]

No

14:21:10 [kendallclark]

zakim, what conferences do you see?

14:21:10 [Zakim]

I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM active

14:21:12 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time are MM_InkML()9:00AM, GA_SVGWG()9:30AM, VB_VBPAG()9:00AM

14:21:20 [LeeF]

zakim, do we exist?

14:21:20 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, LeeF.

14:21:36 [kendallclark]

zakim, what conference is this?

14:21:36 [Zakim]

this will be WS_DBWG()10:00AM conference code 3294, kendallclark

14:21:46 [kendallclark]

-sigh-

14:21:49 [kendallclark]

that ain't gonna work

14:21:56 [LeeF]

zakim, reschedule DAWG to start in 9 minutes

14:21:56 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'reschedule DAWG to start in 9 minutes', LeeF

14:23:03 [AndyS]

zakim, work out the semantics and email Jorge please

14:23:03 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'work out the semantics and email Jorge', AndyS

14:23:28 [kendallclark]

zakim, leave

14:23:28 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dawg

14:23:36 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #dawg

14:23:43 [kendallclark]

zakim, what conferences?

14:23:43 [Zakim]

I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM active

14:23:44 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time are MM_InkML()9:00AM, GA_SVGWG()9:30AM, VB_VBPAG()9:00AM

14:23:53 [kendallclark]

damn, it doesn't have a big window, does it

14:24:08 [kendallclark]

zakim, help

14:24:08 [Zakim]

Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.

14:24:11 [Zakim]

Some of the commands I know are:

14:24:12 [Zakim]

xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx

14:24:14 [Zakim]

if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted

14:24:16 [Zakim]

xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx

14:24:19 [Zakim]

I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx

14:24:21 [Zakim]

xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group

14:24:23 [Zakim]

xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx

14:24:26 [Zakim]

who's here? - lists the participants on the phone

14:24:28 [Zakim]

who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted

14:24:30 [Zakim]

mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)

14:24:32 [Zakim]

unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#

14:24:35 [Zakim]

is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present

14:24:37 [Zakim]

list conferences - reports the active conferences

14:24:38 [Zakim]

this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx

14:24:39 [Zakim]

excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel

14:24:41 [Zakim]

I last learned something new on $Date: 2006/01/31 19:07:09 $

14:26:00 [kendallclark]

Ok, someone's trying to find the person to fix this...

14:26:02 [kendallclark]

Sorry guys

14:26:20 [AndyS]

NP

14:27:37 [kendallclark]

is eric around?

14:28:14 [AndyS]

Just msg'ed him

14:28:21 [LeeF]

AndyS --

14:28:25 [LeeF]

after my reservations yesterday on IRC

14:28:35 [LeeF]

i thought more about the filter + optional problem

14:28:38 [LeeF]

and agree that it is a problem

14:28:42 [LeeF]

and i think that your approach to it

14:28:44 [AndyS]

Eric is on the case.

14:28:46 [LeeF]

while a bit mucky to formalize

14:28:56 [LeeF]

is the correct approach

14:29:20 [LeeF]

(i spent some time trying to come up with queries where you would *want* the strict-group-scope semantics, and convinced myself that such cases don't exist)

14:29:37 [AndyS]

LeeF: see this AM's formalization - explicit muckiness! - on comments. Whether it works or not remains to be seen but the idea might have some milage.

14:29:43 [LeeF]

yes, i saw it :-)

14:29:54 [LeeF]

it's along the lines of what we scribbled in IRC yesterday when SteveH was around

14:29:57 [AndyS]

Did you come with any examples?

14:30:16 [LeeF]

Examples? Bah humbug! I'm really a theory wanker at heart ;-p

14:30:20 [tlr]

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14:30:24 [tlr]

zakim, this will be team1

14:30:25 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; I see Team_(d)14:30Z scheduled to start now

14:30:28 [tlr]

zakim, code?

14:30:28 [Zakim]

the conference code is 83261 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), tlr

14:30:30 [tlr]

Here's your call

14:30:36 [LeeF]

thanks, tlr!

14:30:43 [tlr]

Note that it's a different code

14:31:10 [Zakim]

Team_(d)14:30Z has now started

14:31:13 [ericP]

before folks try this, let's see if ...

14:31:17 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

14:31:18 [LeeF]

oh whoops

14:31:18 [ericP]

rats, too late

14:31:21 [LeeF]

sorry :(

14:31:22 [ericP]

np

14:31:33 [ericP]

you can hang up with no consequence

14:31:40 [LeeF]

should I?

