13:47:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18nits
13:47:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc
13:47:38 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS WG
13:47:40 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
13:47:43 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
13:47:47 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
13:48:07 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006OctDec/0011.html
13:48:14 <fsasaki> rrsagent, make log public
13:56:03 <fsasaki> last minutes are at http://www.w3.org/2006/10/04-i18nits-minutes.html
13:59:19 <YvesS> YvesS has joined #i18nits
14:00:30 <chriLi> chriLi has joined #i18nits
14:01:13 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started
14:01:14 <fsasaki> zakim, dial felix-home
14:01:14 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
14:01:20 <Zakim> +YvesS
14:01:45 <fsasaki> zakim, dial felix-home
14:01:45 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
14:01:47 <Zakim> +Felix
14:01:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:02:08 <Zakim> +Christian_Lieske
14:02:31 <AZ> AZ has joined #i18nits
14:02:41 <rahtz> rahtz has joined #i18nits
14:03:28 <YvesS> zakim, who is here?
14:03:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see YvesS, Andrzej, Felix, Christian_Lieske
14:03:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see rahtz, AZ, chriLi, YvesS, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki
14:04:29 <rahtz>  the phone won't let me in. anything odd today?
14:05:00 <Zakim> +Sebastian_Rahtz
14:05:12 <rahtz> ok now it lets me
14:05:22 <fsasaki> topic: action items
14:05:32 <fsasaki> action: felix to adopt change proposals from Yves for http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/lc-replies.html (DONE)
14:06:01 <fsasaki> Felix: if you have other ideas how to make this nicer, please tell me
14:06:11 <fsasaki> action: Felix to go back to Steven Pemperton with issue http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/lc-replies.html#issue-3331 (DONE)
14:07:56 <fsasaki> Felix explains http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006OctDec/0003.html , which resolves the issue
14:08:08 <fsasaki> action: Yves to add a bug for the removal of rbPointer (DONE)
14:08:20 <fsasaki> action: All to think about features at risk (ONGOING)
14:08:53 <fsasaki> last weeks view on features at risk: the "MUST" for langRule and the pointing mechanisms for ruby are features at risk
14:09:59 <fsasaki> action: Everybody to look at the draft, to see if it is ready for CR transition (ONGOING)
14:10:14 <fsasaki> Yves: last day for changes is October 22
14:10:38 <fsasaki> .. please give feedback
14:11:37 <fsasaki> action: Sebastian looking at the 'rbspanrbspan' problem (PENDING)
14:12:07 <fsasaki> see section http://www.w3.org/2006/10/its-draft/#ruby-implementation
14:13:16 <fsasaki> action: Yves to send mails for replies to comments (DONE)
14:13:33 <fsasaki> topic: 3466 issue
14:13:37 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466
14:13:43 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2006/10/10-i18ncore-minutes.html#item02
14:13:53 <fsasaki> (link above is discussion at i18n core call)
14:15:09 <fsasaki> Felix: one remaining change request: "RFC 3987" > "RFC 3987 or its successor"
14:15:41 <fsasaki> Yves: everybody on the call also fine with that change
14:16:00 <fsasaki> action: Yves to make the change log (DONE)
14:16:19 <fsasaki> Yves: one item I could not add, related to Sebastians fix for the list of attributes
14:16:28 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset.html#changelog-since-20060518
14:17:26 <fsasaki> missing change is In response to issue 3514 (Attributes missing?) NOT DONE YET!!!
14:17:48 <fsasaki> topic: CR preparation
14:18:03 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/ImpReport.html
14:18:15 <fsasaki> Felix: I started the implementation report
14:18:56 <fsasaki> "TODO: describe markup schemes in xml-i18n-bp document, say that they will be updated."
14:19:37 <fsasaki> Felix: fine with everybody to have this as the implementation of the markup conformance type?
14:23:04 <fsasaki> Christian: could we add a statement about that we need to fulfill the conformance requirements?
14:23:17 <fsasaki> Felix: this is not necessary, see http://www.w3.org/2005/07/pubrules?year=2006&uimode=filter&filter=Filter+pubrules&filterValues=form&docstatus=cr-tr&patpol=w3c&rectrack=yes&normative=yes&prevrec=none#docreqs
14:25:02 <fsasaki> Yves: everybody fine with this paragraph
14:25:30 <fsasaki> Next question: The ITS Working Group is aware of one commercial, and 3 open source mplementations 
14:26:33 <fsasaki> Andrzej: we support two categories
14:26:42 <fsasaki> .. translate and within text
14:26:58 <fsasaki> Yves: translate, within text, localization note, terminology
14:27:41 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2006/10/its-draft/#conformance-product-processing-expectations
14:27:46 <fsasaki> "2-2: If an application claims to process ITS markup for the global selection mechanism, it MUST process an XLink href attribute found on a rules  elements."
14:28:13 <fsasaki> Andrzej, Yves: already the case for our implementations
14:29:16 <Zakim> -Andrzej
14:29:17 <fsasaki> Sebastian: my implementation processing everything, i.e. each data category, just the result does not work properly yet
14:30:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:30:52 <fsasaki> ". The three commercial implementations are under active development,"
14:31:03 <fsasaki> Felix: this is rubish , I have to clear that up
14:32:10 <fsasaki> Andrzej: we support translate only globally
14:32:20 <fsasaki> Yves: we do both local and local selection
14:32:44 <fsasaki> Andrzej: we also process the default
14:33:10 <fsasaki> topic: Test Suite
14:34:12 <fsasaki> Felix: could we come up with a basic structure for the test suite?
