IRC log of i18nits on 2006-10-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:47:32 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #i18nits

13:47:32 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc

13:47:38 [fsasaki]

meeting: i18n ITS WG

13:47:40 [fsasaki]

chair: Yves

13:47:43 [fsasaki]

scribe: Felix

13:47:47 [fsasaki]

scribeNick: fsasaki

13:48:07 [fsasaki]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006OctDec/0011.html

13:48:14 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, make log public

13:56:03 [fsasaki]

last minutes are at http://www.w3.org/2006/10/04-i18nits-minutes.html

13:59:19 [YvesS]

YvesS has joined #i18nits

14:00:30 [chriLi]

chriLi has joined #i18nits

14:01:13 [Zakim]

I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started

14:01:14 [fsasaki]

zakim, dial felix-home

14:01:14 [Zakim]

ok, fsasaki; the call is being made

14:01:20 [Zakim]

+YvesS

14:01:45 [fsasaki]

zakim, dial felix-home

14:01:45 [Zakim]

ok, fsasaki; the call is being made

14:01:47 [Zakim]

+Felix

14:01:48 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:02:08 [Zakim]

+Christian_Lieske

14:02:31 [AZ]

AZ has joined #i18nits

14:02:41 [rahtz]

rahtz has joined #i18nits

14:03:28 [YvesS]

zakim, who is here?

14:03:28 [Zakim]

On the phone I see YvesS, Andrzej, Felix, Christian_Lieske

14:03:29 [Zakim]

On IRC I see rahtz, AZ, chriLi, YvesS, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki

14:04:29 [rahtz]

the phone won't let me in. anything odd today?

14:05:00 [Zakim]

+Sebastian_Rahtz

14:05:12 [rahtz]

ok now it lets me

14:05:22 [fsasaki]

topic: action items

14:05:32 [fsasaki]

action: felix to adopt change proposals from Yves for http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/lc-replies.html (DONE)

14:06:01 [fsasaki]

Felix: if you have other ideas how to make this nicer, please tell me

14:06:11 [fsasaki]

action: Felix to go back to Steven Pemperton with issue http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/lc-replies.html#issue-3331 (DONE)

14:07:56 [fsasaki]

Felix explains http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006OctDec/0003.html , which resolves the issue

14:08:08 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to add a bug for the removal of rbPointer (DONE)

14:08:20 [fsasaki]

action: All to think about features at risk (ONGOING)

14:08:53 [fsasaki]

last weeks view on features at risk: the "MUST" for langRule and the pointing mechanisms for ruby are features at risk

14:09:59 [fsasaki]

action: Everybody to look at the draft, to see if it is ready for CR transition (ONGOING)

14:10:14 [fsasaki]

Yves: last day for changes is October 22

14:10:38 [fsasaki]

.. please give feedback

14:11:37 [fsasaki]

action: Sebastian looking at the 'rbspanrbspan' problem (PENDING)

14:12:07 [fsasaki]

see section http://www.w3.org/2006/10/its-draft/#ruby-implementation

14:13:16 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to send mails for replies to comments (DONE)

14:13:33 [fsasaki]

topic: 3466 issue

14:13:37 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466

14:13:43 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2006/10/10-i18ncore-minutes.html#item02

14:13:53 [fsasaki]

(link above is discussion at i18n core call)

14:15:09 [fsasaki]

Felix: one remaining change request: "RFC 3987" > "RFC 3987 or its successor"

14:15:41 [fsasaki]

Yves: everybody on the call also fine with that change

14:16:00 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to make the change log (DONE)

14:16:19 [fsasaki]

Yves: one item I could not add, related to Sebastians fix for the list of attributes

14:16:28 [YvesS]

http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset.html#changelog-since-20060518

14:17:26 [fsasaki]

missing change is In response to issue 3514 (Attributes missing?) NOT DONE YET!!!

14:17:48 [fsasaki]

topic: CR preparation

14:18:03 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/ImpReport.html

14:18:15 [fsasaki]

Felix: I started the implementation report

14:18:56 [fsasaki]

"TODO: describe markup schemes in xml-i18n-bp document, say that they will be updated."

14:19:37 [fsasaki]

Felix: fine with everybody to have this as the implementation of the markup conformance type?

14:23:04 [fsasaki]

Christian: could we add a statement about that we need to fulfill the conformance requirements?

14:23:17 [fsasaki]

Felix: this is not necessary, see http://www.w3.org/2005/07/pubrules?year=2006&uimode=filter&filter=Filter+pubrules&filterValues=form&docstatus=cr-tr&patpol=w3c&rectrack=yes&normative=yes&prevrec=none#docreqs

14:25:02 [fsasaki]

Yves: everybody fine with this paragraph

14:25:30 [fsasaki]

Next question: The ITS Working Group is aware of one commercial, and 3 open source mplementations

14:26:33 [fsasaki]

Andrzej: we support two categories

14:26:42 [fsasaki]

.. translate and within text

14:26:58 [fsasaki]

Yves: translate, within text, localization note, terminology

14:27:41 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/2006/10/its-draft/#conformance-product-processing-expectations

14:27:46 [fsasaki]

"2-2: If an application claims to process ITS markup for the global selection mechanism, it MUST process an XLink href attribute found on a rules elements."

