IRC log of rif on 2006-08-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:13 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:59:13 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/08/29-rif-irc
14:59:19 [Zakim]: +Sandro
14:59:30 [Zakim]: +PaulaP
14:59:37 [ChrisW]: ChrisW has changed the topic to: RIF Agenda 29 Aug: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0028.html
14:59:41 [Zakim]: +Deborah_Nichols
14:59:44 [csma]: zakim, ??P18 is me
14:59:44 [Zakim]: +csma; got it
15:00:05 [Zakim]: +??P26
15:00:10 [AlexKozlenkov]: zakim, ??P26 is me
15:00:10 [Zakim]: +AlexKozlenkov; got it
15:00:19 [AlexKozlenkov]: zakim, mute me
15:00:19 [Zakim]: AlexKozlenkov should now be muted
15:00:34 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:00:39 [Zakim]: +Donald_Chapin (was [IPcaller])
15:00:45 [Zakim]: +[IBM]
15:00:52 [Donald_Chapin]: zakim, mute me
15:00:52 [Zakim]: Donald_Chapin should now be muted
15:00:57 [csma]: hello
15:01:00 [AlexKozlenkov]: zakim, unmute me
15:01:00 [Zakim]: AlexKozlenkov should no longer be muted
15:01:18 [AxelPolleres]: AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:01:21 [Zakim]: +??P29
15:01:28 [Zakim]: +??P31
15:01:40 [Zakim]: -??P31
15:01:55 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is talking?
15:02:01 [Zakim]: +??P32
15:02:05 [Zakim]: +Axel_Polleres
15:02:07 [pfps]: zakim, ??P32 is me
15:02:07 [Zakim]: +pfps; got it
15:02:07 [Harold]: zakim ??P29 is me
15:02:12 [ChrisW]: zakim, mute 10
15:02:12 [Zakim]: sorry, ChrisW, I do not see a party named '10'
15:02:13 [Zakim]: ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Hassan_Ait-Kaci (14%), AlexKozlenkov (46%), [IBM] (18%), ??P29 (42%), ??P32 (2%)
15:02:27 [johnhall]: johnhall has joined #rif
15:02:31 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone
15:02:31 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who is on the phone', ChrisW
15:02:33 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:33 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci, csma (muted), FrankMcCabe, Sandro (muted), PaulaP (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), AlexKozlenkov, Donald_Chapin (muted), [IBM], ??P29, pfps,
15:02:34 [DaveReynolds]: DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:02:36 [Zakim]: ... Axel_Polleres (muted)
15:02:37 [Allen]: Allen has joined #rif
15:02:41 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is talking?
15:02:46 [Zakim]: +??P33
15:02:47 [Zakim]: +Dave_Reynolds (was ??P33)
15:02:50 [csma]: zakim, mute ??P29
15:02:50 [Zakim]: ??P29 should now be muted
15:02:53 [Zakim]: ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Hassan_Ait-Kaci (9%)
15:03:05 [Harold]: zakim P29 is me
15:03:12 [ChrisW]: chris: tells alex how to scribe
15:03:23 [csma]: zakim, ??P29 is Harold
15:03:23 [Zakim]: +Harold; got it
15:03:30 [Zakim]: +Allen_Ginsberg
15:03:40 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:03:47 [Allen]: zakim, mute me
15:03:47 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
15:03:50 [johnhall]: zakim, ipcaller is me
15:03:50 [Zakim]: +johnhall; got it
15:03:59 [johnhall]: zakim, mute me
15:03:59 [Zakim]: johnhall should now be muted
15:04:08 [csma]: scribenick: AlexKozlenkov
15:05:25 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: next meeting next Tuesday
15:05:28 [ChrisW]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0021.html
15:05:48 [Harold]: zakim, mute me
15:05:48 [Zakim]: Harold was already muted, Harold
15:05:57 [JeffP]: JeffP has joined #rif
15:06:02 [ChrisW]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0021.html
15:06:05 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: the 8/8 meeting posted after SAid's amendments
15:06:36 [ChrisW]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0025.html
15:06:38 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: no objections to accept 8/8
15:07:30 [AlexKozlenkov]: axel: Wiki page for clarifying negation
15:07:55 [csma]: ok, I do it
15:07:56 [Zakim]: +??P1
15:08:13 [Zakim]: +??P3
15:08:16 [ChrisW]: action: axel to make a wiki page for negation
15:08:29 [MoZ]: Zakim, ? is mz
15:08:29 [Zakim]: sorry, MoZ, I do not recognize a party named '?'