14:34:16 <fsasaki> Yves: should be o.k.
14:35:20 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sebastian_Rahtz
14:35:37 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose YvesS
14:36:10 <fsasaki> Christian: we did some discussion already, right?
14:38:47 <fsasaki> Felix: Yves, we just need somebody to gather the mail threads
14:39:13 <fsasaki> Yves: I would update the test suite page after getting the threads
14:39:38 <fsasaki> action: Christian to gather mail threads related to test suite design, Yves to update the test suite page later
14:40:03 <fsasaki> "The Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Version 1.0 plans to conduct interoperability tests at its next face to face meeting. TODO?"
14:40:25 <fsasaki> Felix: should we have such a f2f?
14:40:35 <fsasaki> Yves: for testing, it is not necessary
14:42:05 <fsasaki> topic: when to reach PR phase planning
14:42:18 <fsasaki> "The Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Working Group, working closely with the developer community, expects to show these implementations by December 2007. This estimate is based on the Working Group's preliminary implementation reportTODO. The Working Group expects to revise this report over the course of the implementation period. The Working Group does not plan to request to advance to...
14:42:19 <fsasaki> ...Proposed Recommendation prior to 10 December 2006."
14:44:26 <fsasaki> Felix: sorry, this is meant to be December 2006 
14:45:16 <fsasaki> Yves: I should be fine with that, to produce output
14:45:27 <fsasaki> "The Working Group does not plan to request to advance to Proposed Recommendation prior to 10 December 2006."
14:46:36 <fsasaki> Christian: what does it mean to show the implementation?
14:47:16 <fsasaki> Felix: to run the implementation against the test suite, and to have the results available, e.g. a table describing all successful or not successful tests
14:47:56 <fsasaki> Sebastian: how to coordinate this? After self-validation?
14:48:20 <fsasaki> .. a f2f would be convinent to do this
14:50:20 <fsasaki> Felix: if you are not sure if you can provide the tests in time, please don't promise it now
14:50:45 <fsasaki> Sebastian: do we have to test mixing of data categories?
14:50:48 <fsasaki> Felix: I don't think so
14:51:42 <fsasaki> Sebastian: if we have separate test files, it is easier. If the tests are intermingled, it is difficult.
14:52:58 <fsasaki> .. we only compare the results of the output table, and see the differences
14:53:50 <fsasaki> Felix: we need to use the same input data for the table
14:54:20 <fsasaki> Sebastian: we first need the page which says "this is a right result, and this is wrong", e.g. to have a reporting format
14:54:47 <fsasaki> .. and the collection of files , if we agree what the files are, like the examples in the spec
14:57:07 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:58:00 <fsasaki> Yves: so we do what the planned ?
14:58:07 <fsasaki> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/results/Overview.html
14:59:59 <fsasaki> Felix: we need to have such an overview 
15:00:04 <fsasaki> Yves: we have that already
15:00:14 <fsasaki> Felix: maybe I was just too concerned
15:00:36 <fsasaki> Sebastian: the time scale would be six weeks for now?
15:00:45 <fsasaki> Yves: yes, 10 of December
15:01:13 <fsasaki> Sebastian: so the end of December is fine to leave PR
15:02:14 <fsasaki> topic: other business
15:02:54 <fsasaki> Felix: regrets for next week, traveling
15:03:41 <fsasaki> topic: participation in the group
15:04:04 <fsasaki> Christian: some people have not participated for some time
15:05:49 <fsasaki> Felix: might become an issue for the next charter, if the companies don't support the new charter
15:06:13 <Zakim> -Sebastian_Rahtz
15:06:15 <Zakim> -YvesS
15:14:39 <Zakim> -Christian_Lieske
15:14:40 <Zakim> -Felix
15:14:41 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended
15:14:43 <Zakim> Attendees were YvesS, Felix, [IPcaller], Christian_Lieske, Andrzej, Sebastian_Rahtz
15:17:11 <fsasaki> present: Andrzej, Christian, Felix, Sebastian, Yves
15:17:17 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:17:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:23:05 <fsasaki> zakim, bye
15:23:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18nits
15:23:11 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-actions.rdf :
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: felix to adopt change proposals from Yves for http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/lc-replies.html (DONE) [1]
15:23:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-05-32
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to go back to Steven Pemperton with issue http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/lc-replies.html#issue-3331 (DONE) [2]
15:23:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-06-11
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to add a bug for the removal of rbPointer (DONE) [3]
15:23:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-08-08
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: All to think about features at risk (ONGOING) [4]
15:23:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-08-20
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Everybody to look at the draft, to see if it is ready for CR transition (ONGOING) [5]
15:23:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-09-59
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Sebastian looking at the 'rbspanrbspan' problem (PENDING) [6]
15:23:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-11-37
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to send mails for replies to comments (DONE) [7]
15:23:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-13-16
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to make the change log (DONE) [8]
15:23:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-16-00
15:23:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Christian to gather mail threads related to test suite design, Yves to update the test suite page later [9]
15:23:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-39-38