14:31:43 [ericP]

no, wait

14:31:45 [LeeF]

hehe

14:31:50 [ericP]

let's go with a known quantity

14:31:57 [Zakim]

+??P7

14:32:01 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P7 is me

14:32:01 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:32:02 [ericP]

folks can ask i irc for the code

14:32:09 [tlr]

zakim, code?

14:32:09 [Zakim]

the conference code is 83261 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), tlr

14:32:21 [tlr]

tlr has changed the topic to: code for today: 83261

14:32:58 [ericP]

could try this:

14:33:03 [ericP]

zakim, this is dawg

14:33:03 [Zakim]

ericP, I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be dawg".

14:33:13 [ericP]

zakim, this will be dawg

14:33:14 [Zakim]

ok, ericP; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 57 minutes

14:33:36 [kendallclark]

so are we using the new or the old code?

14:33:46 [tlr]

zakim, code?

14:33:46 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), tlr

14:33:47 [LeeF]

new code

14:33:47 [ericP]

no worky

14:33:55 [tlr]

old code no worky?

14:34:00 [ericP]

zakim, this is 83261

14:34:00 [Zakim]

ok, ericP; that matches Team_(d)14:30Z

14:34:00 [LeeF]

Andy and I are on ok

14:34:06 [LeeF]

with 83261

14:34:08 [tlr]

tlr has left #dawg

14:34:24 [ericP]

yeah, just trying to see if i could avoid a new code for people not on irc

14:34:36 [Zakim]

+Kendall_Clark

14:34:44 [AndyS]

Meeting: RDF Data Access Working group (31 Oct 2006)

14:34:52 [AndyS]

Chair: Kendall Clark

14:34:55 [Zakim]

+??P1

14:35:01 [ericP]

zakim, ??P1 is me

14:35:01 [Zakim]

+ericP; got it

14:35:01 [AndyS]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0118.html

14:35:10 [AndyS]

Scribe: Andy Seaborne

14:35:17 [AndyS]

ScribeNick: AndyS

14:35:24 [AndyS]

Regrets: Fred Zemke, Steve Harris

14:35:51 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ Convene, agenda comments, roll call, approve minutes, next meeting, recruit scribe

14:35:51 [Zakim]

agendum 1 added

14:36:36 [kendallclark]

tons of static when eric speaks

14:36:45 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ action items

14:36:45 [Zakim]

agendum 2 added

14:36:57 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ semantics of sparql

14:36:57 [Zakim]

agendum 3 added

14:37:15 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ filter scope & optionals

14:37:15 [Zakim]

agendum 4 added

14:37:35 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ sparql optional + union treatment of subgraph matching

14:37:35 [Zakim]

agendum 5 added

14:37:42 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ open world value tests

14:37:42 [Zakim]

agendum 6 added

14:37:47 [kendallclark]

zakim, who's on the phone?

14:37:47 [Zakim]

On the phone I see [IBMCambridge], AndyS, Kendall_Clark, ericP

14:41:02 [kendallclark]

speaking for UMD, I care vastly more about having the semantics look like they're starting to look *now* than I am about all the entailment stuff, which I still think we should just punt on.

14:43:14 [AndyS]

{ patterns, filters, patterns OPTIONAL { P } } =>{ { group(join patterns, filters) } OPTIONAL { P } }

14:43:33 [ericP]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/10/17-dawg-minutes minutes from 2 weeks ago

14:43:56 [LeeF]

{ P1 F1 OPTIONAL { P2 } P3 F2 }

14:44:07 [kendallclark]

I propose we approve those minutes.

14:44:09 [kendallclark]

Someone 2nd?