15:08:31 [AxelPolleres]: it was entered without colon, thus not recognized.
15:08:33 [MoZ]: Zakim, ? is me
15:08:34 [Zakim]: sorry, MoZ, I do not recognize a party named '?'
15:08:37 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: last week serious IRC problems
15:08:40 [JeffP]: zakim, ??P1 is me
15:08:40 [Zakim]: +JeffP; got it
15:08:44 [csma]: zakim, unmute me
15:08:44 [Zakim]: csma should no longer be muted
15:08:46 [MoZ]: Zakim, ??P3 is me
15:08:48 [Zakim]: +MoZ; got it
15:08:53 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: accepted August 22 minutes
15:09:04 [GaryHallmark]: GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:09:22 [Zakim]: -Sandro
15:10:00 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: liason activities--no outstanding actions
15:10:25 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: PRR to be discussed this week?
15:10:47 [AlexKozlenkov]: Christian: Fair Isaac have nominated somebody to represent here
15:11:10 [AlexKozlenkov]: Christian: should be registered but I cannot see him
15:11:21 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: still need a PRR liason
15:11:23 [Zakim]: + +1.503.317.aaaa
15:11:37 [GaryHallmark]: zakim, aaaa is me
15:11:37 [Zakim]: +GaryHallmark; got it
15:11:55 [Donald_Chapin]: Zakim, unmute me
15:11:55 [Zakim]: Donald_Chapin should no longer be muted
15:12:02 [Donald_Chapin]: q+
15:12:09 [AlexKozlenkov]: Alex: JBoss guys to join RIF, possible liason for PRR
15:12:14 [ChrisW]: q-
15:12:20 [ChrisW]: ack donald
15:12:40 [AlexKozlenkov]: Donald: successful Beijing meeting on PRR
15:12:51 [csma]: s/PRR/SBVR/
15:13:14 [AlexKozlenkov]: donald: ISO SBVR process successfully continued
15:13:15 [Donald_Chapin]: zakim, unmute me
15:13:15 [Zakim]: Donald_Chapin was not muted, Donald_Chapin
15:13:26 [Allen]: zakim, unmute me
15:13:26 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
15:13:32 [Donald_Chapin]: zakim, mute me
15:13:32 [Zakim]: Donald_Chapin should now be muted
15:13:33 [ChrisW]: zakim, mute donald
15:13:33 [Zakim]: Donald_Chapin was already muted, ChrisW
15:13:39 [AlexKozlenkov]: chros: to discuss use cases now
15:13:48 [Zakim]: +Mala_Mehrotra
15:13:48 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/chros/chris
15:14:34 [AlexKozlenkov]: alan: improve consistency
15:14:44 [Zakim]: +Sandro
15:14:52 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: issues 9 and 10 addressed
15:14:59 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/alan/allen
15:15:18 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: could be changed back easily
15:15:34 [MalaMehrotra]: MalaMehrotra has joined #rif
15:15:42 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: the look of the boxes not really a problem, not able to duplicate issue 11
15:16:07 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: could not see display problems
15:16:21 [Zakim]: -Dave_Reynolds
15:16:23 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: working draft is OK in any browsers
15:16:53 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: the official one is fixed
15:17:04 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: item 7 a more substantial one
15:17:21 [Zakim]: +??P9
15:17:26 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: do this as a group, a separate teleconference perhaps
15:17:48 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: we need to discuss issue 7
15:18:06 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: issue 9 and 10 are done
15:18:24 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: issue 11, we must keep track
15:18:33 [csma]: zakim, unmute me
15:18:33 [Zakim]: csma should no longer be muted
15:18:40 [csma]: q+
15:18:48 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: if nobody objects, the issue will be closed
15:19:11 [csma]: q-
15:19:26 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: editing and formatting 9 and 10, next week will be closed after people have a chance to comment
15:19:31 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: issue 11
15:19:46 [GaryHallmark]: GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:19:51 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: sandro, leave as an open issue
15:19:55 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: sure
15:20:18 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: move it to a persistent action?