14:28:13 [fsasaki]

Andrzej, Yves: already the case for our implementations

14:29:16 [Zakim]

-Andrzej

14:29:17 [fsasaki]

Sebastian: my implementation processing everything, i.e. each data category, just the result does not work properly yet

14:30:01 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:30:52 [fsasaki]

". The three commercial implementations are under active development,"

14:31:03 [fsasaki]

Felix: this is rubish , I have to clear that up

14:32:10 [fsasaki]

Andrzej: we support translate only globally

14:32:20 [fsasaki]

Yves: we do both local and local selection

14:32:44 [fsasaki]

Andrzej: we also process the default

14:33:10 [fsasaki]

topic: Test Suite

14:34:12 [fsasaki]

Felix: could we come up with a basic structure for the test suite?

14:34:16 [fsasaki]

Yves: should be o.k.

14:35:20 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sebastian_Rahtz

14:35:37 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose YvesS

14:36:10 [fsasaki]

Christian: we did some discussion already, right?

14:38:47 [fsasaki]

Felix: Yves, we just need somebody to gather the mail threads

14:39:13 [fsasaki]

Yves: I would update the test suite page after getting the threads

14:39:38 [fsasaki]

action: Christian to gather mail threads related to test suite design, Yves to update the test suite page later

14:40:03 [fsasaki]

"The Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Version 1.0 plans to conduct interoperability tests at its next face to face meeting. TODO?"

14:40:25 [fsasaki]

Felix: should we have such a f2f?

14:40:35 [fsasaki]

Yves: for testing, it is not necessary

14:42:05 [fsasaki]

topic: when to reach PR phase planning

14:42:18 [fsasaki]

"The Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Working Group, working closely with the developer community, expects to show these implementations by December 2007. This estimate is based on the Working Group's preliminary implementation reportTODO. The Working Group expects to revise this report over the course of the implementation period. The Working Group does not plan to request to advance to...

14:42:19 [fsasaki]

...Proposed Recommendation prior to 10 December 2006."

14:44:26 [fsasaki]

Felix: sorry, this is meant to be December 2006

14:45:16 [fsasaki]

Yves: I should be fine with that, to produce output

14:45:27 [fsasaki]

"The Working Group does not plan to request to advance to Proposed Recommendation prior to 10 December 2006."

14:46:36 [fsasaki]

Christian: what does it mean to show the implementation?

14:47:16 [fsasaki]

Felix: to run the implementation against the test suite, and to have the results available, e.g. a table describing all successful or not successful tests

14:47:56 [fsasaki]

Sebastian: how to coordinate this? After self-validation?

14:48:20 [fsasaki]

.. a f2f would be convinent to do this

14:50:20 [fsasaki]

Felix: if you are not sure if you can provide the tests in time, please don't promise it now

14:50:45 [fsasaki]

Sebastian: do we have to test mixing of data categories?

14:50:48 [fsasaki]

Felix: I don't think so

14:51:42 [fsasaki]

Sebastian: if we have separate test files, it is easier. If the tests are intermingled, it is difficult.

14:52:58 [fsasaki]

.. we only compare the results of the output table, and see the differences

14:53:50 [fsasaki]

Felix: we need to use the same input data for the table

14:54:20 [fsasaki]

Sebastian: we first need the page which says "this is a right result, and this is wrong", e.g. to have a reporting format

14:54:47 [fsasaki]

.. and the collection of files , if we agree what the files are, like the examples in the spec

14:57:07 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller]

14:58:00 [fsasaki]

Yves: so we do what the planned ?

14:58:07 [fsasaki]

http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/results/Overview.html

14:59:59 [fsasaki]

Felix: we need to have such an overview

15:00:04 [fsasaki]

Yves: we have that already

15:00:14 [fsasaki]

Felix: maybe I was just too concerned

15:00:36 [fsasaki]

Sebastian: the time scale would be six weeks for now?

15:00:45 [fsasaki]

Yves: yes, 10 of December

15:01:13 [fsasaki]

Sebastian: so the end of December is fine to leave PR

15:02:14 [fsasaki]

topic: other business

15:02:54 [fsasaki]

Felix: regrets for next week, traveling

15:03:41 [fsasaki]

topic: participation in the group

15:04:04 [fsasaki]

Christian: some people have not participated for some time

15:05:49 [fsasaki]

Felix: might become an issue for the next charter, if the companies don't support the new charter

15:06:13 [Zakim]

-Sebastian_Rahtz

15:06:15 [Zakim]

-YvesS

15:14:39 [Zakim]

-Christian_Lieske

15:14:40 [Zakim]

-Felix

15:14:41 [Zakim]

I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended

15:14:43 [Zakim]

Attendees were YvesS, Felix, [IPcaller], Christian_Lieske, Andrzej, Sebastian_Rahtz

15:17:11 [fsasaki]

present: Andrzej, Christian, Felix, Sebastian, Yves

15:17:17 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:17:17 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki

15:23:05 [fsasaki]

zakim, bye

15:23:05 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #i18nits

15:23:11 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, bye

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-actions.rdf :

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: felix to adopt change proposals from Yves for http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/lc-replies.html (DONE) [1]

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-05-32

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix to go back to Steven Pemperton with issue http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/lc-replies.html#issue-3331 (DONE) [2]

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-06-11

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to add a bug for the removal of rbPointer (DONE) [3]

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-08-08

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: All to think about features at risk (ONGOING) [4]

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-08-20

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Everybody to look at the draft, to see if it is ready for CR transition (ONGOING) [5]

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-09-59

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Sebastian looking at the 'rbspanrbspan' problem (PENDING) [6]

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-11-37

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to send mails for replies to comments (DONE) [7]

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-13-16

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to make the change log (DONE) [8]

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-16-00

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Christian to gather mail threads related to test suite design, Yves to update the test suite page later [9]

15:23:11 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/11-i18nits-irc#T14-39-38