14:44:49 [kendallclark]

2nd'd, LeeF

14:45:01 [AndyS]

10 01{ ( ( join P1 where F1 ) LeftJoin/OPTIONAL { P2 } ) join P3 where F2 }

14:48:24 [AndyS]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:48:24 [Zakim]

On the phone I see [IBMCambridge], AndyS, Kendall_Clark, ericP

14:48:40 [kendallclark]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/att-0103/24-dawg-minutes.html

14:48:44 [LeeF]

zakim, ibmcambridge is me

14:48:44 [Zakim]

+LeeF; got it

14:49:14 [kendallclark]

APPROVED as true record of 17 Oct meeting

14:49:23 [AndyS]

ACTION: PatH to draft replacement vanilla entailment section for WG consideration

14:49:30 [AndyS]

CONTINUES

14:49:40 [AndyS]

ACTION: KendallC to close formsOfDistinct issue

14:49:42 [AndyS]

CONTINUES

14:49:51 [AndyS]

ACTION: PatH to review the proposed tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169 and say yay or nay

14:49:54 [AndyS]

CONTINUES

14:50:05 [AndyS]

ACTION: KendallC to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put to the question (re: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0099.html

14:50:07 [AndyS]

CONTINUES

14:50:13 [AndyS]

ACTION: LeeF to throw said 3 approved tests into the approved bucket

14:50:15 [AndyS]

DONE

14:50:50 [SteveH]

SteveH has joined #dawg

14:51:37 [AndyS]

Next time: regrets: AndyS (ISWC)

14:51:44 [ericP]

SteveH, we're using a different bridge, 83261

14:52:28 [AndyS]

14:30UTC

14:52:33 [RalphS]

RalphS has joined #dawg

14:52:50 [RalphS]

you guys want your regular telecon code back?

14:53:00 [kendallclark]

doesn't matter for th is week

14:53:05 [kendallclark]

but for next week, ykes, please

14:53:17 [kendallclark]

DST screwed us (me) up...

14:53:37 [RalphS]

DAWG is the only WG who doesn't shift their telecon time

14:53:57 [RalphS]

(but that's an old discussion we don't need to repeat her)

14:54:22 [RalphS]

we'll sort it out for next week

14:54:25 [RalphS]

RalphS has left #dawg

14:55:04 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to reply to Patrick Shironoshita's email re: OPTIONAL and UNION

14:55:23 [AndyS]

Also: there was a comments comment on test suite. I can reply to that if people are happy

14:56:58 [AndyS]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0068.html

14:58:31 [AndyS]

ACTION: AndyS Reply based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0068.html

15:01:19 [Zakim]

+(link)

15:01:46 [AndyS]

Domain is done naturally by the algebra ; as are dups and union (Chilean cardinality) modulo BGP and the blank node mapping function

15:02:06 [kendallclark]

thx

15:03:19 [ericP]

ack me

15:04:46 [kendallclark]

fwiw, +1 re: enough consensus

15:05:00 [LeeF]

+20 re: enough consensus

15:06:43 [LeeF]

kendallclark -- when you asked jeen last week if he wanted to keep on w/ test suite responsibilities, what did he answer?

15:06:52 [kendallclark]

"yes, but i don't have time"

15:06:56 [kendallclark]

the job is open IMO

15:07:05 [LeeF]

thanks

15:08:07 [SteveH]

I could probably re-assume test stuff, though my time is a bit patchy

15:08:20 [LeeF]

seconded!

15:08:22 [LeeF]

;-)

15:08:42 [kendallclark]

Yay!

15:08:47 [kendallclark]

we accept, Steve :)

15:09:02 [SteveH]

um, woo :-|

15:09:23 [SteveH]

regrets for next week BTW, ISWC

15:09:46 [AndyS]

Meeting next time at 14:30UTC on 7/Nov

15:09:56 [AndyS]

Scribe next time: LeeF

15:09:58 [kendallclark]

LeeF to scribe

15:10:04 [AndyS]

ADJOURNED

15:10:12 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

15:10:27 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

15:10:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-minutes.html AndyS

15:10:53 [ericP]

Zakim, please make record public

15:10:53 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'please make record public', ericP

15:11:15 [LeeF]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

15:11:23 [patH]

patH has joined #dawg

15:11:31 [patH]

Hi, sorry Im late.

15:11:45 [LeeF]

patH, we're done for today

15:11:46 [AndyS]

Pat - we had a mini-meeting

15:11:47 [LeeF]

a lite meeting

15:12:45 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please leave

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-actions.rdf :

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: PatH to draft replacement vanilla entailment section for WG consideration [1]

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-49-23

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to close formsOfDistinct issue [2]

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-49-40

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: PatH to review the proposed tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169 and say yay or nay [3]

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-49-51

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put to the question (re: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0099.html [4]

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-50-05

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to throw said 3 approved tests into the approved bucket [5]

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-50-13

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to reply to Patrick Shironoshita's email re: OPTIONAL and UNION [6]

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-55-04

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS Reply based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0068.html [7]

15:12:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-58-31