15:20:24 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: not sure
15:20:35 [AlexKozlenkov]: debra: agree with that
15:21:12 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: editors are working on the wikipage and the process is painful for generating a working draft
15:21:45 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: we should remeber as a group that a new draft is generated
15:22:34 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: everybody looks at the draft before it is published
15:22:46 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: small changes can be made directly
15:22:57 [csma]: Sandro has already an action on that (action ID 58)
15:23:23 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: close issue 11
15:23:41 [AlexKozlenkov]: action: deboragh close issue 11
15:23:42 [csma]: ACTION: Deborah to close action item 11 (to be moved to action 58)
15:23:55 [AlexKozlenkov]: can we remove that?
15:23:56 [csma]: zakim, unmute me
15:23:56 [Zakim]: csma was not muted, csma
15:24:54 [ChrisW]: issue 7 is a review by Sven Groppe
15:24:54 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: issue 7
15:25:05 [ChrisW]: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/7
15:25:09 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: summarizing his views
15:25:26 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: stylistic changes that I do not agree with
15:25:57 [AlexKozlenkov]: uggestion 1: start with the discussion of RIF and enumerate requiremens rather than UC
15:26:08 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: anyone agrees with this?
15:26:19 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: I'd rather keep the docuemnt as is
15:26:36 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/docuemnt/document
15:26:55 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: let him have a look at the last draft
15:27:15 [AlexKozlenkov]: christian: he prefers to have UC linked to Requirements
15:27:37 [Hassan]: q+
15:27:49 [MichaelKifer]: MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:27:50 [ChrisW]: q?
15:27:55 [ChrisW]: ack hassan
15:28:14 [AlexKozlenkov]: Hassan: it would not hurt to have a summary before each UC
15:28:27 [AlexKozlenkov]: Hassan: requirements are now present
15:28:50 [AlexKozlenkov]: Hassan: if we addd links to requirements from UC, this would answer Sven's concerns
15:29:00 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris, eventually, we will have these links
15:29:04 [Hassan]: q-
15:29:31 [csma]: q+
15:29:38 [Hassan]: +1
15:29:49 [AxelPolleres]: q+
15:29:54 [AlexKozlenkov]: christian: do not need to have examples of translation
15:30:08 [Hassan]: q+
15:30:09 [AlexKozlenkov]: christian: UC should make it clear that a translation is needed
15:30:27 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: current UC's do that?
15:30:32 [AlexKozlenkov]: christian: not all
15:31:46 [AlexKozlenkov]: christian: use cases should not be about only about the use of rules but more focused on interchange
15:31:58 [ChrisW]: q?
15:32:07 [ChrisW]: ack csma
15:32:13 [ChrisW]: ack axel
15:32:37 [AlexKozlenkov]: axel: we could go back to UC's and add concrete languages?
15:32:56 [AlexKozlenkov]: axel: it could be solved in this way
15:33:04 [Allen]: q+
15:33:13 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: 1st f2f decided that specific languages will not be mentioned
15:34:17 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: debated before, agree that the languages not required
15:34:22 [csma]: +1 to Hassan not to have concrete language
15:34:37 [AlexKozlenkov]: axel: mention an example?
15:34:46 [csma]: q+
15:34:55 [AlexKozlenkov]: axel: if we do not want this, so be it
15:35:18 [AlexKozlenkov]: axel: finally, it would be nice to have UC and requirements to be connected
15:35:25 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: this is the work to be done
15:35:41 [AlexKozlenkov]: axel: still give an example of languages
15:35:41 [ChrisW]: ack hassan
15:35:49 [ChrisW]: ack allen
15:36:14 [csma]: Is that clear that RIF is itself a rule language?
15:36:35 [Hassan]: Good question, Chris!
15:36:43 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: on interchange, interchange between RIF and language is also an interchange
15:36:43 [AxelPolleres]: s/an example/example languages where this use case can apply concretly (without referring to the concrete syntax)
15:37:38 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: RIF<->language is also an interchange
15:38:30 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: the interchange should be specific, the wholistic view is not enough
15:38:37 [ChrisW]: q?
15:38:42 [ChrisW]: ack csma
15:38:48 [AxelPolleres]: actually, the original use caes were a lot more specific, we abstracted them on purpose.
15:39:07 [AlexKozlenkov]: christian: to be more specific, I tried to extract the processing from UC and failed
15:39:50 [AlexKozlenkov]: christian: that is a problem with UC non-specificity
15:39:58 [AxelPolleres]: so, I suggest let's stick with it. However, it is true that we need more concrete examples later on (when it comes to implementations, etc.)
15:40:00 [Harold]: Allen, you perhaps meant the term 'interchange' might already be used for one-way translation from some existing language (eg. Prolog) into the RIF (without translation out, maybe running it in RIF instead)?
15:40:12 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: can christian make a more concrete statement about particular UC's
15:40:29 [AlexKozlenkov]: christian: it looks that the processing model is missing
15:40:45 [Allen]: Harold, I meant that the term could be used to cover that case too
15:40:53 [ChrisW]: action: csma to post an example of processing model in use cases
15:40:57 [csma]: ACTION: csma to post an example of an UC not being clear enough about the processing model
15:41:05 [ChrisW]: q?
15:41:53 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: another item from Sven's review: annotation of UC's to phase 1 or 2
15:42:04 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: any comments on that?
15:42:35 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: point 6 of review is now clear
15:42:38 [Zakim]: -MoZ
15:42:56 [csma]: s/csma/Chris/
15:43:20 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: point 7: only exchange of the facts or rules for UC 1.1
15:43:26 [csma]: q+ about which way point 6 was clarified
15:43:44 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: negotiating cross-rule contracts across platforms
15:43:58 [csma]: q+ to ask which way point 6 was clarified
15:44:00 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: is it clear in the UC whether the rules or facts are interchanged
15:44:07 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: seems reasonable
15:44:13 [ChrisW]: q?
15:44:40 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: it needs to be answered
15:44:56 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: allen will have a look
15:45:16 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: about point 6, which way it has been clarified?
15:45:45 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: RIF is about interchange
15:46:04 [Hassan]: q+
15:46:16 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: the UCR document is now better, so it has been clarified in the abstract of the 2nd WD
15:46:16 [csma]: ack csma
15:46:16 [Zakim]: csma, you wanted to ask which way point 6 was clarified
15:46:17 [ChrisW]: ack csma
15:46:20 [Harold]: Do we regard facts as special rules (having 'empty-conjunction' = 'true' bodies)? Or, do we treat (ground) facts specially (eg. to access databases)?
15:46:20 [ChrisW]: ack hassan
15:46:58 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: point 8: reorganize the document for separating UC and requirements, it will become clearer
15:47:22 [AlexKozlenkov]: deborah: add that tp the issue description
15:47:27 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/tp/to
15:47:48 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: there will overlap between UC and requirements but the separation will be more clear
15:47:53 [csma]: ACTION: Deborah to summarise the discussion to issue 7 description
15:48:20 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: rule extensions to OWL, will be done when requirements are linked
15:48:27 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: add conclusions
15:48:44 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: references to resources for real-worlkd examples
15:48:53 [AlexKozlenkov]: c/worldk/world
15:49:02 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/worldk/world
15:49:25 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: concrete languages or test cases
15:49:37 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: test cases, we will have that, rule systems, no
15:49:46 [ChrisW]: q?
15:50:09 [AxelPolleres]: +1 to express as response the intention to add concrete testcases to each use case later on.
15:50:16 [Zakim]: -Harold
15:50:24 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: eventually, we are converging to the XML dialect that will be an intersection of a few languages
15:50:47 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: it is needed but not in the UC
15:52:05 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: the test cases is a separate document
15:52:44 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: we start off with UC and requirements and that is how RIF is progressing
15:52:44 [ChrisW]: q?
15:52:54 [AxelPolleres]: well, we should of course back-check whether the testcases cover the use cases and vice-versa, right?
15:53:28 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: should we leave one week for the group to consider an issue?
15:53:48 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: some issues could be shorter or longer
15:53:55 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: OK
15:54:21 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: that finishes Allen's issues
15:54:37 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: heartbeat requirements fot the next WD
15:54:49 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: October 10, the next WD
15:55:24 [Hassan]: +1 with csma
15:55:54 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: a new draft of UCR not a problem?
15:56:02 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: does not seem as big job
15:56:13 [sandro]: q?
15:56:17 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: the major part is associating UC and requirements
15:56:44 [sandro]: q+ to muse about adding results of RIFRAF survey
15:56:47 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: is the link supposed to be complete?
15:57:16 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: every UC should motivate a requirement
15:57:24 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: is the opposite true?
15:57:31 [csma]: For the record, what I said that Hassan supported is that we should have the 1st WD of the tech spec as our objective for the next heartbeat
15:57:34 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: it would be good
15:57:39 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:57:44 [sandro]: ack sandro
15:57:44 [Zakim]: sandro, you wanted to muse about adding results of RIFRAF survey
15:57:50 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, IPcaller is me
15:57:50 [Zakim]: +MichaelKifer; got it
15:57:51 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: use of XML, one example
15:57:59 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
15:57:59 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:58:04 [ChrisW]: q?
15:58:17 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: add results of RIFRAF questionnaire to the next UCR document
15:58:32 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: just a suggestion
15:58:37 [Hassan]: q+
15:59:24 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: the feedback will be useful but in UCR?
15:59:37 [ChrisW]: ack hassan
15:59:45 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: UCR is separate
16:00:26 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: the classification work and technical design will use these results
16:01:02 [Harold]: Sandro, I was disconnected from my Skype access to the W3C bridge, and the conference code seems no longer to be valid.
16:01:26 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: answers should not be in the UCR document
16:01:27 [sandro]: That's odd, Harold. Can you do the Admin Assistance code?
16:01:28 [Harold]: Also *0 did not get me someone.
16:01:29 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: agree
16:01:33 [sandro]: Ah.
16:01:53 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: the feedback will be useful, however, so it will be useful to publish that separately
16:01:57 [sandro]: Zakim, what conference is this?
16:01:57 [Zakim]: this is SW_RIF()11:00AM conference code 74394
16:02:00 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: where?
16:02:20 [Harold]: I used this.
16:02:26 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: RIFRAF will be separate
16:02:33 [Zakim]: +Sandro.a
16:02:37 [Zakim]: -Sandro.a
16:02:50 [sandro]: Very odd, Harold -- it just worked for me on a second line.
16:03:02 [Harold]: OK, I'll try again.
16:03:21 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: produce an ontology of the RIFRAF
16:03:41 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: a non-normative result, not part of the standard
16:03:46 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:04:05 [Harold]: Sandr, it works again, thanks!
16:04:12 [ChrisW]: q?
16:04:20 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: the answers should not be normative, not event a result
16:04:28 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/event/even
16:04:47 [Harold]: zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:04:47 [Zakim]: +Harold; got it
16:04:49 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: requirements is the main thing
16:05:21 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: the extensibility mechanism will be linked to that classification
16:05:26 [Harold]: zakim, mute me
16:05:26 [Zakim]: Harold should now be muted
16:05:36 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: got your point
16:05:38 [ChrisW]: q?
16:07:11 [AlexKozlenkov]: sandro: the results of the classification may be part of the rectrack, it is easier to remove than add
16:07:54 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: certainly if we are publishing, we need editirs for RIFRAF
16:08:03 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/editirs/editors
16:08:04 [ChrisW]: action: on chairs to think aboutr RIFRAF editor
16:08:49 [AxelPolleres]: Depending that you concretize the role of the RIFRAF ocument more... I could be a volunteer.
16:09:06 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: sandro agree that a separate RIFRAF doc is required
16:09:08 [AxelPolleres]: s/ocument/document
16:10:06 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: linking UC with requirements shoudl be an issue
16:10:23 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/shoudl/should
16:10:39 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: what happend
16:10:39 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: what happend
16:10:50 [AlexKozlenkov]: oops
16:11:01 [csma]: q+ to propose a path to UCR WD3
16:11:24 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen: no consistency across UC's
16:11:51 [csma]: action: allen to post the previous work on links between reqs and UC
16:12:24 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: allen any other issues in UCR?
16:12:25 [ChrisW]: q?
16:12:27 [AlexKozlenkov]: allen, no
16:12:27 [ChrisW]: ack csma
16:12:27 [Zakim]: csma, you wanted to propose a path to UCR WD3
16:12:54 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: we should first agree on all short term issues
16:13:11 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: for draft 3, we need to assign priorities
16:13:47 [AlexKozlenkov]: csma: for example, one week to submit the issues in the current WD
16:13:52 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/csma/chris
16:14:27 [csma]: action: chrsi to send email to inform everybody of process toward UCR WD3
16:14:32 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: within two weeks, the group agrees which issues will be addressed min the WD3
16:14:38 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/min/with
16:15:19 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: outstanding items
16:15:33 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: for RIFRAF, outstanding actions
16:17:29 [AlexKozlenkov]: frank: simplify the questionnaire
16:18:16 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: the idea is to use a tree to open a branch
16:18:43 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: in this case, one does not answer the lowerl level questions
16:18:54 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/lowerl/lower
16:19:16 [AlexKozlenkov]: frank: does the W3C questionnaire technology allow this
16:19:26 [AlexKozlenkov]: axel: no it is not possible
16:20:00 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: the logical form could be followed so that semantic distance could be computed
16:20:00 [Harold]: Frank and Hassan, could we have cross-references between RDF(S) and OWL compatibility on one hand and certain kinds of (order-sorted) type systems on the other hand?
16:20:26 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: coould post the way it could be organized
16:21:00 [csma]: ACTION: work with Frank to augment type discriminators proposal (ID 88) [DONE]
16:22:28 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: we will talk about it next week
16:22:39 [AlexKozlenkov]: frank: the questionnaire needs more stru
16:22:41 [AlexKozlenkov]: ture
16:22:51 [AlexKozlenkov]: s/stru/structure
16:23:02 [sandro]: q?
16:23:58 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: Frank and Hassan could work on types, to make it more hierarchical
16:24:31 [csma]: action: franck and hassan to work on a hierarchy of type-related discriminators
16:24:35 [AlexKozlenkov]: hassan: I started with types but it should be possible for all discriminators
16:24:45 [AxelPolleres]: we have to formalize which answers exclude each other and then find an oprimally ordered BDD :-) then we have the ontology! :-)))
16:25:05 [sandro]: sandro: does it make sense to do this in OWL now, or soon? is it obvious to anyone how to do that?
16:25:26 [FrankMcCabe]: That would be an interesting test case for OWL
16:25:39 [csma]: action: record questionnaire answers for JBoss and XUL in an email (action 89) [CONTINUED]
16:27:04 [csma]: action: sync questionaire questions back to RAF wiki page (action 90) [DONE]
16:27:42 [csma]: action: include Paula's questions to questionnaire (action 91) [CONTINUED]
16:28:06 [Zakim]: -Harold
16:28:09 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: action review is completed
16:28:38 [ChrisW]: q?
16:28:39 [AlexKozlenkov]: chris: next week start talking about technical design
16:28:42 [sandro]: +1 adjourn
16:28:42 [csma]: +1
16:28:46 [Zakim]: -GaryHallmark
16:28:47 [Zakim]: -pfps
16:28:48 [Zakim]: -Mala_Mehrotra
16:28:48 [PaulaP]: bye
16:28:49 [AlexKozlenkov]: adjourn now
16:28:52 [Zakim]: -Deborah_Nichols
16:28:54 [Zakim]: -PaulaP
16:28:55 [Zakim]: -DaveReynolds
16:28:56 [Zakim]: -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:28:57 [Zakim]: -FrankMcCabe
16:28:58 [JeffP]: bye
16:28:59 [Zakim]: -Sandro
16:29:00 [Zakim]: -Allen_Ginsberg
16:29:02 [Zakim]: -JeffP
16:29:03 [Zakim]: -Axel_Polleres
16:29:05 [Zakim]: -johnhall
16:29:06 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:29:06 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/29-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:29:07 [Zakim]: -Donald_Chapin
16:29:10 [Zakim]: -MichaelKifer
16:29:35 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make minutes public
16:29:35 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', ChrisW. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:29:43 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make record public
16:30:08 [ChrisW]: sandro!!!
16:30:15 [ChrisW]: never mind
16:30:19 [ChrisW]: sandro, never mind
16:30:53 [Zakim]: -AlexKozlenkov
16:36:57 [Zakim]: -[IBM]
16:36:58 [Zakim]: -csma
16:36:59 [Zakim]: SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:37:01 [Zakim]: Attendees were Hassan_Ait-Kaci, FrankMcCabe, Sandro, PaulaP, Deborah_Nichols, csma, AlexKozlenkov, Donald_Chapin, [IBM], Axel_Polleres, pfps, Dave_Reynolds, Harold, Allen_Ginsberg,
16:37:03 [Zakim]: ... johnhall, JeffP, MoZ, +1.503.317.aaaa, GaryHallmark, Mala_Mehrotra, DaveReynolds, MichaelKifer
16:37:32 [csma]: csma has left #rif
18:35:30 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #rif